MilkyJoe
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
It really is a case of not wanting other chips to be different. I have extreme examples, but let’s say you have 56 compute units. You won’t use all 56 because the yield chance is too low, so you use less, let’s say 52. That leaves 4 to play with, so if you have any more than 4 faulty, you bin the chip and take the loss (or use it for something else). But by making it 4 and not 0, or 1, you have given yourself a much better chance at having higher yields and thus not burning money.
kareemna
Member
Usually the chips with lesser active CUs are sold as lower end GPUs, right?
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Usually they are repurposed yes. However, that still eats into profits, because it was originally forecast for a higher earning. It’s a smart way of getting at lest part of the cost back
But that’s with GPUs... I’m not sure if the same can be applied so easily on such a massive scale with consoles. I mean, GPUs don’t sell anywhere near as much as consoles do they? (Genuine question, not sure).It’s probably the reason they picked 7nm over 7nm+ here, because the chips will have higher base yields, and on such a mass production scale, you don’t want to burn money.
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Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
B_Boss
Member
Is it a given that some will be faulty?
kareemna
Member
Usually they are repurposed yes. However, that still eats into profits, because it was originally forecast for a higher earning. It’s a smart way of getting at lest part of the cost back
It’s probably the reason they picked 7nm over 7nm+ here, because the chips will have higher base yields, and on such a mass production scale, you don’t want to burn money.
This is why i mentioned GPUs as with consoles lower yields could not generally be repurposed to be sold in any way for form. 7nm has higher yields indeed, I think over at Beyond3d discussed this.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
There are 3 reasons the PS1 , PS2 and PS4, and who ever said they were not strong? I certainly did not, what I am saying is that Sony have 3 out of 4 times have tried to found a balance of power and price, 3 out of 4 times they have not been about chasing the power crown at the sacrifice of a great price.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
In any product it’s a given you will have a small percentage of faulty units.
With stuff like this? It’s even more likely. Sadly we have yet to create a process that can make such chips perfectly, not at this small a scale.
I mean even expensive tvs still have dead pixels a lot of the time, and those are quite large.
Gediminas
Banned
wait what? do you want to say PS5 does not have RDNA2? that what i thought! #PS5inthedust
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Too many people saying "bad design" in regards to a 9.2 TFLOP PS5 have no idea what Sony's goals are this upcoming cycle. The original Xbox One wasn't a bad design. It was the perfect design for what the Microsoft leadership at the time thought the direction of the industry would be. They just happened to be dead wrong. Sony just happened to stick with the status quo with the PS4 and ended up being right about the future of the games console. The PS4 wasn't some monster-spec machine when it launched. It just happened to be competing directly with a do-everything cable-box wannabe machine. Don't forget that Sony bought into the same post-iPhone era propaganda as MS, they just had a more modest approach with a modestly specced machine with their fingers and toes dipped in motion control, media center and VR technology. But the PS4 was priced to move.
Sony might have the same approach as last gen. Release a modestly powerful machine priced to move and then release a more powerful revision two or three years later. Microsoft under Phil Spencer has always been about pure horsepower, so the Series X being a monster machine is not out of character. Post-Kutaragi Sony doesn't seem to be about winning spec sheet wars. They make their bread by shipping sleek, modestly powerful machines at a mass market price. Spec wars are for forum fanboys. If Sony has an elegant way of hardware backwards compatibility that doesn't break the bank and can deliver a 9.2 Navi TFLOPS box at $399, they'll jump at the chance and dance all the way to the bank.
A 9.2 TFLOPS (Navi) PS5 is still more than twice as powerful as PS4 Pro and about 10 times more performant than the PS4 which is about what you should expect from a generational leap. It would be typical of Sony to make a move like this.
Don't forget that a Sony console being more powerful than a Microsoft console was a generational anomaly. Xbox was more advanced than PS2 and the Xbox 360 was more powerful than the PS3. Microsoft gambled with TV, TV, TV, and Sony just happened to land in a sweet spot with specs that really didn't stand toe-to-toe with affordable PC hardware that was already out.
TLDR: You don't know what Sony's priorities are. That priority is driving the PS5's design. But you can be sure they're not trying to win a fanboy PR war. If PS5 had a horsepower edge, that would have either been announced or it would have "leaked" by now. My guess is that Sony rightly knows that it's the demos that will knock socks off and drive excitement. They'd rather have actual games to show than do a repeat of the PS3 2005 E3. That takes time. When the PS5 floodgates open it will be heavy and unrelenting up until launch. All they need to do is have their heavy hitters show actual games and 9.2 or 14 or 20 will just be a bunch of numbers.
That's just my opinion. No claim of inside information.
Sony might have the same approach as last gen. Release a modestly powerful machine priced to move and then release a more powerful revision two or three years later. Microsoft under Phil Spencer has always been about pure horsepower, so the Series X being a monster machine is not out of character. Post-Kutaragi Sony doesn't seem to be about winning spec sheet wars. They make their bread by shipping sleek, modestly powerful machines at a mass market price. Spec wars are for forum fanboys. If Sony has an elegant way of hardware backwards compatibility that doesn't break the bank and can deliver a 9.2 Navi TFLOPS box at $399, they'll jump at the chance and dance all the way to the bank.
A 9.2 TFLOPS (Navi) PS5 is still more than twice as powerful as PS4 Pro and about 10 times more performant than the PS4 which is about what you should expect from a generational leap. It would be typical of Sony to make a move like this.
Don't forget that a Sony console being more powerful than a Microsoft console was a generational anomaly. Xbox was more advanced than PS2 and the Xbox 360 was more powerful than the PS3. Microsoft gambled with TV, TV, TV, and Sony just happened to land in a sweet spot with specs that really didn't stand toe-to-toe with affordable PC hardware that was already out.
TLDR: You don't know what Sony's priorities are. That priority is driving the PS5's design. But you can be sure they're not trying to win a fanboy PR war. If PS5 had a horsepower edge, that would have either been announced or it would have "leaked" by now. My guess is that Sony rightly knows that it's the demos that will knock socks off and drive excitement. They'd rather have actual games to show than do a repeat of the PS3 2005 E3. That takes time. When the PS5 floodgates open it will be heavy and unrelenting up until launch. All they need to do is have their heavy hitters show actual games and 9.2 or 14 or 20 will just be a bunch of numbers.
That's just my opinion. No claim of inside information.
Ellery
Member
Two important things to mention here is that consoles run at lower clocks/voltages than Graphic Cards and you are also comparing the TDP of a graphic cards (which is not something you should do) to a possible 13TF RDNA2 Unit. The TDP doesn't mean power usage during certain tasks but is the thermal design power, which is slightly different.
13TF RDNA2 should be much lower than 201 watt. If you factor in lower clocks aswell (which is a given for consoles because they don't have gigantic cooling solutions like graphic cards) to hit the sweetspot then you will end up at lower than 201 W.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
If we consider RDNA 2 into account, those 9.2 TFs are much more impressive than two times PS4 Pro, it would already be around 4-5 times a PS4 Pro as practical power, at least according to AMD data. It's true that this isn't the generation of TFs, average people are gonna waaay underastimate this machines I think.
Actually, there wasn't a quote from Sony saying that PS5 is infact 4 times more powerful than PS4 Pro?
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Ellery
Member
I don't remember any quote like this, but what you say is indeed true and the reason why people should be excited about upcoming consoles.
Well I don't want to speculate too much about how many TF the PS5 is going to have, but if we look at the Xbox Series X being 12 TF RDNA2 then it is truly impressive. It is a gigantic jump over Xbox One X 6 TF. Much much more than 2x the graphical performance.
The same will be true for the PS5 even if the TF will be on the lower side of speculation it will be a gigantic leap over the PS4 Pro. And if rumors are to be believed about the PS5 being somewhere around the Series X then I will have a hard time stopping my drool just thinking about what the talented developers are going to bring to life with such a strong machine.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yes next gen is going to be very exciting regardless of where the specs end up.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Probably was just a rumor, I don't want to spread shit from nothing.
And I know we are going in circles, but we are talking only about GPU power here. Zen 2 and high speed SSD will add up to the structural differences from PS4/Ps4 Pro to the point where PS5 could be enormously superior to those. Taking into account only one thing do not make justice to the leap we are going to see. Without those, 4x the power would be wasted.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Gediminas
Banned
he forgot Dreams, NioH 2, Persona 5 Royal, MLB 20
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IkarugaDE
Member
Hey dude, not every statement automatically means that I claim that it was made by someone.
500$ for a about 12TF RDNA2 system definitely IS a balance between power and price. You can't compare the actual situation with any in the past, especially with a competitor like MS with it's 12TF machine. It IS possible sony delivers a 400$ System with fewer TF, but it is not really likely. In addition to the fact that people spend more money on electronics today, a competitive product has to be brought onto the market.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
geordiemp
Member
Problem is, the day one buys and buyers with high budget means that in the first 3-6 months is when you want to sell a pro / high spec meachine. Its year 2 when sales need a low cost machine, everyone knows that.
As such, to launch lower spec and bring higher spec in 2 years makes liittle business sense if the technology si available now, which it is.
Pro and X launched when tech was available, node shrink.
Moridianae
Member
I admit that I love the intricacies of the technology we discuss, but I'm a bit of a layman in regards to it all.
Assuming 13TF was always the target, as Osiris has said, knowing the new efficiency numbers, is it more or less realistic than it was before?
No mentions of HBM2, which I'd seen thrown around a few times that it would be neccesary to hit those higher clocks rather than DDR6. I guess because it runs cooler?
Some people hold fast to 14, which I'd like to be an optimist, but think it is a bit far-fetched.
Anyway--grateful that RDNA2 has been confirmed for both consoles and that essentially puts an end to the silly "no RT" thing going around.
I think it'll still be classified as 12TF at the reveal myself.
Assuming 13TF was always the target, as Osiris has said, knowing the new efficiency numbers, is it more or less realistic than it was before?
No mentions of HBM2, which I'd seen thrown around a few times that it would be neccesary to hit those higher clocks rather than DDR6. I guess because it runs cooler?
Some people hold fast to 14, which I'd like to be an optimist, but think it is a bit far-fetched.
Anyway--grateful that RDNA2 has been confirmed for both consoles and that essentially puts an end to the silly "no RT" thing going around.
I think it'll still be classified as 12TF at the reveal myself.
Isn't the source of that number "very accurate" VGChartz?It means Xbox is around 40 millions.
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Yeah but c'mon let's not pretend we don't know what the REAL HEAVY HITTERS had been.he forgot Dreams, NioH 2, Persona 5 Royal, MLB 20
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honestly not that appealing
kareemna
Member
We all know he is an Xbox fanboy.It means Xbox is around 40 millions.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
So we got the Playstation Ejaculator (PSE) and now Playstation foot massage (PSFM). Good, we only need PST now (Playstation Tube).
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
No, I think it looks too much as a stereo, consoles need to look as something that resemble something different from any other device. As any device, I guess.
Nickolaidas
Member
Will bookmark the bookmark of that bookmark.
FeiRR
Banned
That would be a terrible dust gatherer. Does it come from the same guy who did the previous mockup with bright blue light? He knows nothing about consumer design.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Why are you posting pictures of Emperor Palpitines chair?
ZywyPL
Banned
So PS5 will be basically a plastic armchair with a build-in console, nice.
And the biggest one of them all: Life of Black Tiger
Mriverz
Member
Game of Throne! For Action figures and dolls!
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I tried to consider it but I just CAN'T put that thing and EDF V in the same meme.And the biggest one of them all: Life of Black Tiger
Bo_Hazem
Banned
No, that is not how the math works. A 50% increase in performance per what does actually mean 100 to 150fps at 100 watts. The 33% figure is the reduction in wattage for the same performance. For example.
RDNA - 100w = 100 fps
RDN2 - 100w = 150 Ffps
RDNA2 - 66.66w = 100 FPS - a 33% reduction in watts for the same fps as RDNA2
lepermessiah
Member
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
On the subject of fakes, I just saw this floating about, and now my heart breaks it’s not real...
Mr Moose
Member
Oh shit, Persona 5 is this month? I forgot about that. I've got the collectors edition pre-ordered at Argos. Hypeeeee.he forgot Dreams, NioH 2, Persona 5 Royal, MLB 20
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Woah, put it under spoiler maybe, it takes too much space.
chigstoke
Member
That looks like some of the commodes we used to use for clients at my work. Every time I turn on that system I'd be thinking
'Damn, someone has had a dump on this'.
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Mr Moose
Member
Nice to see the PS5 comes with a 3D surround speaker to show off the audio.
(If it looked like this for real, I would consider not buying it lol).
Lone Wolf
Member
wish this was Lockhart.On the subject of fakes, I just saw this floating about, and now my heart breaks it’s not real...
FeiRR
Banned
Take your phone, buy one of those mobile joypad holders, subscribe to the cloud and there you have it.On the subject of fakes, I just saw this floating about, and now my heart breaks it’s not real...
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