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[Kadayi]

tbf CDProyekt games look poor on consoles, i dont expect cyberpunk to be mind blowing on consoles
tw3 was mediocre on consoles imo

Well, they're packing a lot more in, in terms of content being open-world versus a linear levelled experience like TLOU.

The balancing act with gaming tech and hardware considerations is always one of juggling scale, complexity and visual fidelity. For me personally, immersion is driven by situational complexity that sells the believability of the environment in tandem with the narrative over anything else.
I can look at TLOU2 and appreciate what Naughty Dog is going for, and to be fair, given they're dealing with a fairly intimate level of scale it's visually impressive, which is why as I stated earlier I find it kind of jarring that they'd undo all that effort into fidelity by using repeat character models for the enemies.

 

[Geki-D]

Are you sure? Do you want to check my trophies?
I have not played these games for gameplay itself.

This isn't you, is it? Because this guy hasn't even beaten the game on easy.

 

[FranXico]

This isn't you, is it? Because this guy hasn't even beaten the game on easy.

Whoever that person is, it looks like they only bothered with multiplayer. I always find that so odd.
Different tastes and all that.

 

[Geki-D]

Whoever that person is, it looks like they only bothered with multiplayer. I always find that so odd.
Different tastes and all that.

Same for UC4, only MP trophies, hasn't even beaten the game on easy. It would be hilarious if that is the guy, after his "wanna see my trophies?" flex.

 

[Vasto]

Looks awesome for a 30 FPS game.

 

[SonGoku]

Well, they're packing a lot more in, in terms of content being open-world versus a linear levelled experience like TLOU.

The balancing act with gaming tech and hardware considerations is always one of juggling scale, complexity and visual fidelity. For me personally, immersion is driven by situational complexity that sells the believability of the environment in tandem with the narrative over anything else.

I dont think thats the case, their games arent properly designed and optimized around console harware, that why their games look great on PC and poor on consoles.
Both HZD & RDR2 look much more visually impressive on consoles, hell even Days Gone looks much better than TW3.

 

[bumleforce]

So after playing gears 5 and red dead on x which is a more powerful system + god of war. I feel like last of us 2 will only run like this at 30 fps or maybe juat maybe this is running on ps5. If so the ps4 version will look pretty nice still just not that good. Some mite say Sony said it was running on ps4 but lwts not forget killzone on ps2 watchdogs etc. Downgrade incomming

 

[GymWolf]

All that effort just to be undermined by repeat character models

they are not repeated, they are a cult with the same look for everybody and if you look closely, the 2 bold men both have different faces and name.

 

[GymWolf]

I've always felt the race for realism has been at the detriment of gameplay. At that point, why not just watch a movie? I never understand why people feel MORE immersed when you are just doing simple actions to progress a story. After watching that video I still feel the same. Is it impressive how the characters react to one another? Sure. But what is the end goal of all this? Ever wonder why you don't see deep gameplay in a cinematic game? They are trying to get you to play through the game design teams "Vision" of what the game is. Doesn't leave much room for freedom in the gameplay. Sounds like a movie to me.

have you ever played tlou?

 

[DarthBuzzer]

In my opinion, they already surpassed Half-Life 2 with The Last of Us.

To be fair, Valve will probably surpass everyone with their first VR game, because regardless of whether it's actually good or not, they'll nail spatial immersion - and that will be out before The Last of Us 2.

 

[bhunachicken]

I'm now absolutely convinced that TLOU, Part 2 will be launch title on the PS5 (although it will come to PS4 as well).

Since it'll be a cross gen title, 60fps at 4K is a certainty on PS5.

 

[GymWolf]

I think you are talking about the increase in the perceived polygons and details on the envyroments, for example, in WOW when you reach a mountain they feel dwarf because there is no much more detail when you get close to them compared to something like RD2 or even BoTW. Sense of scale it's the term i think and SoTC and TLG are the games to point to as examples.

Edit:

There are new things gameplay wise that you can extract from the gameplay trailer. Now you can hide under cars, that's new. Now you have to dodge melee attacks, that's new. Now attacks can inflict status effects, that's new.....and exploding arrows, that's new too. Maybe i didn't picked up every detail, but those are pretty in your face additions.

Talking about graphics, the rendering while nice is not as impressive as the animation in my opinion, there aren't currently any games that match Uncharted 4's quality and variety of contextual animations and this is going further. I think contextual animations are a pretty big deal because they can make things that usually look very gamey look way more natural. A big recent example of this is DMC5 where running got completly changed in how it looks because of this and dodges also look way better because they got some nice contextual animations.

Edit2: Talking about animation, this is a great talk about how they integrated physics in U4 animations, i particularly like this part where they test the ragdolls on dead enemies lol

that little snips on the dead enemy was superb, i hope they can improve on that for tlou2.
for now the king of realistic dead animations is rdr2 and his euphoria engine (and maybe max payne 3)

 

[DarthBuzzer]

The animations are in top form with The Last of Us 2. The moment where Elly kills the guy at the end is disturbingly smooth.

 

[molasar]

Idk you nor did I say everyone hasn't played it so why are you replying to me. And I quote "alot of ppl"

I agree with you. Some of them might be trolls.

This isn't you, is it? Because this guy hasn't even beaten the game on easy.

No, it is not me.
Usually when I play a game only for its story I choose an easy level of difficulty, but if I enjoy its gameplay then it is a different story.

 

[quickwhips]

To be honest all i care about is last of us 2 multiplayer. I thought the first game was boring but i did beat it.

If they put pay to weapons in multi again im throwing my ps4 away.

 

[Kadayi]

they are not repeated, they are a cult with the same look for everybody and if you look closely, the 2 bold men both have different faces and name.

I'm sure that's the case. Just no blondes allowed though right.

I dont think thats the case, their games arent properly designed and optimized around console harware, that why their games look great on PC and poor on consoles.
Both HZD & RDR2 look much more visually impressive on consoles, hell even Days Gone looks much better than TW3.

You're not really getting what I've said tbh (versus fixated on TW3, which wasn't the point). Pretty much anything can look good on PC because it's an open platform, and the only limit on improvement is how much you're prepared to throw at it in terms of GPU and CPU power. There's zero point talking about console exclusives in that regard.

 

[Hendrick's]

Spacial immersion is wonderful and all, but if your gameplay is rehashed, uninspired and "gamey", it ruins the experience. This was the problem with the first game and I don't expect that to change here.

 

[SonGoku]

You're not really getting what I've said tbh (versus fixated on TW3, which wasn't the point). Pretty much anything can look good on PC because it's an open platform, and the only limit on improvement is how much you're prepared to throw at it in terms of GPU and CPU power. There's zero point talking about console exclusives in that regard.

The point is that cdproyect games look lackluster on consoles
Open world excuse doesnt work, there are 1st and 3rd party open world games that do a much better job on consoles

Even MGS5 which is a crossgen game makes better use of console hardware

 

[Kadayi]

The point is that cdproyect games look lackluster on consoles
Open world excuse doesnt work, there are 1st and 3rd party open world games that do a much better job on consoles

Even MGS5 which is a crossgen game makes better use of console hardware

If you cannot comprehend what's been said, do not enter the conversation. I wasn't defending CDP or TW3, What part of my original point didn't you get? With game development, everything is a trade-off. Sure you can optimise for particular hardware if you're concentrating on an exclusive, but that's not what I'm on about. I'm on about the bigger issue of technical limitations and the trade-off in terms of what you can achieve, when you have to balance say Level of detail versus asset complexity coupled with environmental scope against what you're able to manage in hardware, coupled with game size.

 

[SonGoku]

If you cannot comprehend what's been said, do not enter the conversation.

I do, you are just unhappy with the results
i already brought up examples of open world games (1st and 3rd party) that feature just as much scale and complexity as tw3 (if not more) while having a much better overall presentation on consoles.

Your point is moot.

 

[Kadayi]

I do, you are just unhappy with the results

No, you honestly didn't and you still aren't, because you're still dealing with the now.

 

[SonGoku]

No, you honestly didn't and you still aren't, because you're still dealing with the now.

I did tackle your point
If you disagree with my assessment feel free to provide a counter argument

 

[synchronicity]

Some of us prefer escapism to realism though and after a while, the dick waving and chasing for realism, not just from Sony and it's development studios but from the majority of AAA publishers and studios, just becomes incredibly boring. Realism, with all the modern tools Devs have, from motion and facial capture through to photogrammetry and PBR material pipelines has been a hindrance rather than a help as far as novel, original art direction is concerned... however impressive it may look.
Just my opinion.

Yes, imagination and abstraction are far more fertile territory for engagement for me anyway. I can enjoy games that skew towards realism, but I get far more energized by works that are playful (not necessarily colorful, light-hearted titles) and look to interpret life rather than re-create it.

 

[Kadayi]

I did tackle your point
If you disagree with my assessment feel free to provide a counter argument

What assessment? You didn't engage with what I said in the first place.

In a game, everything has to be created (by the developers and their budget) and everything had to be managed (by the hardware). It is a balancing act. The issue with holding up TLOU2 as some shining example of excellence is that it's a tailored linear exclusive concentrating on particular aspects that don't necessarily translate to universal fare.

The inherent problem with fixating on say (for example) graphical fidelity is that it invariably comes at the cost of something else, whether that be during the creation process or due to the limitations of CPU and system memory.

Comparing Cross-platform titles to Exclusives is like comparing a Land Rover to a Ferrari. Sure the latter will pants the shit out of the former on a straight run, but the former trumps the latter when it comes to overall versatility.

 

[Spukc]

so far gears 5 looks a lot better imo.
i know it's not fair to compare the pro with the x

but i think i am doing the same like i did with the last of us 1
play it on the newer gen.

Like the devs wanted it to look and run.

 

[Gamernyc78]

We are all arm chair analysts on these forums thts why I'm glad there are certain type of awards and professionals tht tackle graphical innovation and fidelity. One thing we know for sure Naughty Dog and Uncharted/TLOU definitely lead tht charge and have received numerous numerous awards for pushing graphics benchmark, taking everything into account regardless if it's open world VS linear VS what we see now linear games with more open spaces.

 

[Danjin44]

I hope ND doesn't go overboard trying make their game "immersive" like R* did with RDR2 and make it not fun to actually play. Good animation in games is balancing act of make them look good while being responsive and feel good to control and R* completely failed on that regard with RDR2, it seems they completely forgot they are making video games.

 

[SonGoku]

In a game, everything has to be created (by the developers and their budget) and everything had to be managed (by the hardware). It is a balancing act.

Yes and other studios do a better job at the balancing act of hw resources on open world games of great scale and complexity
I can see an argument being made that cdprojekt is over reaching and doesn't have enough budget/man power to compete with other AAA open world games when it comes to the polish and presentation of console versions.

If thats where you are getting at I agree.

The issue with holding up TLOU2 as some shining example of excellence is that it's a tailored linear exclusive concentrating on particular aspects that don't necessarily translate to universal fare.

I never disputed this, I reckon open world games are at a disadvantage to push visuals

the inherent problem with fixating on say (for example) graphical fidelity is that it invariably comes at the cost of something else, whether that be during the creation process or due to the limitations of CPU and system memory.

There are open world games that feature just as much scale as tw3 if not more
If the only variables left are graphics fidelity and performance its a fair apples to apples comparison

Comparing Cross-platform titles to Exclusives is like comparing a Land Rover to a Ferrari. Sure the latter will pants the shit out of the former on a straight run, but the former trumps the latter when it comes to overall versatility.

Already provided examples of cross platform open world games that trump tw3
Just to be clear by versatility you mean its on multiple platforms?

Based on cdprojekt previous console efffort im not confident cyberpunk will be all that impressive on consoles. Hope to be wrong on this, maybe cdprojekt got better at console optimization with the experience they had with tw3 and poured more budget as well.

 

[shenmue mugen]

The animations are in top form with The Last of Us 2. The moment where Elly kills the guy at the end is disturbingly smooth.

And it also makes really hard for me to believe that the final product will be like this.
The fluidity of the animations is on a different level.

 

[hunthunt]

Cant wait to find out someday that NaughtyDog is going multiplatform so we can all agree that their games are absolutely fantastic and technically probably the best in the bussines.

 

[Kadayi]

- Noise -

WTF with this obsession of yours with CDP and open-world games? I couldn't give a cunt about CDP or CP2077 or how it may or may not perform on consoles. Again, you're not engaging with what I am discussing versus running it through the filter of your particular fixations.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

And it also makes really hard for me to believe that the final product will be like this.
The fluidity of the animations is on a different level.

I'm guessing that last part is just there to close out the level for the E3 demo, similar to the E3 demo of The Last of Us on the PS3 when Joel shot the guy in the face with his shotgun. Other than that, I'm pretty sure everything else we saw will be in the game.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I hope ND doesn't go overboard trying make their game "immersive" like R* did with RDR2 and make it not fun to actually play. Good animation in games is balancing act of make them look good while being responsive and feel good to control and R* completely failed on that regard with RDR2, it seems they completely forgot they are making video games.

I agree about RDR2 to the point I dropped it fast. Luckily TLOU was awesome imo gameplay wise and was a good marriage between high fidelity graphics for console, stealth, gameplay and action. Like I loved the whole ride. Lost Legacy made me feel tht way too.

 

[Katsura]

Cant wait to find out someday that NaughtyDog is going multiplatform so we can all agree that their games are absolutely fantastic and technically probably the best in the bussines.

I have a ps4 collecting dust for over a year now, i've had it for almost 3 years and yet i still think their games are bad. Are you really so insecure in your own taste that you need a strawman to handle different opinions? As far as i'm concerned, the last time ND made great games was back when they made Jak & Daxter

 

[DeepEnigma]

The wild console collecting dust has appeared.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

As far as i'm concerned, the last time ND made great games was back when they made Jak & Daxter

My favorite Naughty Dog game is Jak & Daxter: The Precursor Legacy. Perfect open world platforming gameplay and I always liked the look of the levels. The Uncharted trilogy on PS3 is pretty good too, and I actually didn't finish The Last of Us the first time I played it but did gain a new appreciation for it after revisiting it.

 

[Riven326]

Serious question for those who have played and completed the first game. Does it get better? I'm about an hour in and I'm bored out of my mind. Don't understand the hype this series has received so far. Is it a slow burn?

 

[TTOOLL]

I haven't played The last of us, but played quite a bit of Uncharted 4. Story and productions are great but gameplay felt like a climbing simulator.

How is the gameplay like in the last of us?

 

[molasar]

The wild console collecting dust has appeared.

 

[SonGoku]

WTF with this obsession of yours with CDP and open-world games? I couldn't give a cunt about CDP or CP2077 or how it may or may not perform on consoles.

The original post I made (that you replied to) was how I don't think cyberpunk was gonna be impressive on consoles based on cdprojekt past console efforts

Again, you're not engaging with what I am discussing

Funny, I thought you where engaging with the initial post I made
Anyways, I agree with your points on linear games, no arguments there.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I have a ps4 collecting dust for over a year now, i've had it for almost 3 years and yet i still think their games are bad. Are you really so insecure in your own taste that you need a strawman to handle different opinions? As far as i'm concerned, the last time ND made great games was back when they made Jak & Daxter

Edgy indeed but of course we are all entitled to our opinions. But there is a consensus and we all know what tht is, the best devs in the industry at what thy do or at minimum one of the best with high meta games tht push industry standards and tons of awards to back it up

 

[Gargus]

I've always felt the race for realism has been at the detriment of gameplay. At that point, why not just watch a movie? I never understand why people feel MORE immersed when you are just doing simple actions to progress a story. After watching that video I still feel the same. Is it impressive how the characters react to one another? Sure. But what is the end goal of all this? Ever wonder why you don't see deep gameplay in a cinematic game? They are trying to get you to play through the game design teams "Vision" of what the game is. Doesn't leave much room for freedom in the gameplay. Sounds like a movie to me.

Immersion will always be greater in games when you're holding the controller, making the decisions, the direct result or defeat or triumph, you're the reason the game is moving forward. Watching a movie is just sitting and watching a movie, you have 0 interaction with the movie and even if you leave the room the movie is still progressing.

A movie is also generally 90 minutes to 120 minutes. A game can be anywhere from 12 to 60 hours. In a game you're exploring a world, moving through it, seeing what's behind that corner that isnt mandatory to see behind. But in a movie you are taken through a world, you never see behind that corner unless the director takes you there for a specific reason, you see only what you forced to see.

Like Detroit become human is essentially a movie but you're controlling the movie and not just watching it. Those 20 hours are spent seeing that world in depths a way a normal movie can't, you make choices that alter the story and characters unlike an movie where it's all static.

Don't know if I am explaining things very well.

 

[Katsura]

Edgy indeed but of course we are all entitled to our opinions. But there is a consensus and we all know what tht is, the best devs in the industry at what thy do or at minimum one of the best with high meta games tht push industry standards and tons of awards to back it up

It's funny because you're resorting to argumentum ad populum while trying your best to act smug. I guess the irony is lost on you

As for the consensus - I'm going to need sources confirming that. Looking at metacritic for example, Nintendo and R* seems to be better

 

[thelastword]

It's funny but everytime you hear people say......

Cinematic games
I'll watch it on Youtube
Simulatorthon (climbing simulator, shooting simulator, cutscene simulator)

You know these are troll attempts ort kids coming out of the woodwork to appear cool and trendy......Trendy as in it's the trendy thing for X fans to say all SWWS games are the same, they're all cinematic games with no gameplay yadda yadda yadda. At this point such statements of "lets try our hardest to make this a meme" or have everybody repeating the same thing is so tired and played out, it's best to ignore things which are not true......

UC series: The only game in that series I was really glued for the story was UC1. Eddy Raja, that Island, Elena, Sully, the mystery behind horror, gold etc......Yet after I beat it the first time, I played it several more times and completed it on crushing at least 3 times it was definitely not the story and cinemas which kept me playing, but the raw awesome and addictive gameplay......Same for UC2, UC3 and UC4...…..

TLOU: Great story, but did the gameplay shine both in SP and in MP, so much depth in the gameplay system......Crafting was done right and revolutionary, enemy types made sense.....It was indeed the best crafted game last gen...….

GOW: And I have one question, who are these kids watching GOW online because there's no gameplay or weak gameplay, only cinemas...You know how much time I spent in the combat rings at Muspelheim or gathering loot in Niflheim which rewards, agility, skill or being able to fight.......Some of the best bossfights this gen were the Valkyries, so much fun and a challenge from normal enemies......Who are these kids who are too skilled to play this so they'd rather watch on youtube…...and not waste their times? Sigrun is a joke for these kids, they'd rather not play this game which require no skill and effort...….

I could go on and on about the different games...….It was never the cinematics which has hooked me, though I've enjoyed them just the same...….It is the gameplay that gives those games a following.......The same can be said of Spiderman, The addictive Days Gone, DC, Horizon Zero Dawn......They all bring a sense of thrill and euporia to the gameplay, that's why people love said games, not because they're sheep or cattle.....

 

[Gamernyc78]

It's funny because you're resorting to argumentum ad populum while trying your best to act smug. I guess the irony is lost on you

As for the consensus - I'm going to need sources confirming that. Looking at metacritic for example, Nintendo and R* seems to be better

Edgy and cool. I won't do the research for you tons of awards, multiple goty's, etc to back up this claim. And also your holy meta And even with tht metas aren't so clear and cut no game has the same amount of reviews, same exact reviewers, etc.

The irony of your comment is definitely not lost on me. But I'll let pseudo professors and arm chair analysts such as yourself continue to make asinine, fallacious points

Smug indeed

 

[molasar]

It's funny but everytime you hear people say......

Cinematic games
I'll watch it on Youtube
Simulatorthon (climbing simulator, shooting simulator, cutscene simulator)

You know these are troll attempts ort kids coming out of the woodwork to appear cool and trendy......Trendy as in it's the trendy thing for X fans to say all SWWS games are the same, they're all cinematic games with no gameplay yadda yadda yadda. At this point such statements of "lets try our hardest to make this a meme" or have everybody repeating the same thing is so tired and played out, it's best to ignore things which are not true......

UC series: The only game in that series I was really glued for the story was UC1. Eddy Raja, that Island, Elena, Sully, the mystery behind horror, gold etc......Yet after I beat it the first time, I played it several more times and completed it on crushing at least 3 times it was definitely not the story and cinemas which kept me playing, but the raw awesome and addictive gameplay......Same for UC2, UC3 and UC4...…..

TLOU: Great story, but did the gameplay shine both in SP and in MP, so much depth in the gameplay system......Crafting was done right and revolutionary, enemy types made sense.....It was indeed the best crafted game last gen...….

GOW: And I have one question, who are these kids watching GOW online because there's no gameplay or weak gameplay, only cinemas...You know how much time I spent in the combat rings at Muspelheim or gathering loot in Niflheim which rewards, agility, skill or being able to fight.......Some of the best bossfights this gen were the Valkyries, so much fun and a challenge from normal enemies......Who are these kids who are too skilled to play this so they'd rather watch on youtube…...and not waste their times? Sigrun is a joke for these kids, they'd rather not play this game which require no skill and effort...….

I could go on and on about the different games...….It was never the cinematics which has hooked me, though I've enjoyed them just the same...….It is the gameplay that gives those games a following.......The same can be said of Spiderman, The addictive Days Gone, DC, Horizon Zero Dawn......They all bring a sense of thrill and euporia to the gameplay, that's why people love said games, not because they're sheep or cattle.....

Different strokes for different folks.
None of games you mentioned has made or could make me to play it on its gameplay alone. I have not played GoW, Spiderman and Days Gone yet, but I like them for other reasons .
The last ones that could, as far as I remember, were Ace Combat: Assault Horizon (reason -dog fight mode) and Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance (reason -Zandatsu) in category of 3D third person perspective games with a free camera control.

 

[Katsura]

Edgy and cool. I won't do the research for you tons of awards, multiple goty's, etc to back up this claim. And also your holy meta And even with tht metas aren't so clear and cut no game has the same amount of reviews, same exact reviewers, etc.

The irony of your comment is definitely not lost on me. But I'll let pseudo professors and arm chair analysts such as yourself continue to make asinine, fallacious points

Smug indeed

The only one being fallacious here is you. You haven't made a single valid point so far. You're even using fallacious wrong

 

[Gamernyc78]

The only one being fallacious here is you. You haven't made a single valid point

Righttttt. You win sir

 

[Geki-D]

The wild console collecting dust has appeared.

Always at least one.

 

[Katsura]

Righttttt. You win sir

I'm glad you agree