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[Wandering Leopard]

He was making an assumption, which he admitted to, about the SSD being used for the OS to allow the console to use more of the 16gb ram.

It's likely Cerny is still figuring out the allocation which is why he didn't comment on it. It's something I would have expected to be mentioned at a GDC presentation.

 

[Gamerguy84]

I genuinely love NXGamer and I hope Digital Foundry hires him soon enough!

Same. Ive been a fan of NX for a while. I dont want DF to hire him though. I watch him and DF.

They are both great at what they do.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Nice . Let's see how they go head to head later on this year

 

[Shmunter]

Solid video NX, have a cookie!

What NX digested for our ease of consumption is undoubtedly the sentiment of every single dev out there that is an actual dev.

Don't call me a fragile fanboy! I would be singing the exact tune were it reversed between MS & Sony. I'm all about the tech and I'm lucky enough to have enough clarity of vision to add 2 & 2 together. PS5 is the next gen disruption the sector needs.

Yes XsX has an extra ~2f, and it will result in more raw pixels. But what is also true are diminishing returns at these levels especially with reconstruction techniques and dynamic rez scaling etc.

But a game made around the PS5 ram subsystem cannot be replicated on XsX without drastic cutbacks.

The possibilities the PS5 offers to devs is a whole new paradigm shift for the industry.

 

[dano1]

Games are pretty much going to look the same anyway! I’m more excited about the new Cerny custom sound chip!!!

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Solid video NX, have a cookie!

What NX digested for our ease of consumption is undoubtedly the sentiment of every single dev out there that is an actual dev.

Don't call me a fragile fanboy! I would be singing the exact tune were it reversed between MS & Sony. I'm all about the tech and I'm lucky enough to have enough clarity of vision to add 2 & 2 together. PS5 is the next gen disruption the sector needs.

Yes XsX has an extra ~2f, and it will result in more raw pixels. But what is also true are diminishing returns at these levels especially with reconstruction techniques and dynamic rez scaling etc.

But a game made around the PS5 ram subsystem cannot be replicated on XsX without drastic cutbacks.

The possibilities the PS5 offers to devs is a whole new paradigm shift for the industry.

Mark Cerny does it yet again

 

[Gamernyc78]

It is cute the way you conduct yourself. Reminds me of my time in elementary school. You are basically a toddler. Can I pinch your cheek and give you a lollipop ,

Make sure to have him run off with his Wipees in case he has to go poo

 

[dottme]

The only thing I’m worried is that the PS5 put itself apart on the architecture and the needed optimization for the game. If the PS5 doesn’t sell well, all this will be wasted.

 

[Ar¢tos]

We only have paper numbers and it's hard to judge real performance from that.
We have to wait until games are shown (multiplatform games) to be able to evaluate the difference between the consoles.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Solid video NX, have a cookie!

What NX digested for our ease of consumption is undoubtedly the sentiment of every single dev out there that is an actual dev.

Don't call me a fragile fanboy! I would be singing the exact tune were it reversed between MS & Sony. I'm all about the tech and I'm lucky enough to have enough clarity of vision to add 2 & 2 together. PS5 is the next gen disruption the sector needs.

Yes XsX has an extra ~2f, and it will result in more raw pixels. But what is also true are diminishing returns at these levels especially with reconstruction techniques and dynamic rez scaling etc.

But a game made around the PS5 ram subsystem cannot be replicated on XsX without drastic cutbacks.

The possibilities the PS5 offers to devs is a whole new paradigm shift for the industry.

The problem is that they have to keep up a narrative beyond “Phil gave us a 14% faster box TFLOPS wise”, PS5 must be a shit HW and Sony has just been out engineered: it cannot have areas where it is better and that matter.
Those kind of fans will need to find and put down any perceived strength in PS5. This is similar to the stupidity that would not let some see such things as the full virtualisation approach MS took as being a long term great move (especially for BC).

 

[sinnergy]

The problem is that they have to keep up a narrative beyond “Phil gave us a 14% faster box TFLOPS wise”, PS5 must be a shit HW and Sony has just been out engineered: it cannot have areas where it is better and that matter.
Those kind of fans will need to find and put down any perceived strength in PS5. This is similar to the stupidity that would not let some see such things as the full virtualisation approach MS took as being a long term great move (especially for BC).

Its simple we are back to the future and fluxed back to 2013, but now Sony is in MS position.

 

[TimFL]

Do we know if the PS5 has a stacked GPU yet for 21tflops?

 

[Shmunter]

Mark Cerny does it yet again

It's magnificent, it truly is.

A next gen should be packed full of excitement and positive surprises. And I'm excited, and that's all that can be asked.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Its simple we are back to the future and fluxed back to 2013, but now Sony is in MS position.

PR wise they are doing a shitty job, that is true, but their messaging is not shit, they are just shit at delivering it as a company a bit. PS5 is not $100 more expensive than XSX and slower in most ways. MS built up the hype really well and, my hat is off to them, like a proper iterative hardware maker (think iPhone yearly releases) they pushed very hard to get easier to market spec figures high.

All the threads you see popping up from Xbox fans with “is SSD really that important?” “Why a faster SSD is unnecessary” (like the one by DynamiteCop! ) are exactly what I was talking about in the post you quoted.

 

[Shmunter]

The problem is that they have to keep up a narrative beyond “Phil gave us a 14% faster box TFLOPS wise”, PS5 must be a shit HW and Sony has just been out engineered: it cannot have areas where it is better and that matter.
Those kind of fans will need to find and put down any perceived strength in PS5. This is similar to the stupidity that would not let some see such things as the full virtualisation approach MS took as being a long term great move (especially for BC).

Totally. Anyone knocking MS's effort and results in BC is just another fool in a long line of fools. Credit where credit is due.

 

[phil_t98]

so when the ps4 launched tf mattered because it was pushing higher resolutions than the xbox one, check back for digital foundry videos from early gen. then the ps4 pro launched and full 4k didn't matter as checker boarding was good enough and you couldn't really see the difference and now tf don't matter only ssd's

 

[Hawking Radiation]

How's the GAF Gold going so far for you?

Mate I didnt even realise it until today. Have no idea what gold is all about. Just happy I can continue to post and chat about games with you guys.

 

[Deeper Underground]

so when the ps4 launched tf mattered because it was pushing higher resolutions than the xbox one, check back for digital foundry videos from early gen. then the ps4 pro launched and full 4k didn't matter as checker boarding was good enough and you couldn't really see the difference and now tf don't matter only ssd's

Lol People like you really aren’t understanding how this generation and next gen are in no way comparable and it’s quite hilarious seeing all these warriors besides themselves in rage that the PS5 could possibly outdo the XSX in real world performance.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Mate I didnt even realise it until today. Have no idea what gold is all about. Just happy I can continue to post and chat about games with you guys.

Are you from Toronto?

 

[phil_t98]

Lol People like you really aren’t understanding how this generation and next gen are in no way comparable and it’s quite hilarious seeing all these warriors besides themselves in rage that the PS5 could possibly outdo the XSX in real world performance.

ok so the ssd can deliver 5.5 gb per second, do you know how that compares to actual memory? I mean ddr 5 can deliver 51.2gb per second so how can this be used as extra ram? if it does it will slow the system down massively

 

[Deeper Underground]

ok so the ssd can deliver 5.5 gb per second, do you know how that compares to actual memory? I mean ddr 5 can deliver 51.2gb per second so how can this be used as extra ram? if it does it will slow the system down massively

Well first of all, the PS5 and XSX are using GDDR6 RAM so that doesn’t even apply here. As to the I/O throughput, the PS5 is transferring 5.5Gb/s of raw data and even higher compressed. What this means is that with the extra features Sony is putting in, it’s going to allow Sony to be able to access the pool of RAM at any time they want instead of having to “pre-load” it for what could happen 30 seconds down the road. You really need to watch NX Gamer’s video.

 

[DForce]

ok so the ssd can deliver 5.5 gb per second, do you know how that compares to actual memory? I mean ddr 5 can deliver 51.2gb per second so how can this be used as extra ram? if it does it will slow the system down massively

It was explained in the PS5 Deep Dive video.

It's about moving data to the memory. It's so fast that it can load high quality assets as you look through the environment.

That's really fast.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

The spins keep coming lol.

All that "13.3 tf" bullshit before the unveiling and now they don't matter . So much damage control going on, its reminiscent of the Xbox One announcement.

It's like opposite world right now.
"Dat SSD" is the new "ESRAM secret sauce".

Things will be so funny when the first mulitplats hit with better looking XSEX versions.
But then it will be "them exclusives".

 

[phil_t98]

Well first of all, the PS5 and XSX are using GDDR6 RAM so that doesn’t even apply here. As to the I/O throughput, the PS5 is transferring 5.5Gb/s of raw data and even higher compressed. What this means is that with the extra features Sony is putting in, it’s going to allow Sony to be able to access the pool of RAM at any time they want instead of having to “pre-load” it for what could happen 30 seconds down the road. You really need to watch NX Gamer’s video.

people on this thread are speculating that the new ssd in the ps5 which is impressive could be used as extra ram, now I know that this gen is gadder 6 which is even faster than DDR 5 which is why I used a lower common denominator as my point. now with GDDR 6 being much fast there is no way the new ssd can be used as ram, if it would it would massively slow down the system compared to GDDR 6

 

[phil_t98]

It was explained in the PS5 Deep Dive video.

It's about moving data to the memory. It's so fast that it can load high quality assets as you look through the environment.

That's really fast.

yes it is I agree but so is the ssd in the other console, we are going from speeds of 200mb per second to 25.gb on other console to 5.4 on ps5 both will do it stupidly fast

 

[DForce]

yes it is I agree but so is the ssd in the other console, we are going from speeds of 200mb per second to 25.gb on other console to 5.4 on ps5 both will do it stupidly fast

The reason why people are saying this will mostly be used by Sony's first party is because the SSD on the XsX is not fast enough. I say mostly first party because third part devs can still make PS5 exclusives using this tech.

 

[phil_t98]

The reason why people are saying this will mostly be used by Sony's first party is because the SSD on the XsX is not fast enough. I say mostly first party because third part devs can still make PS5 exclusives using this tech.

how do you know it won't be fast enough? its 1 second slower

 

[DForce]

how do you know it won't be fast enough? its 1 second slower

If it was fast enough, then why did they decided to go for such a high SSD speed?

Cerny said the speed was a target was not only to eliminate loads, but to also stream data. Doesn't seem like a lower speed would work based on their target. They needed something faster than what's currently on the XsX.

 

[phil_t98]

If it was fast enough, then why did they decided to go for such a high SSD speed?

Cerny said the speed was a target was not only to eliminate loads, but to also stream data. Doesn't seem like a lower speed would work based on their target. They needed something faster than what's currently on the XsX.

nobody has seen any benefit real world yet. they showed Spiderman off ps4 load in one second, now when it comes to true next gen games it won't be one second.will the super fast SSD be held back by less CU's and that variable clock speed we don't know yet. it looks like a great addition the super fast SSD but as I said we don't know real world how it will help

 

[NXGamer]

Great video, I love the fact that he is suggesting that the ps5 will use almost all of its Ram for games, we are going to have a great laugh when Sony announces how much Ram the OS is using, cause they sure as hell weren't transparent about that too , among many other things.

I just want to clarify this as I see it may have been misconstrued. What I am saying is that when a game boots, you only need to keep the Kernal thread for actions and the main UI for notifications etc all resident in Ram to enable standard OS calls, priority etc etc. Then the rest of the OS can be cached into the SSD, so when you press the home/PS button the .5 sec delay (which can sometimes be longer on PS4 when you press the Share button for example) can be used to swap back the rest into Ram in the background. This, any many other paths, can be taken with a system built around unifiying the I/O so that rather than take 3GB persistent RAM the OS takes 1-1.5GB instead. Recall the X360/PS3 OS resided within ~70MB if I recall.

 

[Panajev2001a]

nobody has seen any benefit real world yet. they showed Spiderman off ps4 load in one second, now when it comes to true next gen games it won't be one second.will the super fast SSD be held back by less CU's and that variable clock speed we don't know yet. it looks like a great addition the super fast SSD but as I said we don't know real world how it will help

You could make a case that extra TFLOPS are also held back by SSD speed when in both systems SSD is used as extension of RAM (no, this is not about closing the gap or beating it, etc... let’s step off the warring path ).
See how much gnashing of the teeth there is if a L2 cache grows in size but increases in latency by 5-6 cycles (ns!!!) and then think how you can bottleneck RAM and waste it when the SSD cannot fill it fast enough.

Cerny’s math was sound and simple: the faster the SSD (latency and throughput wise) the less buffering you need to do in RAM to cover the extra time it takes to load the data you need. His example was keeping in RAM 1s of gameplay data vs old generation where you had to preload like 16 seconds or more worth of gameplay data.

Also, you keep saying “we do not know how the SSD can help”: Cerny spent the bulk of the presentation going over it in detail (but again he is an engineer and not a PR person, it is not in his nature to hype well hehe ).

 

[BigLee74]

Hearing it all now. Suddenly the new xbox SSD, at what, about 50 times faster than previous hard drives, is too slow.

Too slow for what, exactly?

Love the enthusiasm shown by the PS fans though, from wailing despair to a little dog humping the leg of its owner in 24 hours flat.

Time will tell who's right I guess.

 

[NXGamer]

K watched it. Your typical youtuber, reads some specs on reddit and is a expert. makes a video and falls flat on his face.

Conclusion.

Guy has no clue what he's talking about. He just rambles information of a sheet and makes comparisons that are laughable bad. I could make a list but why bother. I must say its not as bad as his tflops are a lie video as he completely missed the ball there. Actually its even worse because he used the same reasoning in this video STILL.

Yikes the video.




Again Terrible video.

Testing a nvidia gpu versus a amd gpu is kinda pointless. Anybody knows this, Nvidia tflops are different from AMD as they use different architectures this is well known. Tflops from nvidia are only interesting towards nvidia products.

This makes the video kinda rough to watch entirely because the point he tries to make is useless.

Tflops is used to see what a card performs against the one before it and that's why nvidia and amd pushes it.

Tflops are not a lie as they are a indication of performance specially when u talk about 2 platforms that use the exact same architecture. Which those consoles funny enough feature rofl.

Also comparing pc games vs console games even while u don't know the settings of said console is also laughable at best to draw conclusions out of it.

Want to compare different architectures or platforms? compare them with same source of data and see what they do, still performance will fluctuate for different games which is why you make a list of non biased games with settings that are realistic ( no hairworks etc ) and compare it to see what the tflops actually mean as result.

All this flew right over his head.[/B]

Can we have 1 at least and then let's discuss?

And for your second part here:-

"Anybody knows this, Nvidia tflops are different from AMD as they use different architectures this is well known. Tflops from nvidia are only interesting towards nvidia products. "

This just proves my point AGAIN, if Nvidia Tflops are not the same as AMD Tflops, then Tflops are not 100% accurate for a reference then are they?

Also, I thought this above logic (not mine by the way) states that Nvidia gets more from less Tflops? Which in the tests I did (which are 100% accurate and valid by the way) shows that AMD, in this instance, is getting more from them, further emphasising the Tflop focus issue around it.

Your thoughts please?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Hearing it all now. Suddenly the new xbox SSD, at what, about 50 times faster than previous hard drives, is too slow.

Too slow for what, exactly?

Love the enthusiasm shown by the PS fans though, from wailing despair to a little dog humping the leg of its owner in 24 hours flat.

Time will tell who's right I guess.

Again, more interested to keep up a narrative than anything else it seems given the contempt you have for Sony fans there: “PS5 cannot have any strengths, shit HW, MS out engineered them”...

 

[BigLee74]

Again, more interested to keep up a narrative than anything else it seems given the contempt you have for Sony fans there: “PS5 cannot have any strengths, shit HW, MS out engineered them”...

Who are you quoting exactly? Because those are not my words...

Anyway, can't give any more of my precious time to people that use the word narrative! Keep bigging up that SSD as the gen winner all you want.

 

[Shmunter]

I just want to clarify this as I see it may have been misconstrued. What I am saying is that when a game boots, you only need to keep the Kernal thread for actions and the main UI for notifications etc all resident in Ram to enable standard OS calls, priority etc etc. Then the rest of the OS can be cached into the SSD, so when you press the home/PS button the .5 sec delay (which can sometimes be longer on PS4 when you press the Share button for example) can be used to swap back the rest into Ram in the background. This, any many other paths, can be taken with a system built around unifiying the I/O so that rather than take 3GB persistent RAM the OS takes 1-1.5GB instead. Recall the X360/PS3 OS resided within ~70MB if I recall.

You made it clear in the vid. Don’t think anyone could be confused, have faith in your art kimosabi!

 

[UnNamed]

If PS5 can really swap OS from ram to SSD would be awsome, but we should wait until confimation.

 

[Shmunter]

Can we have 1 at least and then let's discuss?

And for your second part here:-

"Anybody knows this, Nvidia tflops are different from AMD as they use different architectures this is well known. Tflops from nvidia are only interesting towards nvidia products. "

This just proves my point AGAIN, if Nvidia Tflops are not the same as AMD Tflops, then Tflops are not 100% accurate for a reference then are they?

Also, I thought this above logic (not mine by the way) states that Nvidia gets more from less Tflops? Which in the tests I did (which are 100% accurate and valid by the way) shows that AMD, in this instance, is getting more from them, further emphasising the Tflop focus issue around it.

Your thoughts please?

All the posts positively discussing your analysis and you chose to reply to the town dunce. Common son, get with the plan!

 

[Hosam6xavi]

Can't wait to see how much Xbox series X games runs better and the talk Will change to comparing exclusives

 

[phil_t98]

Again, more interested to keep up a narrative than anything else it seems given the contempt you have for Sony fans there: “PS5 cannot have any strengths, shit HW, MS out engineered them”...

they do have strengths, I am a ps4 owner but the fact that its being pumped the the SSD makes up for a less powerful console is a bit silly. now don't get me wrong I am going to get a PS5 but it is under power compared to Series X. I am looking forward to seeing what the PS5 does

 

[Physiognomonics]

Can't wait to see how much Xbox series X games runs better and the talk Will change to comparing exclusives

Just remember that plenty of games run better on Pro. And the gap between Pro and XBX is much higher (like 3 times higher on GPU and Bandwidth) than PS5 and XSX.

You might be surprised of what good software and tools can do.

 

[Psykodad]

how do you know it won't be fast enough? its 1 second slower

1 second can make a lot of difference

Can't wait to see how much Xbox series X games runs better and the talk Will change to comparing exclusives

There won't be much to talk about when it comes to 3rd party games, so obviously exclusives will continu to be the go-to subject.
Just like any other gen.

 

[Hosam6xavi]

Just remember that plenty of games run better on Pro. And the gap between Pro and XBX is much higher (like 3 times higher on GPU and Bandwidth) than PS5 and XSX.

You might be surprised of what good software and tools can do.

As if XSX wouldn't have good software tools comparing to last gen ?

I can't take Sony first party dev talk seriously also it's all PR BS

 

[phil_t98]

1 second can make a lot of difference

There won't be much to talk about when it comes to 3rd party games, so obviously exclusives will continu to be the go-to subject.
Just like any other gen.

there is only so much on screen at once, I get how good the SSD is but other factors will also play a part such as the power of the machines

 

[MilkyJoe]

You Guys

 

[Caio]

he is a known Sony shill though. And has been hard working on defending Sony:

[NX Gamer] Is the PS5 only 9Tflops? | Let's Talk

I think this guy gives good perspective on the latest leaks, what do you guys think? I have not seen a thread on this, I assume since we have DF thread, this is fair (he claims he has worked in the business for 20+ years).

www.neogaf.com

Back in January, his conclusion:

„numbers don’t matter, it’s the developer and the team, the talent that matters.“. Lol.

that’s it folks! Let’s all develop on PS1, SNES and OG XBOX.
TFLOPS don’t matter!

SNES is a very old system, while PS5 is just 15% less powerful according to TF. That's why TF do not matter so much, but the talent of developers.
Also, many games will be developed with the lowest common denominator in mind in the case of XBox, so, we'll see the exclusive games, which ones look and play more "Next Gen" between PS5 and XSX.

 

[Shin]

In the end, the result is that the developer is saying that PS5 has an advantage in this area, so not much difference, but an important distinction.

He is right, but it should also be noted that he's someone that works at ND, fair is fair though you don't need to work on Xbox to know the SSD in PS5 is faster.

Co-Game Director on The Last of Us Part II, Game Director on Uncharted: The Lost Legacy,
@Naughty_Dog
. Co-Lead Designer, Uncharted 4: A Thief's End

 

[Psykodad]

there is only so much on screen at once, I get how good the SSD is but other factors will also play a part such as the power of the machines

Not denying that, but that’s part of what Cerny was talking about:
The idea behind it is to allow for very different ways of gamedesign.

That's the entire issue right now, Sony hasn't provided anything concrete to back up the talking points.

And what I'm mostly curious about, is how this will relate to VR.
Because as far as I can follow the discussions on all the tech, it seem that the PS5's design can have a major impact on the VR experience.

 

[Deeper Underground]

Can we have 1 at least and then let's discuss?

And for your second part here:-

"Anybody knows this, Nvidia tflops are different from AMD as they use different architectures this is well known. Tflops from nvidia are only interesting towards nvidia products. "

This just proves my point AGAIN, if Nvidia Tflops are not the same as AMD Tflops, then Tflops are not 100% accurate for a reference then are they?

Also, I thought this above logic (not mine by the way) states that Nvidia gets more from less Tflops? Which in the tests I did (which are 100% accurate and valid by the way) shows that AMD, in this instance, is getting more from them, further emphasising the Tflop focus issue around it.

Your thoughts please?

Sorry man, you’re just a shill and have no clue what you are talking about. /s

Great video! You have definitely earned a subscribe from me.

 

[Night.Ninja]

NXGamer Great video as always