M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
How it would made sense to add 4GB of DDR4? For system only or what? But that would create some weird ass memory separation never seen before...at least not on x86 platform...
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If you care about PS5 vs Xbox Series X performance, you should just build a PC
ZywyPL
Banned
WTF xD That's almost exactly how it works on x86 PCs for the last, I don't know, three decades? The PS4 Pro works literally EXACTLY like that. I know there there are many not tech-savvy people in here, but holy fuck...
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
No, that system would be on one memory system and games would be somehow on another? Doubt. Games are spread how they see fit between Ram and VRAM and not like this...
Azurro
Banned
I get ya. I built a decent Gaming PC a few years ago, like a year or two before the PS4 came out. It was a really nice jump from the PS3 and really enjoyed playing the Witcher 2 on it.
The thing is though, they are very different experiences, you can't replicate the plug and play nature of consoles, even with the quirks they have adopted from the PC market. You still can't just pick up your controller, press a button and be in the Steam Console style UI right away from sleep mode on your PC.
You still need a mouse and keyboard and a desk to make decent use of those, and you still need to fiddle with settings to get the best level of performance for your rig, and you still need to trouble shoot, upgrade firmwares and whatnot, not to mention all the useless gimmicks, the XXXTREME design language of the cases, packaging, RAM and oh god, RGB lightning. Like, why?
And honestly, you know what? I spend 8 hours a day on my desk at work solving issues, I don't want to do that when I'm supposed to be resting.
And to be honest, for all the massive performance you can achieve on PC, barely any PC software actually makes real use of it. Very few PC exclusives just go "fuck it, let's see what we can do with a minimum of an i9 and a 2080Ti", so you end up with either the same games with higher settings or PC exclusives that look and feel cheap af.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
There are two ways in which it could differ.
1.)Gaming performance per Tflop could be higher in one architecture than another.
2.)Another possibility is that despite having different maximum theoretical flops, sustained flops are significantly higher in rdna than in gcn
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ZywyPL
Banned
Um, no? Games are not autonomous entities, they they don't do as "they see fit", they do what programmers program them to do. For example, the base XB1 ESRAM content on the 1X is alocated in the GDDR5 memory pool, because that's exactly how X1 OS is programmed to do. So if a console will have one pool of memory just for the OS and apps, and another separate pool of memory just for the games, that's exactly how it will work, because the programmers will design it to work like that.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
And for that you wound use two separate memory controllers? Because system would benefited for lower latency. If it would be like PC, let's say 16GB DDR4/8GGDR6 fine, but other way around does not seems to bring any benefits for gaming. ESRAM is basically like a cache, where you can store one frame, if I am not mistaken. But that's not a RAM pool, for gaming machines makes unified pool far more sense. And besides the complexity of the board for just 4GBs, seems pretty useless.
And "how they see fit" meant "what programmers program them to do", just poor wording on my part. Sorry about that.
ZywyPL
Banned
But DDR HAS lower latency compared to GDDR, so exactly like you just said, the OS would greatly benefit from such memory split, that's EXACTLY the reason PC is designed like that. So if PS5 or XBX would have an extra 4GB DDR just for the OS, it would indeed be a much better design solution instead of running the OS from GDDR (and taking away those 4GB from the pool that otherwise would have been used for the games).
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yeah sure, but when it comes to PC, how long you spend in OS (well whole the time, but rather what you do in OS) compared to consoles, for a little benefit, you get way more complicated board, if they would use memory controller in Zen2 cores, but Jaguar have them too and with 1X, they decided againts that. Consoles sound expensive as it is, I somewhat highly doubt this scenario honestly.
pawel86ck
Banned
Yes, I know gaming performance is different per FLOP on each architecture and Navi RDNA1 has 25-30% better gaming performance than GCN Vega. However im sure Phil Spencer only talked about TFLOPS metric because he explained XSX power using two different examples (over 8x times xbox one, and 2x times xbox x) and the thing is only 12TF coresponds with both.
You want to take into account architecture gains? Ok.
Navi RDNA1 is nearly 50% faster than xbox one, so 8TF Navi would already offer 8x xbox one gaming performance. However in order to match 2x xbox x gaming performance MS would need 10TF Navi (xbox x architecture was already much improved compared with xbox one GCN TAHITI, therefore performance scaling is different).
8TF and 10TF Navi suggest 2 different performance levels. Only 12TF can explain what Phil Spencer has said because 12TF is exactly over 8x times 1.4TF (xbox one s) and exactly 2x times faster than 6TF (xbox x).
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ZywyPL
Banned
Yup, I honestly don't see both Sony and MS going for anything more than 16GB GDDR 6 (and the slowest possible version available) of shared memory pool, the rumored split of 3GB for the OS and 13GB for games totally makes sense, especially given how the devs praise the SSDs and how they'll be able to load the entire worlds directly from them.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
That's awesome... Can you get a good video card in it as well? I love it.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yeah, so that's something I wanted to say, I just might be "grammatically challenged" so I apologize : )
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Any GPU up to 310mm in length.
I have a 3900x / 32gb @ 3600mhz with a 2080ti in a full custom watercooling loop and i also care about the specs of next gen consoles because i enjoy good optimized big budget console exclusives. Horizon and gow are extremly pretty.
So why should i build a new pc instead of caring about specs?
So why should i build a new pc instead of caring about specs?
Tqaulity
Member
THIS x100. I hate when people say something like what the title of this thread says. Buying a top spec PC Today to play the games available Today is NOT a next gen experience by any means. It’s just hardware....but it’s the software that actually makes the next gen experience a reality. Buying a RTX 2080ti and core i9/3900x system with all the RAM in the world just means you can accelerate the same old games made to run on a 1.3 TFOP Xbox One from 2013 at like 500 frames per second. But same quality assets, same LOD issues, low polygon models, limited world design, AI, physics etc. What next gen means is playing gaming experiences not possible on previous generation hardware. That’s going from Super Mario World to Mario 64 or Final Fantasy VI to VII or Gran Turismo 2 to 3 etc. Current economics dictate that the PC does not get the fresh exclusive software designed to maximize that hardware. In other words, the next generation starts when the console manufacturers say so. Only then will we see software designed to take advantage of the higher spec and offering new experiences. No amount of PC hardware will make up for true new software experiences.
DoctaThompson
Banned
I honestly don't get this whole firmware, drivers excuse some of y'all use? It's literally turn the computer on, which boots up faster than a console (cold boot), or wakes up in a fraction of a second.
Anyone who actually has gamed on a pc, knows that you hold down the Xbox button or ps home button, to open up steam big picture mode. From there you can access any game. There is no need to get a keyboard and mouse.
It's usually the less intellectual people that run into the issues you claim to have. Cause pc owners from the last few years can agree, that everything is streamlined. It's only the ones who claim to have built a pc, and what not, that have these issues. Drivers install automatically, same with game updates. There really is no ticketing with settings in games, unless you WANT to.
I honestly don't see an issue with people wanting to buy a console. If they want to go PC and are willing to learn then I will help them. Just don't like the fanboyism from those that never built a PC keep saying a console is a GOD machine because of " to the metal programming" or some BS like that, when it is not as powerful. And I don't agree with putting down a person who owns a console either just because they don't want to build a PC. I use to be console player before going to PC. I may even buy a switch even though I own a PC I built just because Mario will always have a place in my heart. Was the first game I played on the original NES.
Number three is an interesting setup from Sony. I wonder why they would go with a segmented design the same as a PC uses? Maybe plan for it to be used as a PC as well as a console? hmmm.
Number four proves my point if you are not lying. Kept having fanboys on other forums say that the PS5 would be faster than a Ryzen 3000 series system that utilizes the latest SSD's that support PCI-E 4.0. This proves otherwise. I hope Intel gets on the ball and goes PCI-E 4.0 very soon or more people will switch to AMD (not a bad thing, but then they may raise prices if they become dominate for many more years) if this is the trend that games are going too. Star Citizen is just the beginning.
Hey folks
1. PS5 is 12.2 RDNA 1.5 and XSX is 12.05 RDNA 1.5
2. PS5 3.6Ghz Zen 2 and XSX is 3.5Ghz
3. PS5 has 18GB+4gigs of ddr4 GDDR6 and XSX has 16 GB.
4. PS5 SSD 5.8GB/s upto 6GB/s on D1 and XSX for now is 3.5GB/s
5. Secret saucefor PS5
XSX is alot quieter.
Number three is an interesting setup from Sony. I wonder why they would go with a segmented design the same as a PC uses? Maybe plan for it to be used as a PC as well as a console? hmmm.
Number four proves my point if you are not lying. Kept having fanboys on other forums say that the PS5 would be faster than a Ryzen 3000 series system that utilizes the latest SSD's that support PCI-E 4.0. This proves otherwise. I hope Intel gets on the ball and goes PCI-E 4.0 very soon or more people will switch to AMD (not a bad thing, but then they may raise prices if they become dominate for many more years) if this is the trend that games are going too. Star Citizen is just the beginning.
Barnabot
Member
sorry brap
things *issues* are closing in
in that case both a console and a PC port getting fucked together.
brap
Banned
Yeah, but it'll get fixed. There have been too many times on PC where I had something wrong and it was due to some random old program or whatever. That's all on me and my PC I built myself. They can easily push out updates for consoles because each one is the same. They can't just put out a fix for Brap's pc he built. That's when you gotta look at the steam forums and shit.
Azurro
Banned
Wait, you literally just said only idiots run into issues. Are you sure you are not the yellow guy from the video and are presently grabbing your ass cheeks? Because you don't have to be an idiot to run into driver issues, come on.
Let's be honest, PC gaming is simply much less convenient and easy to use than console gaming, even with all the improvements that have happened. You want a super wide screen ratio? Let's check which games are compatible. Want to figure out what monitor is HDR or not? Well, that's going to be fun. Issues cropping up when upgrading drivers, etc. BTW, how can you be really sure that's the optimal settings for your rig for that game? Better spend time to figure out online what's the best settings combo...or you have to live knowing that you are playing with unoptimised settings.
In terms of accessing the experience, does pressing the PS button override windows login when waking up from sleep? I very much doubt it. Can you use it if you are logged out? I also very much doubt you don't ever experience any bluetooth syncing issues, and besides, have you ever tried using a keyboard and a mouse from a couch? It's dreadful and I don't want to sit down on a desk, AGAIN, after spending 8 hours at work doing the same.
I mean, I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it happens often enough that it will tarnish the experience. And come on, "excuses"? This is a hobby, it's no one's duty to become a PC gamer, if they don't like the experience, then they don't like the experience. If you need to do a lot of research, install things or do relatively complex customisations to achieve what you want, it doesn't mean everyone else is "making excuses", it means the experience it offers is not good enough out of the box, that's why people like their consoles.
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Just to be clear, are you talking about updates related to your hardware and Windows? Because if the game code has a bug in it, then the patch will work to fix it regardless of your PC setup. The same code error is on all builds of the game that is released to the public on the same revision number. Say for instance if I forgot to put a semicolon to end a programming statement in the game code and it caused a crash, then my update would add that semicolon back in place to fix the issue. I don't have to know what type of hardware your PC has to fix my own code errors....
brap
Banned
I'm talking about like Fortnite would randomly crash when I played it years ago and the problem never got fixed or having to plug a controller into a different USB port with a certain game. Just stupid bs like that. There could be a million things that go wrong which isn't necessarily the programmers fault is it?
FeldMonster
Member
Honestly, for me the money isn't an issue. I have spent $1500 just on X1 consoles (Original, Halo 5 Edition, X). Add in Live, 2 SSDs (as you mention), extra controllers (Elite etc.) and I am over $2k before buying any games. I could also potentially add my 75", 4K HDR TV into the equation. So no, I am not saving money. I am however, getting the experience that I want, i.e. not a PC.
I wish I could buy a $1000 Xbox Series X and not need to purchase a mid-gen upgrade and additional storage, but alas, gamers are cheapskates to the nth degree.
For me, a PC is a waste, I already have a phone and a laptop, none of the non-gaming capabilities of a PC are beneficial to me, and the gaming features are a minus: desk/ monitor/ keyboard/ mouse/ Steam.
I usually found that the front USB ports on computer cases are garbage that usually fail from bad solder joints after plugging and unplugging devices into them a few times and will cause a controller to randomly drop out and then come back online. I always plugged into the motherboard's USB port at the back of the PC. I never played Fortnite. To me that game is a rip off of other games. Rust is MILES better than Fortnite.
DoctaThompson
Banned
No, Thats not what I said. Its the less intellectual people who are running into those driver issues that automatically install by themselves. Nvidia and AMD drivers install automatically. You don't need to search online to get a certain peripherals to work now a days. Long gone are those times. Its as if people are responding from the year 1996. Several people have posted ridiculous claims that have been easily refuted.
In terns of accessibility and convenience, it can go both ways. Consoles can only play games, so that can be straightforward. Pc's can do that just as easily, and then a whole lot more. For instance. I guarantee you aren't reading this or responding to this from your Xbox... I play majority of my games with an xbox one elite 2 controller. I don't NEED to use my keyboard and mouse from the couch or in my bed. Just about every game is ultrawide supported, since 2015 and beyond. This not an issue, and for the few games that aren't native, there are ways to force it. I can't play a console or my switch in Ultra wide. But I can on pc. Options and accessibility is what matters on PC.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to get a PC,. just refuting the ignorant claims people are spewing out of their ass. It's literally the same process to hook up a PC to a TV. Just plug in a hdmi cable, and voila....
brap
Banned
I mean idk it was just an example of the random garbage that happens once in a while. It's not too often but it's annoying especially when it happens with an older game or a game that's not being updated anymore.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
12Tflop rdna would be more than 2x gaming performance as xbox one x, no? The question was whether the rumors of x series being based on vega gcn were true, or whether it was based on newer rdna architecture.
There are rumors of ps5 having similar gaming performance, but also rumors of ps5 having like 9~Tflops. If both were rdna rumors of being similar or one or the other slightly more powerful wouldn't make sense.(assuming 9tflop vs 12 tflop)
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wintersouls
Member
Not everything is power. People who play in game consoles choose them for numerous reasons. Collecting these, games in physical format, special editions and comfort when playing.
Not everyone understands and knows how to configure a PC to play. In that sense, consoles are more accessible to a wider audience.
That said, let everyone play video games where it is most enjoyable and comfortable.
Not everyone understands and knows how to configure a PC to play. In that sense, consoles are more accessible to a wider audience.
That said, let everyone play video games where it is most enjoyable and comfortable.
pawel86ck
Banned
I haven't read any rumors suggesting XSX will be based on GCN Vega, however some people arnt sure if Phil Spencer was talking about gaming performance or FLOPS.
"2x xbox x power"
Depending on the interpretation it can be either 10TF Navi (2x xbox x 6TF GCN gaming performance) or 12TF Navi (2x more TFLOPS). However if we pay attention to what Phil Spencer has said in regards to xbox one comparison ("over 8x times xbox one") then we can be 100% sure he was talking about 12TF, because only 12TF fits his both descriptions (and it fits perfectly).
Yes, 12TF Navi RDNA1 should offer gaming performance comparable to 15TF GCN Vega, so more than 2x Xbox X. In fact if you take into account VRS gains (3dmark shows 75% gains thanks to VRS tier 2) it should offer even more gaming performance.
VFXVeteran
Banned
snip
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CJY
Banned
finally got rid of that foreskin eh? thanks for letting us know.
VFXVeteran
Banned
CJY
Banned
I'm not following you around. Don't get ahead of yourself. I saw this thread got bumped and happened to see it was my most despised commenter himself. Carry on then, I'll ignore you.
Neo_game
Member
I think it is very valid point. The console are just slower version of AMD cpu, gpu. Though this time they have decent specs. Disappointed with the ram though.
PS: Sony will also be irrelevant IMO if they start releasing their games on PC day1. It was always my wish to have a gaming rig, something like a supercomputer to make myself feel better. lol
PS: Sony will also be irrelevant IMO if they start releasing their games on PC day1. It was always my wish to have a gaming rig, something like a supercomputer to make myself feel better. lol
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Alphagear
Member
Sony isnt gonna release anything day 1 or do anything which will affect the playstation brand. The pc market is simply no competition for the playstation brand. Its 2020 not 2000 .No average person is gonna build a pc which is gonna cost more and at best have to wait several years for the odd ps exclusive to show up. At best that is. Lets get serious here.
LittleBusters
Banned
JLB
Banned
Exactly this.