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[Vicetrailia]

For a little while I went to a school with armed guards and metal detectors. This was at a middle school. It sets a bad tone and I don't think middleclass parents would go for it. Plus it's a hassle.

The safest way is to keep guns out of vulnerable people's hands. Prevention is what we need, and we shouldn't just wait until a dude shows up in a parking lot with a gun. That's the problem with security, even though it adds some deterrence.

And there is no "live with the consequences" of your school not having armed guards and detectors. The government would have to up its grants. That shit is expensive.

 

[MilkyJoe]

To be honest, the gun problem in this country is something that needs to be properly researched before we go about making safety laws. It’s easy to say things like “too many guns” or “mental health” but we need a proper understanding of the problem with good data to back it up.

I got you covered.

The problem - when everyone is armed people get killed, all the time

The data - everyday on the news.

You don't need guns, and that's all there is to it.

Every other civilised country manages it and you can too.

Hunters and farmers only, but only bolt action and double barrel, the rest can grow the fuck up.

 

[Ourobolus]

I honestly hope these kids can affect change. I'm a US vet, I've got an expert marksman badge - but I would be more than happy to turn in all of my weapons if it would begin a cascade of sorts. I know that's asking a lot, but hell -

1) yeah the 2nd Amd. helps protect us from those crazy military folk that want to overrun us. But wait a sec, I thought the GOP wanted us to fellate the military no matter what??

2) if you need an AR-15 to hunt, you're a shitty hunter. If I can get dinner for a few weeks with a Winchester, then you can solve the hunger crisis with an AR-15 (yes I know it stands for Armalite, not Assault Rifle)

3) I enjoy hunting with all sorts weapons. If I have to give up one of the various methods of killing animals in order for people to feel safe, then I all over it.


- in response to everyone who has fantasies of saving their families from harm - it all depends on your familiarity and comfort with the firearm. Wanting to protect your family with a shotgun you've never fired? Good luck. Even if you have experience, the combination of stress from a real-life scenario and your dreams of being a Rambo are a good way to get you and yours killed.

 

[llien]

Welp:

The second amendment is the leading contributor here.

But the amendment isn't specific about types of weapons that should be allowed, nor easiness of obtaining them, is it?

When I was in school (the 70's) we had bullies too but our parents encouraged us to stand up to them, to fight back to gain some respect. It worked most of the time because bullies tend to pick on those who don't resist. It occurs to me that if kids are punished greatly for fighting back then they won't fight back and they will wait until shit bubbles over and pick up a gun instead. It's simplistic but...well there it is.

Why would a kid bullied by a handful of ass holes go postal on innocent classmates instead of bullies?

 

[JordanN]

I've never heard this before, absolutely insane.

Columbine is often remembered as a shooting (which it was), but the shooters also had a ton of bombs ready they intended to either use on the school or as distractions.
https://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/dufflebags.htm

In some of Harris’ writing, investigators found references to the optimum times during the school day and the location to detonate the bombs in order to kill the greatest number of people. Those notes appear on pieces of scrap paper, on corners of his daybook, scribbly little notes written as he sat in the school cafeteria taking a count of the number of students in that location at a specific time. The bell announcing the end of class and the passing period for the next class period or “A” lunch rang at 11:10 a.m.

• At 11:10, Harris estimated 270 to 300 people in the cafeteria and makes a note of “heavy additions” and the “lines start.”​
• At 11:11, he counted about 300 to 350 people in the cafeteria,​
• At 11:12 to 11:13 between 350 and 450. He noted that at 11:14 to 11:15 there were over 500 students.​

Klebold’s last entry in his school notebook gave a chilling timeline for April 20. “Walk in, set bombs at 11:09 for 11:17. Leave….” The two apparently determined that 11:17 a.m. was the most opportune time to cause the most damage and deaths. The timers on the propane bombs were set for 11:17.
Sometime before 11:17, Harris and Klebold placed the two propane bombs in the cafeteria, and went back out to the student parking lots to their respective cars. The belief is that they then would shoot any surviving students who were able to escape the fireball. Bombs in their cars were set to explode after those in the cafeteria.

These were the items found inside their car.

 

[camelCase]

Contradictions are great.

They y

I got you covered.

The problem - when everyone is armed people get killed, all the time

The data - everyday on the news.

You don't need guns, and that's all there is to it.

Every other civilised country manages it and you can too.

Hunters and farmers only, but only bolt action and double barrel, the rest can grow the fuck up.

Thankfully you don't live with hunters

I got you covered.

The problem - when everyone is armed people get killed, all the time

The data - everyday on the news.

You don't need guns, and that's all there is to it.

Every other civilised country manages it and you can too.

Hunters and farmers only, but only bolt action and double barrel, the rest can grow the fuck up.

I bet you've never lived anywhere near the people for whom you claim to know what's best. It's easy to say that up on a high throne when your family hasn't had such a thing in its traditions for years or simply because you've never been around them and see no good reason to own a gun. The same thing could be said of video games whenever some LoL fiend carves up everyone in home room; that's the price we pay to have these freedoms frankly. You don't take away rights because a small # can't properly use them. You wouldn't take away free speech if heated debate lead to violence.

Taking away rights is not how you move a country forward no matter the death toll.

 

[bucyou]

I got you covered.

The problem - when everyone is armed people get killed, all the time

The data - everyday on the news.

You don't need guns, and that's all there is to it.

Every other civilised country manages it and you can too.

Hunters and farmers only, but only bolt action and double barrel, the rest can grow the fuck up.

Your condescending tone is nice and all, but you fail to address how you would resolve the issue? SWAT teams house by house to collect the guns?

 

[Vicetrailia]

Your condescending tone is nice and all, but you fail to address how you would resolve the issue? SWAT teams house by house to collect the guns?

I'm not a fan of banning guns, but first you make it illegal, and then you do buyback programs. You don't need to collect them all right away. Phase it out overtime.

 

[MilkyJoe]

They y


Thankfully you don't live with hunters


I bet you've never lived anywhere near the people for whom you claim to know what's best. It's easy to say that up on a high throne when your family hasn't had such a thing in its traditions for years or simply because you've never been around them and see no good reason to own a gun. The same thing could be said of video games whenever some LoL fiend carves up everyone in home room; that's the price we pay to have these freedoms frankly. You don't take away rights because a small # can't properly use them. You wouldn't take away free speech if heated debate lead to violence.

Taking away rights is not how you move a country forward no matter the death toll.

Rights?? Your rights to own a toy that kills people? Can you hear yourself? It doesn't matter what drivel you spout about amendments and rights and freedoms, to every non US resident reading you come across as a nutbar.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Your condescending tone is nice and all, but you fail to address how you would resolve the issue? SWAT teams house by house to collect the guns?

Close all the gun shops, ban the guns, and make people hand them in, you register your guns don't you? Illegal owned weapons you can have an amnesty. If you don't hand it in and you get caught it's off to jail with you, or you get shot trying to defend your freedoms and rights and amendments and man toys (cause that's all they are)

 

[SatansReverence]

(cause that's all they are)

They're actually tools for hunting and self defence but do go on with your reductive reasoning

 

[MilkyJoe]

They're actually tools for hunting and self defence but do go on with your reductive reasoning

IF the guns were gone you'd not need them for self defense, are you a nation of pussies? put your dukes up.

And I think the hunting portion doesn't apply to most of the population. And you certainly don't need ann AR15 for that.

I'll stick with them being toys for inadequate men. There's no argument, no matter how many smilies you use.

 

[SatansReverence]

IF the guns were gone you'd not need them for self defense, are you a nation of pussies? put your dukes up.

Because criminals can't get guns, or women can just all of a sudden not have to worry about being over powered and raped by a larger man.

And I think the hunting portion doesn't apply to most of the population. And you certainly don't need ann AR15 for that.

Most don't do it so no one should be allowed to!

Some of the places I've been bow hunting rabbit infestations, an AR 15 would be a brilliant weapon to use. Emus however need a more serious armament.

I'll stick with them being toys for inadequate men.

Oh I get it now...

There's no argument, no matter how many smilies(or simpsons memes) you use.

The irony is thick with this one.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Because criminals can't get guns, or women can just all of a sudden not have to worry about being over powered and raped by a larger man.

Again, every other civilized country manages it on both counts

Most don't do it so no one should be allowed to!

Read my original post that excludes rural hunting and farmers, with restrictions on firearms

Some of the places I've been bow hunting rabbit infestations, an AR 15 would be a brilliant weapon to use. Emus however need a more serious armament.

Learn to be a better hunter



Oh I get it now...

Still yjust toys you don't want someone to take away



The irony is thick with this one.

.

 

[SatansReverence]

.

What constitutes a "civilised" country in your book?

Implying that only rural people and farmers hunt.

Hmm, a compound bow that takes several seconds to draw, aim, fire and reset vs 100+ rabbits in sight *strokes chin*

10/10 non argument argument.

 

[MilkyJoe]

What constitutes a "civilised" country in your book?

Implying that only rural people and farmers hunt.

Hmm, a compound bow that takes several seconds to draw, aim, fire and reset vs 100+ rabbits in sight *strokes chin*

10/10 non argument argument.

A country that puts the lives of it's children ahead of it's obsession with owning guns. And we can add doesn't hunt for sport on top of that too. Which covers your other points.

 

[SatansReverence]

And we can add doesn't hunt for sport on top of that too. Which covers your other points.

When your argument comes down to garbage like "doesn't hunt for sport, everything else is invalid" you officially lose that argument.

1) Shooting itself can be sport i.e target and clay traps

2) The pathetic attempt to moral high ground hunting

3) Huntings primary goals are pest control and meat procurement

4) Even given that there is sport involved in the size of the kill. Example, number of pests exterminated. Measurements of trophies taken etc.

4b) inb4 your awful attempt at whining about hunting.

 

[MilkyJoe]

When your argument comes down to garbage like "doesn't hunt for sport, everything else is invalid" you officially lose that argument.

1) Shooting itself can be sport i.e target and clay traps

2) The pathetic attempt to moral high ground hunting

3) Huntings primary goals are pest control and meat procurement

4) Even given that there is sport involved in the size of the kill. Example, number of pests exterminated. Measurements of trophies taken etc.

4b) inb4 your awful attempt at whining about hunting.

When you keep making excuses for keeping the population armed so you can keep your toys.

sport shooting uses very different weapons

Only farmers and rural folk need pest control, what's your average city dweller need to hunt for?

you'll never have the moral high ground on hunting for sport, no matter if the animals are considered pests.

 

[SatansReverence]

you'll never have the moral high ground

I don't need the high ground against someone who hasn't got any ground to stand on.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I don't need the high ground against someone who hasn't got any ground to stand on.

You're who these kids are up against, makes you proud

 

[WaterAstro]

The problem with gun control is that the gun fanatics thinks it means their guns are being taken away, and they'll remain ignorant to any pro-gun control argument.

Canada has gun control, and a lot of people have guns. People even have high powered rifles here. People can keep their guns. They just need to register and be screened for mental health issue on a constant basis. Gun Control is meant to take the guns out of the mentally unstable. Unfortunately, America has a mentally unstable president who blames mental health without knowing that gun control is about mental health.

 

[LordRaptor]

Taking away rights is not how you move a country forward no matter the death toll.

I mean...
Men used to have the right to rape their wives because it wasn't rape if they were married, until they didn't have that right any more.
Factories had the right to dump toxic waste into peoples drinking water, until they didn't have that right any more.
Businesses had the right to use child labour, until they didn't have that right any more.
People had the right to duel someone to the death over a perceived insult, until they didn't have that right any more.
Police had the right to beat the shit out of someone in order to get a confession, until they didn't have that right any more.
Governments had the right to snatch someone in the middle of the night and just vanish them without any public trial or accusation, until they didn't have that right any more.
People used to have the right to own slaves and kill them at their discretion as they were just property, until they didn't have that right any more.
Drivers used to have the right to not bother with seatbelts meaning a much higher chance of fatality in an accident, until they didn't have that right any more.

Jump in at the point where taking away these rights stopped a country 'moving forward' or how the loss of these rights makes a country a worse place to live.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

You're who these kids are up against, makes you proud

Proud?

I was against many things as a teen. Guns, abortion, and even capitalism. I see things differently as a adult.

I don’t blame them for marching. I blame the adults. They should be throwing a fit about the inaction of the FBI. The blame belongs with the FBI.

Information is only good if it’s used. Gathering information and not using it does as much good as not gathering any.

Had he not be able to acquire a gun legally, he could have easily acquired one illegally. Many do. However had the FBI used the information he would have been stop. Legal gun or illegal gun.

Giving up your rights for protection will leave you unprotected.

I am actually for better, more detailed background checks. I support having to go to training. I agree with a registration list. But a ban on guns, no. Never.

 

[grumpyGamer]

I mean...
Men used to have the right to rape their wives because it wasn't rape if they were married, until they didn't have that right any more.
Factories had the right to dump toxic waste into peoples drinking water, until they didn't have that right any more.
Businesses had the right to use child labour, until they didn't have that right any more.
People had the right to duel someone to the death over a perceived insult, until they didn't have that right any more.
Police had the right to beat the shit out of someone in order to get a confession, until they didn't have that right any more.
Governments had the right to snatch someone in the middle of the night and just vanish them without any public trial or accusation, until they didn't have that right any more.
People used to have the right to own slaves and kill them at their discretion as they were just property, until they didn't have that right any more.
Drivers used to have the right to not bother with seatbelts meaning a much higher chance of fatality in an accident, until they didn't have that right any more.

Jump in at the point where taking away these rights stopped a country 'moving forward' or how the loss of these rights makes a country a worse place to live.

Agree with you, Your country needs gun law, so that stupid people can stop the killing, and sooner or later it will happen, the reason it did not happen yet is because there is a shit tonnnnnnn os money involved, and lets be honest they do not care about you or the people only obout money, besides your president is a complete fool

 

[Moneal]

I mean...
Men used to have the right to rape their wives because it wasn't rape if they were married, until they didn't have that right any more.
Factories had the right to dump toxic waste into peoples drinking water, until they didn't have that right any more.
Businesses had the right to use child labour, until they didn't have that right any more.
People had the right to duel someone to the death over a perceived insult, until they didn't have that right any more.
Police had the right to beat the shit out of someone in order to get a confession, until they didn't have that right any more.
Governments had the right to snatch someone in the middle of the night and just vanish them without any public trial or accusation, until they didn't have that right any more.
People used to have the right to own slaves and kill them at their discretion as they were just property, until they didn't have that right any more.
Drivers used to have the right to not bother with seatbelts meaning a much higher chance of fatality in an accident, until they didn't have that right any more.

Jump in at the point where taking away these rights stopped a country 'moving forward' or how the loss of these rights makes a country a worse place to live.

Really when were those rights defined by the constitution or any amendment to it? I am pretty sure there wasn't a government can't stop you from raping your wife clause. or factories or businesses can't be regulated clause. or government can't charge you with murder for dueling clause. or a police brutality clause. where were the things you mentioned rights. please point them out to me. just because they were not illegal does not mean they were rights.

As for slavery it is only mentioned once in the constitution, and isn't mentioned as a right or something the government can't take away, and in the amendments it is outlawed.

 

[rokkerkory]

Holy shit some of the fake news sites stating that some of the kids are paid actors SMH

What is this world coming to.

 

[David___]

Holy shit some of the fake news sites stating that some of the kids are paid actors SMH

What is this world coming to.

It's entirely predictable, which is the sad thing.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Holy shit some of the fake news sites stating that some of the kids are paid actors SMH

What is this world coming to.

The far-far right always does this every shooting.

 

[Tumle]

As someone outside looking in, it baffles me that this is a choice you'd like to make.

What do you mean?
Nothing screams “land of the free” like armed guards at a kindergarten..
It’s the high price you pay, for being the only country in the world with real freedom..
you know all the important freedom things like.. guns... and.. hate speech?

/s

 

[lefty1117]

Holy shit some of the fake news sites stating that some of the kids are paid actors SMH

What is this world coming to.

I've quit Facebook over this now, especially after the details of the Mueller indictment against the 13 Russians came out, and we learn again that Russian bots targeted Twitter and Facebook after the shootings. Zuckerberg needs to get his shit together.

 

[LordRaptor]

Really when were those rights defined by the constitution or any amendment to it?

The ninth amendment.
Because if you are suggesting that it makes sense that you have a right to own a gun, but not a right to not be raped, murdered, falsely imprisoned or enslaved.... what the fuck?

 

[Moneal]

The ninth amendment.
Because if you are suggesting that it makes sense that you have a right to own a gun, but not a right to not be raped, murdered, falsely imprisoned or enslaved.... what the fuck?

How does this give someone the right to rape his wife or own slaves or any of the other things you mentioned.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

And here is my full post.

Really when were those rights defined by the constitution or any amendment to it? I am pretty sure there wasn't a government can't stop you from raping your wife clause. or factories or businesses can't be regulated clause. or government can't charge you with murder for dueling clause. or a police brutality clause. where were the things you mentioned rights. please point them out to me. just because they were not illegal does not mean they were rights.

As for slavery it is only mentioned once in the constitution, and isn't mentioned as a right or something the government can't take away, and in the amendments it is outlawed.

notice i said it was never a right that a man could rape his wife, own slaves, kill someone in a duel, or for police to brutally assault someone. You were the one saying those were rights that were taken away. I said they never were rights to begin with. And the last part again just because something is or was legal at one point in time does not make it a right.

 

[LordRaptor]

I said they never were rights to begin with.

Which is why you are wrong.
you are saying "rights" are only the things explicitly outlined as part of the constitution. The ninth amendment expressly states that that is not true, and that people have rights that go beyond a piece of paper.

And again, we are back to the ridiculousness that owning a gun is more of a right than not being murdered, enslaved, raped, or falesly imprisoned.
Which is prima facie nonsensical.

You have the lawful right to do anything that is not illegal.
When laws change, those rights are therefore curtailed.


Its not like the gun nuts were up in arms over Guantanamo and things like waterboarding which are a flagrant breach of the constitutional protections against "cruel and unusual punishment"

 

[PhendranaMama]

I couldn't be more impressed with these students.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I couldn't be more impressed with these students.

It's incredible.

And this will be the generation helping us to get back on track in 2018 and 2020.

 

[KevinKeene]

Good to see *something* finally happen in the USA. I hope is not short-lived. These students are doing a thousands time more for the bettering of the world than all those keyboard warriors calling for hard working people to be fired.

Keep protesting! Civilians don't need guns. Proof: the vast majority of Europe.

 

[zelo-ca]

Good to see *something* finally happen in the USA. I hope is not short-lived. These students are doing a thousands time more for the bettering of the world than all those keyboard warriors calling for hard working people to be fired.

Keep protesting! Civilians don't need guns. Proof: the vast majority of Europe.

And why don't they need guns? Because the US military protects their ass fyi

 

[KevinKeene]

And why don't they need guns? Because the US military protects their ass fyi

And the us military may have all the guns they want. Kinda non-sequitur on your part.

 

[zelo-ca]

And the us military may have all the guns they want. Kinda non-sequitur on your part.

The rate of gun ownership does not equal gun deaths. It is more than just guns that's the problem. The universal background check to me is a start. We really need to figure out the lives of these shooters and see if they have anything in common. (badly raised, mental illness, abusive relationships etc).

 

[KevinKeene]

The rate of gun ownership does not equal gun deaths. It is more than just guns that's the problem. The universal background check to me is a start. We really need to figure out the lives of these shooters and see if they have anything in common. (badly raised, mental illness, abusive relationships etc).

Bullied?

 

[zelo-ca]

Bullied?

Could be, this is why banning certains guns or anything like that would not work. If you don't fix the actual problem then it will always persist.

 

[MogCakes]

The second amendment is the leading contributor here.

Man you are transparent as hell

 

[xStoyax]

I say we enforce the strict gun control laws that Chicago has. They are a model for the country

 

[zelo-ca]

I say we enforce the strict gun control laws that Chicago has. They are a model for the country

Which city has one of the worse crime rates in the country?

 

[appaws]

Close all the gun shops, ban the guns, and make people hand them in, you register your guns don't you? Illegal owned weapons you can have an amnesty. If you don't hand it in and you get caught it's off to jail with you, or you get shot trying to defend your freedoms and rights and amendments and man toys (cause that's all they are)

That would be the end of the United States...and rightly so.

 

[gioGAF]

The media in this country is deplorable. I don't really think these kids are accomplishing anything with this "march". I do feel like there are outside forces at work here trying to push their political agenda (and utilizing a tragedy as a springboard).

Why is no one going after the media? Why does the media keep glorifying the acts of these sick individuals (the shooters)? The media hands out millions of dollars in free advertisement to the pieces of human garbage that commit these atrocities, fueling the copy cats and those obsessed with them.

How about people take some RESPONSIBILITY for their actions? The media should stop converting these people into celebrities. They should have a blanket ban on discussing the individual, their history, their personal struggle, etc. Seriously, f' these losers and f' the media for glorifying them.

Instead, what is being pushed is for the rest of us to lose our rights. Keep firearms out of the hands of IRRESPONSIBLE people, don't punish RESPONSIBLE citizens.

 

[rokkerkory]

Kudo's to these kids for expressing their 1st amendment rights. I hope they can truly change things or make a large enough impact.

 

[zelo-ca]

Close all the gun shops, ban the guns, and make people hand them in, you register your guns don't you? Illegal owned weapons you can have an amnesty. If you don't hand it in and you get caught it's off to jail with you, or you get shot trying to defend your freedoms and rights and amendments and man toys (cause that's all they are)

Do you want a civil war? Cause that is how you get a civil war.

 

[zelo-ca]

That would be the end of the United States...and rightly so.

Please explain what you mean by "rightly so"

 

[Coffe Time]

The media in this country is deplorable. I don't really think these kids are accomplishing anything with this "march". I do feel like there are outside forces at work here trying to push their political agenda (and utilizing a tragedy as a springboard).

Why is no one going after the media? Why does the media keep glorifying the acts of these sick individuals (the shooters)? The media hands out millions of dollars in free advertisement to the pieces of human garbage that commit these atrocities, fueling the copy cats and those obsessed with them.

How about people take some RESPONSIBILITY for their actions? The media should stop converting these people into celebrities. They should have a blanket ban on discussing the individual, their history, their personal struggle, etc. Seriously, f' these losers and f' the media for glorifying them.

Instead, what is being pushed is for the rest of us to lose our rights. Keep firearms out of the hands of IRRESPONSIBLE people, don't punish RESPONSIBLE citizens.

I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "One bad apple spoils the bunch". In this case we've had years and many instances of "bad apples". Responsible gun owners would understand why there is a movement calling for stricter gun laws. Responsible gun owners would support the movement, because if they are responsible themselves, they have nothing to fear apart some small tests and obtaining a license (if stricter gun laws actually went into effect. I would look at it like getting a drivers license and renewing that every few years.)
Responsible gun owners would not place their gun rights above rights of other innocent people (in this case children) to live without fear of being killed.

Be a responsible gun owner. Don't act like a child complaining their toy got taken away.