Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, Sony is using the tempest chip, but you need to ray trace that afterwards. So both will cut some of that out of the GPU.
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Well, Sony is using the tempest chip, but you need to ray trace that afterwards. So both will cut some of that out of the GPU.
Reindeer
Member
It's also funny you should mention that when so many PS gamers were making fun of Xbox gamers when original PS4 had 16% advantage over Xbox (1080p vs 900p) in most games. Funny how that 16% was all the rage and now 15% is apparently irrelevant and it's all about SSDI don't get all this excitement over 15% more GPU that wont be noticable at all in games
Enjoy your TF
. So much hypocrisy amongst fanboys when it comes to these things. This wasn't directed at you personally btw, just my observation of what's going on.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Fucking PCs holding back consoles.
pasterpl
Member
title of this slide is spot on! It is a dream, if everything falls into place that would be the outcome. Still, it is only a dream.
My understanding is that TEMPEST does everything for you, its the equivalent of ~110-150GFLOPS or theres about iirc.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Not sure, if so then that'll free the GPU then in PS5. Cerny said it's as powerful as 8 jaguar cores of the PS4 combined! It's the pinnacle of sound detailing/quality making the glorious Dolby Atmos (paid, not free) look like a midget.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
It was 15% in resolution and then frame rate and AA settings and whatnot, because GPU and RAM differences were way bigger than now overall.It's also funny you should mention that when so many PS gamers were making fun of Xbox gamers when original PS4 had 16% advantage over Xbox (1080p vs 900p) in most games. Funny how that 16% was all the rage and now 15% is apparently irrelevant and it's all about SSD
Mind you, still silly to speak like it's another game, I agree, both consoles performed within mediocrity.
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xHunter
Member
It's also funny you should mention that when so many PS gamers were making fun of Xbox gamers when original PS4 had 16% advantage over Xbox (1080p vs 900p) in most games. Funny how that 16% was all the rage and now 15% is apparently irrelevant and it's all about SSD
been a though 7 years for you bud, sorry to hear that
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I would love Sony to buy back VAIO or reinvest in smart laptops or 2-1 tablets.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Have you ever seen a PC gamer mock console gamers because of 20-40 seconds faster loading? No lol, it's always been about graphical fidelity and framerate. Imagine PC gamer making fun of another PC gamer because of faster SSD
This post makes no sense. lol
The SSD for next generation consoles is going to be use differently than what PC gamers are using today. Games will be designed to take advantage of the SSD.
Many things contribute to graphic fidelity, not just the GPU alone.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
ruvikx
Banned
The CPU? RAM? Those spring to mind first. It's not like the Series X has a shit SSD either.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Actually both PC and Xbox will hinder next gen gaming, along with development periods for devs. That's why developers are pretty excited for this advanced piece of tech.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's not shit, but shit enough to work 4x as much and bring more hassle into game design.
Reindeer
Member
I never owned an Xbox One and been enjoying 60FPS on PC while you had to play games at 30FPS. My condolences to you
.I am not sure now but I do remember the 8 jaguar cores quote which is a tonne of power for audio alone.
xHunter
Member
actually i switched to pc gaming around the time dayz mod (which was in mid 2012,) first came out, so i dont know why you assumed i have been playing only on playstation.I never owned an Xbox One and been enjoying 60FPS on PC while you had to play games at 30FPS. My condolences to you
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
I never owned an Xbox One and been enjoying 60FPS on PC while you had to play games at 30FPS. My condolences to you
THIS IS, ladies and gentlemen, why PC gamers and Xbox fans are united. Funny thing is at the end of the day they get ridiculed by PC gamers and have zero response to them. PC gamers are having a parade now that they'll play one old PS4 exclusive, which is more like a tease for next gen
Show them what they're missing with the mediocre library they got out of xbox and existing PC
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ruvikx
Banned
And that reference to game design apparently only depending on the hard drive (SSD in this instance) is where people are very wrong. I get the impression "loading assets faster" has turned into "ps5 games will be bigger, better & have more stuff in them" in peoples minds.
How about no.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I'm sure if you can stream high quality assets on screen quickly with the use of the SSD that will sure help in the graphics department.
Yes, if you dump high quality assets right in front of you with the help of the SSD, then that only contributes to your game looking better.
This is more than just a few seconds of faster loading time. lol
Reindeer
Member
What about Star Citizen that was built for SSD technology, have you ever seen its gamers mock others because of SSD? No lol, it was never a thing amongst gamers.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's mentioned in the lecture as well, but need to rewatch it to give the exact position of the quotation.
The PlayStation 5's Tempest 3D audio engine is so revolutionary that Sony may ask you to send a photo of your ears for added realism
Sony is equipping the PlayStation 5 with a revolutionary Tempest 3D audio engine that focuses a lot on positional audio experiences using HRTF methods. The PS5's Tempest Engine actually leverages an entire GPU compute unit for audio processing. Sony will be further improving audio in the years...
www.notebookcheck.net
Reindeer
Member
I'm talking specifically about resolution here and how people made such big deal because of 16% advantage, same people that now wanna write off 1.87 tflop advantage and talk about SSD. I know not all PS gamers are like this, but the bias is obvious with fans of each system.
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rnlval
Member
Better read https://gpuopen.com/gaming-product/true-audio-next/
AMD's True-Audio Next includes audio raytracing via Radeon Rays.
XSX GPU has larger RT cores and CU resources when compared to PS5's combined GPU and DSP. Each XSX-GPU CU has 233 GFLOPS.
8 Jaguar cores of the PS4 has about 100 GFLOPS.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I guess you are right, bias is inevitable.
Some people need to play more. When you like Undertale, Anodyine or Wasteland 2 as much as the rest you realize this 16% shit is insane.
Reindeer
Member
Lol. You can enjoy far better experience with 98% of games on PC with far higher resolution and framerate and have much better experience overallTHIS, ladies and gentlemen, why PC gamers and Xbox fans are united. Funny thing is at the end of the day they get ridiculed by PC gamers and have zero response to them. PC gamers are having a parade now that they'll play one old PS4 exclusive, which is more like a tease for next gen
. I can also pick PS5 for cheap down the line to play 5-6 must have games. And that library you call mediocre is 98% of the games on your console . Or are you gonna keep replaying 10 hour campaigns of few Sony exclusives for the next 7-8 years? Here, have some 
.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, mate, how about you watch and understand what he said? I know, it's a long lecture, but it should give a real boost to any gamer about gaming development knowledge. I'm a simple teacher for example.
Faster SSD's mean no replicas needed, direct streaming from the SSD and they've made many custom chips to supplement all their system overall and eliminate bottlenecks. Results in more room for CPU/GPU/RAM, no need to explain what that mean as well.
When RTX 2080 Super (11.9 TF) gains only around 4-6fps compared to RTX2080 (10.1 TF) for a 60fps game (assuming devs won't shoot for 70fps to stablize it) with the same everything, that SSD will maul that difference and might even give a jump over it.
For further details, watch more analysis or go back to the GDC thingy.
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The bolded is utter crap, the XSX has more CUs and more RT cores but they aren't any more powerful then the ones in the PS5.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Lol. You can enjoy far better experience with 98% of games on PC with far higher resolution and framerate and have much better experience overall
Yeah, fortnite and PUBG, yay excited.
Joking, enjoy your gaming even if it's solitaire.
(no homo, no connection, air-based kiss)
Aceofspades
Banned
It's also funny you should mention that when so many PS gamers were making fun of Xbox gamers when original PS4 had 16% advantage over Xbox (1080p vs 900p) in most games. Funny how that 16% was all the rage and now 15% is apparently irrelevant and it's all about SSD
Let me ask you this, how did PS4 manage to get 20% better resolution than Xbox One? A 40% more capable GPU with 125% faster BW and more Rops ..etc
So using the same analogy, a 40% GPU can yield a 15% resolution pump. Apply this to PS5 snd Series X and try to figure out ehat can a 15% more GPU can yield in resolution, 3%? 5%? 3fps more?
all that without taking into consideration resolution diminishing returns, and when we are approaching 4k and higher resolution good luck trying to spot differences between 4k native and few lines less than that
Reindeer
Member
But you assumed I'm an Xbox owner and proceeded to mock me
.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Star Citizen does not require an SSD, neither is the game designed to take full advantage of the SSD. I also seen PC gamers mocking gamers for not having an SSD to boot up their games. This rarely happens since PC gamers don't really know when someone is not using an SSD and it's not a huge requirement.
Still, SSD will have a much greater use next gen and it's more than a few seconds of load times that you're trying to portray in this thread. lol
It's like if I said, "The Xbox One X only has a bit more RAM than the PlayStation 4 Pro" when the RAM on the Xbox One X could provide 4K textures on games. That difference is what people paid attention to when it came to DF comparisons.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Again, ray traced audio is another matter. Sound reflections is not as taxing as mentioned by Cerny. The Tempest is more of an enhancement of 3D audio itself, or let's say a supplementary chip for high-end sound quality that bigger than Dolby Atmos. In other words:
Reindeer
Member
Fake News. PS4 only had 16% resolution advantage because the rest of that 40% GPU advantage was spent on PS4 games running at higher settings along with resolution. They couldn't use those resources to go for higher resolution due to poor CPU that would have framerate tanking if they went above 1080p, so it made more sense to use it for higher quality visuals.Let me ask you this, how did PS4 manage to get 20% better resolution than Xbox One? A 40% more capable GPU with 125% faster BW and more Rops ..etc
So using the same analogy, a 40% GPU can yield a 15% resolution pump. Apply this to PS5 snd Series X and try to figure out ehat can a 15% more GPU can yield in resolution, 3%? 5%? 3fps more?
all that without taking into consideration resolution diminishing returns, and when we are approaching 4k and higher resolution good luck trying to spot differences between 4k native and few lines less than that
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Reindeer
Member
Star Citizen was built around SSD tech and performance is unbearable on mechanical harddrives, watch DF analysis for this.
Radeon Rays is literally acceleration via the GPU.
Zzpaff
Member
[QUOTE = "BGs, publicación: 257470347, miembro: 776070"]
exacto.
Lo siento chicos, anoche estaba tratando de explicar de dónde vino mi 13.8.
Me siento mejor. Pero todavía estoy en la cama.
Como estas aqui ¿todo bien?
[/ CITAR] Yo me he levantado hoy con un Tos tonta que me esta empezando a preocupar
..:.
Y asi, entre nosotros, Sobre las maquinas, hemos visto todo o podemos esperar alguna sorpresa mas.
cuídate mucho
exacto.
Lo siento chicos, anoche estaba tratando de explicar de dónde vino mi 13.8.
Me siento mejor. Pero todavía estoy en la cama.
Como estas aqui ¿todo bien?
[/ CITAR] Yo me he levantado hoy con un Tos tonta que me esta empezando a preocupar
..:.Y asi, entre nosotros, Sobre las maquinas, hemos visto todo o podemos esperar alguna sorpresa mas.
cuídate mucho
Reindeer
Member
So you'll be replaying solo campaigns of few Sony exclusives for the next 7-8 years?Yeah, fortnite and PUBG, yay excited.
Joking, enjoy your gaming even if it's solitaire.
ClearMind
Report me for console warring (Xbot, Xbro etc.)
It's also funny you should mention that when so many PS gamers were making fun of Xbox gamers when original PS4 had 16% advantage over Xbox (1080p vs 900p) in most games. Funny how that 16% was all the rage and now 15% is apparently irrelevant and it's all about SSD
1920 x 1080 = 2073600
1600 x 900 = 1440000
2073600 / 1440000 = 1.44
Conclusion? PS4 rendered 44% more pixels than the Xbone.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I basically never play multiplayer, I actually plan to replay at least Death Stranding, Bloodborne and TLG on PS5, and play SotC Remake for the first time lolSo you'll be replaying solo campaigns of few Sony exclusives for the next 7-8 years?
xHunter
Member
But you assumed I'm an Xbox owner and proceeded to mock me
Because between us two you are the one that constantly downtalks one of the two consoles. Just look at your postcount and your content, you have 200 posts since thursday only in this thread where you are bashing anyone that even tries to think that the ps5 can be better in one department. Dont see why any sane person that is not a die hard fanboy would do that.
Reindeer
Member
That's not the math those people were using when they mocked Xbox
.
ClearMind
Report me for console warring (Xbot, Xbro etc.)
No, thats the exact math people used last gen because its the only math.That's not the math those people were using when they mocked Xbox
Bo_Hazem
Banned
So you'll be replaying solo campaigns of few Sony exclusives for the next 7-8 years?
Nah, I stop playing, and wait for another single-player. True speaking, last time I played was like a month ago. Might jump in and play The Crew 2.
Reindeer
Member
I never made fun of PS5 as a console and never once said it was a bad console, my point it has inferior specs in some regards are factual and some folks here are getting triggered by that. I also never downplayed how fast SSD is on PS5 is, I only make fun of those who seem to think SSD will make up that GPU difference and hype it up to more than it is. And it's cute of you to count amount of messages I have, I'm glad I have such an avid follower
.It appears from the presentation that the RT solutions from ps5 compared to XSX is different. In summary, appears to be superior on the XSX.
Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.
Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.
I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:
"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."
XSX Ray tracing sounds much stronger because of additional, separate, dedicated hardware that can run in parallel...ie...25TFs with Ray tracing. Which is like Nvidia s separate RT cores, MS appears to have a separate block of AMD RT cores. It even sounds like MS can use the CUs cores together with the separate AMD RT cores together for the "25TFs" of Ray tracing , which I wonder if the full path Minecraft Ray tracing is doing..ie .using more than just the dedicated block?
www.eurogamer.net
And based on the fact that Cerny previously routed rapid pack math..ie..fp16 for the PS4 pro(8TFs fp16 talk anyone?) but but makes no mention similar to Gossen in Cernys tech , dev friendly deep dive in regards to RT(like Gossens 25 TFs) like he does comparing PS4 CUs to Ps5 CUs equivalency...and does state it's built in...makes me think they are different in this way....ps5 built in to CUs vs XSX additional dedicated hardware.
Sony isn't touting RT to the same degree and performance level that MS is.
I am not saying this is for sure, but if I had to say, this appears to be the case based on the details that have been shared so far from both sides.
Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.
Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.
I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:
"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."
XSX Ray tracing sounds much stronger because of additional, separate, dedicated hardware that can run in parallel...ie...25TFs with Ray tracing. Which is like Nvidia s separate RT cores, MS appears to have a separate block of AMD RT cores. It even sounds like MS can use the CUs cores together with the separate AMD RT cores together for the "25TFs" of Ray tracing , which I wonder if the full path Minecraft Ray tracing is doing..ie .using more than just the dedicated block?
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
And based on the fact that Cerny previously routed rapid pack math..ie..fp16 for the PS4 pro(8TFs fp16 talk anyone?) but but makes no mention similar to Gossen in Cernys tech , dev friendly deep dive in regards to RT(like Gossens 25 TFs) like he does comparing PS4 CUs to Ps5 CUs equivalency...and does state it's built in...makes me think they are different in this way....ps5 built in to CUs vs XSX additional dedicated hardware.
Sony isn't touting RT to the same degree and performance level that MS is.
I am not saying this is for sure, but if I had to say, this appears to be the case based on the details that have been shared so far from both sides.
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Reindeer
Member
Not all third party games are multiplayer.
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Fortuneelsewhere
Member
My take from the PS5 reveal and following discussion:
Ultra fast proprietary SSD:
CPU & GPU:
Very strong CPU and a strong (it could be faster - I mean more TF) and high clocked (looking forward to see how this will impact game performance) GPU with great features as the geometry engine, tempest audio, ray tracing, that will make for really fantastic and mind blowing games..
The way Sony have build the SSD and the way it hopefully will impact all the systems in the game will be standard going forward and I expect MS to follow it with SEX (midgen) 3 years from now...
With this said SEX is for sure a wonderful machine with definitely more raw compute power (that will show for sure in many games regarding resolution and frame rates) but it seems to me more an evolution than a revolution.
I expect great things from both but I would be lying if I don’t say that I’m really enthusiastic to see if in fact all the exotic parts in the PS5 will come together to elevate the game experience or fall short on its promises.. I’m hoping for the former..
Ultra fast proprietary SSD:
- Freedom to developers regarding building new and innovative game worlds without having to deal with multiple compromises because the slow drive (I really think this is huge and really a fundamental change in the way games will evolve regarding gameplay options)
- Ultra level detailed scenes with high quality assets across the board independent from the draw distance (we are not ready for the crazy beautiful goodness devs will create)
- Unload a tremendous workload from developers regarding micro managing memory allocation and streaming in order to acomodate slow drive;
- Negligible or non existent load times,
- Super fast boot of games and system;
CPU & GPU:
Very strong CPU and a strong (it could be faster - I mean more TF) and high clocked (looking forward to see how this will impact game performance) GPU with great features as the geometry engine, tempest audio, ray tracing, that will make for really fantastic and mind blowing games..
The way Sony have build the SSD and the way it hopefully will impact all the systems in the game will be standard going forward and I expect MS to follow it with SEX (midgen) 3 years from now...
With this said SEX is for sure a wonderful machine with definitely more raw compute power (that will show for sure in many games regarding resolution and frame rates) but it seems to me more an evolution than a revolution.
I expect great things from both but I would be lying if I don’t say that I’m really enthusiastic to see if in fact all the exotic parts in the PS5 will come together to elevate the game experience or fall short on its promises.. I’m hoping for the former..
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Wait, so you want me to watch DF analysis on this when it comes to Star Citizen, but you ignore them when it comes to their analysis on how much of an improvement the SSD will provide for next gen gaming beyond load times?
I know how Star Critizen was build to take advantage of the SSD, but full advantage? That's a different case. We're talking about things that would not be possible on a regular harddrive, which makes these two comparisons different.
You can tell me to watch DF but ignore them when it comes to the SSD in next gen consoles.
It appears from the presentation that the RT solutions from ps5 compared to XSX is different. In summary, appears to be superior on the XSX.
Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.
Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.
I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:
"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."
XSX Ray tracing sounds much stronger because of additional, separate, dedicated hardware that can run in parallel...ie...25TFs with Ray tracing. Which is like Nvidia s separate RT cores, MS appears to have a separate block of AMD RT cores. It even sounds like MS can use the CUs cores together with the separate AMD RT cores together for the "25TFs" of Ray tracing , which I wonder if the full path Minecraft Ray tracing is doing..ie .using more than just the dedicated block?
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
And based on the fact that Cerny previously routed rapid pack math..ie..fp16 for the PS4 pro(8TFs fp16 talk anyone?) but but makes no mention similar to Gossen in Cernys tech , dev friendly deep dive in regards to RT(like Gossens 25 TFs) like he does comparing PS4 CUs to Ps5 CUs equivalency...and does state it's built in...makes me think they are different in this way....ps5 built in to CUs vs XSX additional dedicated hardware.
Sony isn't touting RT to the same degree and performance level that MS is.
I am not saying this is for sure, but if I had to say, this appears to be the case based on the details that have been shared so far from both sides.
They both most likely use bog standard RDNA2 which is a modification to the TMU that runs at performance linear to the CU count and clock of the GPU core. The XSX is about 18% more powerful RT wise.
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