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[Endless Fluff]

This console is thermal throttling and he even says that if a game launches that overwhelms the console, thermals are so bad that it needs to downclock by 10%... what does that tell us? They're pushing for 10TF because they didn't expect MS to come out the way they did... I bet that if Sony went first, that 9.2TF rumor would've been true, because 10% downclock means that this console will run at 9.2TF when it's too hot.

Now we also know why MS was stressing that their console is able to hit frequencies consistently.

I'm also curious about the SSD speeds. Again, MS stressed that they're hitting their speeds all of the time, no throttling. Everyone who takes a good hard look at some Gen4 SSD benchmarks knows that they all can't keep their top speeds for long time.

The BC bullshit is the icing. How can you not guarantee 100% compatibility? You are on the same friggin architecture.

The shit presentation style with fake audience didn't help either.

 

[CJY]

What bothered me the most was the fake silhouette of the people! It was a bit like Science Picture 2000 esque, except not moving nor funny..

They weren't fake though.

 

[thelastword]

Well that was a bit of a shit show.

Positives:

• Not as weak as was feared.
• Loading speeds are isanely fast, which means using that streaming tech they have for games like Horizon will potentially give them better results than the raw power might suggest
• No proprietary expandable storage
• PS4 backwards compatibility
• The audio tech will be great for VR
• Genuine differences in their and MS's approach this gen could well give much greater variation in games and features.
• Definitely not just a more limited PC.

Negatives

• Not insignificantly weaker than the XSX, both in the CPU and GPU. Definitely not god for multiplats.
• That weakness is unlikely to mean a lower price tag given the other tech they focused on instead.
• No backwards compatibility with PS1, 2 or 3, limited for PS4.
• Less storage than XSX

Just bloody baffling:

• Dry as buggery presentation. This should have been after a big flashy blowout, not the only thing they show.
• No games. Seriously, thats the thing that always sets Playstation apart and wins them generation after generation. No one would give a shite about the power if we had an insane next gen sizzle reel and a first party exclusive reveal or two
• Cleary no care taken to address the criticisms they've been receiving for the past few years, or actually compete.
• No information on actual games or what their studios are doing with this tech.
• No price.
• No release date.
• Bo addressing the coronavirus.
• That sudden ending.

All in all, well at the moment I think I'm just going to put a few hundred more into my new laptop budget instead of getting either this or the XSX, then holding out for either the Switch 2 or PS5Pro before jumping to 9th gen.

Yes I understand, but this was supposed to be a breakdown for developers and not end users per se...

So I guess we will see the games and demos a bit later in the year.

 

[Mista]

The people who got tickets of the hype train when they leave

I expected more to be honest but since its an upgrade from my Pro then I'll eventually take it

 

[joe_zazen]

I respect that. That's class.

Edit - but will you admit I was right about something is wrong at Sony

it does look that way, lots of signs with management shakeups and terrible maketing and closing studios and now a console that has too few cus to be competitive.....i really thought they were going to knack it out of the park with their reveal but this was so bad.

 

[CJY]

Yes I understand, but this was supposed to be a breakdown for developers and not end users per se...

So I guess we will see the games and demos a bit later in the year.

Yeah... back to worrying about the fall of society for now.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Yes I understand, but this was supposed to be a breakdown for developers and not end users per se...

So I guess we will see the games and demos a bit later in the year.

Sure, but we didn't even get info on the controller features (arguably, devs will ignore half of them) nor PS VR 2.

 

[j0hnnix]

This is probably causing more chaos at the "other" forum than the coronavirus.

 

[UnNamed]

focused R&D on audio and the likes, like everyone is an audiophile.
The only positive take away for me from all this is the blazing fast SSD speed, that is quite an achievement I must say.

RTX Audio is a built in feature from AMD cards, it's something we'll see, more or less, on XSX too. Same the SSD, which is, from what we have seen, faster on PS5 but I don't know if we will see big difference in games.

 

[ElCasual]

It was the presentation of the GDC to announce some of the features of the console, not the official presentation of the console.
Some have not found out yet.

About power. They have invested a lot in the SSD, and it will show. I am not worried about TF, I am worried as I said before the conference the catalog and in that Sony will not disappoint.
Just because it's 2 TF less than xbox doesn't mean it's not a good monster.

Buy why do that? I mean we know the Xbox series X design even since december a clip of Halo was show.
And meanwhile PS has NOTHING TO THE FANS

 

[Yakuzakazuya]

I'll buy day one if the price is significantly lower than XSex.

 

[CatLady]

it does look that way, lots of signs with management shakeups and terrible maketing and closing studios and now a console that has too few cus to be competitive.....i really thought they were going to knack it out of the park with their reveal but this was so bad.

Yeah it almost rivals the Xbox One reveal. Almost, I don't think anything will ever top that.

 

[Ristifer]

Loool hyperbole much. We havent seen either or what they can deliver.

Do you know what hyperbole means?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

The people who got tickets of the hype train when they leave

I wanna be buried on the train

never leaving

 

[Hosam6xavi]

I expected more to be honest but since its an upgrade from my Pro then I'll eventually take it

When Microsoft start talking about series X i knew that they have a better machine

 

[lachesis]

They weren't fake though.

Really? They were so still - I thought they were stock image cutout.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I'll buy day one if the price is significantly lower than XSex.

I would be surprised if it's more than $50

 

[CJY]

Really? They were so still - I thought they were stock image cutout.

nah, they were deffo humans, saw them move. Maybe they were fake and overlaid though. Not sure about that, but definitely not just cardboard cutouts.

 

[Codes 208]

Yes I understand, but this was supposed to be a breakdown for developers and not end users per se...

So I guess we will see the games and demos a bit later in the year.

Showing games at gdc isnt uncommon. Iirc halo 4’s first gameplay reveal was at gdc. And it really doesnt help that this was technically the first reveal for ps5 aside from the name drop. With the ps4, we already had the reveal plus games at this point of time.

 

[SoggyBiscuit]

399 or bust for me. Though the advances and tech they're pushing in other aspects is certainly going to drive the price up significantly.

 

[ethomaz]

rop and tmu are coupled with cu.

Sony not only lack computational power but also texturing and fillrates.

It will run at 9tflops speed unless you are playing minecraft.

I cant believe how hard Sony failed this round. But console wars are always flipping between leaders.

It is like I said.

Not wishing to draw comparisons with any existing hardware past, present or future, Cerny presents an intriguing hypothetical scenario - a 36 CU graphics core running at 1GHz up against a notional 48 CU part running at 750MHz. Both deliver 4.6TF of compute performance, but Cerny says that the gaming experience would not be the same.

"Performance is noticeably different, because 'teraflops' is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU. That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units - and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33 per cent higher frequency, rasterisation goes 33 per cent faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L1 and L2 caches have that much higher bandwidth, and so on," Cerny explains in his presentation.

Higher frequency makes all others parts of the GPU runs faster.
The exemple is really good both nVidia or AMD GPU perform better with higher clocks even if the same peak TFs.
Even the GPU cache is faster.

About the 9TFs both Cerny and DF are saying the typical clock is 2.23Ghz... so it will runs most of time at 10.2TFs.

 

[jonnyp]

Well that was disappointing. Guess they spent a lot of the BOM on the SSD and I/O controller - I really fail to see how that makes up for raw power but then again I'm not a developer.

Even if the clockspeeds were locked it's still a PS4 worth of GPU power alone gap between the consoles - that's substantial. I really thought they would be much closer in performance.

 

[DJTaurus]

Hold your horses about boost. It’s a different boost on ps5 compared to PCs. We are not talking about thermal throttling here:

It's really important to clarify the PlayStation 5's use of variable frequencies. It's called 'boost' but it should not be compared with similarly named technologies found in smartphones, or even PC components like CPUs and GPUs. There, peak performance is tied directly to thermal headroom, so in higher temperature environments, gaming frame-rates can be lower - sometimes a lot lower. This is entirely at odds with expectations from a console, where we expect all machines to deliver the exact same performance. To be abundantly clear from the outset, PlayStation 5 is not boosting clocks in this way. According to Sony, all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be.

 

[SGRU]

This console is thermal throttling and he even says that if a game launches that overwhelms the console, thermals are so bad that it needs to downclock by 10%... what does that tell us? They're pushing for 10TF because they didn't expect MS to come out the way they did... I bet that if Sony went first, that 9.2TF rumor would've been true, because 10% downclock means that this console will run at 9.2TF when it's too hot.

Now we also know why MS was stressing that their console is able to hit frequencies consistently.

I'm also curious about the SSD speeds. Again, MS stressed that they're hitting their speeds all of the time, no throttling. Everyone who takes a good hard look at some Gen4 SSD benchmarks knows that they all can't keep their top speeds for long time.

The BC bullshit is the icing. How can you not guarantee 100% compatibility? You are on the same friggin architecture.

The shit presentation style with fake audience didn't help either.

That theory seems really plausible, they might be "overclocking" the initial design of the PS5 because they thought Xbox wouldn't be that far.

Anyway, it seems like a PS4 Pro - Xbox One X difference, so not a big deal.

I just want them to show games, price and cooling solution.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

The BC story of PS5 is muddy at best as well.

And absolutely no indication of PS1-3 BC really grinds my gears the wrong way.

Same here.

Unless they're saving the news for later, I'm solidly in the No Buy camp.

PS VR 2 at an affordable price + a PS5 Pro might turn me around but I want b.c. this gen.

 

[tflopsmatter]

That theory seems really plausible, they might be "overclocking" the initial design of the PS5 because they thought Xbox wouldn't be that far.

Anyway, it seems like a PS4 Pro - Xbox One X difference, so not a big deal.

I just want them to show games, price and cooling solution.

The difference is HUGE.

The PS5 has a far weaker GPU, a weaker CPU that doesn't even have 16 threads, less bandwidth, etc. The only thing the PS5 has that's better is the SDD. However, it doesn't matter to me if a game loads one second faster.

The price doesn't matter to me because I won't buy a system that isn't a generational leap.

For the record, I won't be buying any console this generation because I'm sure the XBox will require you to connect to the internet for activation.

 

[tflopsmatter]

That theory seems really plausible, they might be "overclocking" the initial design of the PS5 because they thought Xbox wouldn't be that far.

Anyway, it seems like a PS4 Pro - Xbox One X difference, so not a big deal.

I just want them to show games, price and cooling solution.

The PS5 GPU is a 9.2TF GPU that they allow to be overclocked to 10.3GPU so that people wouldn't be so shocked by a sub 10TF GPU.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Consider 9 TF RDNA2 is equivalent to 11-12TF GCN, more than 6X the power of PS4 GPU, not counting the VRS and the FP16 switch, the nominal power of PS5 GPU is vast superior to PS4.

It's not PS5 is weak, is XSX that is a fucking monster.

I think that's for RDNA1 RDNA2 is 50% better than RDNA1.

thermals are so bad that it needs to downclock by 10%... what does that tell us? They're pushing for 10TF because they didn't expect MS to come out the way they did... I bet that if Sony went first, that 9.2TF rumor would've been true, because 10% downclock means that this console will run at 9.2TF when it's too hot.

10%? I thought I heard a few percent and it'd be negligible.

edit:

The PS5 has a far weaker GPU, a weaker CPU that doesn't even have 16 threads, less bandwidth, etc. The only thing the PS5 has that's better is the SDD. However, it doesn't matter to me if a game loads one second faster.

did they say the cpu is only 8 threads at any moment?

 

[CJY]

Same here.

Unless they're saving the news for later, I'm solidly in the No Buy camp.

PS VR 2 at an affordable price + a PS5 Pro might turn me around but I want b.c. this gen.

Yeah, I'm firmly in the no-buy camp as well.

Let's hope when they ramp up the marketing, we'll see all the consumer-facing features of the console and maybe that'll swing things around.

I feel like I learned nothing today to be honest. At least, no more than I got from the Wired articles. So It's clear that this presentation wasn't for me at all. And not for millions of people watching either.

The wait continues...

 

[Danjin44]

So far neither Microsoft or Sony give me any reason to be excited for next gen, but thankfully 2020 is good year for actual games.

 

[ethomaz]

That theory seems really plausible, they might be "overclocking" the initial design of the PS5 because they thought Xbox wouldn't be that far.

Anyway, it seems like a PS4 Pro - Xbox One X difference, so not a big deal.

I just want them to show games, price and cooling solution.

It is way smaller difference than Pro to X.

Pro to X: +42%
PS5 to Xbox SX: +18%

 

[GrybuySlon]

With 4k textures and all the new generation stuff.... good luck with that 5-7 seconds. I think it's a much bigger deal than that!

I've been watching your posts...certainly a slant to them. Good luck with that, it appears the load time is all that you've got as you keep hammering this home.

 

[Shin]

Same here.

Unless they're saving the news for later, I'm solidly in the No Buy camp.

PS VR 2 at an affordable price + a PS5 Pro might turn me around but I want b.c. this gen.

If it's already like that at the start I don't expect it to get better when we've had 7 years for them to do something about BC and they didn't.
Be it PS4 or the upcoming PS5, their effort is minimum and dependent on them, would you honestly trust a company with that when they want to sell you a refresh copy?
As for Xbox I still think they should have gone with 4GB DDR4L for the OS, not sure if the connector on the console is USB-C, but Occulus would have been an option or should have.

I'm honestly sitting here behind the computer and thinking, I'm really shocked at what I watched and heard.
To the point that I can't even begin how it all came to that - go figure.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

PS5 to Xbox SX: +18%

is this assuming the PS5 is always sustaining 10.3 tf?

 

[TTOOLL]

Will definitely buy it! Next gen will be sick, this is so much powerful than my PS4 pro lol

 

[GrybuySlon]

I've been watching your posts...certainly a slant to them. Good luck with that, it appears the load time is all that you've got as you keep hammering this home.

Posted to quick...as for me, double or tripple my load time if that means better performance. I'm OK with that.

 

[ethomaz]

is this assuming the PS5 is always sustaining 10.3 tf?

Well they used the word typical... so yes.

Now how much the clock drops? Even if it drops to 2000Mhz that is a 31% difference... lower than Pro to X.
2100Mhz? 25%.

That is when happened.
Developers will probably won't let that happen.

"Developers work to the power limits of the SoC, their workloads affecting frequencies on the fly - but it's those factors that impact the clock speeds, not ambient temperatures. "

 

[Romulus]

The difference is HUGE.

The PS5 has a far weaker GPU, a weaker CPU that doesn't even have 16 threads, less bandwidth, etc. The only thing the PS5 has that's better is the SDD. However, it doesn't matter to me if a game loads one second faster.

The price doesn't matter to me because I won't buy a system that isn't a generational leap.

For the record, I won't be buying any console this generation because I'm sure the XBox will require you to connect to the internet for activation.

Didn't xbox themselves allude to the SSD being used for in game, not just loading? If so, it couldn't hurt to have a far faster variation.

 

[Mista]

When Microsoft start talking about series X i knew that they have a better machine

Me too bro

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Its not on the customer to understand al this, its just a bad decision from sony to have this as the big PS5 spec unviel, even if it is technical its reaching millions of people on social media.
They should of done a far simpler and casual version first and released this later.

But this would have happened even if this took place at GDC, right? I honestly prefer this super technical talk coming from engineers now, get it out of the way, so we can finally, and I mean FINALLY see some damn games. I don't want to see anymore Spiderman demos, I don't want to see Minecraft with RT, I don't want to see Gears5 loading is 5 times faster. I don't want to see influencers telling me about the new XSX/PS5... i see enough of them on my Instagram discovers already LOL

 

[Kagero]

It's a wait and see for me. If there's something compelling at launch I'm all in, but as it stands now. I'm still very happy with my PS4.

 

[Arkam]

That was a great presentation and built my hype for next gen. Too bad there are still so many unknowns. But at least we have more high level facts to frame conversations with.

 

[phil_t98]

Yes I understand, but this was supposed to be a breakdown for developers and not end users per se...

So I guess we will see the games and demos a bit later in the year.

so what is your opinion on the specs compared to series x specs? genuine question.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

If it's already like that at the start I don't expect it to get better when we've had 7 years for them to do something about BC and they didn't.
Be it PS4 or the upcoming PS5, their effort is minimum and dependent on them, would you honestly trust a company with that when they want to sell you a refresh copy?
As for Xbox I still think they should have gone with 4GB DDR4L for the OS, not sure if the connector on the console is USB-C, but Occulus would have been an option or should have.

Well no, I don't trust Sony to include it which is why I'm waiting awhile longer to see if they turn around on it. I'm also cautiously optimistic for PS VR2 but I need to see it first.

Until then, I'll play the games I already own. Sony had a chance to get me to play those games on their new box (with some next-gen on the side) but oh well.

 

[LOLCats]

Been working, missing all this god damn fun

 

[thelastword]

OK tbh, this is what I really wanted to see, you guys have heard me say several times that the breakdown is what's more interesting to me than just the TF number.

I find the TF and CU power could be higher, but it seems they went really high end on the cooling solution for the worse case scenario, the most stressful gpu+cpu call..... 2.23ghz is really high and I'm really curious how high it can run uncapped, that part was really fascinating to me.....

I think they went all out on sound, this should be really impressive in games, should be a tangible upgrade over PS3 audio which I dearly missed....

All in all, it sounds like a very easy console to develop for, that's a great thing.... I think the custom engineering and its strengths will be quite noticeable, but I do wish their clocks were higher and they had more ram..... I suspect this will be a $399 console again..as opposed to a $500 console, but we shall see...

The way Cerny speaks, it's still a work in progress on many fronts till launch day, so the upcoming information and reveals should be interesting.

 

[SGRU]

The difference is HUGE.

The PS5 has a far weaker GPU, a weaker CPU that doesn't even have 16 threads, less bandwidth, etc. The only thing the PS5 has that's better is the SDD. However, it doesn't matter to me if a game loads one second faster.

The price doesn't matter to me because I won't buy a system that isn't a generational leap.

For the record, I won't be buying any console this generation because I'm sure the XBox will require you to connect to the internet for activation.

Did they really said it doesn't have Hyper-Threading?

Well, if the difference is really important, I might buy both the PS5 and the Xbox for the multi-platforms.

 

[Jigga117]

The difference is HUGE.

The PS5 has a far weaker GPU, a weaker CPU that doesn't even have 16 threads, less bandwidth, etc. The only thing the PS5 has that's better is the SDD. However, it doesn't matter to me if a game loads one second faster.

The price doesn't matter to me because I won't buy a system that isn't a generational leap.

For the record, I won't be buying any console this generation because I'm sure the XBox will require you to connect to the internet for activation.

Are we still here with this bullshit????

 

[SGRU]

It is way smaller difference than Pro to X.

Pro to X: +42%
PS5 to Xbox SX: +18%

T tflopsmatter just said the difference will be HUGE.

Who should I believe?

 

[Bartski]

The fact they decided to go for raw tech talk without a second of graphics capabilities on display was quite a shock a huge mistake in my opinion. Not a one in-engine demo of whatever, didn't have to be a game even just an eyes on LOOK THIS IS WHAT IT CAN DO. Seems like they weren't fully aware as this is the first real live console reveal and it will be watched by hundreds of thousands of technically illiterate children starving for news about their new PlayStation and some eye candy to fuel their hype. All they really get from this is it has 1.7 less TF than the XeX hurr durrr Sony bad. I hope that such demo is soon to follow now due to the backlash unfolding among a large part of the target audience. I'm buying both consoles on launch and I'm super excited to see what's next regardless but I'm baffled by the current reveal strategy of Sony, as compared to how amazingly well they did it with the PS4