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[Antoon]

I love this yearly data, not that its great news, but because it makes the problem much more visible so more people can become aware of the poison that is social media.

 

[Antoon]

Whenever I talk about this subject with people in real life nobody takes me seriously, and its pretty creepy seeing 10 years olds on instagramm comparing follower count. I teach part-time so I get the privilege to see this first hand.

 

[Orpheum]

Whenever I talk about this subject with people in real life nobody takes me seriously, and its pretty creepy seeing 10 years olds on instagramm comparing follower count. I teach part-time so I get the privilege to see this first hand.

That's tough. Around me, people actually take this very seriously and i hope that this social media obsession will go away with the next generation. My mom is drowning in work because of teenagers and children with delusional expectations about life and corresponding depression due to social media addiction. Children must not under any circumstances grow up with social media.

 

[SKM1]

That's tough. Around me, people actually take this very seriously and i hope that this social media obsession will go away with the next generation. My mom is drowning in work because of teenagers and children with delusional expectations about life and corresponding depression due to social media addiction. Children must not under any circumstances grow up with social media.

I knew that looking at the "success" of other in social media could make you depressed but didn't consider what would happen if you actually, from the very beginning, thought that was how life actually was. That's a frightening thought.

 

[The Elite]

I am worried about how I am going to handle this with my son. I absolutely want to keep him away from social media until at least high school but I know he is going to get access to it anyway. So maybe it's best to allow him to use it at a younger age so I can guide him through the bullshit.

 

[iconmaster]

I would say social media is pretty much best avoided, yes, but email and texting with friends the parents know can be fine.

Be involved, use the available tools (Disney Circle, Apple Screen Time, etc.) and you can have clear-headed kids with whom you have great relationships.

(Be willing to take the device away occasionally too.)

Source: am dad with three teens, and am really pretty conservative about this stuff.

 

[Orpheum]

I knew that looking at the "success" of other in social media could make you depressed but didn't consider what would happen if you actually, from the very beginning, thought that was how life actually was. That's a frightening thought.

Yeah the kids see these "influencers" travelling all the time, living in huge ass houses and so on. It creates an image in their head that this is the life they either should or will soon live and profit off of it too. The number one jobs my mom keeps hearing when she asks kids about their desired future profession (used to be police officer, astronaut, enigneer, the standard stuff you get the point) is "Instagramer" or "Youtube vlogger"

I am worried about how I am going to handle this with my son. I absolutely want to keep him away from social media until at least high school but I know he is going to get access to it anyway. So maybe it's best to allow him to use it at a younger age so I can guide him through the bullshit.

that's exactly it. Keeping them away entirely is next to impossible but we know the dangers now so we can maybe be the voice of reason

 

[lil puff]

The distraction with phones in general would seem to be a problem for developing pre-teens.

This is going to come down to old fashioned smart parenting, while understanding some things cannot be avoided. Most of us did things behind our parents back, but a good talk and reminders at least keeps them aware.

My fear is that these things change social dynamics, normalize distraction, and promote the 'I need this now' attitude that can affect a developing teen.

 

[highrider]

My son is 16, most of his peers use Instagram. They all seem ok to me. I think it’s less about the use of social media and more related to parents who don’t pay attention to their kids. Navigating social media and the internet in general is just part of teaching your child.

Parents often get in to a clock in/clock out mentality with children. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and most of my peers were from single parent homes and enjoyed complete autonomy until the end of the day. Almost unheard of today. And a lot of smart people aren’t having kids, it’s still the less educated and less financially stable people cranking out kids. The smart people that do have kids are often helicopter parents, smothering them with activities and constant supervision. The most successful parents have a common thread imo, they really want to be parents, but understand their control is finite and start laying the groundwork of a trusting relationship with their children as they get older and become young adults.

 

[olimariOA]

"They all seem ok to me" is this generation's "my parent's spanked me I turned out fine".

Gen X and now millennials are having the absolute worst outcomes with their children.
It's failed parenting ideology and needs to be squashed. We should all immediately be returning to a parenting style that produced better outcomes.

-Cry it out for infants is bad
-TV and iPad for infants and toddlers is bad
-iPad and iPhone for young children is bad
-Social media for children and tweens is bad
-Helicopter parenting for children of all ages is bad
-Failing to make the distinction between razzing and bullying is bad

Our young people now are more depressed, hurting themselves more, and killing themselves more.
I'm not rolling the dice with my son. He's going to play in the mud instead of on the iPad. He's going to listen to music instead of watching Paw Patrol. He's going to roam the neighborhood with his friends instead of having me supervise his every action. And if he gets in a tussle or somebody calls him a bad name I'm going to teach him how to deal with it instead of crying "BULLYING!"

Love y'all! God speed!

 

[SKM1]

Well, on the other hand you have this

 

[lil puff]

I'm not rolling the dice with my son. He's going to play in the mud instead of on the iPad. He's going to listen to music instead of watching Paw Patrol. He's going to roam the neighborhood with his friends instead of having me supervise his every action. And if he gets in a tussle or somebody calls him a bad name I'm going to teach him how to deal with it instead of crying "BULLYING!"

Love y'all! God speed!

I like this. It's promoting observation and appreciation for the real tangible world, so the kid can develop actual interests and develop and trust their own critical thinking and self worth.

 

[highrider]

"They all seem ok to me" is this generation's "my parent's spanked me I turned out fine".

Oh gee, olimariOA has a problem with something I posted. I’m getting tired of you dude. Tired of you casually disrespecting me, and you’ve done it several times now. Just pm me if you have some personal issue.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

There will be some parents who will blame social media as an excuse for their lack of parenting skills in how their kids turn out as adults. However, companies are so good at getting you "hooked"and peer pressure is on you 24/7, that FOMO, the need for recognition as a form of meaning is hard to escape for adults let alone young minds that are still learning the intricacies of being an individual in society. Education once again is the key, teach the children at a young age the value and the limits of the technology and the social interactions they have and how as an individual they must learn to see the danger or warning signs. Social media companies should be regulated to make sure education tools are available that warns of the dangers of its use from bullying to narcissistic expression to sexual exploitation etc. If accountability is expressed on all angles from industry to parents and to the education system then the dangers this technology possesses maybe outweighed be the benefits they can achieve. Benefits such as knowledge sharing worldwide interconnectedness and a closer social reach for those who may physically have challengs doing so.

I know its sounds a bit idealistic but sometimes there is no choice when a technology is this freely available.

 

[Trojita]

Don't let it be an obsession and maybe channel their tech side into a hobby or focus.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

my bro is raising his kids this way. it sucks for them cos there are already spoiled kids in school w phones but ffs let them grow up first before they get taken into the hellscape that is social media.

 

[Alfen Dave]

I had my first cell phone at 18, starting college , and it was a cheap CALL ONLY-no text messages plan, best decision of my life.

I NEVER linger more than 15 min per day on it, either to text, or wander on social media. I really use it for its practical purpose; bus schedule, gps, important calls/text and so on.

I don't wanna talkdown other people who use it more often but remember phones should not own you people.
I completely agree with the post/video.

I might be one of the really few poeple out there that could forget his cell phone home when leaving to work and not get a heart attack about it.

 

[Westtiger361]

I did this of my own volition and am pissed looking back on it, I missed a ton of opportunities to expand my social life because I didn't want to be one of those kids obsessed with my social media but the reality is majority of kids communicate this way and I missed out on a lot fun things cause I wasn't in the know. Restricting phone usage is a definite maybe but getting rid of it all together may not be the best idea

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I am slowly teaching my 7-year-old about the internet. He visits a few websites (mostly trashy Mario-themed flash game repositories) but doesn't chat with people online. Kids his age don't seem to talk on the phone, either.

Do people keep all their friends from middle-school and high-school anyway? I'm sure some do, but the excuse of "they need to socialize" kind of goes out the window if it is shown to damage their social abilities later in life.

Overall, it's just an issue of laziness. Parents used the TV to babysit the kids. Now they use social media too.

I've heard the strongest feelings against social media from my own generation (millennials). My parents and grandparents and all their friends were more than happy to jump onto Facebook. Not as many use Twitter or Instagram but some do.

Everyone is addicted to it. It damages our brains and our ability to communicate and parse world events properly. The people who are getting out now will be ahead of the curve.

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

I consider myself lucky to have not been growing up with this sad, ever-growing monster [social media]. My heart goes out to all of you with children in dealing with it or bracing for the exposure.

 

[EviLore]

Rogan misinterpreted a lot of Haidt's messaging on this one. He doesn't realize he's a scared helicopter parent.

 

[lil puff]

Just about everyday my manager comes in telling everyone stuff about the new thing her young son has learned on the internet.

This kid is like in the 3rd grade, already bad dirty language, memes, Fortnite, he showed a girl his wee wee... etc, I could go on. Hs focus has lacked in class lately, and his performance has lowered, and she has had to work with school counselors that suggested he had ADHD. She doesn't agree.

That is of course, anecdotal. But she is a bad manager, unprofessional, truck driver mouthed, somewhat lazy or ambivalent, afraid to hold my colleagues accountable. She is the socializing type. Her son has free reign over the internet, based off the things she alludes to.

When she comes in complaining or venting about her kid, it's funny how everyone is like 'what??' 'ohh noo'. 'no way!' I'm like, 'yeah big shocker there'.

 

[ValiantTraveler]

I'm happy to have grown up in the last years before the internet became available to everyone. I don't what I would have become if social media was around in the late 90s, especially knowing that my parents wouldn't be even aware of the dangers and I would be completely left to my own devices.

Seeing how social media screws up the minds of adults, the potential effects on kids are not be underestimated.

 

[quickwhips]

ICQ and irc always existed. All this new shit is the same shit. Now common folks are using it. Angelfire for life.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

I don't what I would have become if social media was around in the late 90s...

You mean like Genie, Compuserve, AOL, Prodigy, Q-Link, Freeserves, BBS, IRC, Geocities, LiveJournal, or USENET?

 

[olimariOA]

You mean like Genie, Compuserve, AOL, Prodigy, Q-Link, Freeserves, BBS, IRC, Geocities, LiveJournal, or USENET?

It isn't the same. Not even a little.

Broadband changed the game allowing us to share photos and videos.
Smartphones changed the game again allowing us 24/7 access
And allowing photos and videos to be easily shared
And creating app infrastructures specifically around connecting us and encouraging us to share out lives.

In 1998 we had AIM and to access it most teenagers had to log on to the family computer in a common space.
It made it impossible to abuse. While connected to AIM you basically had phone conversations in text form with a handful of people.

 

[reggie]

.

 

[olimariOA]

Social media is cancer, but banning it from your child's life is just asking for different problems. Kids communicate through a million different apps and sites, by banning it you're just going to get them ostracized and possibly hurt their social life.

Just be a responsible parent, monitor their usage and teach them the risks and responsibilities of using it.

That said, I do miss the days when we weren't connected 24/7 and it took calling a landline to get in contact with someone.

That's a pipe dream though, yeah?
Parents have already proven their inability to control it and teach to it.
Children are still hurting others, hurting themselves, and killing themselves at an unprecedented rate.
They are entering college emotionally unequipped.

Why not simply control the situation your kid is in? Find a school that disallows smartphones. Get your kid involved in sports and activities where there would be no time for a smartphone.
It's amazing the success I see in homeschool groups locally. These teenagers are smart, driven, and have genuine hobbies that they can dedicate their time to instead of being sucked into the smartphone black hole.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

It isn't the same. Not even a little.

Broadband changed the game allowing us to share photos and videos.
Smartphones changed the game again allowing us 24/7 access
And allowing photos and videos to be easily shared
And creating app infrastructures specifically around connecting us and encouraging us to share out lives.

In 1998 we had AIM and to access it most teenagers had to log on to the family computer in a common space.
It made it impossible to abuse. While connected to AIM you basically had phone conversations in text form with a handful of people.

I think you might be speaking for yourself here. I won't say it isn't easier now, but I was downloading porn off those services back in the early 90s. And BBS culture was absolutely about connecting us and encouraging us to share our lives. Social media isn't a new thing. Facebook is just Geocities for a new generation. Twitter is just a large scale version of the walls we used to post on through BBSes. Reddit is basically USENET. The internet largely does the same things it always has, just on a much grander scale.

 

[olimariOA]

I think you might be speaking for yourself here. I won't say it isn't easier now, but I was downloading porn off those services back in the early 90s. And BBS culture was absolutely about connecting us and encouraging us to share our lives. Social media isn't a new thing. Facebook is just Geocities for a new generation. Twitter is just a large scale version of the walls we used to post on through BBSes. Reddit is basically USENET. The internet largely does the same things it always has, just on a much grander scale.

Geocities and Instagram aren't even remotely comparable.
Maybe 5% of the people I knew in 1998 had a geocities page. Maybe 20% had a Xanga in 2003.
Still only accessed via desktop computer. Most people still connecting via dialup.

Facebook is not only in your hand every second of every day, but everybody you know uses it and the creators are employing psychologists to keep you using it indefinately.
You're connected at high speeds and your portable computer that fits into your pocket has a rear-facing camera that makes sharing the easiest thing ever.

Do you know what I had to do to share a photo in 1998?
Take it. Get it developed. Scan it. Upload it. Make sure I don't go over my geocities cap.
Then watch my hit counter go to 8.

Why are we doing this?
Isn't this a given that the access to and ease of social tech is unprecedented?
You'll do more on instagram in a day than you'd do on geocities in months.

 

[Papa]

Was gonna make a thread about this one but you beat me to it. Loved this interview and my main takeaways were:

- Haidt's views on teasing/mocking are pretty damn close to what I've been saying here. They are necessary social mechanisms because they teach kids where the social line is before they get to adulthood where the consequences for overstepping it can be much worse. Where it becomes a problem is when it develops into outright bullying, which serves no purpose other than to dehumanise. I like that he goes on to attempt to define bullying as (I'm paraphrasing from memory here) repeated, targeted harassment with a threat of physicality. The anti-bullying activists have unwittingly done much harm by classifying all mean words as bullying. The more effective approach to harm reduction is to develop kids to be able to handle mean words, not foolishly attempt to eliminate all mean words.

- I disagreed with Haidt when he fell into the standard "as a male" privilege apologies. The problem with the privilege argument is that it focuses on perceived unearned advantages, as opposed to tangible undeserved disadvantages. It's the flipside of the same coin, and focusing on privilege rather than disadvantage leads to solutions that take away rather than solutions that give. As a social scientist, he should really understand this better.

- Totally agree that social media rots kids' brains and mine won't be getting smart phones or social media until they're in late high school.

 

[Nymphae]

The more effective approach to harm reduction is to develop kids to be able to handle mean words, not foolishly attempt to eliminate all mean words.

There was wisdom in "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me"

 

[petran79]

It isn't the same. Not even a little.

Broadband changed the game allowing us to share photos and videos.
Smartphones changed the game again allowing us 24/7 access
And allowing photos and videos to be easily shared
And creating app infrastructures specifically around connecting us and encouraging us to share out lives.

In 1998 we had AIM and to access it most teenagers had to log on to the family computer in a common space.
It made it impossible to abuse. While connected to AIM you basically had phone conversations in text form with a handful of people.

Back then I was more busy worrying whether the modem would dial in an exotic island

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

The craziest thing to me was working at a middle school and all the 6th graders had iPhones. Like dude when I was in 6th grade I was stoked to have a pencil sharpener.

Think of the infinite void available at their fingertips, at that age.

It took me so long to sneak my first porn as a kid, that’s not really a thing anymore.

More importantly, the permanent digital footprints we leave now....not great for stupid naive kids

 

[border]

I feel like if you cut your kids off completely from internet/social media, they are just going to turn into the weird home-schooled kid that never quite knew how to relate to everybody else in school.

 

[olimariOA]

I feel like if you cut your kids off completely from internet/social media, they are just going to turn into the weird home-schooled kid that never quite knew how to relate to everybody else in school.

Your kid can now cut himself and swallow rat poison like his or her peers!

The truth is, there are circles where your kid can thrive socially around like-minded peers.
I don't think the standard American high school is necessary to raise a functioning adult.

One of my recurring clients brought up their children in a large homeschool community that had and is having incredible outcomes compared to the public high schools nearby. Kids are grade levels ahead, tend to excel in college after, and suicide in this community is non existent.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

Think of the infinite void available at their fingertips, at that age.

You should see the infinite void between their ears!

 

[zenspider]

I am worried about how I am going to handle this with my son. I absolutely want to keep him away from social media until at least high school but I know he is going to get access to it anyway. So maybe it's best to allow him to use it at a younger age so I can guide him through the bullshit.

I feel like this is one of those things that becomes a lot easier to deal with by understanding how social media, smartphone notifications, etc., manipulate us and being mindful of it.

Jonathan Haidt's book 'Coddling of the American Mind' has a lot of pages dedicated to addressing exactly your concerns as a parent and what you can do.

Also, look into Douglas Rushkoff's 'Program or Be Programmed' for a really effective way to combat the way we have become adapted to technology's needs, not it to ours. Tristan Harris and Jaron Lanier also speak to this really well.

There's probably more really good resources like Tistan Harris

 

[border]

One of my recurring clients brought up their children in a large homeschool community that had and is having incredible outcomes compared to the public high schools nearby. Kids are grade levels ahead, tend to excel in college after, and suicide in this community is non existent.

Playing the stats makes sense, but at the same time I'd rather have a socially adjusted kid that performs slightly above-average than an Honor student that is socially isolated. So much of life depends on your ability to network and relate, moreso than simply being smart and accomplished.

 

[olimariOA]

Playing the stats makes sense, but at the same time I'd rather have a socially adjusted kid that performs slightly above-average than an Honor student that is socially isolated. So much of life depends on your ability to network and relate, moreso than simply being smart and accomplished.

Homeschool communities like this one have maybe a hundred kids of varying ages that all see each other 4 days a week.
It's pretty close to how one-room schoolhouses used to operate.

I was blind to this world before taking on this client, but it's pretty remarkable and the kids are as social as can be.

Also I'm worried about the crippling depression and suicide, not just academic performance which is more of a happy bonus.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There's a reason that people who invented these platforms don't even allow their own children to use them.

 

[Dark Star]

my experience with social media is odd, because i was like 3-4 years late to the game compared to most of my friends/peers in school. I got my first smartphone in junior year of highschool (when everyone else i knew had one since like 8th grade). I didn't get into instagram/twitter/snapchat and all that until my first year of college. It felt good being more mature with my experience with social media, and smartphones, because I was very capable of making myself look stupid in my younger years with that technology.

I think social media should really be marketed towards adults, because children and young teenagers really should be doing better things with their time. If i had kids they wouldn't get smartphones until they could prove to me they're responsible enough to handle themselves. Keeping them off social media would be extremely tough since they can access it with a laptop and internet connection super easy... i'd rather them post on forums like GAF than use Twitter.. and that says A LOT.

I personally use social media applications to network, promote my music and collaborate with other artists. It's a business tool, like setting up a facebook page to share my creative work. Sure, i follow some funny accounts and sometimes comment on things casually, but NEVER being harmful or dangerous or even controversial. I keep my dumb opinions to myself, and some forums where i'm anonymous, but media like instagram should be very private and professional.

 

[pimentel1]

I was at the market the other day, and an old lady zipped on by demanding I get off my cell phone. “No socializing.” I go to grab a flat of water and she zips around the corner and complains again about me on the phone. “You’re going to bump into someone and hurt them.” I’m not moving or in her way as she rushes by. I’m using my phone for a shopping list. lol

 

[eddie4]

Do you know what I had to do to share a photo in 1998?
Take it. Get it developed. Scan it. Upload it. Make sure I don't go over my geocities cap.
Then watch my hit counter go to 8.

nostalgia.gif

I hate people comparing today to the past. It's not the same. Yeah, there was a social platform, but it was not instant. I didn't have instant access to my e-mail, messages, etc. I had to wait to get home, wait for my parents to stop using the phone, get on the internet, check my email, connect to instant messaging, browse Geocities pages, forums, and other sites, at a whopping 56k speed., if you're lucky. It usually took me 20-30 minutes to download an mp3. This was all done on a laptop, or desktop, not a device that fits in your pocket. Today you have access to unlimited information in your pocket, it's easy to get distracted, offended, and it's all "me, me, me, me, look at me, look what I'm doing!," then when someone doesn't agree with them, they cry "bullying, I'm offended, they're so mean" etc.

 

[hariseldon]

Whenever I talk about this subject with people in real life nobody takes me seriously, and its pretty creepy seeing 10 years olds on instagramm comparing follower count. I teach part-time so I get the privilege to see this first hand.

What's creepier is that most of their followers are 30+ year-old men.

 

[TTOOLL]

I work at a school and my students are teenagers. Mobile phones and social media are DESTROYING these kids' lives period.

Schools and parents MUST limit this shit.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

I think Social Media and the Internet in general can be dangrous for kids as they can accidentally see content they shouldn't at that age.

Growing up it was about phones but they got confiscated upon arrival which displased people but thst is how it was...it seems to have loosened up and now it dominates everywhere.

I used Twitter for 6 months and I couldn't be bothered after that as some users act really immature or secual for no reason (for humour) and I guess got fed up of everything being hated on.

I also fear that friends will no longer be a short distance thing and kids will not interact with people close to them (community rise) this way.

I think Social Media should be banned in School for the most part as it distracts them away from learning life lessons.

 

[hariseldon]

Oh gee, olimariOA has a problem with something I posted. I’m getting tired of you dude. Tired of you casually disrespecting me, and you’ve done it several times now. Just pm me if you have some personal issue.

Err no he just posted a different opinion.

 

[hariseldon]

Re the Geocities vs Instagram and ICQ vs Facebook debate. In general, there are many differences. Firstly, making a geocities page took, at the time, a fair amount of expertise, time and effort to create. It was you creating something and in general you did it for fun. You didn't have people commenting it or liking it. Additionally, you did it at a PC, and the medium does influence the message. It meant you had to think about what you were creating because it took time. The focus was on text rather than images and video, because of bandwidth, so it was more about ideas and thoughts, closer to a diary for some, or a scrapbook for others.

Moving to ICQ/MSN - that was one-to-one conversations (admittedly often with multiple people - the quality of conversation would definitely drop as the number increased) but it was direct conversation. You weren't in broadcast mode as is the case on facebook. It was a faster mode of communication than email or geocities, but you were still on your computer so you still tended to put more thought into it - there were no shortcut 'like' buttons for instance.

With the increase in multimedia, selfie-cams on phones and instagram filters we have something that doesn't really have an analogue in those times. Where in the more text-driven days you would discuss ideas, feelings, experiences, now you post a picture of yourself for social affirmation (well that's what girls do anyway) - in many ways it's most analogous to primates grooming each other for social status, but it's REALLY fucking unhealthy. Grown-ass men hitting on young girls on instagram, filters to totally distort their appearance and create a really weird idea of beauty (which is why make-up trends now are so weird), I mean it's really fucking nasty.

Finally addiction mechanisms. I get ICQ and MSN had that satisfying ping when a new message came in but that was it. Today facebook has destroyed usability in the name of addiction, with its randomised feeds, creating FOMO, and they know exactly what they're doing. They hid chronological post orders deep in some menus because they don't want users using them. Chronological order means you know what you've seen and what you haven't, and you can see if there's been nothing new since you last looked. Geocities didn't do that, ICQ didn't do that, Usenet didn't do that.

They're not the same, and we shouldn't treat them as if they are. They're a new challenge we have to tackle in a new way.

 

[highrider]

Err no he just posted a different opinion.

No he singled out something I said specifically to use as an example of intellectually lazy parenting, and he’s done it several times in the past in other threads. One thing I don’t like is when people act superior, and he’s a guy that apparently feels he needs to son me.