• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Polygon/Verge writer says Naughty Dog staff said inappropriate things to her (quote)

HotHamBoy

Member
I feel like every company everywhere, no matter what their public image, has at least some awful people working for them. It's just a matter of numbers.

It's kind of shitty when one of these awful persons drags the company's name through the mud. Then all of a sudden Naughty Dog is full of scumbags.

I dunno, maybe they are. But it seems like people become guilty by association.

I guess the important thing is how a company responds to these things but what are they going to say in a case like this? Just the usual bullshit "we do not condone" statement.

That's fucked up. But it seems like not enough journalists care about reporting these incidents, which is a shame.

They care, but they value their careers. They've probably worked pretty hard to get them, especially the women.

The sad thing is women deal with this shit constantly in any situation. Getting one random asshole probably isn't worth the blowback.
 

labaronx

Member
Are they, though? Why not call them out by name like they're doing in the music, movie and tv bussines?

Proof or lack thereof...

Kesha accused her producer of rape, several industry people said he was a creep, judge threw out rape case nobody else came forward with a rape allegation he couldve countersued her and sony for slander

Naming is difficult but it does force Naughty Dog to better manage their 600 people
 

1upsuper

Member
Please do not punish naughty dog's incredibly talented staff because of the actions of the sexual harassser. People are there working hard on TLOU II and it would be awful if people refused the buy the game because of one or two bad apples there. That just punishes all the good people there

The actions of the few reflect on the many. That's how companies work, and that's why maintaining good PR is such a big deal. The fact that ND makes popular games does not preclude them from criticism. The ball is in their court -- if they don't do anything about these serious allegations, people will be totally justified to pass on their products. IMO they'd be justified already. However, I think you are overestimating how much this could affect sales. Unfortunately, I don't think a ton of people would give a shit, given how this industry is right now, coupled with the fact that people are obsessed with their games.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Inb4 another PR statement saying "nothing happened,everything is fine".
I did no tlike the statement, because they should have asked the person who made the allegations directly - otherwise not finding anything is not surprising at all, why would there be any record of this. But to my understanding this is not exactly what they said, just that they did not find any proof for this. What Sony should really do, is to ask both victims, who they are talking about and investigate this using this information.

Are they, though? Why not call them out by name like they're doing in the music, movie and tv bussines?
Well, the difference is that these are, for all the victims seem to know, isolated cases. In the movie business, what you see is people starting to make their calls when they observe that there are numerous victims. This gives your own story more strength, because it is not just one person calling out, another denying, but it is several people against one. The Weinstein thing was seemingly well-known in the industry to be a problem with many victims. Even then it took very long until it was openly discussed.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Are they, though? Why not call them out by name like they're doing in the music, movie and tv bussines?

The number of harassers you're hearing about in music/movie/TV are an almost inconsequential percentage of how poisoned those wells actually are. Weinstein is a big name, and clearly a powerful figure to have "gotten away with it" for so long. But there are countless other people in those industries that, even without as big of a position, pull the same kind of horrific shit daily.

Nothing is being "fixed" in Hollywood, as those practices are still so ingrained. And the only reason you're hearing about it at all is because it involves names you've heard about. The same goes here. Name the harasser here or not, there are countless more in this industry that are just as fucking skeezy.
 
Foxxsoxx - There are a few posters that post of GAF who feel Sony should restructure their assets to remove the leadership that has built an environment of apparent systemic sexual harrassment. Let's close down GAF

Logic - There are posters who have been personally affected by sexual harrassment or assault who feel very strongly about it, and strongly about an institution that would knowingly turn a blind eye to it. To them, this many professionals coming forward validates the claims. Even if a handful of those claims are false, just one claim being true and brushed off is enough reason to question the leadership there. That's the purpose of a message board, to have these discussions and to have your voice heard in some small way.

Foxxsoxx - Everyone who has a different opinion is wrong, shut it down so I don't have to see it


:

FTFY
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Do you feel this is fair towards the staff? We have two incidents called out right now in terms of indecent behaviour, granted, likely by two different individuals (one was male-to-male, one was male-to-female, so since bisexuality is rare, I deem it likely these are two separate people). Considering ND's team size it is not really shocking that there are two people like this among the team. Of course, extreme overworking as part of Naughty Dog's structure (as evident by Hennig's statement) may foster such behaviour even in people who wouldn't behave like this normally (lowering self-control through extreme stress), but so far we have no indication that Naughty Dog is particularly bad in terms of sexual harassment. Of course, this does not excuse those two people's behaviour.
I think most people in general would just like to see ND resolve the situations appropriately and establish publicly that such behavior is unacceptable in their working culture.
 

labaronx

Member
But how many people in HR does that really come down to?

It seems like an impossible task to keep that large of a staff free of shitheads.

You cant keep an employee free of shitheads, no matter how hard u try. People are finding out they work with Nazis in this country
 

MTC100

Banned
What's the reference, she met the guy on some street or what? Why wouldn't he know that she's a reporter. Is he talking like that to any girl he meets?! Also what was the reason for his outburst?
 

labaronx

Member
What's the reference, she met the guy on some street or what? Why wouldn't he know that she's a reporter. Is he talking like that to any girl he meets?! Also what was the reason for his outburst?

Doesn't matter if she was meeting him as a reporter, his actions were insulting and unprofessional
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I think most people in general would just like to see ND resolve the situations appropriately and establish publicly that such behavior is unacceptable in their working culture.

Well, I agree then, I just found this statement dismissive towards the rest of the huge team in an unfair way.
 

MTC100

Banned
Doesn't matter if she was meeting him as a reporter, his actions were insulting and unprofessional

It does, I like to see the whole picture, it would be interesting to see the whole picture and how it came to him saying that stuff. Haven't come around to watching house of cards either, is she starring in that or looking like an actor there?

Not knowing the circumstances doesn't make his quote less despicable of course. I'm curious still.
Edit: misread the quote he said that AFTER she told him she was a reporter, Omg...
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am concerned by this event, but also that we expect a higher standard from game developers than elected officials in highest places of power in the U.S. or so these kind of threads make it seem. It reminds me of that debate where John Stewart was question on why The Daily Show was not tougher and had more investigative journalistic integrity with politician interviews by CNN news hosts or something...
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Doesn't matter if she was meeting him as a reporter, his actions were insulting and unprofessional
I think it actually makes it worse if he met her in a professional environment (so in her role as a reporter and his role of a developer), because this would indicate more strongly she was not just insulting her but also asked her about sexual favours for him in exchange for information, which would additionally be an abuse of his work position and not just general asshole-behaviour. Sadly, from the description I am quite certain that this actually is about a professional meeting and not one by chance (in fact, why would he even know she's a video games reporter if he just randomly met her on a street?).
 

Cipherr

Member
I am concerned by his event, but also that we expect a higher standard from game developers than elected officials in highest places of power in the U.S. or so these kind of threads make it seem.

Huh? I mean I can only assume you mean Trump? If so, no, the standards are the same for him too. I didn't vote for that buffoon after the gross shit that came to light about him. And I imagine that people that voted for him are the types making excuses for this stuff left and right.

But no, the standard has always been the same for everyone. Be a decent person. Jesus, this isn't difficult.
 

labaronx

Member
They're gonna have to do a lot worse before people stop buying games from their darling developer.

For me yeah its two developers

Ben Affleck has been accussed of being a serial gropper. Should i not see justice league because 1 of 6 people messed up. Henry cavill and erza miller haven't been accused of anything.... so why should they suffer
 

autoduelist

Member
It does, I like to see the whole picture, it would be interesting to see the whole picture and how it came to him saying that stuff. Haven't come around to watching house of cards either, is she starring in that or looking like an actor there?

Not knowing the circumstances doesn't make his quote less despicable of course. I'm curious still.
Edit: misread the quote he said that AFTER she told him she was a reporter, Omg...

In HoC, a young reporter enters a sexual relationship with a politician that is [initially] mutually beneficial to both of them. He feeds her stories so she can get ahead, etc. The politician's wife [who is also a politician] also gets involved with a young male author later, which is also [initially] mutually beneficial.

So it's possible a conversation about HoC [the latest episode, or whatever] may have snowballed into that awful statement. Plenty of coders are socially awkward to the point of self destruction. We don't know anything beyond that tweet, really... he could have been mortified he said it afterwards, or he could be a serial jackass.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Huh? I mean I can only assume you mean Trump? If so, no, the standards are the same for him too. I didn't vote for that buffoon after the gross shit that came to light about him. And I imagine that people that voted for him are the types making excuses for this stuff left and right.

But no, the standard has always been the same for everyone. Be a decent person. Jesus, this isn't difficult.
I hope his sexual comments were not the deciding factor for this, because even if he was behaving like an examplary being towards other people in direct conversation, his policies were long known to be super vile.
 

nightside

Member
Maybe I'm old fashioned or dunno, but usually when someone I don't know introduces to me I respond with a "nice to meet you" not with some shitty jokes -_-.
 

FingerBang

Member
Doesn't matter if she was meeting him as a reporter, his actions were insulting and unprofessional

It does if you want Naughty Dog to punish that guy and fire him. We agree it is shitty, but in the previous case, we had a guy being harassed while at work, so it totally concerns Naughty Dog.

If this guy was being a creep during his work hours than it concerns Naughty Dog. I doubt they can do anything legally if this guy was a creep being a creep during his free time.
 
Doesn't matter if she was meeting him as a reporter, his actions were insulting and unprofessional

Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?
 

NHale

Member
What the hell is happening at Naughty Dog

So is the company guilty of sexual harassment or are the individuals working for Naughty Dog guilty of sexual harassment?

Naughty Dog/Sony could be guilty of not having policies in place against sexual harassment or covering up for known cases of sexual harassment but anyone making individuals working for Naughty Dog = entire Naughty Dog should be ashamed of yourselves.

But let's not get that far, if you are really trying to imply individual actions working for a company = entire company, then you must be really feel guilty unless you are complete incoherent because a former NeoGAF mod was arrested for child porn, so for the same logic since you are part of NeoGAF as well it makes everyone doing this silly equivalence guilty as well. I hope you are satisfied.
 

labaronx

Member
It does if you want Naughty Dog to punish that guy and fire him. We agree it is shitty, but in the previous case, we had a guy being harassed while at work, so it totally concerns Naughty Dog.

If this guy was being a creep during his work hours than it concerns Naughty Dog. I doubt they can do anything legally if this guy was a creep being a creep during his free time.

I think i failed to put a comma in my initial reply. It should read "it doesnt matter, if she was meeting him as a reporter...

And the company can discipline you if you are hurting the brand during your free time ....ie nazi marches
 
Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?
WTF am I reading???
 

NHale

Member
And to add people must be really be blind before 2017, if you didn't realize this industry has a real problem with their views towards women. Most developers never complained about the women in bikinis on the show floor at E3 or even GDC parties for years until the media grew a slight backbone and started writing about it. Don't you think that attitude shows a real glimpse into the minds of the developers themselves? If you don't have a issue with having bikini girls on your booth promoting the new first person shooter based on WWII, then clearly you think it's normal. Then the parties are just another level of misogyny by this industry.

I'm glad people are finally waking up though and hope every developer around the industry that comitted any type of harassment are shaking their boots right now, afraid that the victims finally have the courage to call them out. It's time.

WTF am I reading???

Attempted victim blaming.
 

Protome

Member
Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?

You're right, it's the victim's fault. Silly of us to think otherwise really.

Also, what was she wearing when this happened?
 

MC Safety

Member
What's the reference, she met the guy on some street or what? Why wouldn't he know that she's a reporter. Is he talking like that to any girl he meets?! Also what was the reason for his outburst?

The setting is important, of course. Developers and journalists meet in a lot of settings that are social.

It's still a dumb thing to say to someone you've just met.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
But let's not get that far, if you are really trying to imply individual actions working for a company = entire company...

That is typically how it's perceived which is why companies generally take pains to vet comments to the public and are very careful to make sure employees working for the company understand that while acting in the company's capacity with the public they will be considered to be speaking for that company.

For example when meeting with the press, it's not an ideal time to say something personally insulting or wildly inappropriate to a reporter. That will reflect very poorly on the company.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
For me yeah its two developers

Ben Affleck has been accussed of being a serial gropper. Should i not see justice league because 1 of 6 people messed up. Henry cavill and erza miller haven't been accused of anything.... so why should they suffer

Cavill and Miller ain't suffering anything if you choose to not see Justice League.
 
WTF am I reading???

Attempted victim blaming.

You're right, it's the victim's fault. Silly of us to think otherwise really.

Also, what was she wearing when this happened?

Really?

Is being the mature one in the situation not an option or fighting fire with fire?

And the first question isn't trying to downplay anything, I want to know if it was this person's horrible conversation starter or his tone the whole time.
 

Drek

Member
What the hell is happening at Naughty Dog

The same thing that happens at literally every company of any real size in the entire U.S., and likely the entire world.

Only thing that has changed is now people are more willing to speak up, which leads to a dogpile effect on a company that makes them look like the exception when in reality they're the rule and you'll never know the companies that are the exception because no one will ever have a reason to call them out.

Hopefully we see this move away from twitter posts about something that happened in the past and turns into HR/management reports on things that just happened. Until it does it isn't something we'll see meaningful improvement on.
 
Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?

this.
 

True Fire

Member
Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?

Stop.
 
But let's not get that far, if you are really trying to imply individual actions working for a company = entire company, then you must be really feel guilty unless you are complete incoherent because a former NeoGAF mod was arrested for child porn, so for the same logic since you are part of NeoGAF as well it makes everyone doing this silly equivalence guilty as well. I hope you are satisfied.

Man, I bet you thought this comparison really made sense in your head.

Really?

Is being the mature one in the situation not an option or fighting fire with fire?

And the first question isn't trying to downplay anything, I want to know if it was this person's horrible conversation starter or his tone the whole time.

There's no nuance here. You are quite literally victim blaming.
 

KOHIPEET

Member

Ah for fuck's sake. Some people are good some or bad. If some people tell you inappropriate things, name them. Stop calling them "Naughty dog dev". I can't take accusations like this seriously when they blame an entire studio for what probably only a handful of people did.

Harrasment and sexsual assault are both very serious crimes and such, it's a responsibility for the authorities to investigate and punish accordingly. But tweeting about it - for me at least- feels more like attention seeking.
 
For me yeah its two developers

Ben Affleck has been accussed of being a serial gropper. Should i not see justice league because 1 of 6 people messed up. Henry cavill and erza miller haven't been accused of anything.... so why should they suffer
You should be a normal human and make your own decision. Like the rest of us.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?

She did, and right after, the laugh track had the audience go "OooooOOOOOO" and then everybody applauded, and the credits rolled. Up next, a new episode of Young Sheldon.


Does this sound like a fucking sitcom to you?
 
Was this just at the start of the meeting or did it continue the whole way through? Was she a professional and just moved on or ignored it? Did she make a witty comeback?

And if she did get seriously insulted, did she make a formal complaint to the person's superior or the company? Is legal action on the way?

Is there any proof?

Fucking hell.....
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Stop what? Asking relevent questions?

Stop victim blaming.

Why the fuck does any of that matter?

So if he just did it at the beginning it was okay?

So if she made a witty comeback that means she was cool with it?

If women made complaints and legal actions for every harasser they would be living at the court house. They'd probably end up suing the bailiff while they were there.
 

NHale

Member
Stop victim blaming.

Why the fuck does any of that matter?

So if he just did it at the beginning it was okay?

So if she made a witty comeback that means she was cool with it?

"That would prove that maybe she enjoyed the comment after all!"

People don't even realize what they are doing (at least I hope) and that's how deep the culture of victim blaming actually is.
 
Top Bottom