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[Shin]

If it is any external SSD great, if it needs to be MS branded... well, not as good.

Seagate branded, both Xbox and Sony uses them because they are cheap and reliable.
One is proprietary ATM, but the consoles will probably closer than current gen so I wouldn't be surprised if Seagate/PlayStation do the same thing as well.

Seagate Storage Expansion Card for Xbox Series X|S | Seagate US

Enhance Xbox Series X|S gaming with Seagate Storage Expansion Card: up to 2TB capacity and Xbox Velocity Architecture integration.

www.seagate.com

PlayStation External Hard Drives and SSDs | Seagate US

Maximize your PS gaming with Seagate's PS5 & PS4 external hard drives & SSDs - high-speed, large capacity for a superior gaming experience.

www.seagate.com

 

[Markness]

Is anyone watching the actual videos posted?

Seems like people are salty and are posting drive-by comments/questions which are downplaying the reveal....

I wonder why they would be doing that?

 

[Mista]

If it is any external SSD great, if it needs to be MS branded... well, not as good.

I’m sure they aren’t that dumb to make it run exclusively on MS branded SSDs brother

 

[Panajev2001a]

Is anyone watching the actual videos posted?

Seems like people are salty and are posting drive-by comments/questions which are downplaying the reveal....

I wonder why they would be doing that?

People are watching the video and reading the article. Great hype video, it does contain great nuggets of info too: people are discussing it under both angles. It is MS’s job to hype and market their product, DF is reporting on MS marketing event (there are also genuine reasons to be excited), but posters here are not required to hype it up more else it is automatic concern trolling.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I’m sure they aren’t that dumb to make it run exclusively on MS branded SSDs brother

Xbox 360 says what ?

 

[Shin]

I’m sure they aren’t that dumb to make it run exclusively on MS branded SSDs brother

Probably the reason, there's nothing on the market with such speeds or form factor if we're talking about the expansion itself.

I/O Throughput

2.4 GB/s (Raw), 4.8 GB/s (Compressed, with custom hardware decompression block)

 

[TLZ]

So watching this again and again like the finished product it is and I'm supposed to wait another 8 months for this.

Why

 

[Mista]

People are watching the video and reading the article. Great hype video, it does contain great nuggets of info too: people are discussing it under both angles. It is MS’s job to hype and market their product, DF is reporting on MS marketing event (there are also genuine reasons to be excited), but posters here are not required to hype it up more else it is automatic concern trolling.

Why not? People are hyped for next-gen and everything shown about the XSX until now is worth the excitement so wheres the problem exactly? All of your post meaning will vanish when the PS5 gets revealed and by then you’ll only contradict yourself. Let people get excited the way they want

 

[Mista]

Xbox 360 says what ?

Lets go two generations back to compare

I can also say “Xbox One says what ?”

Don’t create an issue out of nothing just to make your point right

Probably the reason, there's nothing on the market with such speeds or form factor if we're talking about the expansion itself.

I/O Throughput

2.4 GB/s (Raw), 4.8 GB/s (Compressed, with custom hardware decompression block)

They’ll definitely get introduced in the market with time just like everything with new tech so no worries at all

 

[Shin]

The Xbox Series X is basically a monster gaming PC

Microsoft reveals more details about the hardware powering the Xbox Series X, and it's seriously impressive.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Panajev2001a]

Why not? People are hyped for next-gen and everything shown about the XSX until now is worth the excitement so wheres the problem exactly? All of your post meaning will vanish when the PS5 gets revealed and by then you’ll only contradict yourself. Let people get excited the way they want

Lol, keep the console warring angle if you must. Let people be excited if they want to be excited, not like they lack reasons. Now if in the same breath you can also say other people should not say something that may in any way shape or form dampen even unintentionally such excitement the. We disagree.
These threads should not be trolled by console warriors, but are not hype raising echo chamber like safe spaces.

 

[Mista]

Lol, keep the console warring angle if you must. Let people be excited if they want to be excited, not like they lack reasons. Now if in the same breath you can also say other people should not say something that may in any way shape or form dampen even unintentionally such excitement the. We disagree.
These threads should not be trolled by console warriors, but are not hype raising echo chamber like safe spaces.

Console warring in 2020 is pathetic by the way. I don’t waste my time in such bollocks and I also definitely don’t waste my time with butthurt clowns that sneakily tries to shit on something just because they’re salty. I’m bigger than that

 

[GHG]

As much as I agree, that is shit to have proprietary piece of HW for storage, it was expected and I think that you cannot want to have some BFU to install fragile M.2 drives, since it would require some dissasembly, etc I think there is going to be some adapters for that as well, since you are not constrained by size. If it sticks out of the console.

One solution could be that they sell you a NVMe enclosure (for say $30 or something) that would then slot into the console. Something like this:

Then give people a list of specific NVMe drives that are certified to be compatible with the console so that they can then select the drive they want at the right price.

Instead we have:

• Them selling storage devices with no competition, so they are free to price them how they want.
• Drives that can only be used on the Xbox Series X, so you can't take it out and use it in your PC or elsewhere as generic storage
• Drives where if it breaks outside of warranty you will have no chance of doing any DIY fixes or being able to take it to a hardware store that might be able to revive it.

There is no upside to this for anybody but people are defending it.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Lets go two generations back to compare

I can also say “Xbox One says what ?”

Don’t create an issue out of nothing just to make your point right

People still use the PSN Hack and PSP Memory Sticks to make a point and those were not Sony exclusive sticks either (Sandisk and others sold their sticks too).

Still, fair it is not a problem, this point and discussion on pros and cons about it should be postponed until they announce prices and suppliers. Edit: agree with GHG that these drives are still XSX exclusive for now, but I hope in the expansion slot you can retrofit your own SSD in. Else, this is Memory Stick from PSP all over again: just that memory sticks could be used in cameras too.

 

[Mista]

People still use the PSN Hack and PSP Memory Sticks to make a point and those were not Sony exclusive sticks either (Sandisk and others sold their sticks too) .

Still, fair it is not a problem, this point and discussion on pros and cons about it should be postponed until they announce prices and suppliers.

Have it been used in this discussion? Please point it out because I might have missed it then

 

[M1chl]

One solution could be that they sell you a NVMe enclosure (for say $30 or something) that would then slot into the console. Something like this:

Then give people a list of specific NVMe drives that are certified to be compatible with the console so that they can then select the drive they want at the right price.

Instead we have:

• Them selling storage devices with no competition, so they are free to price them how they want.
• Drives that can only be used on the Xbox Series X, so you can't take it out and use it in your PC or as generic storage elsewhere
• Drives where if it breaks outside of warranty you will have no chance of doing any DIY fixes or being able to take it to a hardware store that might be able to revive it.

There is no upside to this for anybody but people are defending it.

You would need a thunderbolt, which is rare on AMD boards. There is no standard PCie connection...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Console warring in 2020 is pathetic by the way. I don’t waste my time in such bollocks and I also definitely don’t waste my time with butthurt clowns that sneakily tries to shit on something just because they’re salty. I’m bigger than that

Not sure how to take that . I will not take it as a passive aggressive insult .

 

[Mista]

Not sure how to take that . I will not take it as a passive aggressive insult .

Not intended but if you feel what I said applies to you then thats something I can’t control

 

[Panajev2001a]

You would need a thunderbolt, which is rare on AMD boards. There is no standard PCie connection...

XSX is custom and it could support such modification though. Still, MS could still license/sell such an enclosure allowing a free market of custom SSD expansions and they still get to sell their shell for $15-19 each.

 

[E-Cat]

But it´s nonsense, it´s like saying that a 300hp truck "has 1000hp" because it would take a 1000hp supercar to pull what the truck can pull, apples and oranges.

Again, raytracing was going to be a part of next-gen no matter what. But two years ago, there was no feasible path forward to get to this level of performance other than 25 teraflops. Therefore, it's as if we were rendering @ 25 teraflops to get to this level of raytracing if we had no RT acceleration hw. Which is all that I'm interested in.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Not intended but if you feel what I said applies to you then thats something I can’t control

, fair... well played game of tennis here .

 

[DoctaThompson]

The Xbox Series X is basically a monster gaming PC

Microsoft reveals more details about the hardware powering the Xbox Series X, and it's seriously impressive.

www.pcgamer.com

Not this b.s. again. Consoles will never beat high end gaming computers. I understand clickbait titles gets clicks, which become revenue. But Jesus, this is so cringe to see people actually believing a $500 or $600 plastic box will beat high end desktop is not only absurd, but a pipe dream at best.

 

[Mista]

, fair... well played game of tennis here .

If personally I didn’t like you and actually didn’t enjoy discussing with you I would’ve ended all that before it even started. Have a good day my man

 

[Panajev2001a]

Again, raytracing was going to be a part of next-gen no matter what. But two years ago, there was no feasible path forward to get to this level of performance other than 25 teraflops. Therefore, it's as if we were rendering @ 25 teraflops to get to this level of raytracing if we had no RT acceleration hw. Which is all that I'm interested in.

I can kind of understand this, but this is the same kind of math nVIDIA used to say PS3’s RSX was 2 TFLOPS...

Also, those extra TFLOPS for RT are for a “part” of the RT equation so to speak, you will need the “basic” 12 TFLOPS to do the bulk of the shading work still when you are ray tracing your scene.

 

[E-Cat]

I can kind of understand this, but this is the same kind of math nVIDIA used to say PS3’s RSX was 2 TFLOPS...

Yeah, it all depends on the intent; which in NVIDIA's case was to deceive.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah, it all depends on the intent; which in NVIDIA's case was to deceive.

Marketing is about hyping, sometimes in a slightly deceiving way but with a kernel of truth (not to be sued or embarrassed). Corporations focus on marketing.

 

[Shin]

Not this b.s. again. Consoles will never beat high end gaming computers. I understand clickbait titles gets clicks, which become revenue. But Jesus, this is so cringe to see people actually believing a $500 or $600 plastic box will beat high end desktop is not only absurd, but a pipe dream at best.

It's the take of a PC focus and oriented site, what people make of it and/or believe I could give 2 shits about.
I didn't read the article nor care for it, posting as I just came across it while reading - end of discussion.

 

[E-Cat]

Marketing is about hyping.

Yes, but you can hype without being misleading.

 

[GHG]

You would need a thunderbolt, which is rare on AMD boards. There is no standard PCie connection...

What do you mean there's no standard PCIe connection? All NVMe drives slot into a PCIe slot on the motherboard. What do you think their proprietary solution is ultimately slotting in to? If they sold an enclosure the male slot could be on the external of that, just as it is on the storage they will be selling.

 

[M1chl]

XSX is custom and it could support such modification though. Still, MS could still license/sell such an enclosure allowing a free market of custom SSD expansions and they still get to sell their shell for $15-19 each.

Sure, we don't know if inside would be some standard M.2 drive or if it's going to be proprietary all the way...

What do you mean there's no standard PCIe connection? All NVMe drives slot into a PCIe slot on the motherboard. What do you think their proprietary solution is ultimately slotting in to? If they sold an enclosure the male slot could be on the external of that, just as it is on the storage they will be selling.

I meant external PCie connection. Like a standard, aside from Thunderbolt, which would be like 40 bucks just for licence. Sure they could do that, like you've said, but as much as slim chance there is to happening, we still don't know the final product and accessories.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes, but you can hype without being misleading.

MS is not saying “well this makes it 25 TFLOPS of rasterisation performance plus ray tracing rendering performance”, but their statements help people imply that in their minds. Most marketing’s slight deceptions are induced, not stated outright. Anyways, sorry getting way off topic here.

 

[GHG]

Sure, we don't know if inside would be some standard M.2 drive or if it's going to be proprietary all the way...

For that reason I'm intrigued to see what information teardowns of these drives will bring. If there's some standard Seagate firecuda inside then oh dear. I doubt they would be so stupid though.

 

[Jon Neu]

Wow.

25 TERAFLOPS!!!1!!

 

[DoctaThompson]

It's the take of a PC focus and oriented site, what people make of it and/or believe I could give 2 shits about.
I didn't read the article nor care for it, posting as I just came across it while reading - end of discussion.

So posting something you didn't even read is beneficial to whom again? You can't say no discussion after posting something, to an online forum, that you don't even understand, because you didn't even read it. What is the logic behind that?

 

[M1chl]

For that reason I'm intrigued to see hat information teardowns of these drives will bring. If there's some standard Seagate firecuda inside then oh dear. I doubt they would be so stupid though.

But that custom shit costs money, to make it proprietary, I don't know where they are aiming at, but for sure it's not going to be cheap and make shit proprietary costs even more money. Sure they can regain some money by people buy these things, like they did with 360 enclosures and harddrives, but still, it's not mandatory this time, since if they make that SSD inside like AMD makes it with storeMI on PCs (while plugged with external drive), it's possibly non-issue. If the console would come without storage, then it would be total shitshow.

 

[GHG]

But that custom shit costs money, to make it proprietary, I don't know where they are aiming at, but for sure it's not going to be cheap and make shit proprietary costs even more money. Sure they can regain some money by people buy these things, like they did with 360 enclosures and harddrives, but still, it's not mandatory this time, since if they make that SSD inside like AMD makes it with storeMI on PCs (while plugged with external drive), it's possibly non-issue. If the console would come without storage, then it would be total shitshow.

Don't lol. Getting Xbox 360 core flashbacks.

Now that you mention it they could absolutely do that with their lower end configuration but I suspect in this day and age it's the disk drive they will remove to cut costs.

I also don't doubt it costs money to create proprietary solutions but it also means they can sell them at crazy profit margins since they have full control due to no competition. These things won't be cheap.

 

[E-Cat]

RDNA 2 fully supports the latest DXR Tier 1.1 standard, and similar to the Turing RT core, it accelerates the creation of the so-called BVH structures required to accurately map ray traversal and intersections, tested against geometry. In short, in the same way that light 'bounces' in the real world, the hardware acceleration for ray tracing maps traversal and intersection of light at a rate of up to 380 billion intersections per second.

How does this metric compare to NVIDIA's Gigarays/second? Seems to be quite different, for example the RTX 2080 Ti "only" packs 10 billion rays/second. What does "intersections per second" mean?

 

[ZywyPL]

Fantastic presentation and can't wait for next-gen! This is really awesome hardware, WAY beyond what I was expecting.

Here's hoping the ps5 can somewhat match it..

They better do, otherwise all the tech put into XBX will be basically wasted and used only in a bunch 1st party titles (unless automatically being utilized without devs interference). But reading how many custom hardware-based features are build into that 360mm chip, and furthermore is backed up by Microsoft's proprietary software solutions, I can see Sony going with a more simple, but still powerful system, like the rumored 14-15TF, which would be more beneficial for all the 3rd party titles out there, because it would be accessible just like that, without any effort.

You would need a thunderbolt, which is rare on AMD boards. There is no standard PCie connection...

USB 3.2 Gen 1 already offers 5Gbps bandwidth, Gen 2 10Gbps, Gen 2x2 20Gbps, so even the base Gen 1 connection offers enough bandwidth for XBX SSDs, so that's not the issue, the problem is the drives themselves, how many of them offer (steady) 2.4Gbps bandwidth? IMO it's a good move from MS to secure the integrity of the solution, otherwise I can see shitloads of people cheaping out with a typical 1-1.5Gbps drives, or SATA SSDs for the matter, or even old HDDs like I can already read in lots of the comments... And the best part? They would blame the console/MS if something wasn't working well.

But the funniest thing is, it was such an awesome idea back when it was rumored what Sony was going to do for PS5, but once it turn out it's MS who actually pulled it out for XBX it's all of a sudden a terrible, anti-consumer practice xD People don't have the console yet, didn't even start filling the build-in 1TB drives (with said build-in compression), and are already moaning about a theoretical issue that doesn't exist... Get a life some of you pathetic nerds, for real...

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Is anyone watching the actual videos posted?

Seems like people are salty and are posting drive-by comments/questions which are downplaying the reveal....

I wonder why they would be doing that?

Because there is nothing much that is actually new, we knew about compatibility with old games, we knew the basic specs (CPU/GPU) we knew there was going to be an SSD, and if you paid attention you knew some existing games would be patched with some kind of "next gen" features.

This thing has no games made for it, so you can wait a year or more after release to buy one you won't miss anything (the X already does a pretty good job of running existing games).

and we don't know what it's up against, hopefully sony will have more to show than existing games.

 

[Flick]

I also don't doubt it costs money to create proprietary solutions but it also means they can sell them at crazy profit margins since they have full control due to no competition. These things won't be cheap.

not really, they simply didnt have a choice. there is NOTHING LIKE THAT AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW. So they DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE!!!!!!

Also, keep in mind, that nextgen games are going to be heavily compressed, meaning that those games will take MUCH LESS space, so 1TB of that is worth much more than TBof current gen.

Also, you can just use your traditional large HDD for OG xbox, xbox 360 and xbox one games! And backup your series X games there! no need to redownload, just move them. Why is microsoft allowing that? If MS really would want to make profits with that, they would NOT allow that at all! Also they are partnering with Seagate, its not like they are doing it themselves, why would they partner with seagate there? -->> BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THAT ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW!

I think you are just trying to shit on xbox SPREADING FUD.

 

[DoctaThompson]

How does this metric compare to NVIDIA's Gigarays/second? Seems to be quite different, for example the RTX 2080 Ti "only" packs 10 billion rays/second. What does "intersections per second" mean?

Evilms put a nice comparison in the speculation thread based on Nvidia's numbers.

 

[Shin]

So posting something you didn't even read is beneficial to whom again? You can't say no discussion after posting something, to an online forum, that you don't even understand, because you didn't even read it. What is the logic behind that?

The people that have asked where their PC's are now obsolete because of the new console(s), since you're talking about online forums you might have came across them.
Don't assume you know me and what I understand or don't, you know jackshit.

Great video and he brought up the concern some had about the size/shape at around 17:00 mark.
1.5M views in less than 24h, DF needs to do something to reach a wider audience because they equally do good work.

 

[DoctaThompson]

The people that have asked where their PC's are now obsolete because of the new console(s), since you're talking about online forums you might have came across them.
Don't assume you know me and what I understand or don't, you know jackshit.

So you post an article, that you haven't even read, in regards to that? I still don't understand the logic behind that. Would that be similar to me responding to your post, without even reading what you said? I don't have to know you personally to realize that wasn't the wisest thing to do....

 

[Shin]

I still don't understand

I already wrote who it's meant for, doesn't mean I have to read it myself.
Not hard to understand, so some searching before jumping the gun and it will make sense.

 

[intbal]

But will it play...

?

 

[E-Cat]

Evilms put a nice comparison in the speculation thread based on Nvidia's numbers.

Thanks, but this is comparing apples to oranges. RT-OPS =/= "TF equivalents", AFAIK.

 

[Flick]

Thanks, but this is comparing apples to oranges. RT-OPS =/= "TF equivalents", AFAIK.

yeah, this guy doesnt know shit lol extremely misleading

 

[Shin]

The industrial design they got going is kinda nice.

 

[GHG]

not really, they simply didnt have a choice. there is NOTHING LIKE THAT AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW. So they DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE!!!!!!

Also, keep in mind, that nextgen games are going to be heavily compressed, meaning that those games will take MUCH LESS space, so 1TB of that is worth much more than TBof current gen.

Also, you can just use your traditional large HDD for OG xbox, xbox 360 and xbox one games! And backup your series X games there! no need to redownload, just move them. Why is microsoft allowing that? If MS really would want to make profits with that, they would NOT allow that at all! Also they are partnering with Seagate, its not like they are doing it themselves, why would they partner with seagate there? -->> BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THAT ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW!

I think you are just trying to shit on xbox SPREADING FUD.

I'll have a reasonable discussion with those who warrant it, not you.

 

[DoctaThompson]

yeah, this guy doesnt know shit lol extremely misleading

Pretty sure he has a good idea of what he's talking about. It's like comparing gcn to rdna2 TF. Not exactly comparable in that degree. If you have something to add or even contradict it, please go ahead!