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CJY
Banned
Oh cool, I'll take a look.
SonGoku
Member
Because in PC there wouldn't be an equal solution and if there is only a minority would have access to it.
For the record i don't think it will be a problem, PCs with SATA3 SSDs could just preload all assets on system DDR4. Next gen gaming PCs with 32GB+ of DDR4/5 will be more common.
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CJY
Banned
I don't know if you have seen this loading time demonstration?:
This is just an early technology demo, but from 40seconds onwards, you can see them speeding through the cityscape at an increasingly faster speed. I think the world in the demo is from Spider Man, but imagine an exclusive PS5-only Superman game where you are literally flying around Metropolis at super-sonic speeds. In this theoretical scenario, the super-fast data read speed of the PS5 will be utilised to stream data at speeds 5-10X faster that what the typical PC is capable of, or perhaps even what a high-end gaming PC is capable of.
My main point is just that Sony don't have to take PCs into consideration in designing the PS5, and while neither do MS with the NextBox, it makes sense that MS will, as they seem intent on effectively unifying and homogenising all their games and platforms into one singular "experience". Sony & MS are clearly diverging in their strategies going forward, and I'm not saying one is necessarily better than the other. Sony's approach might be more technologically superior, while overall being more niche than MS's expansive all-inclusive approach.
We'll just have to see in a few days at E3 whether MS will tout "super-fast read speeds". Right now, I believe they will be just going with standard tech that is readily available on PC to maximise compatibility. Again, let's just wait and see.
CJY
Banned
What "limitations" are you talking about?
onnextflix5
Member
What are ms thinking. launching 2 sku's has never worked. Why would anyone want too buy a next gen system that is weeker than last gen. I know it worked with xbox one s and x but they did not launch at the same time. No one will buy the weaker system. If ms had understood console gaming. They would thinking about 3 options.
1. launching at the same time as ps5 and the same price, around the same power
2. launching a year later with a lot more power then the ps5
3. launching at the same time as ps5 but with $100 cheaper if ps5 is $499.
1. launching at the same time as ps5 and the same price, around the same power
2. launching a year later with a lot more power then the ps5
3. launching at the same time as ps5 but with $100 cheaper if ps5 is $499.
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GermanZepp
Member
CJY
from the info i gather here, you both guys a talking about plausible scenarios. We just have to wait until Microsoft show more info. I believe that, (as much i would love the Ps5 to have a super cool unique feature SSSD super ssd) anything Sony can pull off Microsoft technically can pull off too. So the thing is like you both suggest, what strategy this companies are going to follow. Somewhere i read that MS is going for a Netflix approach and Sony an HBO approach in terms of exclusive content, being that Sony want high production values spread out in time exclusives. While MS unifies PC and Console and throw anything they have.
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ResilientBanana
Member
Any game developed for the console requires developers to use the XDK, right? Wouldn't that allow developers to easily port from PC to Console while also using the advantages of the console? Isn't that the whole point of the XDK?
Just because Sony has a leaked demo does not mean Microsoft wont have a similar solution. Console optimizations are not uncommon especially considering that third parties may also take advantage of this on PS5 but maybe not so much on PC. I don't see something like this limiting Xbox Exclusive games just because there is a PC version. This way of thinking would be rather biased.
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Journey
Banned
CJY
Banned
ResilientBanana
Member
Negotiator
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think MS has matched (or even surpassed?) PlayGo with Ready to Start/Fast Start (which is also AI-driven or something like that?).
Ar¢tos
Member
Xbox will also use ssd. The difference might be the tech used. Sony does have a patent about a custom controller+file system, and using chips directly on the board can remove the need for a pcie bus. We know these things about Sony, but we know nothing (for know) about ms potential approach, so all we can predict for them is a normal M2 nvme using a pcie4 bus.
Its more the lack of information about next Xbox that drives these predictions, things might change when we know more, at least until Sony gives more info again. It's like a ping pong ball moving between the sides of the table...
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It all depends what the top of MS wants for the Xbox Next and the Xbox brand going forward. We all KNOW, MS could design something similar. But does Nutella want them to is the question?
Ar¢tos
Member
Negotiator
Member
XBOX-branded Nutella would be a fine addition, haha!
CJY
Banned
You actually think I was saying that just because there's a leaked Sony video of next-gen fast loading that I was somehow suggesting that MS couldn't have this? How dense could you possibly be?
ResilientBanana
Member
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah some probably will just skip it for that very reason, yes.
ResilientBanana
Member
Wouldn't implementing it save time during play testing and development of the PS5 version of the game? Why would they avoid it, if it's a time saver among hundreds of developers? That just defies logic to me.
Aceofspades
Banned
No they haven't, Faststart was applied to some xbox download games last year, its exactly the same principle of Playgo implemented on PS4 since 2013. In the other hand Xbox Disc based games takes way longer than PS4 to start.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They'd have to code for the differences in system setup between the PS5 and many different scenarios of the PC. That cost money and it takes time.
Negotiator
Member
[E3-MS] Xbox FastStart: Start games 2x+ faster using machine learning
Did not see a thread for this but this is pretty exciting since games are getting bigger and bigger and taking longer to download and play. This uses ML to learn and get faster as the algorithm improves. Will be available in the June update. FastStart identifies which files are needed to begin...
Ready to Start = XB1 PlayGo equivalent (requires manual coding/management from the programmer)
FastStart = there's no PS4 equivalent, since it uses machine learning/it's automatic
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ethomaz
Banned
It is the same.[E3-MS] Xbox FastStart: Start games 2x+ faster using machine learning
Did not see a thread for this but this is pretty exciting since games are getting bigger and bigger and taking longer to download and play. This uses ML to learn and get faster as the algorithm improves. Will be available in the June update. FastStart identifies which files are needed to begin...www.neogaf.com
Ready to Start = XB1 PlayGo equivalent (requires manual coding/management from the programmer)
FastStart = there's no PS4 equivalent, since it uses machine learning/it's automatic
The game needs to be coded/management to work.
It needs to be separated in parts (files) to download so the machine learning choose which workable part to downloads first according with how the player is playing.
I will give you an simples and hypothetical example...
A game has two patch in simple player that refer to two different locations... at middle of the first chapter you choose a path that leads you to the Mars planet while the other option lead you to the Venus planet.
The developer coded/management the Mars planet mission and the Venus planet mission as being different downloaded parts (files).
First it is downloaded the first chapter (first files) of the game and the player start to play it... when it chooses which part (files) he will got the machine learning automatically choose to download the choices next chapter based in what the player choose (Mars or Venus).
Of course you can make the things more complex.
But the ideia is the same... the game needs to be coded/management in parts (files) to be downloaded separately exactly like Ready to Start... the difference here is that the download is not done in a preset sequence but choose by machine learnings which part will be downloaded next according with the gamer's playing data.
And of course... MS is making this coded/management of the parts (files) be automatically done by the SDK.
Sony's SDK already do that (the coded/management of the parts) since 2013... PlayGo is a feature level at SDK you don't need extra code/work to make it works.
The biggest difference between MS and Sony solution is how the next parts are choose to be downloaded... Sony is in a pre-defined sequence choose but the developer while MS is using a deep learning algorithm that will choose which parts will be downloaded next based on player's data.
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SonGoku
Member
You mean SDK right? xdk is intels thing
Next gen consoles and PCs yes because PCs will have enough power to brute force past anything
Next gen and current gen games no, unless you likit the scpe of your game to current gen
SSD, ram and cpu just aren't things you can't downscale.
Insane Metal
Member
72h until it is finally revealed.
CyberPanda
Banned
72h until it is finally revealed.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But that's an expensive PC though.
SonGoku
Member
True but its doable and i imagine that by 2022 its going to be a common gaming setup
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Tommy Fisher
Banned
Do we've any clue that next gen Xbox gonna be fully revealed in E3?72h until it is finally revealed.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
MS said it's 100% going to be talking all about it.
demigod
Member
Did they? I doubt they'll give out specs now.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Guess I missed the word "fully". Yeah they didn't say all that.
Imtjnotu
Member
nope.
vpance
Member
Wouldn't you still need to move the data to VRAM first?
Negotiator
Member
Expect specs, but not the actual box.
SonGoku
Member
Sure but the transfer speed between vram and system ram is far faster than any souped up SSD Sony/MS can cook so that won't be an issue.
| PCIe 3.0 | 32 GB/s |
| PCIe 4.0 | 64 GB/s |
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Negotiator
Member
Yeah, but APUs have custom, tightly-coupled buses (CPU <-> GPU).
SonGoku
Member
Im talking about the SSD only
PCs can make up for lack of super fast SSD by preloading assets on system ram
Barakov
Gold Member
Stop it. I already have a bad case of stiff nips.72h until it is finally revealed.
SonGoku
Member
Sony's patent seems focused on maxing out read speeds and its very custom
Game size is 100gb. It depends on constant streaming of assets at 4gb/sec.
What are you going to preload?
And where?
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