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[DeepEnigma]

Everybody has current gen games to sell. When PS5 XSX comes out, there will still be current gen games to sell. Ghost looked good, but it's in-game cinematics. It's not representative of what the game will look like on screen. And the PS4Pro version isn't going to be much different than Sekiro. I must say though, I will wait for the PC version *IF* it comes out later. I love the Japan setting and Sekiro was just too hard for me tbh.

You addressed nothing of what I said. MS has seemingly zero AAA games until Halo at Scarlet launch.

That is almost a year of nothing for them to put their brand out there with. It is just a "wait for Scarlet, please, thank you".

Sony is not in any "bad position" because of last night, at all. They will only be in a bad position if they fuck up themselves with the messaging on reveal.

There is a reason both Sony and Nintendo have found enormous success with their platforms.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You addressed nothing of what I said. MS has seemingly zero AAA games until Halo at Scarlet launch.

That is almost a year of nothing for them to put their brand out there with. It is just a "wait for Scarlet, please, thank you".

Sony is not in any "bad position" because of last night, at all. They will only be in a bad position if they fuck up themselves with the messaging on reveal.

There is a reason both Sony and Nintendo have found enormous success with their platforms.

You are thinking and defending too much. Sit back and be agnostic for a minute.

I'm not concerned about the exclusives. I'm talking about showing the hardware and giving up the specs. We've heard from Tom already. We've got articles on some of the specs. We have a reveal of how the hardware looks.

We have NOTHING on Sony except some devkits. Not even quotes like "PS5 will be 2x faster than PS4Pro.." We have NOTHING to go on.

So I'm talking about from the perspective of the hardware. Not the software.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You are thinking and defending too much. Sit back and be agnostic for a minute.

I'm not concerned about the exclusives. I'm talking about showing the hardware and giving up the specs. We've heard from Tom already. We've got articles on some of the specs. We have a reveal of how the hardware looks.

We have NOTHING on Sony except some devkits. Not even quotes like "PS5 will be 2x faster than PS4Pro.." We have NOTHING to go on.

So I'm talking about from the perspective of the hardware. Not the software.

And you are projecting too much. We can go in circles.

No specs were revealed, other than Spencer saying "2 times the Xbox One X" (and that is PR speak, not specs). We still read far more information from the two Wired articles than the depth of Scarlet specs they just copy/pasta for their E3 vid. Everything else is words Tom is putting into people's mouths.

And I am trying to tell you, that this will not hurt them because the fanbase still has those first party games to occupy their time until the reveal. I am not worried about specs yet, at all. It is a year off. Would I like them, sure, but this does not impact them in the grand scheme of things.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Maybe it won't DeepEnigma . We are all just talking here man. I'm not trying to convince you of my train of thought.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe it won't DeepEnigma . We are all just talking here man. I'm not trying to convince you of my train of thought.

I will admit, we are all hungry, it is why we do what we do posting in enthusiasts boards, but I do not feel it will hurt them overall with the "normie crowds", or even the fans, etc..

They seem to be following the same PS4 reveal pattern.

 

[nowhat]

True, but MS has shown far more than Sony. If it were me, I would have never shown a GB title as my first PS5 reveal. That shows me a lot of the current state of new developments (i.e. not show worthy). I know a few companies are working OT on these last gen PS4 titles but nothing else. I'm sure their hardware is spec'd out and built already. It would've been nice to see their reveal as well.

I can sorta understand where you're coming from, a customer/community perspective, but here's the thing - while corporations may be people, they sure as hell ain't your friends. Ultimately it's money that talks, and both companies are in very different position business-wise.

(and just in case, as a disclaimer - I'm not trying to instigate platform wars of any kind, this is just looking at both companies from a business point of view)

Microsoft would probably like the next generation to start as soon as possible (hardware availability permitting, although the holiday market is always lucrative so it's a good launch window). They have invested heavily in their own studio portfolio, and that's commendable. By all accounts, the studios are given the resources and also the time they need to make the games they want. But it's a lengthy process - it's great that MS isn't rushing them, but not much is to be expected before the launch of Xbox Series X. So understandably their messaging is "Look, here's a new console! It's more powerful than you've ever seen! And here's a sequel to a very highly rated game to go along with it!"

Sony, on the other hand, hasn't been nearly as vocal. Though they did release at least some rudimentary specs of their upcoming console before MS, didn't they? While not much, people still know that there's something new coming. But before that happens, there are two and a half (TLoU2, GoT and to a lesser extent Dreams - the concept is super cool, but I don't see it having the same mainstream appeal as the other two) heavyweight first-party titles coming out. And third-party (console) exclusives like FFVII remake. Sony surely doesn't want the next console to cannibalize current-gen sales, so marketing them as current-gen makes total sense (even if they could be played on the next console just the same). I really don't see that Gearbox-published game (forgot the name already) as spearheading the launch lineup, just that if Gearbox wants to advertise their new game coming to the next console, why not let them. I wouldn't worry too much yet. My crystal ball shows a hardware reveal around Feb/Mar and at least some of the actual launch lineup being revealed at E3 (or thereabouts, if Sony doesn't participate).

Currently, it just doesn't make that much financial sense for Sony to really go all-in on the next generation. It may suck, and sure, I'd like to know more of the hardware/games too, but that's corporations for you.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Well, I told you, do not believe Logvinov. He is a schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur. Though, I see there's one here, too.

Sony is still pissing me off. They have shown NOTHING = 0 = nadda = zelch towards anything they are working on. That's very infuriating and I let my sources know that.

Stop your shit already. You don't know anything, you don't have any real sources. You just sit there and wonder. After all, you have not mentioned a single fact that would come true. You didn't give us any information that suggested anything. The performance of the gpu in consoles is not higher than GTX1080? This is not true and today we learned about it. Sony is interested in the PC market and will even show some love for it? It's not really noticeable, you know. NOT A SINGLE FACT! Why would anyone believe you after that? You lie like a Logvinov. You just jumped out on a wave of hype and began to talk loudly about what you have no idea, but have sources that told you so much about... Nothing. You looked like a PC retarded guy the whole time. That's why for your nonsense and fanaticism you got a ban era. People like Jason Schreier have real insights, they're professionals. Who are you? You kicked down the door and started pacing back and forth, telling stories. Made-up fairy tales, sucked out of a finger. And for exactly the same reason you got a ban on the era. Although there is not the most pleasant place, fanaticism quickly flies for lies. And this is fair, it seems to me. You’re still laughing there. A very popular guy in tight circles.

 

[Siri]

Red Driver, let it go. Just block him, for God’s sake.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Red Driver, let it go. Just block him, for God’s sake.

Ok, I'm finished with it.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Stop your shit already. You don't know anything, you don't have any real sources. You just sit there and wonder. After all, you have not mentioned a single fact that would come true. You didn't give us any information that suggested anything. The performance of the gpu in consoles is not higher than GTX1080? This is not true and today we learned about it. Sony is interested in the PC market and will even show some love for it? It's not really noticeable, you know. NOT A SINGLE FACT! Why would anyone believe you after that? You lie like a Logvinov. You just jumped out on a wave of hype and began to talk loudly about what you have no idea, but have sources that told you so much about... Nothing. You looked like a PC retarded guy the whole time. That's why for your nonsense and fanaticism you got a ban era. People like Jason Schreier have real insights, they're professionals. Who are you? You kicked down the door and started pacing back and forth, telling stories. Made-up fairy tales, sucked out of a finger. And for exactly the same reason you got a ban on the era. Although there is not the most pleasant place, fanaticism quickly flies for lies. And this is fair, it seems to me. You’re still laughing there. A very popular guy in tight circles.

I don't know what your issues are with me but I'm not some tooth fairy nor claimed to be. My friends don't tell me details because it can get them fired. And the little stuff I do know I'm not risking that. You can believe I don't have any real sources and that's your choice. I could care less. I am not buddies with the mods here and evidently the "real" information I've given them has convinced them to give me my title. So there's that...

I told you the general hardware specs which nearly every gaming "speculation" article says. Concerning the 1080 performance, I have been given a range and it appears to be correct from what we are seeing on the web.

I don't lie about anything. There is no point to it. I don't have any horse in this race and am certainly not a zealot of any hardware manufacturer. I don't take things personally.

As far as ERA goes, they have a LOT of zealots. I have said nothing to warrant a ban nor do I care one bit about ERA. They aren't the only forums in the world.

Take your friends' advice and block me. I think it would do us both a favor. I don't have time to argue with a console zealot.

 

[Xmengrey]

IMO, they are just too quiet. It's not just me. There are several threads on Sony's silence. Don't kill the messenger.

Hey VFX I apologize I think I caused you undue panic This guy is Simon Laroche I believe he joined Sony in 2018
He worked on Watch Dogs 2, Rainbow Six Siege, Splinter Cell and a bunch of other third party titles he just recently joined Sony and is inside Guerilla Games working on a New Multiplayer title

Guerrilla Games Hiring for Multiplayer Project Headed by Rainbow Six Siege Director

What’s next for PlayStation-exclusive developer Guerrilla Games? A new job listing may provide a big hint!

wccftech.com

Which BTW could come to PC

Multiplayer PlayStation games will come to PC and other devices says Sony's Shawn Layden

Wonder when they'll show up.

www.windowscentral.com

Yeah I know it's Shawn Layden not current CEO Jim Ryan but I doubt the plans have changed I mean MLB the Show is coming to other platforms so there is that

Though this is speculation on my part but it's possible Simon wouldn't really know what is going on over at the Horizon Zero Dawn team I mean it's not something he really would have to know and likely to prevent leaks only people who need to know what is going on with X project would be told.

Guerilla has like 400 employees and growing, 250 employees will probably be working on HZD 2, the rest will be working on the new untitled multiplayer IP directed by Simon Laroche, and few of them like maybe 30-40 of those employees could be working on HZDs PC Port and the Death Stranding PC Port.

Unless it comes from the producer of HZD/HZD2(‎Lambert Wolterbeek Muller) or the game director of HZD(Mathijs de Jonge) I'm not so sure Simon can confirm or deny either way and it's entirely possible that neither Lambert or Mathijs have even talked to Simon about anything let alone a PC Port of HZD, hell they might not have even talked to him about the sequel.



If the deconfirmation came from the producer or director of HZD then the rumor is dead but from Simon who could easily just be trolling us not just yet.

It's possible that employees under Simon working on his project could know about the PC Port and sequel to HZD as there may be crossover where some people on the HZD team could be drafted to work on the New IP Simon is directing but it's entirely possible that those employees would be told not to say anything to anyone in Simon's team probably to prevent leaks since Simon or anyone working on the New IP doesn't need to know that a PC Port or even a sequel to HZD is coming as it's not relevant to what he's working on.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Hey VFX I apologize I think I caused you undue panic This guy is Simon Laroche I believe he joined Sony in 2018
He worked on Watch Dogs 2, Rainbow Six Siege, Splinter Cell and a bunch of other third party titles he just recently joined Sony and is inside Guerilla Games working on a New Multiplayer title

Guerrilla Games Hiring for Multiplayer Project Headed by Rainbow Six Siege Director

What’s next for PlayStation-exclusive developer Guerrilla Games? A new job listing may provide a big hint!

wccftech.com

Which BTW could come to PC

Multiplayer PlayStation games will come to PC and other devices says Sony's Shawn Layden

Wonder when they'll show up.

www.windowscentral.com

Yeah I know it's Shawn Layden not current CEO Jim Ryan but I doubt the plans have changed I mean MLB the Show is coming to other platforms so there is that

Though this is speculation on my part but it's possible Simon wouldn't really know what is going on over at the Horizon Zero Dawn team I mean it's not something he really would have to know and likely to prevent leaks only people who need to know what is going on with X project would be told.

Guerilla has like 400 employees and growing, 250 employees will probably be working on HZD 2, the rest will be working on the new untitled multiplayer IP directed by Simon Laroche, and few of them like maybe 30-40 of those employees could be working on HZDs PC Port and the Death Stranding PC Port.

Unless it comes from the producer of HZD/HZD2(‎Lambert Wolterbeek Muller) or the game director of HZD(Mathijs de Jonge) I'm not so sure Simon can confirm or deny either way and it's entirely possible that neither Lambert or Mathijs have even talked to Simon about anything let alone a PC Port of HZD, hell they might not have even talked to him about the sequel.



If the deconfirmation came from the producer or director of HZD then the rumor is dead but from Simon who could easily just be trolling us not just yet.

It's possible that employees under Simon working on his project could know about the PC Port and sequel to HZD as there may be crossover where some people on the HZD team could be drafted to work on the New IP Simon is directing but it's entirely possible that those employees would be told not to say anything to anyone in Simon's team probably to prevent leaks since Simon or anyone working on the New IP doesn't need to know that a PC Port or even a sequel to HZD is coming as it's not relevant to what he's working on.

No worries man. I thought HZD would be announced last night too. Texted my contacts saying how mad I was there was no reveal and I heard crickets. When pressing the matter of no responses, I just get "I'm really busy..". Not going to press the issue anymore. These guys are under a lot of pressure and I can understand them not wanting leaks to get out. I'm ok with that. It'll be revealed or debunked soon enough. My excitement came when I sent that twitter feed about HZD being announced for PC and getting simply, "there will be more." And that's it.

I worked on the matrix movies back in 2002 and told people to expect the Matrix Reloaded trailer during the halftime Superbowl game. I signed my name under the post telling my job title and company. The next day I was in the CEO's office being yelled at for just that small detail. Didn't get fired because they needed me, but still was a very very scary experience.

 

[Xmengrey]

No worries man. I thought HZD would be announced last night too. Texted my contacts saying how mad I was there was no reveal and I heard crickets. When pressing the matter of no responses, I just get "I'm really busy..". Not going to press the issue anymore. These guys are under a lot of pressure and I can understand them not wanting leaks to get out. I'm ok with that. It'll be revealed or debunked soon enough. My excitement came when I sent that twitter feed about HZD being announced for PC and getting simply, "there will be more." And that's it.

I worked on the matrix movies back in 2002 and told people to expect the Matrix Reloaded trailer during the halftime Superbowl game. I signed my name under the post telling my job title and company. The next day I was in the CEO's office being yelled at for just that small detail. Didn't get fired because they needed me, but still was a very very scary experience.

If what your saying is true then I suspect the person that leaked it to you probably was someone who heard it from a member of the team that is doing the port or someone else who would actually be in the know.
It's very possible that this person wouldn't be working on the New multiplayer IP Guerilla Games is working on, they may just be a contractor working on the port, or part of the HZD team working on the port then be moved to the sequel.
So Simon possibly wouldn't know anything unless he was told but then again I don't know why he would be told.

 

[daninthemix]

No worries man. I thought HZD would be announced last night too. Texted my contacts saying how mad I was there was no reveal and I heard crickets. When pressing the matter of no responses, I just get "I'm really busy..". Not going to press the issue anymore. These guys are under a lot of pressure and I can understand them not wanting leaks to get out. I'm ok with that. It'll be revealed or debunked soon enough. My excitement came when I sent that twitter feed about HZD being announced for PC and getting simply, "there will be more." And that's it.

I worked on the matrix movies back in 2002 and told people to expect the Matrix Reloaded trailer during the halftime Superbowl game. I signed my name under the post telling my job title and company. The next day I was in the CEO's office being yelled at for just that small detail. Didn't get fired because they needed me, but still was a very very scary experience.

Wait, so you're saying the PC port might be an actual thing? I'm so confused.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Bwahaha, this is very funny to read. Somewhere they heard, because someone said, he blurted out simply at random. And that's it, for some people this is enough to start fantasizing ad infinitum, to search for meaning where it does not exist. Conduct endless investigations about the release of HZD on a PC (because Death Stranding will come out, huh) And of course, a developer who has been in the studio for a year and a half has not known anything and is just a troll. But other types of insiders know. Cherry on the cake. This is insanity bordering on idiocy.

 

[Xmengrey]

Bwahaha, this is very funny to read. Somewhere they heard, because someone said, he blurted out simply at random. And that's it, for some people this is enough to start fantasizing ad infinitum, to search for meaning where it does not exist. Conduct endless investigations about the release of HZD on a PC (because Death Stranding will come out, huh) And of course, a developer who has been in the studio for a year and a half has not known anything and is just a troll. But other types of insiders know. Cherry on the cake. This is insanity bordering on idiocy.

I never called Simon just a troll I just said that since he wouldn't need to know HZD would be coming to PC, it's possible he honestly doesn't know about HZD coming to PC.
Other types of insiders could know because they heard it from people that would actually need to know about the PC Port of HZD since that would be their job.
Guerilla Games is a big company within Sony and there would need to be some safeguards in


place to make sure that information doesn't end up leaking on the internet now of course those safeguards can fail and the info comes out and it could be hard to narrow down who did it but the less people that know the better to contain any potential leaks.
I also said he may have been poking fun and trolling, he seems to have fun on twitter but he won't confirm or deny anything especially since he probably couldn't do either anyway.

EDIT VFXVeteran Yeah asked Simon on twitter and yeah I think we can think he's just trolling us now. He also unliked the comment asking him if he's deconfirming anything or not gonna say either way and liked the one that was asking if he wasn't gonna say either way or actually knew what was going on.

Jason Schreier (Kotaku): “I can’t put the Horizon: Zero Dawn PC rumor to rest; it’s a possibility”

So this gets more interesting. Horizon on PC would be aces—were it to ever happen.

www.resetera.com

Even more fuel to this fire

 

[VFXVeteran]

The truth will come out eventually. I think all those studios know what each other is doing tbh.

If people are in denial about H:ZD coming to PC, they will absolutely become frenzied lunatics over some of the other games hinted about.

 

[nowhat]

If people are in denial about H:ZD coming to PC, they will absolutely become frenzied lunatics over some of the other games hinted about.

If HZD were released on PC, I would be completely indifferent. Well, actually, I think it'd be great for those who haven't played the game, but it wouldn't move me personally one way or another.

Just that, when has a PlayStation first-party game been released on other platforms? And in before someone finds some PS1/2 game no one has ever heard of, let's say during the PS3/4 era. I can't think of any. It's not that it would be technically impossible, it's just quite unprecedented. Death Stranding appearing on other platforms doesn't really mean much, it's a third-party game, even with Decima and help from Guerrilla.

 

[VFXVeteran]

If HZD were released on PC, I would be completely indifferent. Well, actually, I think it'd be great for those who haven't played the game, but it wouldn't move me personally one way or another.

Just that, when has a PlayStation first-party game been released on other platforms? And in before someone finds some PS1/2 game no one has ever heard of, let's say during the PS3/4 era. I can't think of any. It's not that it would be technically impossible, it's just quite unprecedented. Death Stranding appearing on other platforms doesn't really mean much, it's a third-party game, even with Decima and help from Guerrilla.

Well, it's for certain bucking a trend. Death Stranding *should* have only been a PS4 title. None of the GG games came out on any other platforms before this game IIRC. It's definitely a sign of some change happening.

 

[nowhat]

Well, it's for certain bucking a trend. Death Stranding *should* have only been a PS4 title. None of the GG games came out on any other platforms before this game IIRC. It's definitely a sign of some change happening.

I dunno, I recall rumours about a PC port appearing pretty much instantly after the game was announced (when it became known Sony is footing the bill). I guess you'll get rumours online for pretty much anything though, so that's no validation one way or another.

But Death Stranding is not made by Guerrilla. They made the engine and some employees assisted with the project, sure. But when you boot the game, you see only "Kojima Productions" and then "Decima". There's no direct mention of GG. Again, I'm not categorically opposed to HZD being available to a wider audience; just that I don't think Death Stranding coming to PC necessarily means much in itself. It's like Quantic Dream games appearing on other platforms (or something like Journey) - yes, they've been PS-exclusive for long, but the studios are third-party. Doesn't mean there's been a change in how Sony operates.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I dunno, I recall rumours about a PC port appearing pretty much instantly after the game was announced (when it became known Sony is footing the bill). I guess you'll get rumours online for pretty much anything though, so that's no validation one way or another.

But Death Stranding is not made by Guerrilla. They made the engine and some employees assisted with the project, sure. But when you boot the game, you see only "Kojima Productions" and then "Decima". There's no direct mention of GG. Again, I'm not categorically opposed to HZD being available to a wider audience; just that I don't think Death Stranding coming to PC necessarily means much in itself. It's like Quantic Dream games appearing on other platforms (or something like Journey) - yes, they've been PS-exclusive for long, but the studios are third-party. Doesn't mean there's been a change in how Sony operates.

I guess we'll have to see what happens.

 

[nowhat]

I guess we'll have to see what happens.

No! We must continue the debate, without any new information, until one of us throws in the towel!

(agreed - a sentiment that should probably be endorsed in quite a few threads)

 

[sol_bad]

Everybody has current gen games to sell. When PS5 XSX comes out, there will still be current gen games to sell. Ghost looked good, but it's in-game cinematics. It's not representative of what the game will look like on screen. And the PS4Pro version isn't going to be much different than Sekiro. I must say though, I will wait for the PC version *IF* it comes out later. I love the Japan setting and Sekiro was just too hard for me tbh.

What first party AAA game are coming out for the XBX next year?

 

[nowhat]

VFXVeteran but actually... hmm. Just had an idea.

One of the reasons why I think a HZD port is unlikely, apart from historical precedence, is that SIE's modus operandi is to get people buying the hardware and into the ecosystem. If someone buys a game from $PC_STOREFRONT, they get a one-off compensation, sure (although the storefront gets a cut naturally too). But no new hardware is bought, none of that sweet PS+ monthly revenue and so on. So it's short-term profit, but it really doesn't help the PS ecosystem - with much of the exclusive lineup available elsewhere too, it could seriously jeopardize console sales.

Given this, I doubt we'll be seeing first-party exclusives on PC at least in large numbers. So why HZD could be possible? This would be a rather cunning strategy, which makes it quite unlikely (while Sony employs a ton of very talented people, the corporate decisions can be absolutely braindead at times). But it actually could make sense. This also assumes that HZD 2, or whatever the inevitable sequel is called, will be a PS5 launch title - "I want to believe", but no confirmation yet (of it being a launch title, it is getting done). So...

HZD isn't exactly new, and while it still is a looker (the HDR can really melt your eyeballs), it's not the most demanding game out there - well duh, it runs very well on the base model. So an average gaming rig should be able to handle it just fine. However, suppose PS5 is about at the speculated range of specs (10 TF, 12 TF, that really doesn't matter here). That will be a significant improvement over the average gaming rig (the keyword being average - this is an enthusiast forum, but not nearly every PC gamer has a completely pimped setup). So, the average gamer could update his setup, this can be quite costly (it may be cheaper in the long run - don't go there PCMR proponents, we've heard it all before - but as an initial investment). Or, he could pay less initially, get a console, play games at much higher fidelity than he's used to - oh and there's the sequel to the game he just played that looks absolutely mindblowing. And also there are those other exclusives people keep harping on about - at first, from PS4 era, but by the launch there's pretty much guaranteed to be a roadmap for at least some releases not available elsewhere.

The above is 100% speculation with no insider sources or other info. But that could make sense from Sony's POV. Kojima wants to sell his game, he gets paid (and fame) no matter what, so there are no platform considerations. But for Sony, there would need to be some incentive for PC releases. Using them as a bait to lure in a whole new batch of users - it's farfetched, I know, but that would make some sense for Sony.

 

[VFXVeteran]

nowhat - well, I very seriously doubt it would be that involved. We all know that H:ZD has already made it's money for Sony from the PS fans. Announcing it for the PC through Steam/Epic is going to net them some really good proceeds that would have otherwise been untapped.

HZD 2 could very well be in production for the PS5, but if HZD came out for the PC, it would at least rival (if not beat depending on the graphics options they open up) the PS5 version of HZD2. Why?

The Decima engine already has a Vulkan renderer in it. That's like the latest low-level graphics API from Khronos. It's got a lot of modern tech code in it compared to the old fixed-function OpenGL 1.0 graphics API and gives the programmer really good low level control of the GPU hardware. Vulkan is cross-platform so it's a perfect candidate for running on a PC and a Linux box (which is what the PS OS runs on). Any and all optimizations will affect both platforms. The only difference between the PS5 and a mid/high-tier PC is going to be the GPU. Nothing else matters. I'm pretty sure (I could be wrong) that there are higher resolution textures for HZD that simply could not be possible to run with the PS4. But that's not the case with the PC - so it would immediately look 2x better. Also, all the important rendering features that we see now on PCs (16x aniostropic filtering, advanced AO, more shadows, higher LOD, etc..) that are non-existent on consoles could be "turned on". If they implemented any ray-tracing code to be put into the next HZD, it would most certainly appear on the first HZD for the PC as a testbed.

So, could they be marketing it so that they roll the dice on getting PC owners to buy a PS5? Possible, but highly unlikely.

I will say this though -- after talking with the producer of Senua's trailer last night, he strictly told me that dev companies are tired of making multi platform games. They want a unified hardware solution where the majority of their R&D isn't wasted from generation to generation on different hardware.

In a nutshell, PS5 = XSX = PC. Common platform with varying hardware specs. Base x86 code will be the same. Bells and whistles will be options and most likely only playable on hardware owned by consumers with the most money.

 

[nowhat]

The Decima engine already has a Vulkan renderer in it. That's like the latest low-level graphics API from Khronos.

There's also the GNM renderer, giving even more low-level access. But really the graphical details are not what I'm getting at:

So, could they be marketing it so that they roll the dice on getting PC owners to buy a PS5? Possible, but highly unlikely.

I think you misunderstand the target market I mean here. The vast majority of "gamers" nowadays play mobile/facebook/whatnot shite (people are free to do what they wish, but those are objectively shite). Good luck getting them to buy a console (although they'll happily keep on buying microtransactions), so no point trying to get them as customers. The hardcore PC crowd too - even if it were possible to impress them technologically (and it isn't, given console price constraints), they'd be too proud to make the jump. But take a look at the Steam hardware survey:

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

Those may seem like decent numbers at a quick glance, at least some of them (I'll round these to avoid jumping between tabs), but inspecting them closer, for example for system memory: 38% has 16GB. But 35% has 8GB. 8% keeps it oldschool with 4GB. And for VRAM: the median value, at 24%, is a whopping 1024MB. 66% uses a display resolution of 1920x1080. And so on.

That would be the target market: people who enjoy gaming, but don't want to invest too much into it (but are willing to invest some). I say upcoming PS5 specs will be an improvement over the average Steam specs - because they pretty much suck. But not talking about the hardcore market here, that's a lost cause. And as stated, I don't see Sony releasing exclusives, even older ones, elsewhere without some kind of ulterior motive. Perhaps I'm just too cynical.

 

[VFXVeteran]

There's also the GNM renderer, giving even more low-level access. But really the graphical details are not what I'm getting at:


I think you misunderstand the target market I mean here. The vast majority of "gamers" nowadays play mobile/facebook/whatnot shite (people are free to do what they wish, but those are objectively shite). Good luck getting them to buy a console (although they'll happily keep on buying microtransactions), so no point trying to get them as customers. The hardcore PC crowd too - even if it were possible to impress them technologically (and it isn't, given console price constraints), they'd be too proud to make the jump. But take a look at the Steam hardware survey:

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

Those may seem like decent numbers at a quick glance, at least some of them (I'll round these to avoid jumping between tabs), but inspecting them closer, for example for system memory: 38% has 16GB. But 35% has 8GB. 8% keeps it oldschool with 4GB. And for VRAM: the median value, at 24%, is a whopping 1024MB. 66% uses a display resolution of 1920x1080. And so on.

That would be the target market: people who enjoy gaming, but don't want to invest too much into it (but are willing to invest some). I say upcoming PS5 specs will be an improvement over the average Steam specs - because they pretty much suck. But not talking about the hardcore market here, that's a lost cause. And as stated, I don't see Sony releasing exclusives, even older ones, elsewhere without some kind of ulterior motive. Perhaps I'm just too cynical.

Good points.

BUT -- what if those guys on Steam just like the Indie games?

 

[bigdawg69]

Death stranding, Detroit , Mlb the show. I can see sony publishing their games on pc. Pc isn't a threat to sony, Nintendo is.

 

[VFXVeteran]

There's also the GNM renderer, giving even more low-level access. But really the graphical details are not what I'm getting at:

I was curious so I had to look up what this is and low and behold I immediately laughed when I went to the wiki pages.

Let's just say that conversating with some guys that use PLSL confirms exactly what the wiki says:

"the PlayStation Shader Language is very similar to the HLSL standard in DirectX 11,"

No optimizations or special sauce was told to me.

 

[nowhat]

what if those guys on Steam just like the Indie games?

Hey, PS4 wasn't called "IndieStation" for pretty much the first year of its existence for nothing (seriously though, very many indies do make it to the platform nowadays, albeit there may be delays - I just played Obra Dinn and it was fan-fucking-tastic, but arrived a year later than the PC release)

But yeah, as stated, this is just all speculation. If a PC release is indeed announced at some point, it will be interesting to see if it's a one off or a new trend.

Death stranding, Detroit , Mlb the show.

MLB is the only first-party game - and I think MLB (the organisation) was insistent to get the game on other platforms, since it's pretty much the only decent baseball game (so I've been told, I honestly have no idea).

 

[nowhat]

I was curious so I had to look up what this is and low and behold I immediately laughed when I went to the wiki pages.

Let's just say that conversating with some guys that use PLSL confirms exactly what the wiki says:

"the PlayStation Shader Language is very similar to the HLSL standard in DirectX 11,"

No optimizations or special sauce was told to me.

The actual details are behind an NDA, so I don't pretend to know the nuts and bolts (not a game dev). Also, the link referencing DX11-like functionality is from 2013 - not a too outlandish idea that the API has been updated since? But it can be made to work very effectively, there's no question about it. Try, appropriately enough for example, playing HZD on a base model. Then consider the specs.

Here's a DF interview comparing developing for various targets: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...its-really-like-to-make-a-multi-platform-game

Quoting from above:

Digital Foundry: DirectX 11 vs GNMX vs GNM - what's your take on the strengths and weakness of the APIs available to developers with Xbox One and PlayStation 4? Closer to launch there were some complaints about XO driver performance and CPU overhead on GNMX.

Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Here's a DF interview comparing developing for various targets: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...its-really-like-to-make-a-multi-platform-game

Quoting from above:

I love this:

Oles Shishkovstov: There is no secret. We just adapted to the target hardware.

GCN doesn't love interpolators? OK, ditch the per-vertex tangent space, switch to per-pixel one. That CPU task becomes too fast on an out-of-order CPU? Merge those tasks. Too slow task? Parallelise it. Maybe the GPU doesn't like high sqrt count in the loop? But it is good in integer math - so we'll use old integer tricks. And so on, and so on.

That's just the art of optimisations and that's it. By the way, the PC version directly benefits from those optimisations as well, especially CPU-wise, as all of the platforms have out-of-order CPUs.

I've been saying this like a million times per day.

 

[daninthemix]

The timing is annoying for me, as I'm picking my way through a PS4 backlog right now. I do not want to play all the way through a long game like HZD only for a PC version to be announced.

 

[nowhat]

The timing is annoying for me, as I'm picking my way through a PS4 backlog right now. I do not want to play all the way through a long game like HZD only for a PC version to be announced.

Nothing has been confirmed yet. My bet is still on no PC port.

Besides, if you have a HDR-capable TV, you really want to play it with that. HDR on PC never really seems to gain ground.

Death Stranding releases on PC in... May, I think? There's no way a HZD port is released before that (if ever). It's about 50 hours if you really want to grind it out, you'll have plenty of time.

 

[daninthemix]

Nothing has been confirmed yet. My bet is still on no PC port.

Besides, if you have a HDR-capable TV, you really want to play it with that. HDR on PC never really seems to gain ground.

Death Stranding releases on PC in... May, I think? There's no way a HZD port is released before that (if ever). It's about 50 hours if you really want to grind it out, you'll have plenty of time.

I don't have HDR (do have 4K though, and a Pro).

 

[ORI]

My bet is also that there's no PC port

 

[nowhat]

I don't have HDR (do have 4K though, and a Pro).

Well, in that case, the game offers two display modes, one for quality and other for performance. My advice would be to use the former, it features a really good 4K-checkerboard implementation and targets 30fps - it's very very stable, but may drop a frame very infrequently. The performance mode is an absolutely rock-solid 30fps but drops the resolution to 1080p, it's not a worthy tradeoff IMHO.

 

[daninthemix]

Well, in that case, the game offers two display modes, one for quality and other for performance. My advice would be to use the former, it features a really good 4K-checkerboard implementation and targets 30fps - it's very very stable, but may drop a frame very infrequently. The performance mode is an absolutely rock-solid 30fps but drops the resolution to 1080p, it's not a worthy tradeoff IMHO.

Well, I do already own it (bought all my PS4 games digitally in sales over the years) but I'm still pushing it to last place in my backlog, just in case of an announcement...

 

[Xmengrey]

VFXVeteran but actually... hmm. Just had an idea.

One of the reasons why I think a HZD port is unlikely, apart from historical precedence, is that SIE's modus operandi is to get people buying the hardware and into the ecosystem. If someone buys a game from $PC_STOREFRONT, they get a one-off compensation, sure (although the storefront gets a cut naturally too). But no new hardware is bought, none of that sweet PS+ monthly revenue and so on. So it's short-term profit, but it really doesn't help the PS ecosystem - with much of the exclusive lineup available elsewhere too, it could seriously jeopardize console sales.

Given this, I doubt we'll be seeing first-party exclusives on PC at least in large numbers. So why HZD could be possible? This would be a rather cunning strategy, which makes it quite unlikely (while Sony employs a ton of very talented people, the corporate decisions can be absolutely braindead at times). But it actually could make sense. This also assumes that HZD 2, or whatever the inevitable sequel is called, will be a PS5 launch title - "I want to believe", but no confirmation yet (of it being a launch title, it is getting done). So...

HZD isn't exactly new, and while it still is a looker (the HDR can really melt your eyeballs), it's not the most demanding game out there - well duh, it runs very well on the base model. So an average gaming rig should be able to handle it just fine. However, suppose PS5 is about at the speculated range of specs (10 TF, 12 TF, that really doesn't matter here). That will be a significant improvement over the average gaming rig (the keyword being average - this is an enthusiast forum, but not nearly every PC gamer has a completely pimped setup). So, the average gamer could update his setup, this can be quite costly (it may be cheaper in the long run - don't go there PCMR proponents, we've heard it all before - but as an initial investment). Or, he could pay less initially, get a console, play games at much higher fidelity than he's used to - oh and there's the sequel to the game he just played that looks absolutely mindblowing. And also there are those other exclusives people keep harping on about - at first, from PS4 era, but by the launch there's pretty much guaranteed to be a roadmap for at least some releases not available elsewhere.

The above is 100% speculation with no insider sources or other info. But that could make sense from Sony's POV. Kojima wants to sell his game, he gets paid (and fame) no matter what, so there are no platform considerations. But for Sony, there would need to be some incentive for PC releases. Using them as a bait to lure in a whole new batch of users - it's farfetched, I know, but that would make some sense for Sony.

I think Ive already addressed this but ill say it again.
PC Users wont buy PS Plus and Sonys exclusives at least the popular ones this gen lack multiplayer even if they owned a console for exclusives.
Hardware isnt where the money is made its third party game sales and subs.
PC and console audiences are also different even though most of the library is shared people wont just jump ship if exclusives are coming to PC.
Even if there was a hit in console sales the money would be made back even moreso with software sales and if they make a GamePass for PC like MS theyll make more sub money.
Remember Hardware isn't where the money is made, and even though we share most of the library of games, have better hardware and free online consoles still sell to those that want physical media.

A bonus most people dont like waiting a year for a game to come out on their preferred platform causing them to pick up a console. If Sony does delayed PC release model, primarily PC gamers could get hardware, its also possible that for Sony and MS putting their games on PC even if they make less hardware so it eases up manufactoring costs not every hardware sale generates sub and games revenue for Sony and MS so they can cut the fat and expand their audience elsewhere who would never get a console.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Maybe just enough wet toss? Wait for at least some real information.

 

[Xmengrey]

Rand Al Thor is saying HZD and other Sony first party are coming to PC
VFXVeteran things bout to be spooky the salt is coming soon bro.

 

[Shmunter]

If rumours are true. Curious to Sony’s reasoning for bringing games to PC.

It’s possible they are betting on PS5 being a genuine contender to bring pc gamers across by giving them a taste of Sony lineup. Here’s Horizon 1, but if you want to play the much better looking sequel, you now need to buy a PS5.

This bet is possibly bolstered by next gen consoles offering High End experiences seen only on a sparse number of pc’s.

 

[Deto]

eheheheheh

 

[Damian black]

Rand al thor? What are his sources?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Rand al thor? What are his sources?

The True Source, of course.

 

[Xmengrey]

eheheheheh

I think I've already explained this one
This is Simon Larouche someone who works for Guerilla Games and is a game director on a new multiplayer IP, he hasn't worked on HZD either and likely isn't involved in the IP in any capacity just his multiplayer game so it's possible he wouldn't actually know. I mean he did like a comment asking if he knew or wasn't going to say so it's possible he doesn't actually know and isn't saying either way.

He also previously worked on Rainbow Six Siege, and Watch Dogs 2.

Someone who asked about Rand Al Thor he said that Banjo is coming to Smash, Xbox First party coming to PC, he talks to Jez Corden another industry insider.

 

[Kenpachii]

eheheheheh

Guess all the games at sony get developed and builded on consoles. Zero pc present.

 

[Red_Driver85]

Someone who asked about Rand Al Thor he said that Banjo is coming to Smash, Xbox First party coming to PC, he talks to Jez Corden another industry insider.

And thats all about Microsoft and Xbox... Meh.

 

[slade]

Lol, stuff like this happened at the beginning of this Gen too when MS made moves that somehow convinced a subset of people that Sony would follow suit.

Now, I'm not entirely convinced that this won't happen but the argument against it devaluing the PS brand is hard to ignore. And the PS brand is arguably the most valuable brand in gaming. An article from the beginning of the Gen summarised it well, 'MS may have had the games at E3 but all Sony needed to counter it was announcing the PS4.' I paraphrase but it went something like that.

Also, I don't buy the idea that releasing old games to PC will convince PC gamers to get the sequels on consoles. If they were that inclined towards consoles, they would have bought the PS4 and played the games already. Rather, I think PC gamers that would buy the games on PC would just wait for the sequels and now you've convinced those who would buy the console to wait for the sequels to come to PC as well. Convincing PC gamers to jump ship is a lost cause. Some of these fuckers won't even install a separate launcher for a game.

Sony, I think, would be better off if they wait and see how gamepass and the Xbox/PC thing MS is trying to do works out. If it affects the sale of Xbox's next Gen then it's a bad idea.

 

[mejin]

Horizon finally on PC

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