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[Dunki]

WASHINGTON — President Trump plans to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move the American Embassy there, upending nearly seven decades of American foreign policy and potentially destroying his efforts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

Mr. Trump's decision, a high-risk foray into the thicket of the Middle East, was driven not by diplomatic calculations but by a campaign promise. He appealed to evangelicals and ardently pro-Israel American Jews in 2016 by vowing to move the embassy, and advisers said on Tuesday he was determined to make good on his word.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/world/middleeast/american-embassy-israel-trump-move.html

So yeah this could heat up the tension in the middle east to a new wave of terror and violence. HAMAS already said they are going to fight with everything they have. Turkey or Erdogan also said that this is a red line US better should not cross.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[catmincer]

Trump is an idiot.

 

[chromhound]

Smh...

 

[Rekwest]

Why? Trump Why?

 

[Taker666]

Trump is an idiot.

True...and I hate to say it but ......"both sides" ..

Chuck Schumer says he advised Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's 'undivided' capital.


Schumer himself told JTA that he supported the U.S. moving its embassy to Jerusalem, and criticized Trump over his "indecisiveness" on the issue.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/363465-schumer-advised-trump-on-declaring-jerusalem-as-israels-capital

Crazed lunatics.

 

[Nikodemos]

[quadruple facepalm]

 

[Android Kuma]

This is unnecessarily riling up the Middle East. And for what exactly?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

This is unnecessarily riling up the Middle East. And for what exactly?

You kind of answered your question. To poke brown people in the eye and to further ingratiate himself to evangelicals.

 

[Dunki]

This is unnecessarily riling up the Middle East. And for what exactly?

To go against the Islam. Trump is also pro Jewish and I am pretty sure he wanted to set a statement .

 

[MisterFalcon]

Looking at the last few years in the Middle East, an embassy moving should be pretty low on the list of things to lose your shit over.

 

[AlteredForms]

To go against the Islam. Trump is also pro Jewish and I am pretty sure he wanted to set a statement .

Pretty much.

 

[Damerman]

The rest of the world needs to stick to the right side, just like they have on the other issues trump insists to be wrong on.

 

[llien]

Why? Trump Why?

He promised that.
It's about votes, I guess.

 

[llien]

Administration officials said he would simply be acknowledging reality - that Jerusalem functions as Israel's capital. They said the decision would not determine final status issues such as boundaries and sovereignty - that is still left to negotiations.

BBC

 

[LordOfChaos]

This is the red line for a lot of Muslims. If this goes through, there will be violence, guaranteed.

 

[Dunki]

BBC

Honestly I think it is the right decision however it is not a decision for peace.

This is the red line for a lot of Muslims. If this goes through, there will be violence, guaranteed.

Of course it is because Muslims hate jewish people. But should this be our argument for such a decision? So that Muslims can be at ease?

 

[Android Kuma]

Honestly I think it is the right decision however it is not a decision for peace.



Of course it is because Muslims hate jewish people. But should this be our argument for such a decision? So that Muslims can be at ease?

And Zionists hate Muslims, your point? I'd say Muslims have a greater moral justification to hate the Israelis for continuing the building of settlements and taking land from the Palestinians. Hell, the current Israeli government is against a 2 state solution. And if this isn't a decision for peace, there is nothing "right" about this decision.

 

[HStallion]

Honestly I think it is the right decision however it is not a decision for peace.



Of course it is because Muslims hate jewish people. But should this be our argument for such a decision? So that Muslims can be at ease?

Do you purposefully poke a hornets nest despite everyone telling you not to just because the guy before you wouldn't?

 

[Dunki]

And Zionists hate Muslims, your point? I'd say Muslims have a greater moral justification to hate the Israelis for continuing the building of settlements and taking land from the Palestinians. Hell, the current Israeli government is against a 2 state solution. And if this isn't a decision for peace, there is nothing "right" about this decision.

I disagree. Jewish people always were seeking after a place they belong they were hunted though out history. This is something they can call home.. And sometimes you have to fight for the right thing. You can not ignore this problem because it would upset other people. And if this upsets something like the HAMAS? So what? I thought we learned tou never negotiate with Terrorists or someone like Erdogan..

We can not spoil Muslims because they can have violent reactions to something they do not like. As an Example: Charlie Hebdo massacre. I rather want to fight the radical Islam so that actual followers of the Islam don't get stigmatized anymore, they do as they want.

Do you purposefully poke a hornets nest despite everyone telling you not to just because the guy before you wouldn't?

If this means doing the right thing yes. Sometimes you have to fight for something. How can you accept wrongdoings just because the people who would murder other people will not be triggered by it?

 

[HStallion]

If this means doing the right thing yes. Sometimes you have to fight for something. How can you accept wrongdoings just because the people who would murder other people will not be triggered by it?

What consists of doing the right thing when this movie will cause a lot of unneeded turmoil that could easily lead to violence and things getting worse for an entire region. You can't play the "doing the right thing" card when everyone is telling you this is the wrong thing to do.

 

[Android Kuma]

I disagree. Jewish people always were seeking after a place they belong they were hunted though out history. This is something they can call home.. And sometimes you have to fight for the right thing. You can not ignore this problem because it would upset other people. And if this upsets something like the HAMAS? So what? I thought we learned tou never negotiate with Terrorists or someone like Erdogan..

We can not spoil Muslims because they can have violent reactions to something they do not like. As an Example: Charlie Hebdo massacre. I rather want to fight the radical Islam so that actual followers of the Islam don't get stigmatized anymore, they do as they want.

Lol and that's an excuse to terrorize others? I don't care if they were looking for the one true place to call home, they stole the homes of others.

It doesn't just upset Hamas. It upsets anyone that understands this acknowledgement by the USA as a tacit approval for Israeli's building of settlements across Palestinian land.

Muslims are the spoiled ones? How about the joke of a President that is trying to do something so unnecessary but so damaging to diplomacy and peace relations. The clear difference between Charlie Hebdo and this, is that the symbol and ownership of Jerusalem is not clear cut and clearly affects how Israel will build in the future. This is not a response to an offensive drawing but a response to something much bigger.

 

[Dunki]

What consists of doing the right thing when this movie will cause a lot of unneeded turmoil that could easily lead to violence and things getting worse for an entire region. You can't play the "doing the right thing" card when everyone is telling you this is the wrong thing to do.

Everyone? I do not think its everyone? Everyone tells you it is dangerous like Germany but they would not tell even Trump it is morally wrong. Again if this upsets terrorist should we really listen to these people? If this upsets someone like Erdogan who is in my opinion the next modern Hitler and who wants to reinstate a caliphate in the long run?

Again I am German so I am def. Prow jewish people here. So yes I maybe biased as well. I just do not like the act of terrorism and that is what the HAMAS is.

 

[Android Kuma]

Everyone? I do not think its everyone? Everyone tells you it is dangerous like Germany but they would not tell even Trump it is morally wrong. Again if this upsets terrorist should we really listen to these people? If this upsets someone like Erdogan who is in my opinion the next modern Hitler and who wants to reinstate a caliphate in the long run?

Again I am German so I am def. Prow jewish people here. So yes I maybe biased as well. I just do not like the act of terrorism and that is what the HAMAS is.

You do realize a caliphate is pretty much the Church and Pope in Catholicism, right? It would actually put some order to Islam if you can't have extremists making their own rulings and disobeying a central entity. One of the biggest reasons why Islam has so many extremists is because you can find/cherry pick the rules through different interpretations. It's a decentralized system that is hard to correct. Now if you have a central entity you can negate this problem. It's actually kinda insane to believe, but it's probably the best way to unify Islam against Radical Islam.

 

[Militant17]

Of course Trump was going to do this, the nut job christian fundamentalists that exist in the republican party and in America itself have been aiding Israel since the state was formally established and even prior to that. They've been waiting until the political climate had changed enough to make these changes without pissing off most of the world, unfortunately Trump is stupid enough to do this without fear of the repercussions. Remember the Christians believe once the Jews return to the holy land that the second coming of Christ will soon follow, that's why thousands of Americans travel there every year to help build and work the lands in Israel. It's fucking crazy.

 

[Dunki]

You do realize a caliphate is pretty much the Church and Pope in Catholicism, right? It would actually put some order to Islam if you can't have extremists making their own rulings and disobeying a central entity. One of the biggest reasons why Islam has so many extremists is because you can find/cherry pick the rules through different interpretations. It's a decentralized system that is hard to correct. Now if you have a central entity you can negate this problem. It's actually kinda insane to believe, but it's probably the best way to unify Islam against Radical Islam.

a Caliphate done by an insane man who just abolished public LBGT parades and protest as well as removing evolution from class rooms is not a good way for peace or stability. I also would not love if the pope would be Hitler. HE is the radical Islam.

No just no.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

This is the red line for a lot of Muslims. If this goes through, there will be violence, guaranteed.

Isn’t that sad? Like think about how sad that is. So we appease people or they’ll be violent?

 

[HStallion]

Everyone? I do not think its everyone? Everyone tells you it is dangerous like Germany but they would not tell even Trump it is morally wrong. Again if this upsets terrorist should we really listen to these people? If this upsets someone like Erdogan who is in my opinion the next modern Hitler and who wants to reinstate a caliphate in the long run?

Again I am German so I am def. Prow jewish people here. So yes I maybe biased as well. I just do not like the act of terrorism and that is what the HAMAS is.

You realize everyone from the country of Canada to the Pope has come out against this move, right? This is not some small scale action that will only be felt by the Israeli's and Palestinians. This could cause serious turmoil across the Middle East and the wider Muslim world and for what? Because Trump needs to get himself a win?

So let me again ask, do you pour gas on an already burning fire because that's all this will do.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Isn’t that sad? Like think about how sad that is. So we appease people or they’ll be violent?

Reality is sad. The president irl button mashing is no help.

 

[Dunki]

You realize everyone from the country of Canada to the Pope has come out against this move, right? This is not some small scale action that will only be felt by the Israeli's and Palestinians. This could cause serious turmoil across the Middle East and the wider Muslim world and for what? Because Trump needs to get himself a win?

So let me again ask, do you pour gas on an already burning fire because that's all this will do.

The reasoning for it however does not sit right with me. It is basically your argument not to poke in a hornets nest and not that it is morally wrong. I just do not like this logic when it is wrong in my opinion. If I have a hornet nest I will eliminate it.

 

[HStallion]

The reasoning for it however does not sit right with me. It is basically your argument not to poke in a hornets nest and not that it is morally wrong. I just do not like this logic when it is wrong in my opinion. If I have a hornet nest I will eliminate it.

So make things worse for a whole lot of people because your moral compass is offended? Yeah that sounds very well thought out.

 

[Dunki]

So make things worse for a whole lot of people because your moral compass is offended? Yeah that sounds very well thought out.

Sometimes it has to become worse for it to become better. I am sorry but I do not think we should just do everything so Muslims wont get angry since they tend to murder tons of people. Muslims should not have a free pass they should be on the same field as everyone else.

Also thats probably the reason why I am not a politician. It is a political mistake? Yeah I think so. It is a morally wrong decision? No I do not think so.

 

[HStallion]

Sometimes it has to become worse for it to become better. I am sorry but I do not think we should just do everything so Muslims wont get angry since they tend to murder tons of people. Muslims should not have a free pass they should be on the same field as everyone else.

Also thats probably the reason why I am not a politician. It is a political mistake? Yeah I think so. It is a morally wrong decision? No I do not think so.

So its not morally wrong to start up a conflict that could lead to all manner of blood shed and turmoil just because you're morally offended?

 

[Usobuko]

Sometimes it has to become worse for it to become better. I am sorry but I do not think we should just do everything so Muslims wont get angry since they tend to murder tons of people. Muslims should not have a free pass they should be on the same field as everyone else.

Also thats probably the reason why I am not a politician. It is a political mistake? Yeah I think so. It is a morally wrong decision? No I do not think so.

The only group that has a free past of atrocities in the world of the recent history are western nations lead by white people.

Get this straight in your mind first.

I'm not here to contest whether your decision is moral or not but at the end of the day people like you antagonize 1b+ Muslims with your xenophobic drivel and by the numbers they have they will fight back. Good luck dealing with the repercussions. Is it morally wrong if the extremists punch out with utter disregard of morals / laws set by western humanity in western society? Probably not according to their morals.

This is how you sound to them.

You're not even winning the war among white people yourself in Europe at least.

The more connected the world is, the more light it shown on people of you kind with arbitrary flip-flopping morals that serve your prerogative.

At the end of the day, we are all nothing more but life forms residing on earth. If you poke the hornets nest, prepare to get sting.

Realize your kind has no alliance from every other groups residing in this world, your numbers are going down and rising powers will follow your footsteps to dictate the future.

The funny part is you and your kind probably believe you're doing a good deed. Being that insular is a disease and fret not, there are plenty of similarly illed people in your society.


mod edit: Refrain from using such rhetoric to make your points. Also stop using inflammatory generalisations like 'your kind' - take note or you'll be given some time away to reflect on your articulation

 

[Dunki]

The only group that has a free past of atrocities in the world of the recent history are western nations lead by white people.

Get this straight in your mind first.

I'm not here to contest whether your decision is moral or not but at the end of the day people like you antagonize 1b+ Muslims with your xenophobic drivel and by the numbers they have they will fight back. Good luck dealing with the repercussions.

You're not even winning the war among white people yourself in Europe at least.

The more connected the world is, the more light it shown on people of you kind with arbiter morals that serve your prerogative.

At the end of the day, we are all nothing more but life forms residing on earth. If you poke the hornets nest, prepare to get sting.

Realize your kind has alliance from every other groups residing in this world, your numbers are going down and rising powers will follow your footsteps to dictate the future.

It will be a slow agonizing death and quite frankly you deserve it.

1. Muslims are probably Number 1 at oppressing others through out history. Let us not forget this. I am sorry I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse in this regard but Muslims did not better and most importantly they are doing it today like they did before.

2. What kind of War in Europe? The only war we have to fight against is the rise of the rightwing groups. And the Solution for this is A. Better politicians who actually listen to the people and B. stricter and better Immigration laws like Canada has.

And Lastly: I think we also need to show the radical Islam that we do not let them do as they please. We do not give in when they try to reach their goals with violence. But again this is probably why I will never want to be politician since politicians also have to li very often to not upset others. I could not live like that.

Also people like me? Who are these people? Please tell me. I have not defended many of Trumps decision. Like the tax reform as an example. But on this one I agree as a person not politician

 

[HStallion]

1. Muslims are probably Number 1 at oppressing other through out history. Let us not forget this. I am sorry I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse in this regard but Muslims did not better and most importantly they are doing it today like they did before.

I want some back up evidence on this and not from some white wing rag.

 

[Dunki]

I want some back up evidence on this and not from some white wing rag.

For today or History? Seriously you do not want the history one right? Sicne this is well known I hope.

For today: Again Germany as an Example. But honestly its pretty tough to find non german sources for it.

[URL="http://https://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/islamists-target-christian-converts-in-german-refugee-centers"]sts-target-christian-converts-in-german-refugee-centers
[/URL]
If I would explain it in my words. ehre are more and more cases in which christian refugees get threaten and even assaulted for being christian be muslim refugees. It went so far that they did not get access to the kitchen and bathrooms. Our Gov. even argued about separating Christians and Muslim refugees. And this come from people who are actually were fleeing from ISIS. This year alone over 800 known attacks on christian refugees in these shelters.

But if I can quote Wiki

According to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, Christians are the most persecuted group in the contemporary world. The Holy See has reported that over 100,000 Christians are violently killed annually because of some relation to their faith.According to the World Evangelical Alliance, over 200 million Christians are denied fundamental human rights solely because of their faith.[Of the 100-200 million Christians under assault, the majority are persecuted in Muslim-dominated nations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

So yeah. Again you can argue who is/was the worst but you can not really argue that they are very close with the biggest difference that it happens why too much in Muslim countries.

In General Religion is bad since it only lead to war and conflicts. If you look at the Map showing conflict almost all of them are because of Religion.

 

[HStallion]

For today or History? Seriously you do not want the history one right? Sicne this is well known I hope.

For today: Again Germany as an Example. But honestly its pretty tough to find non german sources for it.

[URL="http://https://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/islamists-target-christian-converts-in-german-refugee-centers"]sts-target-christian-converts-in-german-refugee-centers
[/URL]
If I would explain it in my words. ehre are more and more cases in which christian refugees get threaten and even assaulted for being christian be muslim refugees. It went so far that they did not get access to the kitchen and bathrooms. Our Gov. even argued about separating Christians and Muslim refugees. And this come from people who are actually were fleeing from ISIS. This year alone over 800 known attacks on christian refugees in these shelters.

But if I can quote Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

So yeah. Again you can argue who is/was the worst but you can not really argue that they are very close with the biggest difference that it happens why too much in Muslim countries.

In General Religion is bad since it only lead to war and conflicts. If you look at the Map showing conflict almost all of them are because of Religion.

You said that Muslims were the #1 oppressors through out history and none of your links back up such a bold claim.

 

[Resident_UA]

1. Muslims are probably Number 1 at oppressing others through out history. Let us not forget this. I am sorry I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse in this regard but Muslims did not better and most importantly they are doing it today like they did before.

Dude, read like Wikipedia post or something. There are few fun articles on Crusades. I also heard that China was fun. How ignorant can you be?

 

[Dunki]

You said that Muslims were the #1 oppressors through out history and none of your links back up such a bold claim.

I also said you can argue about this who was the top oppressor through out history They are N.1 now which my quote also said. They are not like African Americans as an example.

According to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, Christians are the most persecuted group in the contemporary world

So yes you can argue that this is also biased but it still stands.

 

[Mister Apoc]

Dude, read like Wikipedia post or something. There are few fun articles on Crusades. I also heard that China was fun. How ignorant can you be?

you mean the crusades that were launched in response to centuries of Muslim aggression in the holy land and in Europe

I am not a defender of the crusades by no means, but the simplistic picture of painting christians as bad and muslims as victims in these wars is historically inaccurate

 

[Dunki]

Dude, read like Wikipedia post or something. There are few fun articles on Crusades. I also heard that China was fun. How ignorant can you be?

Read about the Ottoman Empire as one example Read about how Mohammed razed many cities because of Religion and so one. Muslims are not victims Islam is not a victim.

 

[HStallion]

I also said you can argue about this who was the top oppressor through out history They are N.1 now which my quote also said. They are not like African Americans as an example.



So yes you can argue that this is also biased but it still stands.

Again back this up with some relevant links and facts. I'm not even sure why your bringing up African Americans. Are you implying African Americans are oppressors in some fashion?

Read about the Ottoman Empire as one example Read about how Mohammed razed many cities because of Religion and so one. Muslims are not victims Islam is not a victim.

You just said they're the number one oppressors apparently past and present, not that they're the victims. Let's also not forget about all those other non Muslim empires that did all kinds of terrible shit.

 

[Moneal]

Again back this up with some relevant links and facts. I'm not even sure why your bringing up African Americans. Are you implying African Americans are oppressors in some fashion?

That is an easy post to read, dont know why you would read the african american part as meaning oppressors. They are saying islam and muslims aren't victims like african americans were. Guess you think anyone that isnt pro muslim is alt-right.

 

[Elwainen]

trumps playing with fire here. more stuff like this and he could end up starting a war.

 

[Dunki]

Again back this up with some relevant links and facts. I'm not even sure why your bringing up African Americans. Are you implying African Americans are oppressors in some fashion?



You just said they're the number one oppressors apparently past and present, not that they're the victims. Let's also not forget about all those other non Muslim empires that did all kinds of terrible shit.

No I said hey are not vctims like african american people were. And I gave you a wiki link which has sources in there as well. Stuff like this.

Christians: The world's most persecuted people

Vatican to UN: 100 thousand Christians killed for the faith each year


37 MUSLIM NATIONS PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS

Also there is a huge difference here they did it in the name of Religion just like Christians did with their crusades.

Seriously if you actually accuse Christianity of these terrible events you surely should do the same with Muslims and this is the case even today. Please explain how chrstianity back than is worse tha Islam back then and even today?

Just because they were white people?

 

[Resident_UA]

you mean the crusades that were launched in response to centuries of Muslim aggression in the holy land and in Europe

I am not a defender of the crusades by no means, but the simplistic picture of painting christians as bad and muslims as victims in these wars is historically inaccurate

Read about the Ottoman Empire as one example Read about how Mohammed razed many cities because of Religion and so one. Muslims are not victims Islam is not a victim.

It's kind of telling that your reply is about something completely unrelated to what I was objecting. The premise is wrong. Those are just examples. If you read just a bit of history you would know that.

 

[oliander]

Fun. The only reaction to this that really matters is Saudi Arabia, so it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

 

[Dunki]

It's kind of telling that your reply is about something completely unrelated to what I was objecting. The premise is wrong. Those are just examples. If you read just a bit of history you would know that.

When did I ever ignore the Chistans crusades? I just said they were on the same level in Islam and what makes it even worse for me it that it is still happening today. While Christianity had HUGE reforms

 

[Resident_UA]

When did I ever ignore the Chistans crusades? I just said they were on the same level in Islam and what makes it even worse for me it that it is still happening today. While Christianity had HUGE reforms

You ignored China, and there are many more. Like Slavery in the US, Colonization, the list just goes on. Wikipedia is your friend.

Just a reminder, this is your shitty statement that shows your true colors:

1. Muslims are probably Number 1 at oppressing others through out history. Let us not forget this. I am sorry I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse in this regard but Muslims did not better and most importantly they are doing it today like they did before.

 

[Dunki]

You ignored China, and there are many more. Like Slavery in the US, Colonization, the list just goes on. Wikipedia is your friend.

Just a reminder, this is your shitty statement that shows your true colors:

I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse

AGain it is debatable but pretending Muslims are innocent while accusing christianity is just ridiculous.

And do not make me laugh. China is shitty yes but only Christans and Muslims did fought brutal wars and crusades in the name of Religion. Also if you believe Slaver in Muslim countries did not exist I just think you need to look this up. It still exsits today. Just now there was a huge case in Lybia and African slaves being sold of. And now guess who it was?

And my true Colors would be. Religion is bad. Any form of Religion only led to war. Today almost every conflict is based on religion as well. So yes my true colors would abolish religion from earth and it would be a much much better place.