Virex
Banned
The combat isn't outdated or bad. It's just that you're bad at the combat
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Combat in Devil May Cry 5 feels very outdated
- Thread starter KINDERFELD
- Start date
Airbus Jr
Banned
The new one that came out a few months ago.
Seriously is there a new megaman game few months ago? This is a genuine question, because if that is true that game really flew over my radar
All these years from Capcom I only heard of Resident Evil 2 Remake and DMCV
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Yeah, Mega Man 11.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Did you utilize all the tricks that this video has:
You have to hold down a combination of buttons, charge your sword, and utilize his arms. I honestly think if you're just going to swing his sword and occasionally shoot then you might have always felt this way.
It's like not knowing how to throw a fireball or combo into a shoryuken in Street Fighter. You're essentially throwing punches, sometimes very whiffed punches, if you don't know how to utilize each character.
You have to hold down a combination of buttons, charge your sword, and utilize his arms. I honestly think if you're just going to swing his sword and occasionally shoot then you might have always felt this way.
It's like not knowing how to throw a fireball or combo into a shoryuken in Street Fighter. You're essentially throwing punches, sometimes very whiffed punches, if you don't know how to utilize each character.
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Tip_of_the_Hat
Member
I feel like the OP just didn't use the punch line properly. Outdated ≠ Riding a rocket arm
DreamsiclesPlz
Member
I remember renting whatever Resident Evil game came with the DMC demo for PS2 back in the day, JUST to play the demo. I was a cowardly little kid and had no desire to play the scary zombie game, I just wanted to be a sword-slinging badass.
If this goes back to the games roots, I'm very excited! The thought of more games playing like soulsborne games just sounds miserable.
If this goes back to the games roots, I'm very excited! The thought of more games playing like soulsborne games just sounds miserable.
kevin_trinh
Member
I hope they can add more lock on system where you can press r1 to lock on, press it again to unlock. My hand is tired after 30mins holding r1 to lock on.
Give an old man a choice
Give an old man a choice
Mr Branding
Member
Cybrwzrd
Banned
You keep mentioning God Of War. It isn’t even the same genre as DMC. Is this a shill thread?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Miku Miku I'm disappointed in you, DMC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DD any day of the week.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
No reason to change a perfect formula. Don’t give me souls like slow as hell combat, stay true to the old gameplay and only add a few little refinements.
OP doesn’t know how to play, needs someone to hold his hand to play DMC5.
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
I played the demo and simply realized why I didn't play a lot of DMC back in the day. Just not a fan of the combat, everything else is there however.
It's more of the same and that's not really a bad thing if you're big into DMC. At first lowkey I wanted to roast this game but it's me and not the game. Just take the L and move on, I'm happy people are getting what they want. Think the direction this game is taking is a good one.
The audio is garbage I'd say, how the fuck do you have an absolute banger of a battle theme that you shill in trailers and promo shit & in game you can barely hear it? What the FUCK. This was on max sound too btw in game.
It's more of the same and that's not really a bad thing if you're big into DMC. At first lowkey I wanted to roast this game but it's me and not the game. Just take the L and move on, I'm happy people are getting what they want. Think the direction this game is taking is a good one.
The audio is garbage I'd say, how the fuck do you have an absolute banger of a battle theme that you shill in trailers and promo shit & in game you can barely hear it? What the FUCK. This was on max sound too btw in game.
Helios
Member
I think that depends on your rank. Lower rank has a lower volume music and no vocals. I haven't played the demo but from what I remember the vocals start kicking once you reach S rank.
bilderberg
Member
Devil May "everyone who dislikes the game is shit" Cry. DMC fans continuing to be a meme.
Shifty
Member
Repetitious is a pretty reductive way to frame a series with combat deep enough to function as a form of self-expression. That makes it sound like every fight is the same.
Do you consider fighting games repetitive?
Poor argumentation is poor argumentation, this thread would be less of a joke if OP had actually presented a case past "I don't like it but god of war was good therefore it's old news".
You're using the fact that OP is (poorly) criticizing DMCV as a crutch for generalization, get out of here with that shit.
Grinding to max level in an RPG is in no way comparable to buying parts of a moveset over the course of a comparatively short character action game.
The idea is to gradually introduce players to their character's kit over the course of a playthrough so they're comfortable with it and ready for the higher difficulties by the time everything is unlocked.
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Lionel Richie
Member
I mean, OP unfavorably compared DMC combat to God of War 2018, the cooldown management game that had to put literal arrows on your character because you could see shit around you.
For Devil May Cry sure, but there is a game of this genre that did it before DMC5 or Bayonetta: Chaos Legion(which was also developed and published by Capcom).
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I actually really like NieR Automata's core combat. You can be very creative with your combos using Pod programs.
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MisterBrimstone
Member
Guys please fucking chill it with bashing the dude's opinion. That's that this forum is for.
If you liked the demo good for you, grow the hell up.
If you liked the demo good for you, grow the hell up.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
If his not in to combat then thats fine, thats his taste but calling "outdated" is complete BS. Its same stupid argument I heard against turned based combat, because they personally don't like its considered "outdated".
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I thought the same thing. I was hoping the game would get a reboot like god of war but they just doubled down on the existing systems. thats good for hardcore fans of the series but i think this demo will turn off a lot of people who were willing to give the series another shot.
OMG I totally forgot about that game. I was obsessed with it and must have finished it like 10 times back in the day. But you're right, it is similar. I think with V you have each button mapped to different beasts. Maybe if V is super popular they can do a chaos-legion-esque spinoff.
Vampire On Titus
Member
C
This forum ls full of hypster and controversial opinions, the most of which from xbox players.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Comparing DMC to fighting games is complete nonsense and grasping for straws. Especially modern fighting games.
Nobody's "bashing" the dude. Get real.
No, actually it's "overrated" and "overhyped" anytime I see a thread title about X popular game being "overrated" I can't mash the Ignore Function fucking fast enough.
No, actually it's "overrated" and "overhyped" anytime I see a thread title about X popular game being "overrated" I can't mash the Ignore Function fucking fast enough.
How is it nonsense? Please explain.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I find it odd when people take this stance wirh something as harmless as the current thread, as opposed to much more incendiary threads.
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Yeah, those are empty terms, too.
KINDERFELD
Banned
It would serve a lot of you in here to look up the meaning of the word "outdated".
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Fbh
Member
I don't understand what you are referring to.
If it's about the difficulty then nothing is "hidden away". You will be able to select different difficulty levels when you play for the first time and it's reasonable to expect that in some of them enemies won't just stand around as they do in the demo, making the combat more exciting.
If it's about the skills and moves then I don't see anything outdated about it. Most games have a progression system where you unlock more moves and skills as you play. Of course the combat should be fun even before you unlock everything but IMO it was already fun in the demo and once you add more moves, weapons, skills and characters it's only going to get better
Shifty
Member
You make that claim, and yet you do precisely nothing to back it up or refute my statement.
Meanwhile I'm over here sitting on a veritable treasure trove of verifiable evidence:
- The extensive movelist that's deep enough for each player to develop their own individual style
- The degree of input complexity
- The core player / enemy state system being comparable to modern fighters with things such as neutral, grounded, juggled, wallsplat, wallbounce, groundbounce, OTG, etc. etc. etc
- Shared mechanical fundamentals in the form of animation and framedata knowledge
- The importance of spacing and positioning for pulling off precise combo extensions
- The multiple characters with significantly different toolsets, tactics and gamefeel
- Extensive aerial game as per modern fighting games
- Defensive gameplay in the form of royal guard
- Just-frame mechanics that reward input skill with improved offense or defense
- Devil Trigger being the equivalent of DBFZ Sparking / UMVC3 X-Factor / KI Instinct Mode
- The fact that DMCV now has a fighting game-style training mode for combo practice
- The way climactic rival fights such as Nelo Angelo, Vergil, and Shadow Dante actually resemble a fighting game in 3D
Heck, let's go a step further and post the definition in the thread for all to see:
DMC is neither of these things, and you still haven't actually presented any reasoning to argue the contrary.Oxford English Dictionary said:
Stay salty, OP.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
You guys got to stop these desperate comparisons.
Fighting games have several characters with heavy variety and different ways to play against the other mass of characters. That's before getting into other mechanics.
DMC is a generic repetitious action game with some characters with variety but for chunks of the game you do similar things until you get those variations. Doesn't mean the combat is bad, but one reason why this is a niche style is because it's repetitious.
Some people like that style, some gaffers clearly do. Some don't, but pretending the games are a lot deeper than it really is just pushes people away because your basically insulting peoplespeoples intelligence.
When you make bulletpoint lists with things like "input complexity" which means nothing out of context, there's clearly something wrong. It's always some weird list that I can use back at you with another genre listing the same stuff, or desperately claiming the users never played the game/series before without even knowing if that's true.
This thread reads just like those Legend of Spyro threads back in the day. While DMC is clearly superior to TLoS mechanically and in gameplay they both have similar problems people don't want to admit.
Add the fact DMC is not really innovating and playing safe, theres really no reason to be surprised at people calling the gameplay outdated when there's been no real revolution in this gameplay style for some time.
I can't wait for the Dynasty Warrrior threads next, all the beat am/hack em like franchises with cult followings all do the same thing:
Compare to fighting games
Shoot down all mentions of flaws
Overexaggerrate how deep the mechanics are.
Blame non fans for not understanding the game. Or say ganers are too dumb to play a game of repetition than go "lol probably COD players" when even core gamers aren't big fans of the genre.
Basically doing as much as possible to turn interested players away. (Also half the user aboves list arent evidence but just opinions or odd game comparisons with no context. So unless your someone like me that knows the lingo the list means nothing.)
Fighting games have several characters with heavy variety and different ways to play against the other mass of characters. That's before getting into other mechanics.
DMC is a generic repetitious action game with some characters with variety but for chunks of the game you do similar things until you get those variations. Doesn't mean the combat is bad, but one reason why this is a niche style is because it's repetitious.
Some people like that style, some gaffers clearly do. Some don't, but pretending the games are a lot deeper than it really is just pushes people away because your basically insulting peoplespeoples intelligence.
When you make bulletpoint lists with things like "input complexity" which means nothing out of context, there's clearly something wrong. It's always some weird list that I can use back at you with another genre listing the same stuff, or desperately claiming the users never played the game/series before without even knowing if that's true.
This thread reads just like those Legend of Spyro threads back in the day. While DMC is clearly superior to TLoS mechanically and in gameplay they both have similar problems people don't want to admit.
Add the fact DMC is not really innovating and playing safe, theres really no reason to be surprised at people calling the gameplay outdated when there's been no real revolution in this gameplay style for some time.
I can't wait for the Dynasty Warrrior threads next, all the beat am/hack em like franchises with cult followings all do the same thing:
Compare to fighting games
Shoot down all mentions of flaws
Overexaggerrate how deep the mechanics are.
Blame non fans for not understanding the game. Or say ganers are too dumb to play a game of repetition than go "lol probably COD players" when even core gamers aren't big fans of the genre.
Basically doing as much as possible to turn interested players away. (Also half the user aboves list arent evidence but just opinions or odd game comparisons with no context. So unless your someone like me that knows the lingo the list means nothing.)
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Tip_of_the_Hat
Member
I would hold my tongue further in this matter but the very idea that OP is comparing God of War (2018) to new DMC is kinda hard to ingore whilst using the term 'outdated'. DMC (DmC) has always had the same-ish combat mechanics throughout as not only was it received well but even during a generational leap it still worked and in order for it to not become outdated, Capcom didn't change up the combat (pretty much a staple in DMC) but instead created new ways to use those combat mechanics through alternate playable characters such as Vergil and Nero. Meanwhile on the other side the full-on emotional walk and feelsathon that is the new God of War; whilst it has many merits I would give it, decided to change its approach from giant crowd control hacky-slashy platforming to slow clunky combat that pretty much gives the player tons of outs at the cost of taking alot of the fun out of it through cooldowns and big red arrows. God of War may have changed its combat because it felt outdated but don't feel that DMC needs to adhere to peoples opinions that its combat is outdated when the term 'outdated' can be completely subjective and opinionated. I've heard many a people comment solely on the DMC jumping as feeling very restricted and I completely agree, but I've never heard of them saying the combat is outdated.
Also whilst we're here let's list some of the new stuff that we can glean from the ps4 demo (the sole one I've played):
- New camera - this one is no longer restricted to moving cameras that would follow the current protag as a distance and then suddenly change angles, instead its close behind protag until they move (at which it goes slightly away to allow that fun exploration we all love) or combat starts (at which it goes a suitable distance away, not to much so we can still everything but not to close that it makes you practically blind).
- Devil Breaker system - this is literally the first time they've touched this system since its first iteration in DMC4, and I love this system. Sure losing the current Devil Breaker equipped sucks but not only does it incentivize you to not be so reckless as to waste it, it also gives you multiple different options to work with (punch line right now is a personal favourite) and to approach with.
- Fresh coat of paint - Sure when earlier OP stated that it feels like an old game with a fresh coat of paint I agree (at least on the coat of paint part). This new style not only makes the game look unique from it's predecessors more cartoon/anime-esque style, it also allowed the team working on it to make many different parts that were in previous games look brand new; not only looking it but feeling it. When I was running at the enemy with my pistol being charged; at first I expected it to start glowing blue like in DMC4 but then I saw Nero reloading it by hand, with two different reloading animations for when he has a devil breaker or not. It feels like a lot of dedication has gone into the games style that even makes the old parts feel new and refreshing. These new more grounded touches make this game feel way better due to the way the old games toyed around with all those magic glows and whatnot. In those games the protags were always there to keep everything above note and feeling fun in less-than enjoyable circumstances and these new touches that bring DMC mayhem closer to reality make it all the more better
So with what you can say about DMC being outdated I say "When was it ever?". Sure all of the games are similar but that's because DMC already had a really fleshed out system that only needed tweaks that could only really be added in sequels and Capcom already knew which direction to go in after DMC2.
tl;dr - DMC isn't outdated; it's OPs tastes
Also whilst we're here let's list some of the new stuff that we can glean from the ps4 demo (the sole one I've played):
- New camera - this one is no longer restricted to moving cameras that would follow the current protag as a distance and then suddenly change angles, instead its close behind protag until they move (at which it goes slightly away to allow that fun exploration we all love) or combat starts (at which it goes a suitable distance away, not to much so we can still everything but not to close that it makes you practically blind).
- Devil Breaker system - this is literally the first time they've touched this system since its first iteration in DMC4, and I love this system. Sure losing the current Devil Breaker equipped sucks but not only does it incentivize you to not be so reckless as to waste it, it also gives you multiple different options to work with (punch line right now is a personal favourite) and to approach with.
- Fresh coat of paint - Sure when earlier OP stated that it feels like an old game with a fresh coat of paint I agree (at least on the coat of paint part). This new style not only makes the game look unique from it's predecessors more cartoon/anime-esque style, it also allowed the team working on it to make many different parts that were in previous games look brand new; not only looking it but feeling it. When I was running at the enemy with my pistol being charged; at first I expected it to start glowing blue like in DMC4 but then I saw Nero reloading it by hand, with two different reloading animations for when he has a devil breaker or not. It feels like a lot of dedication has gone into the games style that even makes the old parts feel new and refreshing. These new more grounded touches make this game feel way better due to the way the old games toyed around with all those magic glows and whatnot. In those games the protags were always there to keep everything above note and feeling fun in less-than enjoyable circumstances and these new touches that bring DMC mayhem closer to reality make it all the more better
So with what you can say about DMC being outdated I say "When was it ever?". Sure all of the games are similar but that's because DMC already had a really fleshed out system that only needed tweaks that could only really be added in sequels and Capcom already knew which direction to go in after DMC2.
tl;dr - DMC isn't outdated; it's OPs tastes
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
You don't like the game, you do not enjoy the gameplay. That is all it is and your continued claim of "repetitive" is purely subjective - not the objective viewpoint you so desperately want to portray.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Did you just freaking compare DMC to Dynasty Warrior? Tell me you didn't!
Tons of fans of DMC5 btw, this game will have no problems selling tons of copies.
Nothing in Bayonetta 2 or Nier Automata that feels deeper than what we are getting in DMC5, and neither in God of War. In fact I'd call God of War reboot's combat a clear step back from the original series as it is far less involved and dynamic as it once was.
It's not because something is different that it is necessarily an evolution. DMC5 refines the combat and tries to perfect it, although it is something hard to do considering DMC3 is still the best imo. Better for them to focus on the other aspects of the game and leave what was already perfect the way it is.
You are probably one of those people who thinks games like Nioh are hard and shit, yet Ninja Gaiden back in the days had faster paced and more technical combat and it was a much harder game, so much more satisfying when you mastered it.
There is nothing repetitive in these types of games, it's not like you can just rush in on enemies and do the same button presses over and over and just win. If that's what you then you clearly haven't played a DMC game before.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Thanks for proving my point you guys are incapable of accepting perspectives outside the cult line and immediately go to "you havent played the game" or "you probably think x is hard".
Btw I never once mentioned DMCs difficulty, you're just desperately trying to pretend the series has no flaws and everyone just "doesn't understand". It's mostly with fans of this niche as well.
If you want more games like this and want them to grow you're going to have to do better than this.
The issue with DMC and similar games is simply it's repetitious. For some reason some of you want to overly simplify repetition to only mean smashing the same buttonover and over, you can do that but that's just trying to shift reality aroind so you don't accept some people don't like this gameplay style.
I havent even given my opinion on the demo yet, but I did go after the OP in my initial post a bit which was conveniently ignored, huh.......
Gavon West
Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Rhazer Fusion
Member
All of the God of Wars combined still do not have the depth of DMC3, let alone DMC4 and DMC5.
Shifty
Member
Keep using those big emphasis words. Makes your argument stronger, see.
The character-versus-character nature is a core difference, yes. The equivalent on the character action side being a variety of AI enemies with their own behaviours, tactics, strengths and weaknesses. Bosses too.
DMC can be repetitious if you don't make an attempt to learn the character-specific mechanics, or more than the basic mash combo and stinger for each weapon.
Claiming it is repetitious is ignoring its depth based on some preconception that you have the game figured out.
Now, far be it from me to attempt to undermine your right to opine on DMC by accusing you of not having played the games, but it's beginning to sound like you're trying to speak authoritatively on a subject that you don't have a full grasp of.
Sounds like someone has never seen donguri990 in action.
Would you have preferred I presented the points within that list as flowing prose in iambic pentameter?
Nice cherry-picking as well. To elaborate on input complexity: When the inputs required for proper play are complex, including but not limited to strings of combo inputs, mode-shift buttons that contextually change functionality (ex. lock on > stinger), buttons that change functionality based on your character's state (buster, style switching), the requirement of precise timing, and so forth.
You may also know the term as "execution-heavy" in the context of fighting games.
And I'd like to know what this ominous "something wrong" you're waving about is supposed to be outside of a weak attempt to cast my character into doubt with the intent of taking my argument down a peg.
Sorry, but I'm not writing out a lengthy analysis just for you. Bullet points are compact and get the point across just fine.
Unless you just dismiss them as a "weird list", that is. Classy.
'desparate' again, you like that word don't you?
Go ahead and quote the post where I stooped to such tactics. As for the other people doing it, they could probably stand to bump their level of discourse up a notch or two.
Literally who
Vagueries, vagueries everywhere.
Do explain. You know, rather than continuing to throw out meaninglesss one-liners.
Oh, oh, I can guess this one!
Is it "make sweeping generalizations under the misguided notion that it will make for a strong argument"?
Character Action being the only hack-and-slash / beat 'em up sub/adjacent genre that can actually make that claim and argue it effectively.
If an argument is flawed then it will be shot down. Welcome to discourse on a public enthusiast forum.
Now if you want to make a criticism that is well-reasoned and backed by actual evidence, then this thing called a good discussion might happen. Those are rare and precious.
Proof, if you would be so kind, that DMC is not as deep as people claim it is.
Not understanding is perfectly acceptable. Not understanding, making no attempt to understand, and then bitching about it rather than simply moving on, less so.
Go on, let it all out. Tell us how you really feel.
Thaaaat's better.
Now, about that fact that you're still dodging my question...
Alright, we're getting somewhere. By negative inference, we now know that your definition of 'repetitious' in the context of DMC involves more than mashing a single button.
Now if you would only deign to share the rest of it with the thread
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Helios
Member
You come here, say dumb shit than complain that people don't agree with you and generalize the whole thread. You take the fighting game comparison out of context and try to make it your main point when you realize you don't know what you're talking about. People still give you the benefit of the doubt, they respond to you and you come here with this reply basically telling everyone "yeah well,that's just like ,your opinion, man". Also you don't need to do
this
after
every
sentence
you
are
not
on
Reddit.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I agree with you and this coming from someone who enjoyed God of War. In my opinion, when it comes to hack & Slash games western developers not even close to Japanese developers and especially these days when western developers far more interested making their games more "grounded" and "realistic" for sake of "immersion" while Japanese developers far more interested giving us fun and engaging gameplay.
Meted
Member
You still have to lower the other in game sounds to make the background music loud enough for my taste (yes i have gotten SSS rank before someone tells me i need to be better at the game to hear the vocals)
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