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[dolabla]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/08/doz...spected-syria-gas-attack-damascus-denies.html

A chemical attack on a rebel-held town in eastern Ghouta killed dozens of people, a medical relief organisation and a rescue service said, and Washington said the reports — if confirmed — would demand an immediate international response.

A joint statement by the medical relief organisation Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS) and the civil defense, which operates in rebel-held areas, said 49 people had died.

The Russian-backed Syrian state denied government forces had launched any chemical attack as reports began circulating on Saturday night. The government said rebels in the eastern Ghouta town of Douma were collapsing and spreading false news.

Reuters could not independently verify the reports.

The lifeless bodies of around a dozen children, women and men, some of them with foam at the mouth, were shown in one video circulated by activists. "Douma city, April 7 ... there is a strong smell here," a voice can be heard saying.

The U.S. State Department said reports of mass casualties from an alleged chemical weapons attack in Douma were "horrifying" and would, if confirmed, "demand an immediate response by the international community".

This is some awfully convenient timing for a gas attack just as Trump announced troops would be leaving Syria.

 

[bucyou]

Horrible situation over there. It makes you wonder if it would be better now if Obama enforced his "line in the sand" when he attempted to confront the issue.

 

[Dunki]

It would be better if people would stop supporting a Monster like Assad. He is a war criminal and as long he is in power nothing will really change there.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Horrible situation over there. It makes you wonder if it would be better now if Obama enforced his "line in the sand" when he attempted to confront the issue.

Took literally first post to mention Obama. Has to be a new record.

 

[bucyou]

Took literally first post to mention Obama. Has to be a new record.

Its relevant to the situation at hand.

Maybe try to answer or add literally anything to the topic, instead of shit posting, that is.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Its relevant to the situation at hand.

Maybe try to answer or add literally anything to the topic, instead of shit posting, that is.

Barely relevant if at all. He's been gone for a year and a half now.

Granted, didn't stop Trump from doing the same thing.

 

[dolabla]

It would be better if people would stop supporting a Monster like Assad. He is a war criminal and as long he is in power nothing will really change there.

No doubt Assad is a dictator. But if you overthrow Assad, who exactly do you get in there? The terrorist rebels? It's a no win situation there. You pretty much have to choose the lesser of the two evils. And Assad is that.

We've already seen what overthrowing middle eastern dictators leads to (Iraq, Libya, etc). It's best we don't continue making that same mistake imo.

This gas attack does not make sense to me. Assad is winning the war and just got the biggest gift in his lifetime (US troops pulling out of Syria soon) a few days ago and he decides to launch a massive gas attack (which would sure enough bring massive worldwide attention to him and his regime again)? It just doesn't add up.

Either he is really stupid, or the terrorist rebels launched this attack (to blame on the him) mere days after Trump announced US troops would be leaving Syria.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Horrible situation over there. It makes you wonder if it would be better now if Obama enforced his "line in the sand" when he attempted to confront the issue.

Syria is friends with Russia and Iran. Had Obama tried to do something(like trying to remove Assad) there would bean increased tension between the US versus Russia and Iran. Maybe that's why there are Russian Mercenaries in Syria and why they have fought US soldiers.

 

[camelCase]

Terrible how we can't just send a bunch of troops in there and decimate the place. How many unsuccessful attempts at peace we need over a many-year period to realize that negotiation is out of the question? It seems that this affair will continue to be a burden on the world.

 

[TrainedRage]

We need to gtfo of that place.

 

[Night.Ninja]

I thought we stopped caring about Syria? now to there’s chemical attack people want to take notice

 

[TrainedRage]

Trump Vows ‘Big Price’ for Syria Attack, Raising Prospect of Missile Strike
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/us/politics/trump-syria-chemical-attack.html

"In a tweet, Mr. Trump laid the blame for the attack partly on President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia"


Well there goes that narrative.

 

[JDB]

What narrative?

 

[Paulxo87]

I wonder if the US military strikes that are going to obviously happen within the next 48 hours will target Syrian government buildings directly

 

[TrainedRage]

What narrative?

That Trump would never do anything to upset Putin or make him look bad 'cuz they are bff's!!

 

[Mahadev]

What a coincidence! Right when the Al Queda assholes are being defeated *ahem* I mean "rebels", Assad decides to carry out a chemical attack on innocent population! A month or so ago Russia had warned of another false flag by CIA btw.

But sure Trump, go kill Assad and when another ISIS springs out blame Islam.

 

[JDB]

That Trump would never do anything to upset Putin or make him look bad 'cuz they are bff's!!

It's been years of Trump throwing everyone (including pretty much every ally) under the bus constantly and handling Putin with kid's gloves and this on tweet convinces you? He couldn't even be bothered to make up another stupid nickname for Putin either. Not believing all the Russia stuff with Trump is one thing, but denying that he has been uncharacteristically friendly and forgiving with him and Russia is just delusional.

 

[God Enel]

Sometimes I wonder how many people in Syria are still alive? It's like every day you read some city is being bombed and civilists dieing left and right.
And I wonder why are there still people left :/

 

[TrainedRage]

It's been years of Trump throwing everyone (including pretty much every ally) under the bus constantly and handling Putin with kid's gloves and this on tweet convinces you? He couldn't even be bothered to make up another stupid nickname for Putin either. Not believing all the Russia stuff with Trump is one thing, but denying that he has been uncharacteristically friendly and forgiving with him and Russia is just delusional.

Why would he even tweet it then? Your tinfoil hat is showing.

 

[Jose92]

No doubt Assad is a dictator. But if you overthrow Assad, who exactly do you get in there? The terrorist rebels? It's a no win situation there. You pretty much have to choose the lesser of the two evils. And Assad is that.


Either he is really stupid, or the terrorist rebels launched this attack (to blame on the him) mere days after Trump announced US troops would be leaving Syria.

Assad is not stupid and the "terrorist" rebels, which a lot of western media outlets would love to color them as radical Islamist groups, do not have the necessary facilities infrastructure or backing to develop such kind of chemical weapons. What is happening is that Assad Does not care about any kind of unethical or nonhuman acts. As he got the backing of the all the free world leaders. Because if Assad was removed from power, this will create an instability next to Israel The American darling. Hence, Assad knows he knows he can do what he wants and no one would Do anything.

Last month a Russian ex-spy agent was poisoned in the uk by Russia, and all the free world leaders have condemned such actions and kicked alot of russian diplomats from there countries. But this the 3rd time Assad uses chemical weapons, and nothing have happened except crossing the red line that was put by Obama for the third time. This is what I call double standards.

 

[JDB]

Why would he even tweet it then? Your tinfoil hat is showing.

Not the first time he warned the Syrian and Russian troops about a missile strike.
Also, there's nothing tinfoil hatty about observing Trump being a lot more friendly than any other country for no particular reason.

 

[TrainedRage]

Not the first time he warned the Syrian and Russian troops about a missile strike.
Also, there's nothing tinfoil hatty about observing Trump being a lot more friendly than any other country for no particular reason.

You cant think of any reason to be amicable with Russia?

 

[TheLaughingStock]

That Trump would never do anything to upset Putin or make him look bad 'cuz they are bff's!!

People who think Pres. Trump is a Russian puppet/agent are dummies. It's impossible for that to be the case over a year in. All the information he has daily access to, people he can appoint, and the decisions he can unilaterally make would mean the US gov't is completely compromised. Dumbest conspiracy since the folks that said 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[WaterAstro]

Why would he even tweet it then? Your tinfoil hat is showing.

The dude tweets anything that you can't even tell if he's serious or not. He'll probably say to Putin that it was his lawyer that tweeted it. lol

 

[CampbellzSoup]

The dude tweets anything that you can't even tell if he's serious or not. He'll probably say to Putin that it was his lawyer that tweeted it. lol

I honestly feel Trump makes genuine people of intellect, stupid, I do.

 

[Mohonky]

Barely relevant if at all. He's been gone for a year and a half now.

Granted, didn't stop Trump from doing the same thing.

Im not sure how you can say its not relevent. The use of chemical weapons was supposed to be the line in the sand that would have legitimised international intervention against Assad. In the end everyone sort of stood off on the idea feariglng they'd have another Afhanistan where they would never get out or an Iraq situatuon with someone like ISIS.

So Russia stepped in and closed the door. With Russia aiding Syria the option to intervene with Assad on any formal level was out tue door unless you wanted to escalate it into a full blown conflict between world super powers.

It was a major turning point.

(And if you ask me I think Obama did the right thing in staying out of it as far as full scale military intervention)

 

[Bolivar687]

Someone should do something.

 

[God Enel]

Sometimes I wonder how many people are still living there. Are there any left? Except the people fighting. You read shit like that more or less on a daily basis.

 

[Corrik]

Someone struck a Syria air Base with missile strikes. As of now no one has claimed responsibility. The missiles supposedly came from over Lebanon. Israel, France, UK or USA are the likeliest to have launched it.

USA has vaguely denied it as of now.

There is a huge proxy war in Syria.

You have Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Russia, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Israel, USA, and others all involved in some way.

 

[Dice]

I don't think the US did the air strike, as we owned up to the time we launched a bunch of missiles that embarrassingly only hit a runway and some junkers. It very easily could have been Israel, though. The gas attack also could have been done by any country that wants Assad to fall (particularly Turkey, IMO) since it happened right after Trump announced a troop withdrawal and Assad was about to get control of those areas back, anyway. Makes no sense to attack the civilians, drawing negative reaction right back to them. Plus no one has properly determined it was sarin and there are reports of strong chlorine smells, so who knows what the hell it was. There also hasn't been any identification done on the barrels that supposedly leaked the gas and no one identified the helicopters or what direction they went.

It's a huge fucking mess out there. What we need for everything is evidence and a hell of a lot more collaborative recon to keep track of these random attacks. Too many people have something to gain and too much can go catastrophically wrong.

 

[Corrik]

I don't think the US did the air strike, as we owned up to the time we launched a bunch of missiles that embarrassingly only hit a runway and some junkers. It very easily could have been Israel, though. The gas attack also could have been done by any country that wants Assad to fall (particularly Turkey, IMO) since it happened right after Trump announced a troop withdrawal and Assad was about to get control of those areas back, anyway. Makes no sense to attack the civilians, drawing negative reaction right back to them. Plus no one has properly determined it was sarin and there are reports of strong chlorine smells, so who knows what the hell it was. There also hasn't been any identification done on the barrels that supposedly leaked the gas and no one identified the helicopters or what direction they went.

It's a huge fucking mess out there. What we need for everything is evidence and a hell of a lot more collaborative recon to keep track of these random attacks. Too many people have something to gain and too much can go catastrophically wrong.

Russia and US have satellites. They would know if someone dropped them to frame Assad.

Assad dropped them. Stop being a conspiracy theorist lol.

 

[Dice]

Russia and US have satellites. They would know if someone dropped them to frame Assad.

Assad dropped them. Stop being a conspiracy theorist lol.

Please refer me to either military making a claim for or against Assad having done it on the basis of surveillance evidence. I sure haven't seen any. I have seen news reports citing civilians on the ground, the US blaming Assad on the basis of his history, Russia asking for investigation and evidence, and Assad denying it was him. I have seen no one saying "we used military equipment to track helicopters moving from here to here" or some such, or even vague claims that any statement was based on military info.

It's not conspiracy theorist to know that when a lot of countries have something to gain, sneak attacks on civilians to manipulate the players could be from anyone in the mix. It has been part of war for as long as there has been war.

 

[MisterFalcon]

"Assad is winning, why would he use gas" was used in the first gas attack 4,5 years ago, imagine #winning so hard you keep doing it for years and years.

Aug 21, 2013
So Assad used chemical weapons a day before UN inspectors arrive...

It is just so hard for me to believe that people can think that they are so stupid in using them, especially when they are winning the war.

Aug 21, 2013
Assad, who's on the edge of winning a war, suddenly decides to engage in chemical warfare. How logical.

Aug 21, 2013
That said, I agree. Assad would be foolish to do this. Especially when he is currently winning and the rebels are getting desperate. They're not exactly the model citizen you know.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/syria-hundreds-killed-in-chemical-attack.657149/

 

[Dunki]

No doubt Assad is a dictator. But if you overthrow Assad, who exactly do you get in there? The terrorist rebels? It's a no win situation there. You pretty much have to choose the lesser of the two evils. And Assad is that.

We've already seen what overthrowing middle eastern dictators leads to (Iraq, Libya, etc). It's best we don't continue making that same mistake imo.

This gas attack does not make sense to me. Assad is winning the war and just got the biggest gift in his lifetime (US troops pulling out of Syria soon) a few days ago and he decides to launch a massive gas attack (which would sure enough bring massive worldwide attention to him and his regime again)? It just doesn't add up.

Either he is really stupid, or the terrorist rebels launched this attack (to blame on the him) mere days after Trump announced US troops would be leaving Syria.

As some people mentioned before He used them before and he was wining. He does not care. He is a war criminal. Also War means money as well. Assad does not care about his people.

 

[Corrik]

Please refer me to either military making a claim for or against Assad having done it on the basis of surveillance evidence. I sure haven't seen any. I have seen news reports citing civilians on the ground, the US blaming Assad on the basis of his history, Russia asking for investigation and evidence, and Assad denying it was him. I have seen no one saying "we used military equipment to track helicopters moving from here to here" or some such, or even vague claims that any statement was based on military info.

It's not conspiracy theorist to know that when a lot of countries have something to gain, sneak attacks on civilians to manipulate the players could be from anyone in the mix. It has been part of war for as long as there has been war.

The gas attack happened during an Assad attack on the area.

9/11 was an inside job too, right? Lololol

 

[Corrik]

The sad part is that 1 of these 3 scenarios is the only logical answer. I'll put them in most likely to least.

1. Assad ordered a chemical attack just to do it because he doesn't care.

2. Assad's command is so fractured that others in his command ordered a chemical attack without his orders.

3. Rebel elements in the country have chemical weapons storages under their control, that are not using them, and Assad's attack blew up said storage site to gas those people.


All 3 scenarios are seriously frightening to consider. Btw, Syria claimed number 3 happened.

 

[Bolivar687]

The sad part is that 1 of these 3 scenarios is the only logical answer. I'll put them in most likely to least.

1. Assad ordered a chemical attack just to do it because he doesn't care.

2. Assad's command is so fractured that others in his command ordered a chemical attack without his orders.

3. Rebel elements in the country have chemical weapons storages under their control, that are not using them, and Assad's attack blew up said storage site to gas those people.


All 3 scenarios are seriously frightening to consider. Btw, Syria claimed number 3 happened.

The explanation I've heard is that it's a symbolic gesture to break the morale of the opposition, that their enemy is willing to gas civilians the longer they hold out. It seems plausible that he would use it at the end of a war to stop then from prolonging the imevitable.

 

[Sarkozix le Gaulois]

Stop being a conspiracy theorist lol.

AKA stop using your brain pls and follow the narrative.

 

[JDB]

You cant think of any reason to be amicable with Russia?

No, and that's not what I said. There's also plenty of reasons to be friendly with Germany, China, Mexico, NATO, or any of the USA's allies. Yet he seems insistent on shitting on them regularly, but somehow Russia and especially Putin seem exempt from this. (aside from this milquetoast Tweet just now) Again, it's impossible to confidently say what the reason behind it is at the moment, but at least don't pretend like this isn't a thing that is happening. Imagine if any other country had hacked US voter registration and the power grid, what kind of response would we see of Trump? A congratulations for winning a rigged elections? Doubtful.

 

[TrainedRage]

No, and that's not what I said. There's also plenty of reasons to be friendly with Germany, China, Mexico, NATO, or any of the USA's allies. Yet he seems insistent on shitting on them regularly, but somehow Russia and especially Putin seem exempt from this. (aside from this milquetoast Tweet just now) Again, it's impossible to confidently say what the reason behind it is at the moment, but at least don't pretend like this isn't a thing that is happening. Imagine if any other country had hacked US voter registration and the power grid, what kind of response would we see of Trump? A congratulations for winning a rigged elections? Doubtful.

Russia rigged the election so Trump won? Lol look at this dude regurgitating those liberal talking points. Please show your sources to the government they have been looking for this proof of collusion for over a year. I'm sure you would make the news.

 

[JDB]

Russia rigged the election so Trump won? Lol look at this dude regurgitating those liberal talking points. Please show your sources to the government they have been looking for this proof of collusion for over a year. I'm sure you would make the news.

Where did I say this? I'm talking about Putin's own election and Russian hacking of voter registration and the power grid that even the Trump administration confirmed happened. Now stop pivoting and reply to my actual post.

 

[NickFire]

This has to end. And by end, I mean we need to stop worrying about Obama's line in the sand. And we need to stop worrying about "collusion" 1.5 years after starting to look for it. Its time to stop the infighting and focus our anger where it properly belongs. Putin has been and continues playing the US for fools by creating inner strife while he pulls shit like annexing land of a sovereign nation. In my opinion, this was most likely sanctioned by Russia to specifically cause and continue discord when he knew Trump's desire to pull out would be welcomed by some and derided by others.

 

[AnimalFather]

False flag operation. Why would Assad use chemicals in a war he's winning by a far margin. The West is just looking for an excuse to attack and Saudi operatives have provided that excuse for the 10th time.

 

[NickFire]

False flag operation. Why would Assad use chemicals in a war he's winning by a far margin. The West is just looking for an excuse to attack and Saudi operatives have provided that excuse for the 10th time.

I can accept that an enemy of Assad could be behind it. I think accusing someone we are helping fight against would be a stretch (absent strong proof) because its in their best interests for us to leave. But I still think this is more likely Putin's call to keep sowing the discord.

 

[AnimalFather]

I can accept that an enemy of Assad could be behind it. I think accusing someone we are helping fight against would be a stretch (absent strong proof) because its in their best interests for us to leave. But I still think this is more likely Putin's call to keep sowing the discord.

there is no sowing any discord. the US and its Allies are supporting ISIS/AlQaida and its affiliates and Russia is bombing them to hell.

 

[Dice]

The gas attack happened during an Assad attack on the area.

9/11 was an inside job too, right? Lololol

The ad hominem and straw man is really unnecessary.

Again I ask: What officials on any side have given any sort of evidence or even made claims to having verifiable secret information that makes them certain who did it? People on the ground said they saw helicopters drop barrels. The US said it was Assad on the basis that it sounds like something he would do. You have taken Washington's position and made many presumptions and rationalizations to support it, but you have not provided any information from anyone that clearly demonstrates that it was Assad.

I am asking for evidence, investigation, and clear determination of who the actors were in the attack before choosing a narrative. That is the exact opposite of a conspiracy theory. You are choosing a narrative and coming up with ways that it could be considered reasonable. That is conspiracy theory whether or not it aligns with the assertions of a state.

There are several states involved in this conflict. It is a very high-stakes conflict that has potential to cause World War III. I find it very important to verify information, back up accusations with substantial evidences, and not make aggressive advances based on presumptions. If we are already accusing Assad, there is absolutely no reason to withhold any supporting information. If our satellites, radar, or troops observed the activity, why would our officials not declare as much? Why would they base their accusation on it being "like him" to do such a thing? What is the explanation for the strong chlorine smells? Where are the sarin barrels?

 

[Corrik]

The ad hominem and straw man is really unnecessary.

Again I ask: What officials on any side have given any sort of evidence or even made claims to having verifiable secret information that makes them certain who did it? People on the ground said they saw helicopters drop barrels. The US said it was Assad on the basis that it sounds like something he would do. You have taken Washington's position and made many presumptions and rationalizations to support it, but you have not provided any information from anyone that clearly demonstrates that it was Assad.

I am asking for evidence, investigation, and clear determination of who the actors were in the attack before choosing a narrative. That is the exact opposite of a conspiracy theory. You are choosing a narrative and coming up with ways that it could be considered reasonable. That is conspiracy theory whether or not it aligns with the assertions of a state.

There are several states involved in this conflict. It is a very high-stakes conflict that has potential to cause World War III. I find it very important to verify information, back up accusations with substantial evidences, and not make aggressive advances based on presumptions. If we are already accusing Assad, there is absolutely no reason to withhold any supporting information. If our satellites, radar, or troops observed the activity, why would our officials not declare as much? Why would they base their accusation on it being "like him" to do such a thing? What is the explanation for the strong chlorine smells? Where are the sarin barrels?

Syria's literal response was that they must have accidentally hit a chemical weapon storage area during their attack.

Russia was the one who planted the "lol must have been a 'false flag'"

 

[Dice]

Syria's literal response was that they must have accidentally hit a chemical weapon storage area during their attack.

And that is still plausible since we have had reports of strong chlorine smells and zero confirmation that it was in fact sarin, and it happened at the same time as a bombing, and we have not recovered the barrels and have not cited any military tracking of said helicopters.

Russia was the one who planted the "lol must have been a 'false flag'"

Seeing as how zero investigation has taken place, they are free to hold that as a possibility. Maybe if we actually bothered to validate things and obtain evidence before levying accusations and drumming up military actions, we would be able to shut them up.

Are you familiar with the history of false flag attacks? They have happened many, many times. They have been later admitted to many, many times. It's not just a concept conspiracy theorists enjoy. It holds as a possibility before the nations of the world, and they all know it does because they have all witnessed such things happen and many have directly experienced it. That is why, in order to keep international incidents clear and our own actions justified before other nations, we need to get things properly verified and put evidence on the table when we know a situation is setting us at odds with another (and potentially, another) strong global power that is forever suspicious of us.

 

[dolabla]

 

[Corrik]

And that is still plausible since we have had reports of strong chlorine smells and zero confirmation that it was in fact sarin, and it happened at the same time as a bombing, and we have not recovered the barrels and have not cited any military tracking of said helicopters.

Seeing as how zero investigation has taken place, they are free to hold that as a possibility. Maybe if we actually bothered to validate things and obtain evidence before levying accusations and drumming up military actions, we would be able to shut them up.

Are you familiar with the history of false flag attacks? They have happened many, many times. They have been later admitted to many, many times. It's not just a concept conspiracy theorists enjoy. It holds as a possibility before the nations of the world, and they all know it does because they have all witnessed such things happen and many have directly experienced it. That is why, in order to keep international incidents clear and our own actions justified before other nations, we need to get things properly verified and put evidence on the table when we know a situation is setting us at odds with another (and potentially, another) strong global power that is forever suspicious of us.

Syria's government forces are surrounding the area and not letting anyone investigate.