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[JAMMA]

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[Cyber_hunter026]

quite frankly this is my response to horizon going to pc.

 

[Krappadizzle]

This is like the biggest nonsense i've read since browsing GAF.

You have seriously no idea what you are talking about lol.

Just for context:

70% of Sonys Gaming Revenue comes from Network, Physical Games and Digital games. 2018 they made about 15 Billion US Dollar on PSN and Games ALONE, that alone is more than XBOX entire gaming division.

So no, while Sony is good at selling Consoles, they are even better at selling Games and Services.

I can't speak for that poster but in my case it's pretty accurate. I literally only use my PS4Pro to play exclusive games as most multiplatform games(which is what a majority of software sales are) are simply better on other platforms.

This whole chicken little thing is hilarious though. Sony has great momentum going into the PS5 and there's no reason to think they won't continue that curve moving forward. They have great exclusives and apparently a lot of frothing fans.

 

[Neofire]

I agree . Extremely disappointed in Sony in the recent months and their lack of communication and vision .
They seem to be following MS when they don’t need to instead of focusing on their strengths and work on their weaknesses o the side .

hopefully they can change it around after PS meeting

Unfortunately I doubt they will with Jim Ryan at the helm. Instead of innovating to to drive its brand and user base they are like thd hell with that just put everything on PC and hope they keep our developers fed.

I'm interested in what they do once their large market share dwindles down to that of what the first Xbox had WW.

I will reserve what else I want to say once they reveal the ps5 and their strategy in February.

 

[Outrunner]

I wish I could be incompetent and yet be market leader in my field.

 

[Jadsey]

Wow...second best selling home console of all time.

Imagine how many consoles they will sell when they are competent.

What a fucking shit post.

 

[DrAspirino]

Wow...second best selling home console of all time.

Imagine how many consoles they will sell when they are competent.

It happened and it was called PlayStation 2: best selling home console of all time.

 

[Evil Calvin]

"In the last 2 years, I have seen PlayStation allow great games to be reviewed before final patches, duck out of E3, let all of Quantic Dreams games go to PC along with funding Death Stranding and let that also go to PC.... now Horizon Zero Dawn is the latest to go to PC."

What's wrong with good games going to PC in order to reach more players? You sound like a major butt-hurt Sony fanboy.

Most gamers have multiple systems so it makes you sound like a twat.

 

[Woodchipper]

As long as they have the best games, I’m in, simple as that.

 

[The_Mike]

They continue to be the platform that plays the games I want with low input lag compared to the competition.

can you explain? I'm really curious about the explanation on this one.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

can you explain? I'm really curious about the explanation on this one.

Someone asked me a similar question a few pages back and here is my response. Let me know if you still have unanswered curiosities:

Very strange choice of words considering 360 was the better platform for fighting games and shmups with lower input latency in almost every case.

Unless there's already information that PS5 has superior input latency to XSX?

Edit: Oh wait, I think you're using "continue" in the context of the PS4's lifespan. I was thinking in terms of console generations.

That's why I own a 360. Yeah, I just mean the PS4 has gotten a lot of games that I want and the low input lag of the hardware reinforces my choice to buy a lot of games in the library. I have no strong opinion on the PS5 nor XsX nor do I plan to buy either of them at launch.

Which also reminds me, I didn't reply to their follow up. Sorry about that Hawks Eclipse

Yea my realization came a bit late, hence the edit.

And it made me wonder if you might have some info about input latency for the nextgen consoles because I can't be bothered to keep up with the details on either one. So far you're one of the only persons on here who takes note of input latency.

Yea there's no point getting either box at launch unless it had the games we wanna play there and then. The box itself is a means to the game. Though backwards compatibility with enhancements (like One X) would be a huge attraction, I'm the kind who loves revisiting my games library.

I don't have any special knowledge, it's just something I follow somewhat closely because (A) I like playing on arcade sticks and some sticks have lower or higher lag compared to a native controller, (B) I like playing shmups where a difference in lag -- even just two or three frames -- feels significantly different, and (C) I think it's an oft-ignored facet of gaming and it is more important to me than resolution.

No clue how next-gen platforms will perform. It also depends a lot on whether TVs improve their input lag (this is a completely different metric than pixel response time which is what TVs and pc monitors tend to advertise). I expect most people will continue to suffer from the lag issue without complaining unless it gets worse.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Cant down Sony or even Microsoft, we just need to wait and see all their plans first and what's coming, it's too early.

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

Someone asked me a similar question a few pages back and here is my response. Let me know if you still have unanswered curiosities:



Which also reminds me, I didn't reply to their follow up. Sorry about that Hawks Eclipse


I don't have any special knowledge, it's just something I follow somewhat closely because (A) I like playing on arcade sticks and some sticks have lower or higher lag compared to a native controller, (B) I like playing shmups where a difference in lag -- even just two or three frames -- feels significantly different, and (C) I think it's an oft-ignored facet of gaming and it is more important to me than resolution.

No clue how next-gen platforms will perform. It also depends a lot on whether TVs improve their input lag (this is a completely different metric than pixel response time which is what TVs and pc monitors tend to advertise). I expect most people will continue to suffer from the lag issue without complaining unless it gets worse.

Hey no worries, it's all good.

You know, it sounds ridiculous that some wired controls would have more latency than wireless but that's basically the case with the Switch and it's wired mode, wonder if it'll ever be rectified.

Hmm, ultimately that latency boils down to the PCB if I'm not mistaken, so you could always use your favourite stick housing and mod it accordingly.

I will disclose that I'm not that sensitive to input latency (2-3f) but I understand and can relate to your gripes about it being a relatively overlooked aspect in gaming; I would favour vsync off when playing PC games in the past because it felt more responsive.

Generally I'm quite tolerant of input latency; I could tolerate Bloodstained (prepatch) on Switch, it was the framerate that got to me.

From what I recall TV input latency has seen quite a lot of improvements in the past decade or so but I only use a PC monitor for my gaming so that's one headache I've never had to deal with.

 

[Krappadizzle]

It happened and it was called PlayStation 2: best selling home console of all time.

The PS2 being a DVD player was a big part of that. The PS2 being the cheapest DVD player on the market and then the absolute stellar year of amazing game releases of year 2001 was a huge slingshot for it.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Hey no worries, it's all good.

You know, it sounds ridiculous that some wired controls would have more latency than wireless but that's basically the case with the Switch and it's wired mode, wonder if it'll ever be rectified.

Hmm, ultimately that latency boils down to the PCB if I'm not mistaken, so you could always use your favourite stick housing and mod it accordingly.

I will disclose that I'm not that sensitive to input latency (2-3f) but I understand and can relate to your gripes about it being a relatively overlooked aspect in gaming; I would favour vsync off when playing PC games in the past because it felt more responsive.

Generally I'm quite tolerant of input latency; I could tolerate Bloodstained (prepatch) on Switch, it was the framerate that got to me.

From what I recall TV input latency has seen quite a lot of improvements in the past decade or so but I only use a PC monitor for my gaming so that's one headache I've never had to deal with.

For sure, I view lag as one factor among many. A few frames of lag are normal, but going from excessive lag (6+ frames) down to the normal average (2-3f) is very noticeable when compared side-by-side, even for the layman who doesn't pay close attention. So I try to avoid games/systems with high lag or at least try to set my expectations accordingly.

The shift away from CRTs is the single largest source of input lag, from what I've found.

 

[BacklashWave534]

How can you possibly know anything about what Sony is doing when no one else does? Maybe you should ease off the daily trips to the fortune teller and wait to see what Sony is going to deliver.

 

[Alebrije]

Sony will be down,....then up ...then down....and up....as Nintendo and MS has been. But currently do not see what Sony is doing wrong since we do not know anything solid about PS5 and exclusive games.

So lets wait this year and do not speculate.

 

[bucyou]

 

[meirl]

It has everything to do with it and the lead-up to next-gen.

Like I said, the same thing happened back in 2013.

lol no. Absolutely nothing. Dude. Just stop. Sony fucked up big time and you know it.
stop spinning and stop denying.

 

[Nikana]

Well to be accurate, the ps5 isn't sitting at 100 million sold lol, it's at 0, potential buyers are being put off by this news I can assure you. Many had interest in buying the ps5 on this very forum and have said they aren't if this is true.

For me HZD isn't a big deal being on the pc after 3 years but the implications of what Sony is going to start doing has me worried for the Playstation brand, which I've invested in heavily.

This forum represents the 1 percent aka the hardcore. the 106 million ps4s weren't sold to only hardcore gamers. Even with the ps3s super rocky cycle they still managed to hit over 70 million. This news isn't going to affect over 90 percent of their audience because that audience just want a box to play games and Sony exclusives and the PS5 is still going to let them do that.

 

[Psykodad]

lol no. Absolutely nothing. Dude. Just stop. Sony fucked up big time and you know it.
stop spinning and stop denying.

Remember that you told me this.
It won't take long before you have to take your words back.

 

[VFXVeteran]

thelastword - Your assumption of 2-3yrs before a PC version comes out is false. I know of a dev that's working on a PS game with a PC version and the PS game isn't even out yet. Don't just assume 2-3yrs because HZD came out 3yrs ago. That's not going to be the pattern.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This forum represents the 1 percent aka the hardcore. the 106 million ps4s weren't sold to only hardcore gamers. Even with the ps3s super rocky cycle they still managed to hit over 70 million. This news isn't going to affect over 90 percent of their audience because that audience just want a box to play games and Sony exclusives and the PS5 is still going to let them do that.

Yup.

Its all about the cash. And if Sony feels its better to spread games across more platforms to make more sales they’ll do.

no different than Apple. For decades they were the black sheep. But had a small core of loyal users going all the way back to the 80s.

apple realizes they can sell more by making mainstream products with U2 being the representative for iPods and everything snowballed from there including mainstream pc specs, allowing windows to run and now everyone uses apple gear.

if one of those hippy loyal users from 1984 criticized why they ignored the rebel crowd for mainstream consumers, Apple would laugh and tell him to fuck off. Profits more important buddyboy. Now go back and play your Apple IIc.

pretty sure Apple will sacrifice a user from 1984 for 500 more buyers that are common users.

 

[Dane]

This forum represents the 1 percent aka the hardcore. the 106 million ps4s weren't sold to only hardcore gamers. Even with the ps3s super rocky cycle they still managed to hit over 70 million. This news isn't going to affect over 90 percent of their audience because that audience just want a box to play games and Sony exclusives and the PS5 is still going to let them do that.

The hard truth is that Exclusives do help to sell consoles but they aren't the main factor.

If Atari had a new console with zero exclusives yet most/all of the multiplatforms vs Nintendo WiiU, the former would have sold way more.

 

[Nikana]

The hard truth is that Exclusives do help to sell consoles but they aren't the main factor.

If Atari had a new console with zero exclusives yet most/all of the multiplatforms vs Nintendo WiiU, the former would have sold way more.

I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing lol. But yeah of course exclusives help sell consoles but at the end of the days the software being on playstation and PC aren't going to suddenly kill the playstation. The PC is still quite different than a console and to the mass market its not considered a gaming device for a ton of people. Those people will still buy a console.

 

[hybrid_birth]

What does the latest leaked design look like? I thought the V-shaped dev kit was the only thing that was revealed.

Edit: looked into it and these are the images in circulation:

If this is real, then I think Xbox Series X has won in the looks department.

I would say that I don’t like the design. But I already fapped to it 5 times so....

I don’t think there is anything to worry about. Sony knows what they are doing with PS5.

 

[Jigsaah]

Complaining about HZD is stupid, it's like you don't want more people to play great games.
Who the fuck cares where you are play games, just that you are playing them.

Play the games, not the consoles

I agree that nearly 40 million subscribers is an insanely good number, but if you take into account the ammount of PS4s in the market, the reach is only 40% of the market. It means that for every 10 PS4s the've sold, only 4 actively use their online service. The game sales are indeed great, but when you compare them to the 106M installed base, they pale. They haven't given any reason at all for those 60% that doesn't use PS+ to buy a subscription.

If you had, for example, only 60M PS4s sold, but keep the same ammount of software and services sales, the percentages would be quite different and we would be talking about an absolute success in brand and services loyalty.

I would only consider this a measure that matters if the competition had more or less of a percentage.

Since we don't know this gen's xbox sales figures, or active users, then there's nothing to really compare it to. For example, if Xbox had 50 million consoles in the wild and 25 million subscribers to Xbox Live...then that would maybe show they have more of an online prescence from a percentage perspective. But say Xbox had 10 million xbox live subscribers. All of a sudden it make Sony's subscriber base look pretty damn good.

Point is it's all relative.

 

[Alexios]

Lol. If it's true I can already see it. A year or two from now Sony will be a pioneer and Nintendo an anti-consumer stuck-in-the-past company forcing gamers to buy its shit hardware rather than release their games everywhere else like based Sony, all from the same people freaking out now

 

[ElCasual]

Let's face it, this is the last generation of consoles, they are too expensives to produce and all the games will be PC only.
Nintendo will remain in the handled market and they will be the winners.

 

[SlimySnake]

thelastword - Your assumption of 2-3yrs before a PC version comes out is false. I know of a dev that's working on a PS game with a PC version and the PS game isn't even out yet. Don't just assume 2-3yrs because HZD came out 3yrs ago. That's not going to be the pattern.

is this a first party dev or a third party dev?

there are plenty of third party ps games that launch on pc at the same time. nioh, shenmue, and several other japanese titles.

so is your dev source a guy from a first party studio working on a ps5 exclusive?

 

[VFXVeteran]

is this a first party dev or a third party dev?

there are plenty of third party ps games that launch on pc at the same time. nioh, shenmue, and several other japanese titles.

so is your dev source a guy from a first party studio working on a ps5 exclusive?

1st. That's all I'll say.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Why would anyone buy a PS5 if:

a) all their exclusive games come to PC
and
b) the Xbox is more than 30% more powerful at the same price?

Well people bought Xbox one consoles didn't they?

 

[Sygma]

In the last 2 years, I have seen PlayStation allow great games to be reviewed before final patches, duck out of E3, let all of Quantic Dreams games go to PC along with funding Death Stranding and let that also go to PC.... now Horizon Zero Dawn is the latest to go to PC.

The direct type 'State of Plays' are boring and have zero personality and right now, it looks like they fired anyone that was liked by the community.

There are many credible rumors of PS5 coming in under the performance of Series X, the latest leaked design is hideous and looks incredibly cheap.

I have absolutly no confidence in the current direction that PlayStation is heading, if they continue to make their games multiplatform... I think many will just stop buying their hardware. I am certainly seriously considering this...

I wonder how many of the PlayStation owners on Gaf feel about the current direction?

I don't give a shit and I personaly love that Sony are becoming more down to earth. I'm also saying this on the premise of wanting to play Ninja Gaiden black on pc one day. If anything I'm much more mad about the state of games on pc than Sony smartly taking advantage of the market

Also as an owner of a non RTX enabled computer im much more likely to abandon the platform and buy a ps5 precisely because :

1) the cost of the system will be twice as less as a 2080ti
2) online communities in terms of raw numbers when you dont take in account Dota, Cs Source and mmos are always much stronger on console

 

[Golgo 13]

It’s been a fucking incredible generation for Sony. They killed it with their first party games, they pretty much single handedly made the generation as far I’m concerned. As long as whatever weird-ass strategy they’re using now doesn’t lead them down a path to CHANGE THE QUALITY OF THEIR FIRST PARTY SOFTWARE, then I’m fine with it.

Sony does need to realize that people buy their systems for the exclusives though, and they’ve garnered incredible amounts of mindshare in that regard. I will personally stop buying their systems if Naughty Dog, and Sony Santa Monica Studio games start coming to PC. Because at that point the PS5 becomes the worst place to play Sony games, by default.
Microsoft has already talked me out of buying a series X with this strategy.

Time will tell how this will all play out, but it’ll be interesting for sure.

 

[Kacho]

thelastword - Your assumption of 2-3yrs before a PC version comes out is false. I know of a dev that's working on a PS game with a PC version and the PS game isn't even out yet. Don't just assume 2-3yrs because HZD came out 3yrs ago. That's not going to be the pattern.

Well isn't that interesting...

 

[Dane]

I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing lol. But yeah of course exclusives help sell consoles but at the end of the days the software being on playstation and PC aren't going to suddenly kill the playstation. The PC is still quite different than a console and to the mass market its not considered a gaming device for a ton of people. Those people will still buy a console.

I'm agreeing with you LEL

 

[chinoXL]

Sony will be down,....then up ...then down....and up....as Nintendo and MS has been. But currently do not see what Sony is doing wrong since we do not know anything solid about PS5 and exclusive games.

So lets wait this year and do not speculate.

this man gets it!!! all they've released is the logo and some general hardware. lets wait until Sony officially gives us all the info then decide if they're incompetent. also who cares if games are released years later on PC. if you're into consoles and not PC you lose nothing by this. Ppl are going overboard on Sony lately...

 

[Clear]

As per usual the conversation is getting bogged down into absolutes, when the most likely outcome is that games are going to treated on a case-by-case basis.

Right now, having third-party games be "console" exclusives is hardly uncommon. Extending the same arrangement to select first-party titles isn't that big of a change, and might be a smart choice depending on the specific title. Similarly porting older titles like HZD is basically an easy way to get a second bite of the sales-cherry.

Putting these two motivations/circumstances together and concluding that Sony is giving up on offering exclusives now and forever is quite the leap. After all, they evidently value exclusivity enough to pay for FF7 remake for a year, and if they were moving in the direction of offering PC versions of their big catalogue titles, wouldn't they be pushing a port of TLOU ahead of HZD?

 

[LordClansman]

A couple of months ago we realized that Sony fanboys didn't care about power at all.
Now we find out that they didn't care about exclusives either. But as long as they can play them first for a year or something, which surely will change again when Sony decides to launch their games day 1 on PC.
It feels like for some of you there's nothing Sony could do to make you like PlayStation any less.
A console with no exclusives has 0 appeal to me.

 

[meirl]

Lets get real here, if you actually want Playstation to succeed and be the same PS that you knew and loved... you guys need to get them to move their headquarters Back to Japan and ditch the new SJW California headquarters. Playstation Headquarters in Tokyo ran the brand way better.

Playstation in California is a mere shell of the greatness that once awaited.
If you want a Japanese console buy Nintendo. If you want an American console buy Xbox. If you want a Frankenstein buy the identity crisis known as “Playstation”.

sad, but true.

 

[meirl]

thelastword - Your assumption of 2-3yrs before a PC version comes out is false. I know of a dev that's working on a PS game with a PC version and the PS game isn't even out yet. Don't just assume 2-3yrs because HZD came out 3yrs ago. That's not going to be the pattern.

yeah. Dreams is already „confirmed“ still unbelievable. Horizon is kinda understandable.
But freaking DREAMS?! This is crazy.

Source: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/drea...an-exclusive-hitting-the-pc-platform.1520868/

 

[Bryank75]

thelastword - Your assumption of 2-3yrs before a PC version comes out is false. I know of a dev that's working on a PS game with a PC version and the PS game isn't even out yet. Don't just assume 2-3yrs because HZD came out 3yrs ago. That's not going to be the pattern.

Is it another first party outside Mm?

 

[thelastword]

Don't underestimate what those select few will be.

thelastword - Your assumption of 2-3yrs before a PC version comes out is false. I know of a dev that's working on a PS game with a PC version and the PS game isn't even out yet. Don't just assume 2-3yrs because HZD came out 3yrs ago. That's not going to be the pattern.

At this point, nothing has been confirmed yet though, it's still a rumor...….When we get official details from Sony on when these games will come and how it will come to PC, then we can say for certain, but till then it's still a rumor no matter how many sources point to it being a reality......Sony is the only source that can confirm...….It's similar to 12TF vs 9TF or 1080ti vs 1080, spec differences for the console......So I have no problems with your insider information or leaks, but just know that confirmation and all the details surrounding it, how long before exclusive, day 1 on PC can only come from the mouth of Sony Jon Snow.....

yeah. Dreams is already „confirmed“ still unbelievable. Horizon is kinda understandable.
But freaking DREAMS?! This is crazy.

Source: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/drea...an-exclusive-hitting-the-pc-platform.1520868/

That is not a confirmation of Dreams, though I think dreams would do well to come out on PC......The engine an technology used in Dreams needs to reach the entire Industry IMO.....I think it's the next evolution in games rendering...….

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

For sure, I view lag as one factor among many. A few frames of lag are normal, but going from excessive lag (6+ frames) down to the normal average (2-3f) is very noticeable when compared side-by-side, even for the layman who doesn't pay close attention. So I try to avoid games/systems with high lag or at least try to set my expectations accordingly.

The shift away from CRTs is the single largest source of input lag, from what I've found.

All true. The difference in responsiveness between Splatoon 1 and 2 is quite noticeable when I compare them side by side. IIRC it's more than 2-3f difference between the two though, I think S1 had around 3f of latency while S2 was around 6-8f.

Speaking of CRTs, I remember going through this Reddit thread a while ago.

 

[thelastword]

Can everybody remember all the doom and gloom Sony threads at the end of last gen, can everybody remember all the doom and gloom for Sony because they didn't want crossplay with MS or the "I cant play Fortnite with my XBOX or Nintendo friends, that's unconstitutional", can everybody remember the doom and gloom because Sony refused to go to E3 last year or that some obscure games were censored on PS4....?

That's just hot air, Sony knows what it's doing, they are at 106 million PS4's whilst the competition buries itself in MAU's and with publications like; "we're doing great, honest" type spiels....At what point will we learn this is just the hot air before Sony cools the planet into another 7 years of dominance and great games.....How many times will they do it, how many times must they do it, before we stop saying "MS gave the gen to Sony", "Arrogant Sony is back", "Sony is making lots of mistakes and going in the wrong direction...…When PS5 sells 200 million copies, in 2027, this same cycle will repeat itself...….It's like people always obscure the reality and tangibles in these discussions.....Every time a new gen arises, it quickly descends into "wild and unsubstantiated dreams" season....

Gonna go ahead and skip 6 pages of dribble and assume this has already been posted

Edited for non-handhelds:

If incompetency leads to the fourth four of the five best selling consoles of all time, maybe we should all take a leaf out of Sony's book and start annoying the people on the internet that make up 3% of their user base

The only systems that come close to Sony's best are Nintendo handhelds, even the Wii a supremely casual console, that you could find in nursing homes, hospitals, every grandma and soccer mom had one, still could not outsell the PS1.....If only PS3 did not launch at $600, it would have been way over 100m too...

 

[Allonym]

The tune will change when they have their conference/meeting and PS5 is revealed. People always react hysterically when the news cycle is slow, and the rumor mill is in full spin. There likely is something to the Horizon rumor, but people are exaggerating what it means. I doubt that we'll see PS5 exclusive releases day and date on PC. That would de-incentivize people of a PS5 purchase, so they'll likely release much later when the audience on PS5 no longer plays the title or it has exhausted its legs. I don't believe that Sony is releasing a substantially weaker system either. I'm assuming that they'll be separated by at most 1.5 tflops, which puts Sony in a great position to undercut Series X by $100 and outperform Series S by 6-8 tflops and be priced a modest $100-$150 more than Series S/Lockhart. Just my thoughts but we'll see.

 

[Defect]

I wouldn't buy a ps5, if i knew all exclusives were just a year late on PC.

It’s cool that you would have that choice huh?

 

[urmie]

Everything that has happened since Jim Ryan took over. Play the video.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everything that has happened since Jim Ryan took over. Play the video.

Garbage.

 

[CJY]

Can everybody remember all the doom and gloom Sony threads at the end of last gen, can everybody remember all the doom and gloom for Sony because they didn't want crossplay with MS or the "I cant play Fortnite with my XBOX or Nintendo friends, that's unconstitutional", can everybody remember the doom and gloom because Sony refused to go to E3 last year or that some obscure games were censored on PS4....?

That's just hot air, Sony knows what it's doing, they are at 106 million PS4's whilst the competition buries itself in MAU's and with publications like; "we're doing great, honest" type spiels....At what point will we learn this is just the hot air before Sony cools the planet into another 7 years of dominance and great games.....How many times will they do it, how many times must they do it, before we stop saying "MS gave the gen to Sony", "Arrogant Sony is back", "Sony is making lots of mistakes and going in the wrong direction...…When PS5 sells 200 million copies, in 2027, this same cycle will repeat itself...….It's like people always obscure the reality and tangibles in these discussions.....Every time a new gen arises, it quickly descends into "wild and unsubstantiated dreams" season....


The only systems that come close to Sony's best are Nintendo handhelds, even the Wii a supremely casual console, that you could find in nursing homes, hospitals, every grandma and soccer mom had one, still could not outsell the PS1.....If only PS3 did not launch at $600, it would have been way over 100m too...

username holds up.