Support NeoGAF

[JordanN]

He brings up "mind blowing tech demos" but funny enough, there haven't actually been a lot of tech demos released lately.

Even before the PS4/XBO came out, I remember when Epic Games was floating around their "Samaritan" prototype and begging MS/Sony to aim for those specs.

Neither company did, so why should I believe the PS5/next Xbox will be any different?

 

[Silver Wattle]

Fake as hell, my made up specs in another next gen thread are more believable than this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

PS3 was also supposed to launch in Q1 2006 before it got delayed.

I bet the PS4 would have launched at the same time as well. Both Microsoft and Sony for some reason we're battling for the November spot and I don't think either one was going to let the other have it alone.

Both system's firmware and features screamed that they just barely got them out for the consumer retail level.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

LOL. Reduce the GDDR 6 ram to 8g-12 gb and the TF to about 10 and it's a worthwhile rumour to believe.

 

[TLZ]

Sounds about right.

 

[onQ123]

LOL. Reduce the GDDR 6 ram to 8g-12 gb and the TF to about 10 and it's a worthwhile rumour to believe.

Why would 8 or 12GB be more believable than 20 or 24GB? in 2020? you really think Sony would release a PS5 6 - 7 years after the PS4 with the same amount of RAM?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Why would 8 or 12GB be more believable than 20 or 24GB? in 2020? you really think Sony would release a PS5 6 - 7 years after the PS4 with the same amount of RAM?

Different ram. Same amount does more than GDDR 5.

That's like why do CPUs max out at around 3-4 ghz for probably 10 years.

 

[dolabla]

Boooooooo!!! That guy hasn't come back with the goods yet at the beyond3d forum. We need this thing confirmed.

 

[onQ123]

Different ram. Same amount does more than GDDR 5.

That's like why do CPUs max out at around 3-4 ghz for probably 10 years.

8GB of GDDR6 wouldn't be much different from 8GB of GDDR5

 

[Pimpbaa]

LOL. Reduce the GDDR 6 ram to 8g-12 gb and the TF to about 10 and it's a worthwhile rumour to believe.

A PS5 with only 8GB of ram is as about as ridiculous as saying it will come with 64GB. Unless you are ok with games having textures no better than current gen.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A PS5 with only 8GB of ram is as about as ridiculous as saying it will come with 64GB. Unless you are ok with games having textures no better than current gen.

PS4 Pro basically had a CPU speed bump and faster ram and it went from 1.8tf to 4.2tf. Same cpus and ram.

Give PS5 a better cpu (all this Ryzan stuff), a better gpu, and higher quality ram (even if it's still 8 gb), and 10 tf might still be doable.

 

[Pimpbaa]

PS4 Pro basically had a CPU speed bump and faster ram and it went from 1.8tf to 4.2tf. Same cpus and ram.

Give PS5 a better cpu (all this Ryan stuff), a better gpu, and higher quality ram (even if it's still 8 gb), and 10 tf might still be doable.

More bandwidth isn't going to make the already cramped 8GB on current consoles less cramped on this hypothetical super gimped PS5. Games that take advantage of the extra ram in the xbox one x already show that more ram helps (higher res textures for 4k).

 

[onQ123]

PS4 Pro basically had a CPU speed bump and faster ram and it went from 1.8tf to 4.2tf. Same cpus and ram.

Give PS5 a better cpu (all this Ryan stuff), a better gpu, and higher quality ram (even if it's still 8 gb), and 10 tf might still be doable.

PS4 Pro was just that PS4 Pro , it basically used the die shrink that brings a new slim design to double the GPU size. PS5 will be a new console.

 

[bitbydeath]

PS4 Pro basically had a CPU speed bump and faster ram and it went from 1.8tf to 4.2tf. Same cpus and ram.

Give PS5 a better cpu (all this Ryzan stuff), a better gpu, and higher quality ram (even if it's still 8 gb), and 10 tf might still be doable.

10TF is also on the low-end.
That’s something I’d expect from 2018.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

More bandwidth isn't going to make the already cramped 8GB on current consoles less cramped on this hypothetical super gimped PS5. Games that take advantage of the extra ram in the xbox one x already show that more ram helps (higher res textures for 4k).

You never now until it comes out as a new system.

Some video cards the past few years came out in 2 or 3 gb configs. Pretty sure it can run laps around my laptop GPU which is a 4 gb spec from 2011.

 

[onQ123]

Look like this little rumor broke Beyond 3D lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

10TF is also on the low-end.
That’s something I’d expect from 2018.

That's not the way consoles work. You aren't going to get PS5 or Xbox X2 with GPUs and TF battling Nvidia's top cards, and definitely not Nvidia cards in 2020.

 

[Pimpbaa]

That's not the way consoles work.

You literally do not how consoles work. You are just spouting absolute nonsense.

 

[thelastword]

Why would 8 or 12GB be more believable than 20 or 24GB? in 2020? you really think Sony would release a PS5 6 - 7 years after the PS4 with the same amount of RAM?

At this point if anyone believes PS5 is going to release with 8-12Gb's, they might as well buy an XBONEX with 12Gbs from 2017.....Also 10TF is not going to cut it for next gen.....Not at 4k and next gen graphics...

 

[bitbydeath]

That's not the way consoles work. You aren't going to get PS5 or Xbox X2 with GPUs and TF battling Nvidia's top cards, and definitely not Nvidia cards in 2020.

12-14TF won’t be battling Nvidias top cards in 2020.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You literally do not how consoles work. You are just spouting absolute nonsense.

And Xbox and PS systems have sure given top end PC cpus and gpus a run for its money. lol

 

[Pimpbaa]

And Xbox and PS systems have sure given top end PC cpus and gpus a run for its money. lol

Ahh yes, I'm sure everyone with a high end PC is running with medium to low settings.

 

[TheGreatYosh]

The 12 to 14 tf is disappointing. I was thinking 16 before the PS4 Pro. Other than that, sounds great.

 

[TLZ]

Look like this little rumor broke Beyond 3D lol

It isn't working for me too.

The 12 to 14 tf is disappointing. I was thinking 16 before the PS4 Pro. Other than that, sounds great.

Man if we get 14tf I'll be ecstatic.

 

[LOLCats]

No floppy disk drive, pre-order cancelled.

 

[Negotiator]

"Shame and pain" for whom exactly? Weird choice of words to say the least...

 

[Negotiator]

with an 8 core £200-£300 cpu

Your math is off.

Ryzen 1700 (Zen 1 @ 3 GHz) costs less than €170 right now... and that's a 14nm chip. Die size will be smaller at 7nm and they will exploit economies of scale (binned chiplets).

Console APUs cost $100-110, they have a die size over 340mm2 and they include both a CPU and a GPU. PC APUs tend to have smaller die sizes and yet, they cost more.

 

[The Alien]

I dunno. Some could be close. It's a dev kit so it wont be exact.

But I doubt they'll release it in Q1 or Q2.

• Just missed the biggest shopping window of the year.
• They have a lot of infrastructure work they need to do. I dont think they are only 10-11 months away.

 

[onQ123]

At this point if anyone believes PS5 is going to release with 8-12Gb's, they might as well buy an XBONEX with 12Gbs from 2017.....Also 10TF is not going to cut it for next gen.....Not at 4k and next gen graphics...

10TF actually would cut it though. The difference between 10 & 12 TF isn't going to be that noticeable. at that point the changes in the GPU & extra hardware would make more of a difference than a extra 20% in GPU speed.


if the CPU is clocked at 3.2Ghz with 8 cores / 16 threads and wide vector instructions it's going to make more of a difference next gen than the GPU flops .

 

[bitbydeath]

I dunno. Some could be close. It's a dev kit so it wont be exact.

But I doubt they'll release it in Q1 or Q2.

• Just missed the biggest shopping window of the year.
• They have a lot of infrastructure work they need to do. I dont think they are only 10-11 months away.

On the other hand though consoles launching in November always sell out which limits how much they can sell in that period. Launching in March/April will give them two Christmas like periods in a year with the early buyers picking it up at launch.

 

[Imtjnotu]

No floppy disk drive, pre-order cancelled.

Gotta wait for the PS5 retro

 

[c0de]

I remember shamepain and a "conduit" poster from GAF before, on the next gen racing thread, they were pretty informative guys...

Oh yeah, they are both permabanned because of their valuable input and quality posts!

 

[thelastword]

10TF actually would cut it though. The difference between 10 & 12 TF isn't going to be that noticeable. at that point the changes in the GPU & extra hardware would make more of a difference than a extra 20% in GPU speed.


if the CPU is clocked at 3.2Ghz with 8 cores / 16 threads and wide vector instructions it's going to make more of a difference next gen than the GPU flops .

I think the CPU will make a huge difference even in a 10TF configuration, but 10TF will just not push that level of visuals we expect especially at 4K next gen...I think 10 TF will push current gen looking games nicely at 4k 60fps with a Zen CPU, but we will need more ooomph on the GPU side for PS5 to feel like a huge step up.......

 

[bitbydeath]

10TF actually would cut it though. The difference between 10 & 12 TF isn't going to be that noticeable. at that point the changes in the GPU & extra hardware would make more of a difference than a extra 20% in GPU speed.


if the CPU is clocked at 3.2Ghz with 8 cores / 16 threads and wide vector instructions it's going to make more of a difference next gen than the GPU flops .

10 and 12 is small but if one went cheap at 10 and the other more expensive at 14 then the difference would be much more noticeable.

VR needs all the power it can get which I’m sure will feed into the specs that Sony plans to deliver.

 

[Negotiator]

What happened to Beyond3D?

You aren't going to get PS5 or Xbox X2 with GPUs and TF battling Nvidia's top cards

Prepare to eat some crow then, considering the fact that Navi will be much more efficient than Vega.

I think the CPU will make a huge difference even in a 10TF configuration, but 10TF will just not push that level of visuals we expect especially at 4K next gen...I think 10 TF will push current gen looking games nicely at 4k 60fps with a Zen CPU, but we will need more ooomph on the GPU side for PS5 to feel like a huge step up.......

Jaguar 1.6 GHz -> Zen 3.2 GHz bump is 3x single-threaded performance (2x clocks, +50% IPC bump).

A decent upgrade, but not the same thing as the EE 300 MHz -> Cell 3.2 GHz bump.

Regarding GPU/Tflops, Cerny said that you need 8TF for 4K (GCN flops efficiency), not 4K at 60 fps. 4k60 will probably require something closer to 12TF as the bare minimum.

What Navi desperately needs is tiled rendering. nVidia has it since the Maxwell era. That's what drives power consumption down (less memory access to the power hungry GDDR pool).

https://www.techpowerup.com/231129/on-nvidias-tile-based-rendering

There's a rumor that Navi will integrate more SRAM compared to previous GCN iterations... maybe that could boost efficiency. Turing has 6MB of L2 (and that is directly connected to the ROPs for tiling purposes).

Last but not least, Sony needs a decent cooling solution (vapor chamber + Nidec fan plz)! PS4 stock cooling solution + Delta fan needs to go away! That's the only way to increase clocks by a decent amount and possibly reach ~14TF.

 

[thelastword]

What happened to Beyond3D?


Prepare to eat some crow then, considering the fact that Navi will be much more efficient than Vega.


Jaguar 1.6 GHz -> Zen 3.2 GHz bump is 3x single-threaded performance (2x clocks, +50% IPC bump).

A decent upgrade, but not the same thing as the EE 300 MHz -> Cell 3.2 GHz bump.

Regarding GPU/Tflops, Cerny said that you need 8TF for 4K (GCN flops efficiency), not 4K at 60 fps. 4k60 will probably require something closer to 12TF as the bare minimum.

What Navi desperately needs is tiled rendering. nVidia has it since the Maxwell era. That's what drives power consumption down (less memory access to the power hungry GDDR pool).

https://www.techpowerup.com/231129/on-nvidias-tile-based-rendering

There's a rumor that Navi will integrate more SRAM compared to previous GCN iterations... maybe that could boost efficiency. Turing has 6MB of L2 (and that is directly connected to the ROPs for tiling purposes).

Last but not least, Sony needs a decent cooling solution (vapor chamber + Nidec fan plz)! PS4 stock cooling solution + Delta fan needs to go away! That's the only way to increase clocks by a decent amount and possibly reach ~14TF.

Well since he mentioned 10TF, I think current gen games could be done at 4K and 60fps with Zen and such a GPU.....Some good thoughts, but I think we should not under-estimate multi-GPU's on future consoles either......Navi is an entirely new architecture and I think they are focused on much lower power draw and better efficiency......There's a reason there was so much R&D and money pumped into Navi development......Even Raja felt shortchanged on Vega development as a result..

 

[Ovech-King]

After replaying God of War on the Pro, I believe that they can achieve a lot with not too crazy specs. For instance, God of war looks mindblowing and perform like a dreams even with dozens of particules on screen with a near 4k resolution. 30 fps 8 gb gddr5 total

If the PS5 still have a shared pool for CPU and GPU , the Ryzen will already give it a major boost (2.1 ghz to 3.2 ghz and 16 threads instead of 8) . Therefore GPU I think 16 gb gddr6 total is to be expected to contain the price at 500$ US Max . This leak sounds plausible enough because it's boosted specs like a devkit should be just like the Xbox One X devkit had 24 gb of ram

 

[scalman]

If we get better specs for 100 more bucks. Im in. You buy console one time for many years so its worth it.
But it better be better jump then just to 4k/60fps. I mean all new physics damage rayctracing and other new stuff that we need. Not just better textures and fps.
If its just like pc gtx 1060 vs gtx 1080 then its worth nothing. You still can play same game on gtx 1060 just lower res and fps.

 

[bitbydeath]

Surprised the site is still down. Crashed it good.

 

[demigod]

Personally, i'm going in with

 

[Norse]

Specs look great. Only time will tell how legit they are, but it's fun to read this stuff. I'm still wondering if Sony and Microsoft are going all out next gen or if they feel the need to keep next gen launch systems close enough to 1X and PS4 pro as to continue with mid gen "pro" upgrades. I hope they both go all out at launch and do pro upgrades after yr 4 or 5. Oh, and $499 Max at launch March 2020.

 

[c0de]

What happened to Beyond3D?

IP addresses (v4 and v6) are reachable fine, seems like a misconfiguration on the server side.

 

[Geki-D]

"i can prove it"

Well, keep us posted when he does. Till then this is pretty worthless. If he could post proof, he should have started with that.

 

[TLZ]

I think shamepain crashed the forums and ran for it

 

[Boss Mog]

2TB HDD already makes this more credible than any specs with SSDs.

 

[Kenpachii]

Lol you guys are delusional if you think this is the final setup. It makes zero sense. It's a pipe dream and maybe the new dev kit runs at 14 tflops with a radeon 7. but honestly that's just that.

AMD already pushed a 7nm card on the market at ~14 tflops and it pushes 320 watt in peak performance. Zero chance this thing is going to be 14 tflops in that box unless they build a mini PC which honestly aint going to happen for RMA reasons as these plastic boxes need to be bullet proof.

memory more then 16gb is going to be useless anyway, Sure textures could be a bit more crisp but honestly they could reboot a new console later down the lane and save money in the meanwhile to reduce the cost, 399 is going to be the absolute max here. They are better off investing the additional cash into some shitty form of SSD if there even is cash left.

8/16 ryzen makes zero sense. Why spend extra watt and room for 8/16 instead of 8/8 and push clocks on GPU forwards. The box is going to be heavily GPU limited no matter what. That ryzen will sit there being idle mostly. sorry but this generation titles you already need 8tflops to get 4k rolling, how are you going to hit 60 fps? and a graphical bump forwards? with magic? that's what it sounds like.

Unless AMD pulls a rabbit out of there hat that magically reduces the watt of there radeon 7 card which is highly unlikely this aint going to happen.

As far as it looks like now a more realistic guess is:
8/8 underclocked ryzen
16 gb ram at best
SSD ( if they can get some deal going ) otherwise some janky hdd again with upgrade possibility's
10 tflop gpu.

10TF actually would cut it though. The difference between 10 & 12 TF isn't going to be that noticeable. at that point the changes in the GPU & extra hardware would make more of a difference than a extra 20% in GPU speed.


if the CPU is clocked at 3.2Ghz with 8 cores / 16 threads and wide vector instructions it's going to make more of a difference next gen than the GPU flops .

Lol did you experience this generation?

GPU is all that matters.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I have an account on B3D too (different user name)

But no one makes a GAF thread when I post!

 

[c0de]

I have an account on B3D too (different user name)

But no one makes a GAF thread when I post!

You would have to be banned on GAF and make a favorable hardware specs post for PS5 so that the famous leaker and known tech authority onQ approves, though...

 

[Panajev2001a]

8/16 ryzen makes zero sense. Why spend extra watt and room for 8/16 instead of 8/8 and push clocks on GPU forwards. The box is going to be heavily GPU limited no matter what. That ryzen will sit there being idle mostly. sorry but this generation titles you already need 8tflops to get 4k rolling, how are you going to hit 60 fps? and a graphical bump forwards? with magic? that's what it sounds like.

Do you think that removing SMT support from a core is first cheap + good use of limited R&D and allow much higher clocks? Just turning it off means you lower the effective utilisation of each core in many workloads... and without removing the HW and reoptomising for it in a new layout that they would use nowhere else would buy them nothing. Beside pixel workload, ensuring the GPU never sits idle requires a fast CPU and to conserve power and allow to push clocks for the GPU higher requires the CPU to be able to “race to sleep” as fast and efficiently as possible. Boost clock up to 3.2 GHz and SMT achieve both goals.

 

[Moses85]

Sounds very beefy

If these specs are nearly true, we can exspect an even more powerful Xbox Two. There is zero chance Microsoft ever launch a weaker console than Sony’s.