DemonCleaner
Member
cheers man, appreciate that!
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cheers man, appreciate that!
Mass Shift
Member
It's actually called foveated rendering, but yes it should be common for the 2nd generation of arriving vr headsets.
It's already on a few of vr devices. Vive Pro, Star VR, and Some other lesser known vr manufacturers. It's been discussed a lot at GDC.
It's great that Sony is going to have it, but to call it a breakthrough feature? Yeah I guess you could, but something that's been discussed as much and for as long as it has in the VR realm is a bit stretchy.
ANIMAL1975
Member
TeamGhobad
Banned
how much of the SoC will be used for RT? this is something we need to take into account.
xool
Member
I'm guessing close to 0% - ray tracing is primarily dot and cross products for intersection tests, and some other maths all of which are already fully supported in vector SIMD. (Much of it is mathematically equivalent to the coordinate transformations used for rotations etc)
Might get some specialized instructions (is "microcode" still a thing) that better support BVH/Octree/Scenegraph traversal . but I would expect that to be an ISA 'hole filling" exercise to avoid awkward code rather than major additions.
Not expecting discrete ray tracing units.
(off the top of my head) Assuming they have a plan for ray-tracing eg using each "stream processor" given a single ray to process on shared triangle data .. there might be specialised instructions to collective poll the stream processors (for intersection) and send that info back as flag or register of flags to the CU .. the transistor cost for this is minimal in the scheme of things.. there also might be specialized compare instructions for ray coherency sorting (again not a huge transistor budget)
afaik Texture Mapping Units and Render Output Units can't be used to help with ray tracing .. maybe I'm just wrong .. could be some tweaks here but ihavenoidea what
..Or the plan might be to utilize current AMD compute ability for ray tracing and add no extra hardware .. but talk it up anyway ..
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Haven't seen this posted here yet.
ResilientBanana
Member
Awesome, now I can see the crazies.
Darius87
Member
i don't think so, i remember reading somewhere that ps5 is not navi 10, which would makes sense because navi 10 lacks RT and doesn't perform really well in 4K.
TeamGhobad
Banned
Pointless clickbait video from this guy. Scarlett will have a SSD, apparently. And a disc drive. Did you know that SSDs can improve load times and streaming performance?
sonomamashine
Member
What a time to be alive.
ethomaz
Banned
Well some youtubers still says Xbox One has a dGPU hidden waiting to unleash it power.
In Youtuver's minds Scarlett can have everything.
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DemonCleaner
Member
indeed they are!
threads up!
Simulating Gonzalo (Rumoured NextGen/PS5 leak)
This thread is work in progress First things first: I'm not saying Gonzalo is PS5, it might be! I'm not suggesting this simulated Gonzalo is equivalent to PS5's power in games, this thread is about how much computational power you can put in a console size box and not how efficient you can...
Brilliant but could we lock the gpu clock, instead of capping its upper limit. Thanks!!indeed they are!
threads up!
Simulating Gonzalo (Rumoured NextGen/PS5 leak)
This thread is work in progress First things first: I'm not saying Gonzalo is PS5, it might be! I'm not suggesting this simulated Gonzalo is equivalent to PS5's power in games, this thread is about how much computational power you can put in a console size box and not how efficient you can...www.neogaf.com
SonGoku
Member
Not much, Nvidia's only takes 8% per core. AMD hybrid solution is supposed to take less transistors
Don't know about AI hw though.
Lort
Banned
Is that why it makes the performance tank?
SonGoku
Member
RT in general is very resource intensive, i expect devs to use it sparingly in consoles in scenarios where it excels (shadows, AO, lightning, reflections) without taking too much of a performance hit
sonomamashine
Member
Lol 5.8Tf (24CU) really goku
SonGoku
Member
So demoncleaners thread
lol I wanted to be inclusive of all points of view
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Gonzalo has always been Navi 10 Lite and Zen 2. The real question is whether it's PS5.
Fake
Member
Or Xbox 2?
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Playstation has precedence with testing on Fire Strike. I believe MS uses PIX Profiling tool for that same purpose. Could be an advanced Chinese console like SuborZ+. Apisak thinks it's PS5.
SonGoku
Member
Yeah, its the next gen console bit that i consider speculation. Can't wait for the reveal
More likely Suborz or the discarded lockart
Gonzalo GPU performance is not enough for next gen 4k gaming
Im starting to believe apisak and komachi are pushing their ps5 speculation for clicks/attention
ps5 generates much more traffic than a random no name brand
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Fake
Member
Hum.. But they probably will look familiar in the final build APU.
sonomamashine
Member
Either way, we have a guesstimate of what next gen can deliver and its not that bad, anything above would be golden, skies the limit sangoku .
Rdna2 - navi 20 is possible but unlikely, i would love it to be true, just dosent make sense economicly for SONY.
Fake
Member
With make me think another question... If the PS5 will be BC, he will get a similar dedicated native custom cb render hardware for cb render similar of the PRO games?
Unless of course Spider-Man and other games that already use temporal injection.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
If so, it worked. Even DF picked up on it and now it's all common forum vernacular.
The OQA leak makes me think it's real. The GDDR6 speed seemed fast, but that might be cost effective by the time PS5 releases, kinda like PS4's 8GB GDDR5 at the time seemed overkill.
If you mean the Scarlett and PS5, then yes I agree they will be very close.
Fake
Member
Yeah, besides the custom 'magic' every individual console will have I guess.
SonGoku
Member
For a 4k target is terrible
For 1440p its not bad
Good question, i remember reading FP16 was used for cb
Exactly
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Probably for RT or AI they'll have their own customization.
For me the important thing is being compact, quiet, and power efficient. Then stuff like the ultra fast loading times, Zen 2 CPU that kicks ass, and well-designed controllers.
Hopefully most games will provide the option of performance and HQ visual modes. Some people are fine with 4K/30fps, but others would want maybe 4kCB/60fps or 1440p/60fps with slightly lower settings.
Fake
Member
Well, unless Sony ignore PRO buffs and just use the base PS4 without any PRO patch. They could eliminate the cb custom hardware case.
Lort
Banned
So maybe if they dedicated more silicon to it ... performance could be better.... AMD implementation seems like potentially it could be better.
SonGoku
Member
Maybe, I suspect devs optimizing their code around next gen consoles will give it an advantage
Racer!
Member
Amazingly strange priorities to me. Like, you will take low framerates and a quiet console before high framerates and a noisy console?
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Chronos24
Member
A quiet console is near top priority to me. My OG PS4 when I had that really took away from the immersion of a lot of games and robbed a lot of enjoyment because of the jet engine fan it had going. Quiet console is very important. Performance I would hope wouldn't be compromised for that but we'll see.Amazingly strange priorities to me. Like, you will take low framerates and a quiet console before high framerates and a noisy console?
Racer!
Member
Hmm...do you sit with the console right beside you in a tiny apartment? If so, I could see it as some sort of a problem. If not, im a little mind blown. Well, we are all different
Imtjnotu
Member
Noise doesn't bother me. My pro is on turbo take off mode all the time but can I hear it over my platinum headset? Nope
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Imtjnotu
Member
Well the new Sony patent for cooling seems interesting af
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Being big, loud, and power hungry is the opposite of good design. Developers will make games at whatever framerates they choose. I'm not worried, though. I feel that MS and Sony consider these top priorities too.Amazingly strange priorities to me. Like, you will take low framerates and a quiet console before high framerates and a noisy console?
Racer!
Member
I dont care about the design. I care about the experience. If it provides excellent experiences it could sit in a cardboard box for all I care.
Let me ask you a question though. Would you have PS4 Pro level of performance, whisper quiet in a beautiful power efficient box, and have that as a baseline for the next seven years? Or would you have a real next gen, performant, ugly, power hungry console, which could provide never before seen experiences?
If I understand you correctly, you would rather go with option 1. And that is mind boggling to me
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
PS4 Pro launch model, in particular, was an example of what not to do. If you have to spend more of your BoM towards better/quieter cooling like X1X then you do it. Xbox One X is an example of compact, quiet, and power efficient. Still has audible noise levels, but not the jet engine effect with fan whine and rigid fan stepping. New Pro models are much better, so Sony was aware of the issue.
High-powered graphics aren't a priority for me in a console. I'm totally fine with the rumored Gonzalo specs and that type of performance. No, I do not want an ugly, loud, power hungry console.
Racer!
Member
Just curios, you see it as kind of a furniture? Or more like those pimping a PC? You may be worried about high electricity bills though, I can see that. If its loud, thats easy to solve for by placing. That gets a little hard if you want to look at it at the top of the tv rack though.
SonGoku
Member
Even if you have a PC for the highest settings you are still limited by consoles as they set the baseline for developers
Why would you not want the highest baseline possible for game development?
Loud i can understand, but what's wrong with ugly (i assume you mean phat?) and power hungry? a 150w vs 250W console will make a minimal difference in your electricity bill.
I hope both sony/ms realized the west doesn't care about slim launch consoles unlike japan. Make them big and powerful
This big would be nice:
Bankai
Member
Could you provide a link? I can't find anything on the subject.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I think well designed hardware of any type has a certain visual appeal to it inherently. This is even true about things like cars, military weaponry, or even food. If food looks like shit and smells like shit, despite tasting delicious then we have a problem. That would be akin to Xbox 360 at launch. I like the X1X design regardless of whether that means higher price on the console.
Kind of shocking that I'm getting the treatment for not wanting a big, loud, power hungry console. I'm not thirsty for maximum performance at any cost. Sorry.
It's all a moot point anyway, imo. I believe Sony and MS have the very same goals in mind. That's why Gonzalo and OQA leaks make sense to me over kaiju rumors.
TLZ
Banned
Every day I play on my Xbox X, I'm still amazed at how they got it to be so quiet, yet so packed. They went from the massive OG Xbox, to the 360 and its heat issues, to the massive Xbone, and finally this. Took them 18 years, but they finally cracked it. Hopefully Xbox 2 continues this and won't disappoint.
SonGoku
Member
Ok you just said its not about big or small but well designed and aesthetically pleasing, so it doesn't matter big or small
Loud i understand but whats wrong with power hungry?
On 7nm EUV you can get a 64CU kaiju for roughly the size of that leak you know
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