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VR not a focus of Project Scarlett, says Phil Spencer

iconmaster

Banned


What happened then Phil?


Technically VR and AR are distinct (though of course there is some technological commonality). In AR you can still see people around you, so it may evade the "isolating" criticism Phil levies against VR.

Edit: Great point by Hoeg --



Probably the Xbox team didn't decide "VR is isolating, let's not pursue it." They decided it wasn't worth the resources at this time, for whatever business-y reason, and are now offering ad hoc justifications for that decision.
 
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Mattyp

Gold Member
124 kinect games over 2 generations vs 1000's of VR games on multiple platforms. even PSVR has over 200 games itself. Try harder.

I understand how people being burned with kinect would look at VR and worry.

And still probably not even 1% of steam owners have VR for those thousands of games. No one gives a shit about VR yet.
 

gifgaf

Member
And still probably not even 1% of steam owners have VR for those thousands of games. No one gives a shit about VR yet.
1% of 100 million is still 1 million, that's not taking into account the over 4 million on PSVR and Oculus users who do not use steam and these are conservative guesses. I have never said its huge numbers but its far away from death.

Funny how I keep hearing "no one gives a shit about VR" except maybe the users who play VR? they seem pretty passionate to me, most people who "don't give a shit about VR" haven't even experienced good VR never mind own one.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Ah ok, I'll make sure that I don't get cocky and overdo it then, especially since I haven't tried a game where you walk. I'm guessing I'll have to play RE7 in smaller bursts then.

I absolutely loved every second of my hour with Wipeout VR and instantly fell in love with the tech. I do own the game already on PS4 so had some experience with the tracks already but the sense of speed in VR was unbelievable. I also don't usually play in cockpit view as I find it pretty difficult but in VR I found it much easier than I usually do. It just felt like I had a better view and I felt way more 'connected' with the vehicle. I just fell into a kind of trance and felt completely immersed in the experience.

I know it was only an hour but it was def one of my favourite gameplay experiences this gen so far. I can't wait to play more and try out different experiences as well.

Comments from a Gaffer in the PSVR thread. For some reason half the people here don't even want Xbox gamers to have similar experiences. Weird...


Did you read what I said? Is Vive or Oculus VR 3rd party? Yes it is, yes it is (y)

Yeah I missed that part lol. But it doesn't look like Phil wants that either.

Smart? so not focusing on VR = Not supporting VR in any way?

Don't bring intelligence to the subject if you're not going to use it.

Because of what Phil Spencer said. His quote shows that he's against VR for the Xbox brand.
 

lukilladog

Member
Spencer’s words will piss off VR evangelists, who will try and spin random numbers and data to disprove what he says... but suffice it to say that Spencer and Microsoft have their own data points to make the determination that VR just isn’t making enough of a debt with the majority of video gaming consumers for them to give a rat’s ass about.

Of course, management in these companies have access to much better information than the general public, and when they are not compromised pushing agendas they will spill the beans... like CDPR just did:

""I know there are a few titles here and there that usually showcase [VR] but I have not heard of anybody building an actual valid business on VR so far." "

 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
The advancement of VR tech is the only moderately interesting thing to me about this current era of gaming

It sure as hell isn't the games

Guess I can safely ignore Microsoft for the next seven years...Thanks Phil good to know!
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Good for me.
I tried oculus, vive and psvr.
It was terrible for me.
It gaves me headaches and motion sickness (which I never had even on a boat with bad sea conditions)

other than that i think it needs more full aaa games.
I will try half life anyway.

VRless Scarlett is good Scarlett.


That's me as well. I thought VR was a great idea until I tried Vive or Occulus (can't remember which) a few E3s ago and HATED it. I game for long periods at a time and after about 5 minutes I wanted rip the stupid goggles off and stomp on them.

I definitely don't want MS or their 1st parties to devote resources to VR. That said I think it would be good as others have suggested in here to allow 3rd party headset & game developers to make it available for those that DO want VR. More choices are always better.
 
I'm not sure why posters are comparing Vr and Kinect?

Kinect:

  • Cash grab to bring in some of the Wii-Pie
  • No games, almost literally, came out for Kinect, not even a Time Crisis or House of the Dead copy
  • Studios butchered and forced to make what little content there was for it (Fable: on rails)
  • Technology didn't work, objectively and most of the showings at E3 were rehearsed, not using a live Kinect
  • Didn't work with black people
  • Required a large open space and didn't offer sitting down experiences
  • A spy device, always listening, always watching
  • Borked the Xbox One due to required connectivity at all times
  • Gamers didn't want, it was forced on them, escpecially with the launch of the Xbox One
Vr:

  • Optional peripheral
  • 1000's of games, mods and educational software available, often free (Go fly around the solar system in VR)
  • Studios free to add VR or not (No Man's Sky)
  • Technology can cause nausea, sea-sickness in a minority set of cases.
  • Works with black people, doesn't work with blind people
  • Some games require a large space, some require motion tracking. The majority offer sofa play with a controller
  • Not a spy device
  • Helped PS4 sell more consoles and games
  • Gamers want it as an option.
Apples and oranges if you ask me.

I expect Microsoft to be watching HR:Alyx and PSVR2 very closely. They will grab a piece of that VR pie if the pie gets large enough
 
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nikolino840

Member
I'm not sure why posters are comparing Vr and Kinect?

Kinect:

  • Cash grab to bring in some of the Wii-Pie
  • No games, almost literally, came out for Kinect, not even a Time Crisis or House of the Dead copy
  • Studios butchered and forced to make what little content there was for it (Fable: on rails)
  • Technology didn't work, objectively and most of the showings at E3 were rehearsed, not using a live Kinect
  • Didn't work with black people
  • Required a large open space and didn't offer sitting down experiences
  • A spy device, always listening, always watching
  • Borked the Xbox One due to required connectivity at all times
  • Gamers didn't want, it was forced on them, escpecially with the launch of the Xbox One
Vr:

  • Optional peripheral
  • 1000's of games, mods and educational software available, often free (Go fly around the solar system in VR)
  • Studios free to add VR or not (No Man's Sky)
  • Technology can cause nausea, sea-sickness in a minority set of cases.
  • Works with black people, doesn't work with blind people
  • Some games require a large space, some require motion tracking. The majority offer sofa play with a controller
  • Not a spy device
  • Helped PS4 sell more consoles and games
  • Gamers want it as an option.
Apples and oranges if you ask me.

I expect Microsoft to be watching HR:Alyx and PSVR2 very closely. They will grab a piece of that VR pie if the pie gets large enough
You can delete the spy part..............
 

nikolino840

Member
I would. If it wasn't true.
IMG_20140316_151349.jpg
 

It's funny. People used to say that to me when I said cover your laptop camera up because people can hack it and watch you. Same with your phone camera and mic.

The Kinect was always on and always listening (Part of the design of being able to turn your xbox on with voice commands) and in the ToS, Microsoft stated that they can and will use recordings of your voice, even when the xbox was disconnected, and send any information to the law enforcement of your country, if needs be.

Microsoft were picking up on keywords like "Nike", "Mcdonalds" and using those phrases for targetted adds.

Germany kicked off and declared it a spy device back in 2012~, though i can't find the original reports from Merkel (As a kinect was used in her home and there were fears that it was leaking information about allies)

Finally, if you want to go super tinfoil hat, Microsoft, Facebook and Google, were part of a leaked set of documents that showed that these companies were working with the NSA for data collection and gathering.

Though i'm not sure why you're defending a dead and defective piece of electronic equipment?
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
With that thinking expensive consoles and equivalent pc specs and subscription services aren't the way forward either, they should just make mobile games that work on $50 smartphones or release a "mini" level console so everyone can play. Abstractly choosing cut off points on what becomes "too niche" or "too expensive" to bother just to favor one company's decision over another's is quite silly and a futile exercise loaded with confirmation bias. Why does anyone need to defend Microsoft for its decision anyway and why would an actual gamer care for such things, we all have played and liked unpopular (and therefor niche) by the mainstream games at some point, lol. Consoles, especially if separated by platform holder (which they should be, Microsoft doesn't benefit from people who went on competitor systems), are super niche compared to other markets too btw. Nobody said MS should only ever make VR games starting today after all, but just as the guy acknowledges the potential for its future, so should MS and actually, you know, maybe dabble in it rather than let everyone overtake them. The hardware's growing cheaper and better by the day and the day that it becomes approachable enough by anyone's random subjective standards could be as soon as mid next gen as far as consoles are concerned, we'll see what Sony manages to put out, hopefully at least Rift S level hardware overall (better here, equal there, worse there, etc, but overall), and if the pricing remains as low as the current PSVR's (or eventually gets there before the generation's end). The PC side is already there as a rapidly matured platform as far as I'm concerned and stand alone sets are also there with Quest though future iterations will make it even more enticing, Petrae Petrae and everyone else agreeing with the above and adding their random bullshit (fad etc. which Mat never says, you can't be in agreement if you say wholly different bullshit, duh) on top, lol. At one point MS was throwing money at Xbox to make it work, lol, and it didn't, for years and years, but you were ok with that. Hell, all first parties threw money at a market they didn't have at one point, consoles weren't always a thing. Edit: at least some at microsoft know what they're doing.
And nobody cares if that's only gonna be used by the 10% of users just as nobody cares if MSFS is only bought by 10% of PC users, it's the stuff dreams are made of, it's what games (and sims) are all about. Now if only their VR implementation is as good as VTOL VR's we're all set for the next decade as far as sims go.
 
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pr0cs

Member
Consoles just don't have the power to do vr right. Yeah yeah ps4 vr has some cool titles but I can't help but think they're really hamstrung by the hardware.
Personally I'd rather the self contained version of the Quest if I wanted 'gimped' vr or pc spec vr if I wanted a better experience.
 

Petrae

Member




VR is niche.


It’s only funny to me because the industry keeps trying and trying to make VR a mass thing, and it’s just not gonna be. There can (and likely will) still be a nice niche market for VR, but the mass market doesn’t give a FUCK. All of the excuses are for naught. Throwing a ton of cash at a niche fad-like option that data shows isn’t expanding fast enough and isn’t gaining any notable interest despite the advertising campaigns from current competitors is arguably a waste of money, time, and resources.

It unfortunately never occurs to the VR evangelism crowd that maybe— just maybe— people by and large just don’t care about VR and don’t have any interest in trying it. They don’t want to be converted or lectured to. They prefer playing video games in a more traditional fashion, and there’s nothing wrong with maintaining what isn’t broken.
 
Please . they have a 40MM base, and if it is compatible with PC, much larger than that.

VR is still a non-player, from both a hardware and game POV.

No sense wasting time, effort and money on something that does not provide a significant return.
facts.... and MS can with a simple update of scarlett make scarlett compatible with any VR headsetmsystem which works with Windows 10..... Sony cant.
 

magnumpy

Member
so next gen xbox won't do VR. sony does VR now, PC does it now, and there are indications that will continue into the future for both. basically nothing changes, continuing with the status quo.
 
Seriously?
I was not aware of this problem.

It could have been internet mumbo jumbo, as this was before the days of the twitter storm and SJW, but yes, several outlets reported issues with non-white users. Something to do with the camera not being able to distinguish between dark skin and depth.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Yeah focus on making good games first and foremost and bringing us some fresh new ips.

Let Sony innovate in tht field and have something tht seperate them from other consoles.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Real innovators don't wait for the market to be begging for something before you do it. If you believe in the product or vision, you make it happen and then wait for the consumers to "buy" in. Steve Jobs didn't wait until the world was begging for an iPad. They just made it. Same for smart watches.

Seriously lol, good point. By this way of thinking Microsoft wouldn't have invested in bc as bc is niche feature if u look at overall numbers.
 

Romulus

Member
Being a niche isn't a bad thing when its filled with enthusiasts. The piece of the pie will only grow too with huge titles like Half Life.

Every month I'm demoing VR to new people and they're buying headsets, so alot of it just ignorance. They come in thinking it's just "a screen close to your face" and walk away amazed at what it can do.
 

Stuart360

Member
Used to be a supporter of VR after trying the Oculus dev kit years ago, but couldnt care less now. The vast majority of games are exactly what i feared, crappy 30min long eye toy style shite. My hope of playing 'real' games on a controller, and using VR soley for the visual immersion, looks like it will never happen.
VR will never be mainstream imo.
 

Three

Member
Technically VR and AR are distinct (though of course there is some technological commonality). In AR you can still see people around you, so it may evade the "isolating" criticism Phil levies against VR.

Edit: Great point by Hoeg --



Probably the Xbox team didn't decide "VR is isolating, let's not pursue it." They decided it wasn't worth the resources at this time, for whatever business-y reason, and are now offering ad hoc justifications for that decision.

Yeah, it's what PR & Spencer does.
 
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Romulus

Member
Used to be a supporter of VR after trying the Oculus dev kit years ago, but couldnt care less now. The vast majority of games are exactly what i feared, crappy 30min long eye toy style shite. My hope of playing 'real' games on a controller, and using VR soley for the visual immersion, looks like it will never happen.
VR will never be mainstream imo.

Not sure which games you're playing, but my backlog is full of high quality games with and without a gamepad.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Not sure which games you're playing, but my backlog is full of high quality games with and without a gamepad.

Come on you know the poster. If Microsoft would be pushing it he'd be all in. Don't fall for tht. He's seen the lists tht include Astrobot, Truth and Blood, Moss, Firewall, etc all standalone games tht are better than alot of non VR games and have length and great production.
 

Stuart360

Member
Come on you know the poster. If Microsoft would be pushing it he'd be all in. Don't fall for tht. He's seen the lists tht include Astrobot, Truth and Blood, Moss, Firewall, etc all standalone games tht are better than alot of non VR games and have length and great production.
What?, i have zero interest in VR anymore?, and i'm a PC gamer where the VR machines have tons more games than on console. I have mentioned tons of times how i feel about VR in the past on here.
Also just because i call Sony fanboys out for their tiresome trolling, doesnt make me a Xbox fanboy, i dont even own a console.
 

Codes 208

Member
VR >>>>>>>>>>> Streaming

Phil showing his true self, full of shit.
This seems like a rather apples to oranges argument. Streaming (so far) quality-wise has been ass but its also readily available on just about every platform whereas VR requires dedicated hardware, frequently expensive, to run a handful of games.
 
I would like to see the attach rate of Vr of people who try : people who buy.

Set a VR headset up in Game, with an FPS shooter or modded VR Skyrim and watch those headsets sell-out in no time.
 

Stuart360

Member
I would like to see the attach rate of Vr of people who try : people who buy.

Set a VR headset up in Game, with an FPS shooter or modded VR Skyrim and watch those headsets sell-out in no time.
I said to do that years ago, when i was still onboard the VR bandwagon. It was said they couldnt do that though because of hygeine reasons. It would be a way to shift systems though as that initial first time VR experience can be mindblowing.
 

alienator

Member
i find it kind of funny , i find it kind of sad

In an interview with AVSIM, the Head of Microsoft’s upcoming next generation Flight Simulator stated that the team will “try our darnedest” to add VR support.
“Right after the E3 trailer came out there was a lot of people making that exact assumption, that ‘oh yeah this better be supporting VR right from the get go’. It honestly wasn’t our plan. But we are listening, and we heard it, so we will try our darnedest to make it happen. Whether or not we’re going to pull it off for launch, we can’t commit to that at this point in time, but we are aware of the desire […] We will try to prioritize that over other things.”
I find it hard to tell you, I find it hard to take
When people run in circles it's a very very
Mad world
 
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