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Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Nice take here.

No proof, but evil man deserved to die. He made people work 7 hours a day!




o2ZZIrM.png


The Ree thread on this is predictably fucking horrible. Its very obvious that they see only what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe, at this point.
The number of red flags in that medium piece is astounding, and thats beyond the unavoidable tackyness of the fact that Benson is not only sticking the boot into a recently deceased "friend", but that he is milking it for pity points about his own life.
 

JoeDanny

Member
yall need to get a life and stop reading that shitty forum

it sucks, it always will suck, but yall keep giving it life like it matters

I don't post much, mainly because this place used to be pretty much like that place is now. However, in the years since GAF has gotten better, I've started lurking more and more and I've seen Era turn into more or less a boogeyman.

Now this doesn't discredit the very valid point that the general atmosphere of smugness and unwillingness to accept any wrongdoing on Era's part is absolutely disgusting. Their creed played a very significant part in this tragedy and continue to spit on the grave of the deceased.

There is a very sad lesson to be learned here about mob rule on the internet. I think most people don't understand the power that social media outlets like Twitter have especially when people broadcast not just their personal lives on there, but their careers too. One mistake can send a horde of people into a frenzy, practically tripping over themselves to denounce someone. This is what created this tragedy. It doesn't matter if the accusations were true (I have a healthy amount of skepticism given the accuser's reputation...), because the result was a complete and total dogpile on Holowka until he couldn't handle it anymore. Every facet of his life was torn down in an instant and he was made out to be a monster. Imagine any person going through this, nonetheless a person with verifiable mental illness.

I wish this would be a wake-up call to the internet. It sounds like a cliche, but we as a larger community need to step back and think about what has happened and the precedent that has been set.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
You'd think after his death by suicide they would at least let up a bit, but they seem more vicious than ever.
No.

Whether they admit it or not, they are excited at the prospect of having a real impact. Why else would they make excuses for their behavior and handwave their role in Alec's suicide? There was no remorse after Etika, either. They want this circus to continue, and they will keep ramping up until things implode over there.

Those who still have a few braincells will come back to websites like GAF and pretend they were "uncomfortable" with the mob tactics all along. The other True Believers will blame the implosion on something -- anything but themselves -- and will migrate to a new cause to devote their lives to.
 

ExpandKong

Banned
You'd think after his death by suicide they would at least let up a bit, but they seem more vicious than ever.

Just further proof that once you find yourself in these peoples’ crosshairs, nothing you can do will ever be good enough for their forgiveness.

Don’t apologize. Don’t donate money. Don’t make your staff attend sensitivity seminars. Don’t change your game or edit your writing. It will never be enough.

This poor bastard killed himself and fuckers over at Era are buying ouija boards to summon his ghost and reee at him some more.
 
I wish there was a way to ignore threads based on keywords. I scroll past this thread every day and the name Zoe Quinn is likely so firmly rooted in my subconscious now that I'm afraid she's going to start appearing in my dreams (nightmares?) soon.
 
The gall these people have to claim #cancelculture doesn't exist and is only something that alt-righter, nazis and incels use (i can't get over the fact how they always complain about someone saying 'sjw, but then unironically keep saying 'incel' 🤦‍♀️).

Now they say this about NeoGAF/Evilore and it makes me wish Evilore would sue these assholes into oblivion for all the smearing and libel:

 
It won’t be long before people start cracking and spilling the beans.

It’s like ‘I know what you did last Summer’...

The guilt will be eating Into some of the bottom feeders and one or more will crack and fess up sooner or later.

There is a lot more of this still to come - some are being typically steadfast and pig headed but some are getting twitchy as they know what’s gone down here.
 

Lunk

Member
The gall these people have to claim #cancelculture doesn't exist and is only something that alt-righter, nazis and incels use (i can't get over the fact how they always complain about someone saying 'sjw, but then unironically keep saying 'incel' 🤦‍♀️).

Now they say this about NeoGAF/Evilore and it makes me wish Evilore would sue these assholes into oblivion for all the smearing and libel:

The James Gunn case still has a hollow ring in their room. Everyone knows it, everyone pretends it didn't happen.
 
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nush

Gold Member
The James Gunn case still has a hollow ring in their room. Everyone knows it, everyone pretends it didn't happen.
The Alt Right tried to cancel James Gunn, therefore it does not count because the Alt Right are always wrong.
 

SLUG_____

Neo Member
Just further proof that once you find yourself in these peoples’ crosshairs, nothing you can do will ever be good enough for their forgiveness.

Don’t apologize. Don’t donate money. Don’t make your staff attend sensitivity seminars. Don’t change your game or edit your writing. It will never be enough.

This poor bastard killed himself and fuckers over at Era are buying ouija boards to summon his ghost and reee at him some more.

Truth. Go off king. Do not give one inch.
 

Lunk

Member
The Alt Right tried to cancel James Gunn, therefore it does not count because the Alt Right are always wrong.
That was my first 3-week ban from the Era. I said "So who is the Alt-Right actually?" and I must've forgotten a trigger warning or something.
 


The fact that ZQ is allowed back on twitter after she contributed to the death of another person through her tweets, merely shows how messed up twitter's moderation policies are.

After Eron Gjoni, Nathan Grayson, Alec Holowka and the numerous other ex-boyfriends she has burned through and thrown away when they fulfilled their use, it should be pretty apparent that ZQ is a hopelessly narcissistic and abusive person who uses other people as mere commodities. Where ZQ goes, drama follows. Doesn't matter who she's engaged with, as long as she is projecting her own abusive behavior on others, everything she touches will sooner or later end up in human tragedy.

What ZQ is doing is capitalizing on her broken relationships after her ex-lovers have spent their use and it's a sad fact that twitter and the general gaming press keep supporting this behavior even after witnessing the tragic end of Alec Holowka. How many more victims does she need to claim before people realize that ZQ is not a good person?

This has nothing to do with #metoo, Gamergate or the alt-right as you don't need to be ideologically affiliated to criticize her irresponsible behavior. I don't know enough about Alec Holowka and his struggle with depression to dole out blame, and ZQ's one-sided account is certainly not enough to sway me either side. Judging by her accounts, it seemed like another failed relationship between two people who were not supposed to be together. Nevertheless, over the years I've become familiar with ZQ's pattern of abusive and self-centered behavior as she is compensating the lack of her creative output with internet-drama.

ZQ never feared Gamergate, in fact, she desperately needed to keep it going in order to promote herself. It is no wonder that, as soon as that well was starting to dry up, she decided to whip up more drama in order to cash in on gaming's #metoo moment. Indeed, her accusations were not about Alec Holowka, it was merely a useful tool to further promote her persona. You'd think that somebody who claims to be an expert on depression because they made a lazy html game about it would know better than to dredge up a long since forgotten and forgiven internet sob-story. ZQ knew full well that her accusations would not bring about anything good or useful, but decided to ruin another person's life because she saw an opportunity to promote herself.

Alec Holowka cancelled himself in the most extreme way possible. In the end, this is what cancel culture is all about, isn't it?

Now that they've got what they wanted, they don't want anything to do with it. Yes Zoe Quinn, his blood is on your hands, I hope it was worth the 5 minutes of e-fame you managed to suck out of it. I hope his death was worth the interpersonal drama you conjured up by throwing yourself into yet another opportunistic relationship that was doomed from the start because you saw in Alec a comfortable mean to escape from your other failed relationship. You knew Alec, you knew about his mental problems, you already had forgiven him, but decided to ruin another person's path of redemption merely because you saw another opportunity to make yourself yet again the center of attention. Alec's state of mind was never your concern, merely the amount of cash you sought to gain from destroying his life.

How many more victims does your narcissistic opportunism need to claim, before you realize that the abuse you receive might be the result of the abuse you dish out? You treat people as commodities and then whine on twitter about your failed relationships once the people who fell in love with you have served their use. I can't verify your accusations and now that Alec is dead, it doesn't matter anyway, but I do know that it takes two to tango and this isn't your first dance.

In the end, what good came out of all this? Nothing much, except maybe the the fact that more people started to realize what a horrible person ZQ really is, now that the fog of war has cleared and the spectre of GG has long since faded away. The same goes for Resetera who blindly accepted your one-sided account in order to "cancel" yet another person's life and who are now sticking their head into the sand like the cowards they are.

The emperor has no clothes and if anything good can come out of Alec's tragic death, I hope it is that people finally see what a person ZQ really is. No, I don't need to be a Gamergater or alt-right to recognize a shitty person when I see one and no amount of desperate labeling in order to shift blame is gonna change that. I don't care how many sob stories she can fabricate or how many pronouns she hides behind, ZQ is and remains a horrible person.

Zoe Quinn, you're not a victim, you're a perpetrator.
 
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I will give you one thing, strange headache.

I knew some of the red flags around her but I try to not invest too much of my time in the drama of other peoples lives and in the madness of online feuds.
Still, after a person has died, I had to do further research. Even reducing myself to the facts and discarding the wild stories... Its like she has a collection of red flags.

Some of the undisputed things about her... If I did the same, my family, my close friends, my loved ones, my work colleagues... They would crucify me as a liar, a bum, a manipulator, an abusive con artist.

It baffles me how so many people so easily side with her. Instead of demanding investigation and accountability. Even after one death.
 

dolabla

Member
The fact that ZQ is allowed back on twitter after she contributed to the death of another person through her tweets, merely shows how messed up twitter's moderation policies are.

After Eron Gjoni, Nathan Grayson, Alec Holowka and the numerous other ex-boyfriends she has burned through and thrown away when they fulfilled their use, it should be pretty apparent that ZQ is a hopelessly narcissistic and abusive person who uses other people as mere commodities. Where ZQ goes, drama follows. Doesn't matter who she's engaged with, as long as she is projecting her own abusive behavior on others, everything she touches will sooner or later end up in human tragedy.

What ZQ is doing is capitalizing on her broken relationships after her ex-lovers have spent their use and it's a sad fact that twitter and the general gaming press keep supporting this behavior even after witnessing the tragic end of Alec Holowka. How many more victims does she need to claim before people realize that ZQ is not a good person?

This has nothing to do with #metoo, Gamergate or the alt-right as you don't need to be ideologically affiliated to criticize her irresponsible behavior. I don't know enough about Alec Holowka and his struggle with depression to dole out blame, and ZQ's one-sided account is certainly not enough to sway me either side. Judging by her accounts, it seemed like another failed relationship between two people who were not supposed to be together. Nevertheless, over the years I've become familiar with ZQ's pattern of abusive and self-centered behavior as she is compensating the lack of her creative output with internet-drama.

ZQ never feared Gamergate, in fact, she desperately needed to keep it going in order to promote herself. It is no wonder that, as soon as that well was starting to dry up, she decided to whip up more drama in order to cash in on gaming's #metoo moment. Indeed, her accusations were not about Alec Holowka, it was merely a useful tool to further promote her persona. You'd think that somebody who claims to be an expert on depression because they made a lazy html game about it would know better than to dredge up a long since forgotten and forgiven internet sob-story. ZQ knew full well that her accusations would not bring about anything good or useful, but decided to ruin another person's life because she saw an opportunity to promote herself.

Alec Holowka cancelled himself in the most extreme way possible. In the end, this is what cancel culture is all about, isn't it?

Now that they've got what they wanted, they don't want anything to do with it. Yes Zoe Quinn, his blood is on your hands, I hope it was worth the 5 minutes of e-fame you managed to suck out of it. I hope his death was worth the interpersonal drama you conjured up by throwing yourself into yet another opportunistic relationship that was doomed from the start because you saw in Alec a comfortable mean to escape from your other failed relationship. You knew Alec, you knew about his mental problems, you already had forgiven him, but decided to ruin another person's path of redemption merely because you saw another opportunity to make yourself yet again the center of attention. Alec's state of mind was never your concern, merely the amount of cash you sought to gain from destroying his life.

How many more victims does your narcissistic opportunism need to claim, before you realize that the abuse you receive might be the result of the abuse you dish out? You treat people as commodities and then whine on twitter about your failed relationships once the people who fell in love with you have served their use. I can't verify your accusations and now that Alec is dead, it doesn't matter anyway, but I do know that it takes two to tango and this isn't your first dance.

In the end, what good came out of all this? Nothing much, except maybe the the fact that more people started to realize what a horrible person ZQ really is, now that the fog of war has cleared and the spectre of GG has long since faded away. The same goes for Resetera who blindly accepted your one-sided account in order to "cancel" yet another person's life and who are now sticking their head into the sand like the cowards they are.

The emperor has no clothes and if anything good can come out of Alec's tragic death, I hope it is that people finally see what a person ZQ really is. No, I don't need to be a Gamergater or alt-right to recognize a shitty person when I see one and no amount of desperate labeling in order to shift blame is gonna change that. I don't care how many sob stories she can fabricate or how many pronouns she hided behind, ZQ is and remains a horrible person.

Zoe Quinn, you're not a victim, you're a perpetrator.

Excellent post.

"Where ZQ goes, drama follows."

Couldn't have said it any better. And with most people like this, it's always others and never them.
 
strange headache strange headache

She wasn't banned, she just locked her account down for a period.

I know. She locked her account out of pure cowardice, but after what happened, she should be banned from ever using twitter again. Maybe I should have clarified, but in my opinion she shouldn't be allowed back, having demonstrated time and time again what kind of abuse she can hurl at others. She's clearly not well equipped to wield her public notoriety in a responsible manner.
 
So I read that article by Scott Benson and the first sentence of the last paragraph is “I survived Alec” yea well asshole he didn’t survive this.

It’s even worse he posted this crap on a site no one can comment on or dislike. What a coward and he has the NERVE to say he “cared about Alec” yea well dude people who care about someone don’t write hit pieces on their dead friends before he is even in the damn ground
 

ExpandKong

Banned
The fact that ZQ is allowed back on twitter after she contributed to the death of another person through her tweets, merely shows how messed up twitter's moderation policies are.

After Eron Gjoni, Nathan Grayson, Alec Holowka and the numerous other ex-boyfriends she has burned through and thrown away when they fulfilled their use, it should be pretty apparent that ZQ is a hopelessly narcissistic and abusive person who uses other people as mere commodities. Where ZQ goes, drama follows. Doesn't matter who she's engaged with, as long as she is projecting her own abusive behavior on others, everything she touches will sooner or later end up in human tragedy.

What ZQ is doing is capitalizing on her broken relationships after her ex-lovers have spent their use and it's a sad fact that twitter and the general gaming press keep supporting this behavior even after witnessing the tragic end of Alec Holowka. How many more victims does she need to claim before people realize that ZQ is not a good person?

This has nothing to do with #metoo, Gamergate or the alt-right as you don't need to be ideologically affiliated to criticize her irresponsible behavior. I don't know enough about Alec Holowka and his struggle with depression to dole out blame, and ZQ's one-sided account is certainly not enough to sway me either side. Judging by her accounts, it seemed like another failed relationship between two people who were not supposed to be together. Nevertheless, over the years I've become familiar with ZQ's pattern of abusive and self-centered behavior as she is compensating the lack of her creative output with internet-drama.

ZQ never feared Gamergate, in fact, she desperately needed to keep it going in order to promote herself. It is no wonder that, as soon as that well was starting to dry up, she decided to whip up more drama in order to cash in on gaming's #metoo moment. Indeed, her accusations were not about Alec Holowka, it was merely a useful tool to further promote her persona. You'd think that somebody who claims to be an expert on depression because they made a lazy html game about it would know better than to dredge up a long since forgotten and forgiven internet sob-story. ZQ knew full well that her accusations would not bring about anything good or useful, but decided to ruin another person's life because she saw an opportunity to promote herself.

Alec Holowka cancelled himself in the most extreme way possible. In the end, this is what cancel culture is all about, isn't it?

Now that they've got what they wanted, they don't want anything to do with it. Yes Zoe Quinn, his blood is on your hands, I hope it was worth the 5 minutes of e-fame you managed to suck out of it. I hope his death was worth the interpersonal drama you conjured up by throwing yourself into yet another opportunistic relationship that was doomed from the start because you saw in Alec a comfortable mean to escape from your other failed relationship. You knew Alec, you knew about his mental problems, you already had forgiven him, but decided to ruin another person's path of redemption merely because you saw another opportunity to make yourself yet again the center of attention. Alec's state of mind was never your concern, merely the amount of cash you sought to gain from destroying his life.

How many more victims does your narcissistic opportunism need to claim, before you realize that the abuse you receive might be the result of the abuse you dish out? You treat people as commodities and then whine on twitter about your failed relationships once the people who fell in love with you have served their use. I can't verify your accusations and now that Alec is dead, it doesn't matter anyway, but I do know that it takes two to tango and this isn't your first dance.

In the end, what good came out of all this? Nothing much, except maybe the the fact that more people started to realize what a horrible person ZQ really is, now that the fog of war has cleared and the spectre of GG has long since faded away. The same goes for Resetera who blindly accepted your one-sided account in order to "cancel" yet another person's life and who are now sticking their head into the sand like the cowards they are.

The emperor has no clothes and if anything good can come out of Alec's tragic death, I hope it is that people finally see what a person ZQ really is. No, I don't need to be a Gamergater or alt-right to recognize a shitty person when I see one and no amount of desperate labeling in order to shift blame is gonna change that. I don't care how many sob stories she can fabricate or how many pronouns she hided behind, ZQ is and remains a horrible person.

Zoe Quinn, you're not a victim, you're a perpetrator.

I keep finding myself asking: why her? To be blunt, she doesn’t seem particularly talented or, and I hate to bring this up, attractive. She has (or had in the past, not sure what she looks like nowadays) a look that I understand some people might find attractive, but she’s not exactly Helen of Troy or anything.

Why are so many people so willing to go to bat for this woman? Why do they pay her bills and read her self-indulgent nonsense and ignore not only the questionable aspects of her stories, but also the actual verifiable evidence of her wrongdoings? How’s that Chuck Tingle game coming Zoe? Any word on that game jam yet?

As far as I can tell she’s made one thing that could technically be called a game, and maybe some comics?

What is it about Zoe Quinn that makes all this nonsense worth it for anybody?
 

Kadayi

Banned
I know. She locked her account out of pure cowardice, but after what happened, she should be banned from ever using twitter again. Maybe I should have clarified, but in my opinion she shouldn't be allowed back, having demonstrated time and time again what kind of abuse she can hurl at others. She's clearly not well equipped to wield her public notoriety in a responsible manner.

I don't disagree, but I suspect it will be extremely hard to get her account removed given her prominence. I'd be surprised if she ever makes the account fully public again tbh.
 
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This is giving me flashbacks of that whole Cristiano Ronaldo (the soccer star) rape allegations.

In my office of more than 40 people, vast majority of them women, I was THE ONLY ONE calling him out for a rapist. I had female colleagues saying grostesque things as bad as "If only Cristiano would come and rape me, tee hee hee.". Disgusting.

I got shit for days, with people constantly making fun of me.

Having said that, the girl was a victim and has to see justice served because of it but also an opportunist in my point of view. She didnt want justice. She didnt want Ronaldo in jail and on a rapist list. She wanted money. She had been payed years before a lot of money to keep silent and now, in the back shoulders of the #metoo movement she wanted a lot more money.

I go as far as to say that woman was being completely disrespectful and insulting to other sexual abuse victims that become scarred for life and just want truth and justice restored.

Perpetrators can be victims of other crimes. Victims can be perpetrators of other crimes.

Good people have to be escrutinated. Bad people are not responsible for all the wrongdoings of the world.

And vice-versa.

Equalty.

There are no saints nor monsters. A thousand good deeds dont pay a bad one. A thousand bad deeds dont take the value out of that one good deed you do.

Each case is a different case. You pay your due action by action.

Accountability. Balance. The rule of Law. Justice.

You must never be made into an untouchable angel nor demonized.

Rape, sexual abuse have to be public crimes. They are in my country. And never mean money trading hands in court or online mobs rallied to 'cancel' an individual but instead severe jail time.
As soon as an accusation drops it should not be dependent of charges. It must be immediately investigated.
 
What is it about Zoe Quinn that makes all this nonsense worth it for anybody?

I'd say it is out of pure necessity. Since she was at the center of a very prominent internet controversy concerning the gaming press, criticizing Quinn would be akin to recognizing your own fault and partially vindicate Gamergate's complaints. Next to Sarkeesian, Zoe became the martyr of their cause, a cornerstone of their narrative that gamers are all racist, sexist pigs. Calling out Quinn for her abusive behavior, would imply unraveling the narrative.

The people who are still defending her are too far entrenched to admit they were wrong. It's like admitting that your dogmatic principles and your black & white world-view are faulty and by extension the self-.righteous hate that you hurled at others.

"Those bad gamergaters are trying to hack me while I'm psychologically vulnerable"?

Where was her concern for Alec's psychological vulnerability? Don't expect of others what you are unwilling to uphold yourself.
 

FranXico

Member
This is giving me flashbacks of that whole Cristiano Ronaldo (the soccer star) rape allegations.

In my office of more than 40 people, vast majority of them women, I was THE ONLY ONE calling him out for a rapist. I had female colleagues saying grostesque things as bad as "If only Cristiano would come and rape me, tee hee hee.". Disgusting.

I got shit for days, with people constantly making fun of me.

Having said that, the girl was a victim and has to see justice served because of it but also an opportunist in my point of view. She didnt want justice. She didnt want Ronaldo in jail and on a rapist list. She wanted money. She had been payed years before a lot of money to keep silent and now, in the back shoulders of the #metoo movement she wanted a lot more money.

I go as far as to say that woman was being completely disrespectful and insulting to other sexual abuse victims that become scarred for life and just want truth and justice restored.

Perpetrators can be victims of other crimes. Victims can be perpetrators of other crimes.

Good people have to be escrutinated. Bad people are not responsible for all the wrongdoings of the world.

And vice-versa.

Equalty.

There are no saints nor monsters. A thousand good deeds dont pay a bad one. A thousand bad deeds dont take the value out of that one good deed you do.

Each case is a different case. You pay your due action by action.

Accountability. Balance. The rule of Law. Justice.

You must never be made into an untouchable angel nor demonized.

Rape, sexual abuse have to be public crimes. They are in my country. And never mean money trading hands in court or online mobs rallied to 'cancel' an individual but instead severe jail time.
As soon as an accusation drops it should not be dependent of charges. It must be immediately investigated.
Did you ever consider the possibility that he did not actually rape her, but that they had consensual sex and she afterwards blackmailed him? Both back then and now?
Someone who demands money never was a victim...
 
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MagnesG

Banned
I keep finding myself asking: why her? To be blunt, she doesn’t seem particularly talented or, and I hate to bring this up, attractive. She has (or had in the past, not sure what she looks like nowadays) a look that I understand some people might find attractive, but she’s not exactly Helen of Troy or anything.

Why are so many people so willing to go to bat for this woman? Why do they pay her bills and read her self-indulgent nonsense and ignore not only the questionable aspects of her stories, but also the actual verifiable evidence of her wrongdoings? How’s that Chuck Tingle game coming Zoe? Any word on that game jam yet?

As far as I can tell she’s made one thing that could technically be called a game, and maybe some comics?

What is it about Zoe Quinn that makes all this nonsense worth it for anybody?
I have theory that she also got some big dirts on these journalists, maybe at least some of them. So out of fear, they had to comply for her mating call.
 
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Arimer

Member
Someone may have said this already but this whole situation to me proves the hypocrisy of Tribalism. Fundamentally what's different between what ERon did to zoe and What zoe did to this Alec guy. Nothing beyond Zoe having zero proof unlike ERon. Assuming that lets say neither ERon nor Zoe was telling a lie lets move on. Now the reaction is where the difference starts. If you spoke negative of Zoe you were a misogynist. community rallies around zoe saying even if she did do those things they don't matter because people are harassing Zoe. But Alec was immediately unpersoned and harassed. and it's ok and justified because he did those things. Remember how dogpiling was a problem when it happened during GG? But not to Alec.

Ultimately when I look at both situations the only thing that stands out to me is The Sexism. The Beneficial Sexism that Zoe benefits from. She's a woman so we must protect her and assume everything she says is true. Even if she is the Assailant we must protect her because women are weak and need the protection from big bad men.

At the end of the day it's just sad that You have a dead guy, A drama magnet and a community that revels in their tribalism. Nothing is learned, It all just feeds into a stupid culture war where everyone knows they are right.
 
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Sleepy Bear

Neo Member
I've been digesting every thread I can find about this tragic unfolding of events for the last however many hours, including several sites I frequent, but this was the first time I've seen the frustrating ways these kinds of discussions are held and moderated in certain places before my own eyes. NeoGAF’s thread is the only one I've read so far that's allowed massive differences of opinion to exist in the same space instead of just locking the thread, but not without criticism or the necessary moderation when needed. Like it is in real life... As it should be. A forum where a discussion is shut down permanently if an individual drastically strays for a second can resemble tactics of an authoritarian regime, even if their motives are simply to ground the train before it crashes into the station. No one wants to see people dancing in the blood of an alleged sex offender, but we’re adult enough to deal with it better than that. I won't shame the house rules when they’re implemented to avoid hateful people transmogrifying well-intentioned rooms into cesspools. I get it, but it’s unfortunate when 99% of the comments were balanced and empathetic.

More to the point, I had hoped to see the conversation continue in my current forums of choice, as someone who has suffered molestation and abuse, and tried to educate myself on not only the psychology behind abusive behaviour, but how to discuss, explain, and—perhaps most vitally—reveal my story in a way that's healthy. In a way that's not an act of revenge, but a means of therapy and support. The “believe women” thing comes across as shameful opportunism, especially as a male sufferer of sexual abuse (so I’m left out? Thanks for the ‘support’). Pushing cult-like slogans on vulnerable people during a sensitive time to encourage irrational ways of thinking is disgraceful. You shouldn't expect people to believe every word you say, even when the crushing loneliness of people not believing the truth only you and your attacker(s) know takes you to the edge of a cliff. It doesn't work that way; justice and healthy recoveries require quality care and a lot of time, not blind faith, wrath and ego-stroking. It helps to be believed, no doubt, but to almost command it sans important qualifiers is Orwellian.

With Alec: the details from his colleague's Kickstarter post, his sister, and Zoe about him pre-treatment sure sound like accurate descriptions of someone with possessive tendencies who became abusive, but he was clearly unstable beneath those alleged traits. The tragedy in this case is that Zoe didn't reveal alleged crimes by unstable, pre-treatment Alec; she revealed them about post-treatment, more stable Alec, which was--going by her continued contact with him and comments by some close to him--a very different person. He tried to do something about it, which is a hell of a lot more than some would have done. People who killed themselves were in need of dire mental care before they died, obviously, which he was also receiving prior to his suicide if I recall (though I’d like more details about that). This wasn’t Polanski running away, this was a flawed person trying to be less flawed. That just makes me sad, even if I don’t believe certain alleged behaviours can truly be corrected. Overlooking that info when it’s convenient is no less immoral than what he's accused of. It would be weak and dishonest to say we shouldn’t expect a tidal wave of shit to erupt if we decide to publicly drop a truth bomb in this way about people in that mental state, and the consequences that follow all involved. We should. Being conscious of that is as paramount as the need to expose the transgressions of others in the most appropriate way we can, and—as people with personal insight into sexual abuse—we must try our best to dissuade the mob mentality before/when it inevitably occurs if we want to prevent further chaos, especially if you have a following. Easier said than done, I know...

Many believe victims only have a duty to oust and tell their story, which is a beautiful albeit rationally empty view, in my opinion. There are far more subtle and confusing obligations intertwined between those pillars, as I touched on above, but it’s hard for some to see it that way, because they aren’t adequately educated about abuse a lot of the time, merely emotional towards its effects, and we feel we must be right when we’re emotional. Whether you take on those less obvious responsibilities is up to you. Being raped can steal your courage and make your reasoning unstable, so it isn't easy, but there can be huge repercussions if you decide not to handle the fallout in any capacity other than how it affects yourself; repercussions you can realize too late that you never wanted, like social media mobs feeding on the entrails of the accuser’s and accused’s families before the word ‘investigation’ is even whispered. It’s fucked, but you have to dissect the details like a hand surgeon to see the entire situation and chaotic domino effect in potentia. None of that means, "Don't tell your story publicly," it means do it better than Zoe does.

Sorry for the long-ass post, I've had a bit of an eye-opener in the last 48 hours. Thanks for reading my thoughts if you got this far!
 
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Saruhashi

Banned
Some of the undisputed things about her... If I did the same, my family, my close friends, my loved ones, my work colleagues... They would crucify me as a liar, a bum, a manipulator, an abusive con artist.

Yuuuuuuuuuup.

Yet, so many in the gaming community are absolutely fucking terrified of acknowledging her shitty behavior.

Call her out and someone will say you are now on the side of GG and they are so hysterical about the very idea of GG that they will just throw you under the bus.

Criticism of ZQ = Support of the boogeyman that everyone has been conditioned to hate and fear SO much

It's crazy when you think about it.

People openly and boldly saying "GG are a bunch of stupid dumbass cunts who live in mommy's basement".
No fear. No repercussions.
They can take swipe after swipe and nothing happens. Why? Why does nothing happen?

Buuut GG is also the most dangerous of dangerous hate groups and if you are a woman in the gaming industry they will come and get you.

It can't REALLY be both though right?

In real life, people don't actually wander around talking shit about local gangs or rival gangs etc IF those gangs are a legitimate threat. You'd get beaten up.

If the way these people presented reality was true then E3 would look like this.

GamerGate vs SJWs - The Battle of E3 2015
 
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Resetera now made a new thread based on the terrible Scott Benson-text and double down on shitting on Alec.

These people are fascists and it must be repeated until everybody got it. They want to censor what they don't like. They care more about feelings than facts. And now they're fine with driving people they deem fit into death/suicide.

I talked about it back then when Hillary's 'deplorables' came to be. Even though I'm far left and hate Trump, I hated that term and how it was used. Because what's endgame of calling people 'deplorables'? Resetera et al have never answered that. What happens when you are in favor of all thos e you disagree with to lose their jobs, to be outcast by society, to lose their worth as a person? What is it you want to happen with these people? The honest would be: DEATH. Because that's what it all leads to. You want them 'away', 'out of sigh', etc.. So you want them to be forced to do the worst jobs, to have no job, and thus basically rot on the street.

That is the truth about what authoritarians like Resetera really wish for. And they have zero remorse about ir, because they believe themselves to be the 'good' side, and as the good ones, it's just to 'defeat' the 'bad' ones. And now they defeated Alec Holowka.

Resetera is a cesspool of shite!!! Asked recently for my account to be deleted.

Even though I was mainly a lurker, I regret leaving GAF in the past but I'm happy to be back here and scroll through sanity for a change.
 
So I read that article by Scott Benson and the first sentence of the last paragraph is “I survived Alec” yea well asshole he didn’t survive this.

It’s even worse he posted this crap on a site no one can comment on or dislike. What a coward and he has the NERVE to say he “cared about Alec” yea well dude people who care about someone don’t write hit pieces on their dead friends before he is even in the damn ground
Yea, I read it too and am completely flabbergasted.

The article is the very definition of victim blaming.

The TLDR for everyone else is that Scott Benson "survived" his good friend Alec's years of "violence" and "abuse" of Alec having deep seeded mental health issues, low self esteem, social anxiety and insular social awkwardness, paranoid "delusions" that his friend's and ex's from his past would stab him in the back, apparently culminating in multiple instances of threatening to enact violence on himself while Scott and other colleagues bravely toiled on the videogame they started together, finishing it against all odds, despite Alec's best attempts to thwart them with his prolonged breaks from work due to his evilness of having debilitating depression.

These long, selfish breaks from work Alec took had an immense pyschological and monetary impact on Scott and other colleagues as they worked extra hard on the game and started getting PTSD and panic attacks from the pressure. Hence, Alec, is the cause of their PTSD and thus was abusing them with his depression and bi-polar ness........ ........,................sjsjjfjfjjgnshhs.....

By the way, many of Alec's most deranged, delusional and paranoid times were apparently around the end of 2014 and 2015. Does anyone remember what was picking up steam around then? Hmm I wonder why he might have been feeling more paranoid that his ex's would come after him around this time...

This article is being celebrated on REeeee.

What the actual fuck did I just read.
 

Chromata

Member
That reminds me of the paradox of tolerance, introduced by Karl Popper last century. In order to be part of a tolerant society, you must not be tolerant of intolerance, as otherwise you'll give intolerant people the tools to silence others and impose their world views by force.

It has been frequently misinterpreted. The same Popper argued that you must not really suppress intolerants, and instead should fight them with arguments, only using force as a measure against violence, for example. It's the philosophy behind the concept of 'hate speech' and the reason why (in its original definition) hate speech refers only to direct calls for violence.

The paradox is usually quoted by extremists who claim to have the right to silence anyone they don't like. They consider being wrong as being the same thing as being intolerant, and they view themselves as the only ones who can possibly be right.

One of the most important posts I've read in this thread. Beautifully put.

This kind of reasoning is also why a central theme of many superhero stories is not to kill or initiate violence (at least, they try to avoid it at all costs). They prevent crime rather than acting as the end-all/be-all of justice and killing based on their whims. The characters that do the latter are the villains.

Interesting how some of these people who think others deserve to die/suffer for having a different viewpoint also call themselves fans of superhero stories.
 

Zangiefy360

Banned
game-of-fear.jpg


What a disgusting human. Fat, tattooed, and a soulless gaze.

I don't know Alec, but I do know he deserved better than being bullied into suicide by this shyster.
 
Did you ever consider the possibility that he did not actually rape her, but that they had consensual sex and she afterwards blackmailed him? Both back then and now?
Someone who demands money never was a victim...


He sent e-mails to his attorney where he (Cristiano) said 'She said no multiple times but she didnt scream'..

I mean, I cant think of him as not a rapist/abuser versus that.

Obviously, Im passing personal judgement not legal judgement.

What matters is the investigation, not what I nor anyone posting on the internet, without us even ever have spoken with either Ronaldo or the girl, think.

Im not crucifying him nor demanding his head, its just a conviction of mine. The only thing that anyone can demand is a serious investigation.

I cant agree with 'if she/someone asks money she/that someone isnt a victim'. People and life arent that linear nor black and white. Sadly, people can be wronged, even grieveously wronged and instead of wanting justice they try to make something out of it.

A less serious example of this: Im a poor guy ever struggling. If tomorrow someone randomly beated me up, even badly, on the streets, I would try to ask for monetary compensation in a court of law before trying to get him to jail, if the law gave me that chance.

The right thing to do though would be get his ass in jail, no?

Its the old saying of if you found a bag of money the right thing to do would be to hand it over to the authorities. But would you really?

Humanity is, for better or worse, like that.

That is, in fact, why we have a law system. People are innocent until proven guilty but you cant expect the best out of them. You have a code by which you have to be judged.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Why did we as human beings allow the internet to wield so much power over us?
It was sometime around when we stopped upholding the mutual anonymity and started putting ourselves onto the internet (really, just another facade, but this time using our real name, real photos, etc). The internet is just a tool. We are making the choice to be destructive to ourselves and to one another.

Conversely, those who choose to build community and to extend graciousness toward internet strangers are the ones who are impervious to the drama.
 

ROMhack

Member
I genuinely read that this morning as 'Sonic comes out as non-binary' and didn't even bat an eyelid :messenger_tears_of_joy:


Why did we as human beings allow the internet to wield so much power over us?

Dunno but people are generally power mad. I'm going to a lot of job interviews at present and it's striking how quickly people are to act like your absolute superiors given the chance.

I get why it happens but it makes no sense as presumably we'll have to work together, not pretend to be father and son for 8 hours a day.
 
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game-of-fear.jpg


What a disgusting human. Fat, tattooed, and a soulless gaze.

I don't know Alec, but I do know he deserved better than being bullied into suicide by this shyster.

Please dont be this guy.
You are better than that.

The fact she is chubby, the fact she has tattoos (really?...) has nothing to do with this. This is a matter of character and character alone. Not appearence like at all, regardless of your personal tastes (I myself find her good looking but what does that matter?!).

You have so many red flags to be angry about...

We are faced with very dangerous levels of lack of reason and respect. Dont contribute to it, please.
 
One of the most important posts I've read in this thread. Beautifully put.

This kind of reasoning is also why a central theme of many superhero stories is not to kill or initiate violence (at least, they try to avoid it at all costs). They prevent crime rather than acting as the end-all/be-all of justice and killing based on their whims. The characters that do the latter are the villains.

Interesting how some of these people who think others deserve to die/suffer for having a different viewpoint also call themselves fans of superhero stories.

"The sleep of Reason produces monsters." -Goya
 
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