ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
As they say: the rich have nothing to do, so they try to find something to problematize about.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)
As they say: the rich have nothing to do, so they try to find something to problematize about.
llien
Member
That's some crazy conspiracy.
crowbrow
Banned
She has banged half the industry "journalists" and the other half are hoping they're next.
petran79
Banned
Of course not, but in many cases of homicide, perpetrators get off lightly especially if they have good connections.
In this case they even have connections in Congress and in the department of justice nonetheless
Congresswoman Tells Federal Government to Investigate Social-Media Abuse
Back in March of this year, feminist blogger and critic Anita Sarkeesian stated, “I’m angry that I’m expected to accept online harassment as the price of being a woman with an opinion.” The frequent Gamergate target has been on the receiving end of unrelenting online harassment for years and is...
womenandhollywood.com
Clark is now making it her mission to make the internet a safer space for women, working towards a justice system that doesn’t minimize, or altogether ignore, online threats against Internet opiners who happen to be female.
And now the House is formally supporting her request. Jezebel reports that a recent memo from the House appropriations committee has asked the Department of Justice to “intensify its efforts to combat this destructive abuse and expects to see increased investigations and prosecutions of these crimes”
captainraincoat
Banned
Needs to not just be for womenOf course not, but in many cases of homicide, perpetrators get off lightly especially if they have good connections.
In this case they even have connections in Congress and in the department of justice nonetheless
Congresswoman Tells Federal Government to Investigate Social-Media Abuse
Back in March of this year, feminist blogger and critic Anita Sarkeesian stated, “I’m angry that I’m expected to accept online harassment as the price of being a woman with an opinion.” The frequent Gamergate target has been on the receiving end of unrelenting online harassment for years and is...
Clark is now making it her mission to make the internet a safer space for women, working towards a justice system that doesn’t minimize, or altogether ignore, online threats against Internet opiners who happen to be female.
And now the House is formally supporting her request. Jezebel reports that a recent memo from the House appropriations committee has asked the Department of Justice to “intensify its efforts to combat this destructive abuse and expects to see increased investigations and prosecutions of these crimes”
I would put children higher up that list and men would need to be included as well otherwise you would end up with a system which can be exploited
TheWanderingOgre
Member
When we have to work and hussle our asses off just to have something to eat and a roof above our heads there is no time or confort to create stuff like this.
FranXico
Member
The system we have now is already being massively exploited.
Last edited:
Hudo
Member
That's an interesting development. Well, someone should send Quinn et al. back in time, then. Not sure if she'll fare any better in those times (probably not) but at least she can be happy with her pronouns.
EightBit Man
Member
That's some really filthy, sexist nonsense right there. Like I said before, women are nowadays a over class. The legal system is one of the biggest, if not the biggest perpetrator in this divide between men and women these days. I thought we should be all equal under law? Obviously we're not. Men should be walking on their toes all the time is what I'm getting from all of this, while women can run amok.
This may indeed be something that causes some men to act the way they do; it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We're not zoo animals (I'm not in favor of zoos either, mind you).
Exactly. Children are the most vulnerable. Lots of children are in a terrible situation right now because of cyberbullying.
Last edited:
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
There is a massive correlation != causation in this, as with nearly all of this rhetoric.Of course not, but in many cases of homicide, perpetrators get off lightly especially if they have good connections.
In this case they even have connections in Congress and in the department of justice nonetheless
Congresswoman Tells Federal Government to Investigate Social-Media Abuse
Back in March of this year, feminist blogger and critic Anita Sarkeesian stated, “I’m angry that I’m expected to accept online harassment as the price of being a woman with an opinion.” The frequent Gamergate target has been on the receiving end of unrelenting online harassment for years and is...
Clark is now making it her mission to make the internet a safer space for women, working towards a justice system that doesn’t minimize, or altogether ignore, online threats against Internet opiners who happen to be female.
And now the House is formally supporting her request. Jezebel reports that a recent memo from the House appropriations committee has asked the Department of Justice to “intensify its efforts to combat this destructive abuse and expects to see increased investigations and prosecutions of these crimes”
Positioning abuse/harassment/criticism down to the gender you happen to be.
For many, myself included, I don't give a shit about your identity. Talk garbage and make nonsense drama and I will criticise you for it.
The causation isn't your gender, it's your behaviour.
And as we already start to see, as this critical motive is glossed over it results in a protected class.
And as we already start to see, members of protected classes exploit their status for personal gain.
tkscz
Member
I get sick of hearing about these social justice crusades which end in horrible circumstances
How about we point out how fucking stupid some of these people are create something which highlights this
how about we start a Kickstarter to reboot the game lemmings (with a twist)
In case you don’t know the original game its your task to guide a bunch of little creatures called lemmings through a level using a variety abilities and they have to make it to the end portal
Instead of lemmings they are a bunch of forum npcs
you have to lead the lemmings on a social justice crusade through a level by using things to attract your lemmings down a path like Twitter mobs or social justice figures and along the way they have enemies like Evidence monsters and killer maga hats and you have to shield your little minions until you get to the end
Your reward is you will get your little lemmings to a little ship where they can fly away to a land where there are unlimited genders and no police or straight white males
I was thinking once the game gets made the sales of the game would be donated towards a mental health support charity
What do you think?
They don't have enough self-reflection to get it so yeah, great idea
Kadayi
Banned
Dude, politicians care first and foremost about optics. A man killed himself here because someone elected to throw him to the wolves on Twitter. Someone who originally rallied against Cyberbullying as a victim. There's no right way to spin getting behind that person in the public's eye. Where is the gain? The bluehair brigade might be vocal on social media, but that's the extent of it.
OutrageousFacts
Banned
Hi,
after seeing one of my tweets quoted here, I decided to make an account ('MatterOfFact' was taken already
).
I've been following this tragic story from the beginning and ... it makes me angry. It makes me angry how all those at fault are now doing their best to silence debate about it, hiding what happened and pointing ar the usual scapegoat ('ALT-RIGHT! GAMER GATE!!1).
Let's make this utmost clear, there's three involved parties that have blood on their hand aka drove Alec Holowka into committing suicide:
1.) His colleagues from 'Night in the Woods' as well as other fellow developers who outcast him at a mere accusation and without a second thought. The accusation's case happened 5 years ago, it's entirely 'he said/she said', and they didn't hesitate even a moment.
2.) The outrage crowd, lead by ResetEra, Kotaku and Engadget, aka the 'Court of Public Opinion'. "Well, going to the police wouldn't have helped", they say, to which I ask: SO WHAT? That is how a lawful, fair, just society works. It does NOT work by organizing a modern day-public lynching on Twitter et al. Courts and authorities exist exactly to prevent this, and I hope that this case has politicians looking into making new laws that help prevent and, at least, harshly sanction such behavior. Make it a hefty fine, and it could be a nice additional income for the country.
The lesson for us should be to teach victims of abuse to go to the police ASAP. If you go there directly, you gave the best chance to prove your case. Waiting fir weeks, months or years means there's nothing but words. The reason why many rape cases end without punishing the rapist is because there's no evidence to get - which is good, because no men should be imprisoned on a woman's word alone. But if you go asap, justice can happen. Not 5 yesrs afterwards, though.
3.) And Zoe Quinn.
At the end of all of these discussions, one fact will remain:
Had Zoe Quinn not randomly decided to throw out a public rape accusation on a random Tuesday, Alec Holowka would still be alive. That is fact.
What makes me especially angry is that in her own message she SAYS that Alec had been undergoing therapy. That he had apologized to her years ago. That 'thisl wasn't about him, but about what happened to her. In other words: She knew he had changed and she claims she had no intention to throw him under the bus ... BUT DID SO ANYWAY. "Just for funL, I'm almost inclined to add.
I've seen her gross apologists argue that 'victims' have all the right to tell their story. Let's be real here: Zoe Quinn, for unbeknownst reasons, is an internet celebrity, with well over 100k followers on her now closed Twitter-account. Alec Holowka was a small indie developer with maybe a couple dedicated fans, but nothing much. When you have a following like Quinn, you have a raised responsibility when you drop someone's name and tell everybody 'he raped me'! She knows how the internet works. She basically sicc'ed her 100ks of followers against this small Polish indie developer. The rest is history. Zoe Quinn is not the victim here, and she doesn't represent other victims. Abuse victims happen from an imbalance in power. This here was imbalanced by far in her favor. And she didn't care.
And here we are. Resetera closed the thread on this topic to make everybody forget about their involvement. Users there like popular user 'mazi' edited postings because they're scared shitless of getting caught by investigation. Their affiliate press (Kotaku, Engadget, Polygin, Eurogamer, etc) are spinning the story in favor of Quinn, trying their hardest not to mention that Alec committed suicide, instead speaking about 'has died', as if nobody but an unfortunate case of nature being cruel was at fault. But we know that's not true. We know who it was, because we know who it always is when someone has their life ruined over silly joke on twitter, for something they said 10 years ago, or for simply having a 'wrong' opinion.
Personally, I've had enough of this shit and I will keep mentioning what 'they' did. Because it's the least I can do. We're past the time of 'being the bigger manl, nu-uh. They shove us out of the discourse, they de-legitimize our opinion, they brand us as alt-right (even though I couldn't be more politically left), nazis (even though they are in favor of censorship), transphobes (everybody is transphobic for not wanting to date trans women, get that!) and so much more. Whatever it takes to de-legitimize us so that the mainstream media takes their side - because nobody wants to take the side of the alt-right. What they're basically doing is cover us in the aura of pedo-criminals. Making our side untouchable, because we're gross and they're right. For all that, I'm no longer being 'the bigger man'. #ScorchedEarth it is.
A hell of a first posting and I apologize if it was a bit much, but this whole thing has me truly upset and they been getting away for too long. Now someone died because of them. My hope and plea to all of you: Don't let them shrug it all under the rug. Keep mentioning it on your social media feeds, talk to others about it. No more mob justice, no more one-sided harassment. No more deaths.
#nightinthewood #nitw #scorchedearth
after seeing one of my tweets quoted here, I decided to make an account ('MatterOfFact' was taken already
).I've been following this tragic story from the beginning and ... it makes me angry. It makes me angry how all those at fault are now doing their best to silence debate about it, hiding what happened and pointing ar the usual scapegoat ('ALT-RIGHT! GAMER GATE!!1).
Let's make this utmost clear, there's three involved parties that have blood on their hand aka drove Alec Holowka into committing suicide:
1.) His colleagues from 'Night in the Woods' as well as other fellow developers who outcast him at a mere accusation and without a second thought. The accusation's case happened 5 years ago, it's entirely 'he said/she said', and they didn't hesitate even a moment.
2.) The outrage crowd, lead by ResetEra, Kotaku and Engadget, aka the 'Court of Public Opinion'. "Well, going to the police wouldn't have helped", they say, to which I ask: SO WHAT? That is how a lawful, fair, just society works. It does NOT work by organizing a modern day-public lynching on Twitter et al. Courts and authorities exist exactly to prevent this, and I hope that this case has politicians looking into making new laws that help prevent and, at least, harshly sanction such behavior. Make it a hefty fine, and it could be a nice additional income for the country.
The lesson for us should be to teach victims of abuse to go to the police ASAP. If you go there directly, you gave the best chance to prove your case. Waiting fir weeks, months or years means there's nothing but words. The reason why many rape cases end without punishing the rapist is because there's no evidence to get - which is good, because no men should be imprisoned on a woman's word alone. But if you go asap, justice can happen. Not 5 yesrs afterwards, though.
3.) And Zoe Quinn.
At the end of all of these discussions, one fact will remain:
Had Zoe Quinn not randomly decided to throw out a public rape accusation on a random Tuesday, Alec Holowka would still be alive. That is fact.
What makes me especially angry is that in her own message she SAYS that Alec had been undergoing therapy. That he had apologized to her years ago. That 'thisl wasn't about him, but about what happened to her. In other words: She knew he had changed and she claims she had no intention to throw him under the bus ... BUT DID SO ANYWAY. "Just for funL, I'm almost inclined to add.
I've seen her gross apologists argue that 'victims' have all the right to tell their story. Let's be real here: Zoe Quinn, for unbeknownst reasons, is an internet celebrity, with well over 100k followers on her now closed Twitter-account. Alec Holowka was a small indie developer with maybe a couple dedicated fans, but nothing much. When you have a following like Quinn, you have a raised responsibility when you drop someone's name and tell everybody 'he raped me'! She knows how the internet works. She basically sicc'ed her 100ks of followers against this small Polish indie developer. The rest is history. Zoe Quinn is not the victim here, and she doesn't represent other victims. Abuse victims happen from an imbalance in power. This here was imbalanced by far in her favor. And she didn't care.
And here we are. Resetera closed the thread on this topic to make everybody forget about their involvement. Users there like popular user 'mazi' edited postings because they're scared shitless of getting caught by investigation. Their affiliate press (Kotaku, Engadget, Polygin, Eurogamer, etc) are spinning the story in favor of Quinn, trying their hardest not to mention that Alec committed suicide, instead speaking about 'has died', as if nobody but an unfortunate case of nature being cruel was at fault. But we know that's not true. We know who it was, because we know who it always is when someone has their life ruined over silly joke on twitter, for something they said 10 years ago, or for simply having a 'wrong' opinion.
Personally, I've had enough of this shit and I will keep mentioning what 'they' did. Because it's the least I can do. We're past the time of 'being the bigger manl, nu-uh. They shove us out of the discourse, they de-legitimize our opinion, they brand us as alt-right (even though I couldn't be more politically left), nazis (even though they are in favor of censorship), transphobes (everybody is transphobic for not wanting to date trans women, get that!) and so much more. Whatever it takes to de-legitimize us so that the mainstream media takes their side - because nobody wants to take the side of the alt-right. What they're basically doing is cover us in the aura of pedo-criminals. Making our side untouchable, because we're gross and they're right. For all that, I'm no longer being 'the bigger man'. #ScorchedEarth it is.
A hell of a first posting and I apologize if it was a bit much, but this whole thing has me truly upset and they been getting away for too long. Now someone died because of them. My hope and plea to all of you: Don't let them shrug it all under the rug. Keep mentioning it on your social media feeds, talk to others about it. No more mob justice, no more one-sided harassment. No more deaths.
#nightinthewood #nitw #scorchedearth
I think it's because it gives people the ability to feel like they are doing something in a relatively inexpensive way. Looks like her average donation was between 2 and 3 dollars so on an individual basis this is like 36 bucks a year max.
Just from reading around these past few weeks on a few subjects you can see that there are many people who have MASSIVE hang ups about GG and the alt-right etc and it really feels like back in 2014 ZQ was able to turn herself into a sort of "focal point" for people to feel like if they give her money then they are really sticking it to those evil trolls.
It's kind of a wonderful marketing technique. "Listen I don't ACTUALLY have anything to offer here BUUUUT there are people who hate me and they would hate more than anything for me to have money SOOOOO make a small donation now and piss off an alt-right, man-baby, mothers-basement, incel today!"
AS very successfully used the same tactic to get funding for her videos.
You will often see the mask slip for these people as when they themselves decide to go after, for example, someone like Sargon of Akkad one of their principle gripes is that he makes money from his content. The weird contradiction being that someone like Sargon etc is actually providing near enough daily, and at worst weekly, content to the people paying for said content.
If the online space has this "divided" feel to it then you can easily see how people end up thinking that the best way to "annoy" the other side is to donate to some troll who actually does nothing but provoke your enemies. It seems to actually work too. I could imagine a ReeeTard looking in on this thread and thinking "I'm gonna give ZQ 5 bucks a month just to piss off these guys".
Giving the money to some homeless guy might be a better thing to do but that is not related to this weird "culture war" that's going on so it probably doesn't give the same kind of satisfaction.
Donate to ZQ and stick it to GG is pretty much the thought process behind it in my opinion.
It's similar to how media outlets will never really criticize her.
They are afraid to be seen as propping up or supporting GG.
So they over compensate by thinking "how can we troll and piss off these people".
Unfortunately this kind of petty reasoning makes it difficult to be anything other than a "yes" man for your chosen side.
So you end up with toxic people who are above criticism.
Now, we see what happens when that is allowed to keep going on and on.
crowbrow
Banned
I wouldnt hold my breath. She did nothing legally wrong for what i can see so the only consequences she will suffer are social ones not legal ones.
No chance. She will keep her head down for a while. Probably focus on her comic books.
I doubt you'll ever see her bumping her gums in public again and I doubt the likes of Kotaku etc will ever have articles about her again.
They'll sweep it under the rug. In a lot of ways it's already swept away.
We are probably one of very few forums actually discussing this openly.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Actually I've got a horrible feeling his family IS going to be ok with it. His sister is very woke, he surrounded himself with the woke, it's reasonable to assume that woke is all he knew because woke was the environment he grew up in, it's reasonable to think that maybe his parents were also hardcore feminists and maybe that led to his issues, being hated from birth for being male. This is all conjecture of course, but nevertheless it fits - that he grew up in a cult environment, that like Scientology it infects all around you and if you're born into it there's no easy escape, but unlike Scientology the outside world offers no support for escapees from the cult, and so his case was truly without hope.
Rien
Jelly Belly
Quiting Facebook, Twitter and others significantly reduced the daily dose of hate culture.. i would recommend it to every one.
Virex
Banned
Fully agree. I've never had Facebook, Twitter or any other social media accounts. And I am glad I never have.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Notice how "gaming's #metoo movement" fizzled as quickly as it began.
Kadayi
Banned
I've never yet met a parent who was happy about their child's suicide.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Scientologists and other cult members are often indifferent to it.
Monkeygourmet
Banned
Game creator’s suicide after feminist Zoe Quinn accuses him of abuse shows peril of Twitter trials
The unraveling of Alec Holowka’s life in the days after facing unproven accusations should remind us why, at some point, civilized society turned away from mob rule and embraced due process.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Geez, all this Russian propaganda about due process, refusing to participate in mob justice, fair trial in a court of law...Game creator’s suicide after feminist Zoe Quinn accuses him of abuse shows peril of Twitter trials
The unraveling of Alec Holowka’s life in the days after facing unproven accusations should remind us why, at some point, civilized society turned away from mob rule and embraced due process.www.google.com
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Geez, all this Russian propaganda about due process, refusing to participate in mob justice, fair trial in a court of law...
Yeah there's something deeply wrong when Russia is the one telling us not to engage in mob justice. Is this what we've come to?
Monkeygourmet
Banned
It’s been fascinating to see the media coordinate their stories and cover up the fact they are all responsible for this individual taking his own life.
Eurogamer having a very distasteful ‘Suicide Helpline’ number at the bottom of the article that they didn’t even have the balls to title ‘Alec has committed Suicide’ - they simply said he had “died” like all the other usual suspect outlets.
There must be a huge amount of internal squirming and silencing going on - I know that for sure.
Some being told to lay low and stay of social media / twitter until this has ‘blown over’.
Also it’s awful they are clamouring for GG2 - they just needed a catalyst and they created one in the most abhorrent way imaginable.
As always - Follow the Money.
Eurogamer having a very distasteful ‘Suicide Helpline’ number at the bottom of the article that they didn’t even have the balls to title ‘Alec has committed Suicide’ - they simply said he had “died” like all the other usual suspect outlets.
There must be a huge amount of internal squirming and silencing going on - I know that for sure.
Some being told to lay low and stay of social media / twitter until this has ‘blown over’.
Also it’s awful they are clamouring for GG2 - they just needed a catalyst and they created one in the most abhorrent way imaginable.
As always - Follow the Money.
Doczu
Member
When they are in college doing jack shit on their fucked up courses thy have way too much time to spend on stuff like that. And afterwards they double down on the shit because their choices left them jobless or sraping the bottom of the barrel while clinging their fists and Ree'ing about the "unfair" life they live.
They are a lost cause.
Tesseract
Banned
my experience is only until death happens, losing a child is shocking business
i've always said scientology would be dangerous if the network went public and hostile
Last edited:
havok75
Member
Oh my yes, get the hell off all of those.
Stuchinoko
Member
This is how basic moral behaviour crumbles into dust. Claim it's a tool of the enemy, a form of oppression upon your rights. "Only Russian media wants you to believe in a court of law, take justice into your own hands! Engage in witch hunts and destroy those who oppose us!"Geez, all this Russian propaganda about due process, refusing to participate in mob justice, fair trial in a court of law...
GreyHorace
Member
The fact that these newsites are not using the word 'suicide' is very telling. They really don't want to link his death to Zoe.
The internet doesn't forget, nor should we.
The internet doesn't forget, nor should we.
Kadayi
Banned
So his parents are part of a cult? Or are you just making some assumptions to back up a position here?
This is a clear case of someone killing themselves in response to ill-considered actions instigated by another. That somehow his parents are going to be ok with all that time, effort, energy and hope they put into raising their son being flushed away because of internet drama is a huge reach. If Zoe Quinn drunkenly ran him over in a car instread do you think they would somehow be ok with that also, simply because of who she is? I'm not buying it.
I get it that some people here think that she's beyond justice, and who knows maybe this will just turn out to be one of those sad internet tales but at the end of the day, I'm not sure she'll be embraced with open arms by the mainstream gaming press any more, or most others aside from the blue hair brigade
Inspector 2211
Member
Google covering up for metoo?!
*In Jesse Ventura voice* I don't believe you.
nush
Gold Member
It didn't begin, it was manufactured by a group of LBQT dangerhairs with really flimsy stories who all knew each other hoping they could fish in some big names and CIS women.
Then somebody died and the mob backed the fuck up and deleted their tweets and went silent. The very fact that this "Alt Right, Nazi"/S forum is still covering it and bringing recipts that Zoe Quinn has a history of being a manipulative POS for cash is very telling.
the Guynecologist
Member
One correction: I don't think Chelsea's doing it for money... exactly. Don't get me wrong, her Patreon had an amazing habit of increasing every time she claimed to be harassed, at least a few years ago - hard to tell now that her earnings are private. However one of the reasons why back in the day no one believed the WizardChan story was because well, her game Depression Quest is free. It's why everyone wrote the whole thing off as being a weirdo conspiracy. However it did happen around the same time DQ was languishing on Steam's greenlight system and the resulting press she got from claiming this really obscure board had raided her and left her threatening phone calls helped the game to get past greenlight and onto the Steam store. However it's still free even on Steam.
I don't think this about the money. I've already detailed why I think Chelsea's likely cluster B if not Borderline in previous posts. It's about... attention. Although maybe attention isn't quite the right word. I mean re-read her accusations against Alec Holowka. She was doing it because she felt inspired by Jeremy Soule's accuser apparently. But then she doesn't exactly accuse Alec of rape - she accuses him of fingering her and being generally abusive but then says he's been working on it since and is now fine......? But I digress. I really think that this was done for attention and sympathy and pity. Not money, although that might come along with the sympathy and pity.
captainraincoat
Banned
the cover up from era was not surprising....you saw what happened to the pedo discord stuff...it was quickly discounted and swept under the rug on all fronts and you had plants in all major social media area on damage control
the only place they could not really control was 4chan and the way they got the threads to dissapear was by flooding the channel with other hot topics and porn...does that sound familiar...im sure Evilore could share some stories of the shit he had to wade through in the implosions and DOS attacks??
Neogaf is not an alt right forum....its a gaming forum first and foremost and a majority of the users from what i have seen dont lean in any direction they just call a spade a spade and if someone thinks its a shovel then we discuss and that apparently makes us Nazis
i personally think trump is a fucking idiot and i would probably lean more left if it was measured once you realise Era is a political forum pretending to be a gaming forum you can make a decision about where you want to be
If you want to talk about games and discuss topics about gaming related stuff than Gaf is your place
If you want to have a narrative forced down your throat and be silenced if you question this than stick around on era
If there are people lurking this thread questioning things ask yourself......why is discussion banned on era?.....why are there no major news outlets reporting this?
the only place they could not really control was 4chan and the way they got the threads to dissapear was by flooding the channel with other hot topics and porn...does that sound familiar...im sure Evilore could share some stories of the shit he had to wade through in the implosions and DOS attacks??
Neogaf is not an alt right forum....its a gaming forum first and foremost and a majority of the users from what i have seen dont lean in any direction they just call a spade a spade and if someone thinks its a shovel then we discuss and that apparently makes us Nazis
i personally think trump is a fucking idiot and i would probably lean more left if it was measured once you realise Era is a political forum pretending to be a gaming forum you can make a decision about where you want to be
If you want to talk about games and discuss topics about gaming related stuff than Gaf is your place
If you want to have a narrative forced down your throat and be silenced if you question this than stick around on era
If there are people lurking this thread questioning things ask yourself......why is discussion banned on era?.....why are there no major news outlets reporting this?
Flintty
Member
Hi,
after seeing one of my tweets quoted here, I decided to make an account ('MatterOfFact' was taken already
I've been following this tragic story from the beginning and ... it makes me angry. It makes me angry how all those at fault are now doing their best to silence debate about it, hiding what happened and pointing ar the usual scapegoat ('ALT-RIGHT! GAMER GATE!!1).
Let's make this utmost clear, there's three involved parties that have blood on their hand aka drove Alec Holowka into committing suicide:
1.) His colleagues from 'Night in the Woods' as well as other fellow developers who outcast him at a mere accusation and without a second thought. The accusation's case happened 5 years ago, it's entirely 'he said/she said', and they didn't hesitate even a moment.
2.) The outrage crowd, lead by ResetEra, Kotaku and Engadget, aka the 'Court of Public Opinion'. "Well, going to the police wouldn't have helped", they say, to which I ask: SO WHAT? That is how a lawful, fair, just society works. It does NOT work by organizing a modern day-public lynching on Twitter et al. Courts and authorities exist exactly to prevent this, and I hope that this case has politicians looking into making new laws that help prevent and, at least, harshly sanction such behavior. Make it a hefty fine, and it could be a nice additional income for the country.
The lesson for us should be to teach victims of abuse to go to the police ASAP. If you go there directly, you gave the best chance to prove your case. Waiting fir weeks, months or years means there's nothing but words. The reason why many rape cases end without punishing the rapist is because there's no evidence to get - which is good, because no men should be imprisoned on a woman's word alone. But if you go asap, justice can happen. Not 5 yesrs afterwards, though.
3.) And Zoe Quinn.
At the end of all of these discussions, one fact will remain:
Had Zoe Quinn not randomly decided to throw out a public rape accusation on a random Tuesday, Alec Holowka would still be alive. That is fact.
What makes me especially angry is that in her own message she SAYS that Alec had been undergoing therapy. That he had apologized to her years ago. That 'thisl wasn't about him, but about what happened to her. In other words: She knew he had changed and she claims she had no intention to throw him under the bus ... BUT DID SO ANYWAY. "Just for funL, I'm almost inclined to add.
I've seen her gross apologists argue that 'victims' have all the right to tell their story. Let's be real here: Zoe Quinn, for unbeknownst reasons, is an internet celebrity, with well over 100k followers on her now closed Twitter-account. Alec Holowka was a small indie developer with maybe a couple dedicated fans, but nothing much. When you have a following like Quinn, you have a raised responsibility when you drop someone's name and tell everybody 'he raped me'! She knows how the internet works. She basically sicc'ed her 100ks of followers against this small Polish indie developer. The rest is history. Zoe Quinn is not the victim here, and she doesn't represent other victims. Abuse victims happen from an imbalance in power. This here was imbalanced by far in her favor. And she didn't care.
And here we are. Resetera closed the thread on this topic to make everybody forget about their involvement. Users there like popular user 'mazi' edited postings because they're scared shitless of getting caught by investigation. Their affiliate press (Kotaku, Engadget, Polygin, Eurogamer, etc) are spinning the story in favor of Quinn, trying their hardest not to mention that Alec committed suicide, instead speaking about 'has died', as if nobody but an unfortunate case of nature being cruel was at fault. But we know that's not true. We know who it was, because we know who it always is when someone has their life ruined over silly joke on twitter, for something they said 10 years ago, or for simply having a 'wrong' opinion.
Personally, I've had enough of this shit and I will keep mentioning what 'they' did. Because it's the least I can do. We're past the time of 'being the bigger manl, nu-uh. They shove us out of the discourse, they de-legitimize our opinion, they brand us as alt-right (even though I couldn't be more politically left), nazis (even though they are in favor of censorship), transphobes (everybody is transphobic for not wanting to date trans women, get that!) and so much more. Whatever it takes to de-legitimize us so that the mainstream media takes their side - because nobody wants to take the side of the alt-right. What they're basically doing is cover us in the aura of pedo-criminals. Making our side untouchable, because we're gross and they're right. For all that, I'm no longer being 'the bigger man'. #ScorchedEarth it is.
A hell of a first posting and I apologize if it was a bit much, but this whole thing has me truly upset and they been getting away for too long. Now someone died because of them. My hope and plea to all of you: Don't let them shrug it all under the rug. Keep mentioning it on your social media feeds, talk to others about it. No more mob justice, no more one-sided harassment. No more deaths.
#nightinthewood #nitw #scorchedearth
You’re right, a hell of a first post.
Welcome to the forum
So wait.... the moderators at ResetEra are dealing with this by deleting any threads on the subject - essentially pretending it didn’t happen?
How can a gaming forum that prides itself on social justice censor one of the biggest social justice scandals of all time in gaming? That’s Big Brother times ten.
How can a gaming forum that prides itself on social justice censor one of the biggest social justice scandals of all time in gaming? That’s Big Brother times ten.
captainraincoat
Banned
Pretty much....its not a gaming forum
nush
Gold Member
It's an Alt Left radicalization forum using gaming as the bait. Except they are really really shit at the radicalization part and just silence any dissidents with bans.
Lanrutcon
Member
Hi,
after seeing one of my tweets quoted here, I decided to make an account ('MatterOfFact' was taken already
I've been following this tragic story from the beginning and ... it makes me angry. It makes me angry how all those at fault are now doing their best to silence debate about it, hiding what happened and pointing ar the usual scapegoat ('ALT-RIGHT! GAMER GATE!!1).
Let's make this utmost clear, there's three involved parties that have blood on their hand aka drove Alec Holowka into committing suicide:
1.) His colleagues from 'Night in the Woods' as well as other fellow developers who outcast him at a mere accusation and without a second thought. The accusation's case happened 5 years ago, it's entirely 'he said/she said', and they didn't hesitate even a moment.
2.) The outrage crowd, lead by ResetEra, Kotaku and Engadget, aka the 'Court of Public Opinion'. "Well, going to the police wouldn't have helped", they say, to which I ask: SO WHAT? That is how a lawful, fair, just society works. It does NOT work by organizing a modern day-public lynching on Twitter et al. Courts and authorities exist exactly to prevent this, and I hope that this case has politicians looking into making new laws that help prevent and, at least, harshly sanction such behavior. Make it a hefty fine, and it could be a nice additional income for the country.
The lesson for us should be to teach victims of abuse to go to the police ASAP. If you go there directly, you gave the best chance to prove your case. Waiting fir weeks, months or years means there's nothing but words. The reason why many rape cases end without punishing the rapist is because there's no evidence to get - which is good, because no men should be imprisoned on a woman's word alone. But if you go asap, justice can happen. Not 5 yesrs afterwards, though.
3.) And Zoe Quinn.
At the end of all of these discussions, one fact will remain:
Had Zoe Quinn not randomly decided to throw out a public rape accusation on a random Tuesday, Alec Holowka would still be alive. That is fact.
What makes me especially angry is that in her own message she SAYS that Alec had been undergoing therapy. That he had apologized to her years ago. That 'thisl wasn't about him, but about what happened to her. In other words: She knew he had changed and she claims she had no intention to throw him under the bus ... BUT DID SO ANYWAY. "Just for funL, I'm almost inclined to add.
I've seen her gross apologists argue that 'victims' have all the right to tell their story. Let's be real here: Zoe Quinn, for unbeknownst reasons, is an internet celebrity, with well over 100k followers on her now closed Twitter-account. Alec Holowka was a small indie developer with maybe a couple dedicated fans, but nothing much. When you have a following like Quinn, you have a raised responsibility when you drop someone's name and tell everybody 'he raped me'! She knows how the internet works. She basically sicc'ed her 100ks of followers against this small Polish indie developer. The rest is history. Zoe Quinn is not the victim here, and she doesn't represent other victims. Abuse victims happen from an imbalance in power. This here was imbalanced by far in her favor. And she didn't care.
And here we are. Resetera closed the thread on this topic to make everybody forget about their involvement. Users there like popular user 'mazi' edited postings because they're scared shitless of getting caught by investigation. Their affiliate press (Kotaku, Engadget, Polygin, Eurogamer, etc) are spinning the story in favor of Quinn, trying their hardest not to mention that Alec committed suicide, instead speaking about 'has died', as if nobody but an unfortunate case of nature being cruel was at fault. But we know that's not true. We know who it was, because we know who it always is when someone has their life ruined over silly joke on twitter, for something they said 10 years ago, or for simply having a 'wrong' opinion.
Personally, I've had enough of this shit and I will keep mentioning what 'they' did. Because it's the least I can do. We're past the time of 'being the bigger manl, nu-uh. They shove us out of the discourse, they de-legitimize our opinion, they brand us as alt-right (even though I couldn't be more politically left), nazis (even though they are in favor of censorship), transphobes (everybody is transphobic for not wanting to date trans women, get that!) and so much more. Whatever it takes to de-legitimize us so that the mainstream media takes their side - because nobody wants to take the side of the alt-right. What they're basically doing is cover us in the aura of pedo-criminals. Making our side untouchable, because we're gross and they're right. For all that, I'm no longer being 'the bigger man'. #ScorchedEarth it is.
A hell of a first posting and I apologize if it was a bit much, but this whole thing has me truly upset and they been getting away for too long. Now someone died because of them. My hope and plea to all of you: Don't let them shrug it all under the rug. Keep mentioning it on your social media feeds, talk to others about it. No more mob justice, no more one-sided harassment. No more deaths.
#nightinthewood #nitw #scorchedearth
Preach it.
Doczu
Member
Could we please call ReeEra and all journous and outlets that create this sad circle jerk "Ctrl-Left" instead of "Alt"? This works perfectly with the way they want to control the narration, discussion and games as media/art.
prinz_valium
Member
LMAO that's perfect.
Especially the Keyboard analogy.
brian0057
Banned
Hi,
after seeing one of my tweets quoted here, I decided to make an account ('MatterOfFact' was taken already
I've been following this tragic story from the beginning and ... it makes me angry. It makes me angry how all those at fault are now doing their best to silence debate about it, hiding what happened and pointing ar the usual scapegoat ('ALT-RIGHT! GAMER GATE!!1).
Let's make this utmost clear, there's three involved parties that have blood on their hand aka drove Alec Holowka into committing suicide:
1.) His colleagues from 'Night in the Woods' as well as other fellow developers who outcast him at a mere accusation and without a second thought. The accusation's case happened 5 years ago, it's entirely 'he said/she said', and they didn't hesitate even a moment.
2.) The outrage crowd, lead by ResetEra, Kotaku and Engadget, aka the 'Court of Public Opinion'. "Well, going to the police wouldn't have helped", they say, to which I ask: SO WHAT? That is how a lawful, fair, just society works. It does NOT work by organizing a modern day-public lynching on Twitter et al. Courts and authorities exist exactly to prevent this, and I hope that this case has politicians looking into making new laws that help prevent and, at least, harshly sanction such behavior. Make it a hefty fine, and it could be a nice additional income for the country.
The lesson for us should be to teach victims of abuse to go to the police ASAP. If you go there directly, you gave the best chance to prove your case. Waiting fir weeks, months or years means there's nothing but words. The reason why many rape cases end without punishing the rapist is because there's no evidence to get - which is good, because no men should be imprisoned on a woman's word alone. But if you go asap, justice can happen. Not 5 yesrs afterwards, though.
3.) And Zoe Quinn.
At the end of all of these discussions, one fact will remain:
Had Zoe Quinn not randomly decided to throw out a public rape accusation on a random Tuesday, Alec Holowka would still be alive. That is fact.
What makes me especially angry is that in her own message she SAYS that Alec had been undergoing therapy. That he had apologized to her years ago. That 'thisl wasn't about him, but about what happened to her. In other words: She knew he had changed and she claims she had no intention to throw him under the bus ... BUT DID SO ANYWAY. "Just for funL, I'm almost inclined to add.
I've seen her gross apologists argue that 'victims' have all the right to tell their story. Let's be real here: Zoe Quinn, for unbeknownst reasons, is an internet celebrity, with well over 100k followers on her now closed Twitter-account. Alec Holowka was a small indie developer with maybe a couple dedicated fans, but nothing much. When you have a following like Quinn, you have a raised responsibility when you drop someone's name and tell everybody 'he raped me'! She knows how the internet works. She basically sicc'ed her 100ks of followers against this small Polish indie developer. The rest is history. Zoe Quinn is not the victim here, and she doesn't represent other victims. Abuse victims happen from an imbalance in power. This here was imbalanced by far in her favor. And she didn't care.
And here we are. Resetera closed the thread on this topic to make everybody forget about their involvement. Users there like popular user 'mazi' edited postings because they're scared shitless of getting caught by investigation. Their affiliate press (Kotaku, Engadget, Polygin, Eurogamer, etc) are spinning the story in favor of Quinn, trying their hardest not to mention that Alec committed suicide, instead speaking about 'has died', as if nobody but an unfortunate case of nature being cruel was at fault. But we know that's not true. We know who it was, because we know who it always is when someone has their life ruined over silly joke on twitter, for something they said 10 years ago, or for simply having a 'wrong' opinion.
Personally, I've had enough of this shit and I will keep mentioning what 'they' did. Because it's the least I can do. We're past the time of 'being the bigger manl, nu-uh. They shove us out of the discourse, they de-legitimize our opinion, they brand us as alt-right (even though I couldn't be more politically left), nazis (even though they are in favor of censorship), transphobes (everybody is transphobic for not wanting to date trans women, get that!) and so much more. Whatever it takes to de-legitimize us so that the mainstream media takes their side - because nobody wants to take the side of the alt-right. What they're basically doing is cover us in the aura of pedo-criminals. Making our side untouchable, because we're gross and they're right. For all that, I'm no longer being 'the bigger man'. #ScorchedEarth it is.
A hell of a first posting and I apologize if it was a bit much, but this whole thing has me truly upset and they been getting away for too long. Now someone died because of them. My hope and plea to all of you: Don't let them shrug it all under the rug. Keep mentioning it on your social media feeds, talk to others about it. No more mob justice, no more one-sided harassment. No more deaths.
#nightinthewood #nitw #scorchedearth
Scorched earth indeed.
How does that saying go?
You don't become GamerGate/Alt-right/Nazi by choice. You're thrown in with the rest of us the moment you dare to disagree.
Zekra Dezivad
Member
Lol, I'm not into the political debate and terms since I'm geographically and culturally very far to really undestand the implications in the american society, but this is cleverly amazing
ROMhack
Member
Metro did too, which I find very strange. They don't usually care about being factually accurate.
Personally I think something has happened here to stop them saying 'suicide'. It seems highly likely that somebody is running PR damage control.
Last edited:
Monkeygourmet
Banned
Some people have speculated they “can’t” and it would be bad journalism to say ‘suicide’ without an official report.
Which, is quite frankly laughable - since when did these outlets ever care about such factual accuracy especially since they happily throw Alec under the bus 2 seconds before without any actual *facts* coming to light.
Also the fact they then link a suicide helpline - I mean, come the f on - it’s ludicrous.
They all know what they did, they all know they are guilty and have now gone into overdrive to silence / block discussion.
This forum is pretty much the only one keeping this topic alive and that is quite the thing.
The other hilariously childish and cowardly way they are ‘dealing’ with this situation is to pretend they won’t talk about it as it just gives ammo the the GG supporters (however the f they are?!)
All that’s happening here is we just all saw you dogpile some guy with mental health issues until he broke down and killed himself.
That’s what they don’t want discussed or to enter into the narrative.
