bitbydeath
Member
It's the same thing. Solutions to reduce bottlenecks.
End to end bottlenecks though, inclusive of GPU and CPU.
It's the same thing. Solutions to reduce bottlenecks.
Sorry as long as Microsoft is not providing the biggest incentive to buy a console (exclusiveeee games!!!) They can't even touch Sony. The closest they came was Xbox 360 era and PS3 still outsold them . In what parallel universe do you live? And this generation will not be different. You can take a screenshot and rub it in my face if I am wrong. As long as i can play Xbox games on PC there is not a single reason to get that box of plastic. The same goes for Sony. If they start to put all their games on PC they won't get my money.
I don't care if it comes 3 years down the line. If it is like on Xbox, that would bother me. Like i wouldn't wait 2 years or longer to play Tlou 2Yea, well, you might have to start saving up for a PC then. Seriously folks. this generation is going to be different as far as Sony exclusives ONLY coming out on the PS platform. I've been preaching this for nearly a year and I still don't see it discussed when people try to pinpoint the uniqueness of Sony's exclusive games. It's just not going to be like last gen anymore. The signs are all over the place.
I don't care if it comes 3 years down the line. If it is like on Xbox, that would bother me. Like i wouldn't wait 2 years or longer to play Tlou 2
How do you know?It's not going to be 3yrs later dude. Nowhere near that long.
Yea, well, you might have to start saving up for a PC then. Seriously folks. this generation is going to be different as far as Sony exclusives ONLY coming out on the PS platform. I've been preaching this for nearly a year and I still don't see it discussed when people try to pinpoint the uniqueness of Sony's exclusive games. I feel like what I'm saying is going through one ear and out the other despite giving you folks accurate information. It's just not going to be like last gen anymore. The PC might not get all, but some of the ones they will be getting will matter, believe me. The signs are all over the place.
You opened the pandoras boxPorts won’t come so easy given how exotic the hardware is. Even the SSD requires a specific type for games to work.
Ports won’t come so easy given how exotic the hardware is. Even the SSD requires a specific type for games to work.
End to end bottlenecks though, inclusive of GPU and CPU.
Lies, all lies, Sony would never....The SSD is in no way going to be something impossible to get around on the PC especially when they are developing on the PC anyway from the start. I don't know how many times I have to keep saying this. You guys didn't believe ANY 1st party games was coming to PC even when I told you they were.. then you didn't believe the performance metric of the GPU that I told you guys and THAT ended up being correct too. Like why would I tell you guys shit that I don't know? There's no point to mislead you when I can just ask my sources.
Sony has big plans for the PC. Period. Is that a secret? NO. You already started seeing it last year but ignored the little games (i.e. Detroit, Beyond Two Souls, etc..)
Don't feel sorry for them, they'll be just fine, the other people though should be where worry is expressed. Xbox 360 flashbacks are coming back around.lmao man it’s funny how Xbox fanboys are beating their chest already. Next gen ain’t even started yet. That shows you how much built up anger they had since 2013 . I feel sorry for some of you❤
Rrod?Don't feel sorry for them, they'll be just fine, the other people though should be where worry is expressed. Xbox 360 flashbacks are coming back around.
Yes, the RRoD on a system which is clocked lower and at less risk of overheating.Rrod?
Yea, well, you might have to start saving up for a PC then. Seriously folks. this generation is going to be different as far as Sony exclusives ONLY coming out on the PS platform. I've been preaching this for nearly a year and I still don't see it discussed when people try to pinpoint the uniqueness of Sony's exclusive games. I feel like what I'm saying is going through one ear and out the other despite giving you folks accurate information. It's just not going to be like last gen anymore. The PC might not get all, but some of the ones they will be getting will matter, believe me. The signs are all over the place.
Rrod?
Tell us about how Sony has removed their power delivery and thermal bottlenecks in the PS5.
This SSD won't change the GPU, the CPU or the RAM.
You guys are becoming intolerably annoying.
There's probably more custom design in that system than Sony's.
If the ssd is as powerful as they claim, it might be possible but expect serious downgrades. As you'd basically have to drastically scale down world detail to allow it to stream from hdds.The PC might not get all, but some of the ones they will be getting will matter, believe me. The signs are all over the place.
The ps5 exclusive games are unlikely to run outside ps5 dev kits, if the ssd performance is as high as they claim.The SSD is in no way going to be something impossible to get around on the PC especially when they are developing on the PC anyway from the start.
Xbox 360 flashbacks are coming back around.
streaming is unplayable outside of turn based games.Its why the big companies are chasing streaming.
If the ssd is as powerful as they claim, it might be possible but expect serious downgrades. As you'd basically have to drastically scale down world detail to allow it to stream from hdds.
The PlayStation community in a frenzy.What does this even mean? Can you please elaborate?
The PlayStation community in a frenzy.
Most pcs have just 16GB of main memory and around 8GB of vram. The ps5 has 16GB of ram and the ssd can move up to 22GB/s. The data has to go from ssd to cpu ram first before it can be cached there. In theory you could be in a city and you open a door and there's 8+GB of new data in the room. Or you could have a game were you warp or move fast like sonic or flash or superman, and suddenly the entire 100+GB game area might be seconds away in any direction.There are a couple of things that people here don't understand or just flat out ignore the information:
1) Memory is king.. not I/O devices. The PC has 2 pools of memory to pull from. a) VRAM and b) DDR CPU RAM on the motherboard. You can easily cache a lot of assets in CPU memory instead of relying on the slow I/O (5.5GB/s) for streaming. The CPU RAM can be an in-between step before getting assets into VRAM. So no, I don't see scaling down anything. A high-end PC will have more bandwidth to take more assets to compute than any of the next-gen consoles.
There are ps5 games with blurry textures here and there, even high end aaa games. Why? I assume to avoid high loading times. In theory with the ssd not only can all textures be high resolution, but potentially they could have even higher levels of detail up close than would otherwise be practical as you can stream higher level of detail on the fly.2) Ultimately the GPU will become the bottleneck with every platform - not the SSD/HDD. You could move a crap ton of data into the GPU such that processing at the pixel level becomes a bottleneck. In other words, it does no good to try throwing highly detailed large datasets at the GPU when it's TFLOPS/memory limits can't handle it. Believe me the SSD is the slowest part of that pipeline 100%. You guys act like the SSD is what writes pixels to the screen and does all the shading, lighting and texturing.. it's not.
True you could up ram requirements. But for certain games ( a sonic a flash a superman, etc) it just wouldn't be possible without prohibitive amounts of ram. Even a gta like game if exclusive could use massive diverse assets that you could easily reach with a car or helicopter. Say the game city is 100+GB of different assets, suddenly you can travel in any direction at high speed and require all of that.The PC has enormous flexibility in that you can put any kind of hardware piece on the mb and make it way faster, much larger RAM pool, and much better bandwidth. The PC isn't a fixed platform like the consoles. It's extremely flexible and agnostic which is why it's the default platform of choice to create proof of concepts and develop pipelines.
Sony isn't going to make a game centered around just the PS5 if they have plans porting it to PC. As I said many times, CPU RAM can be used to offset a slow HDD for the PC. Upping the RAM requirements would be a practical solution for PC ports.
Most pcs have just 16GB of main memory and around 8GB of vram. The ps5 has 16GB of ram and the ssd can move up to 22GB/s. The data has to go from ssd to cpu ram first before it can be cached there. In theory you could be in a city and you open a door and there's 8+GB of new data in the room. Or you could have a game were you warp or move fast like sonic or flash or superman, and suddenly the entire 100+GB game area might be seconds away in any direction.
Sure you can match that, but for some scenarios you're basically going to need 100+GB installed in the pc.
There are ps5 games with blurry textures here and there, even high end aaa games. Why? I assume to avoid high loading times. In theory with the ssd not only can all textures be high resolution, but potentially they could have even higher levels of detail up close than would otherwise be practical as you can stream higher level of detail on the fly.
Currently the maximum level of detail is limited by what you can stream. On ps4 that's the hdd, and even ssd designed pc games appear no more than 5 times faster than an ssd.
True you could up ram requirements. But for certain games ( a sonic a flash a superman, etc) it just wouldn't be possible without prohibitive amounts of ram. Even a gta like game if exclusive could use massive diverse assets that you could easily reach with a car or helicopter. Say the game city is 100+GB of different assets, suddenly you can travel in any direction at high speed and require all of that.
SSD is the new cloud.
It's not just the power, Microsoft's messaging is fundamentally clear, their roadmap is clear, they really got their act together. Sony on the other hand while they haven't shit the bed or anything have really poor messaging right now, cryptic lack of information and plans, haven't really showed or talked about much.I think you’re forgetting MS have more to prove than PS do, Power doesn’t just equal win. Until Xbox can drop exclusives on the same level of Sony’s WWS then there’s nothing to worry for PS fans. The existing install base tells me Sony will have more sales at the end of the year.
I don’t know why fanboys seem to think power rules over sales? Because whoever sells more is basically ‘winning‘
The difference is that Sony still have billions of dollars to make before the end of this generation so there is no reason for them show all their cards now whereas MS can't wait for the next generation to start so blew their load far too early to try to take away all Sony's talking points. I don't think MS's strategy is working out too well so far, cos most people can see through MS's tactics, and yeah, Sony's messaging has been poor so far, but it's not likely to affect their popularity next gen whatsoever.It's not just the power, Microsoft's messaging is fundamentally clear, their roadmap is clear, they really got their act together. Sony on the other hand while they haven't shit the bed or anything have really poor messaging right now, cryptic lack of information and plans, haven't really showed or talked about much.
It just seems like this is a different Microsoft than 2013, and this is a different Sony than 2013.
The question is how limited are current games by the hdds? Are gpus being fully utilized? I've seen last gen textures in some areas of some big bugdet titles. That simply could be avoided probably with an ssd. I've also seen ridiculously sharp textures in areas of some games, suggesting these can be handled.I can't argue anymore about this.
I'll just say that a game can't move any faster than peak TFLOPS. Throwing data at your GPU will only net you max 10.2TFLOPS under a set of conditions. That's all it can deliver. The PC can deliver much much more (i.e. Ampere - 30xx cards) and XSX can deliver 12TFLOPS. Those are the facts.
Radeon RX 580 4GB Game FPS Benchmarks On Ultra
Radeon RX 580 4GB Can Run PC Game System Requirements
How well can the AMD Radeon RX 580 4GB GPU run PC game system requirements? Compare Radeon RX 580 4GB performance to game specswww.game-debate.com
It's not just the power, Microsoft's messaging is fundamentally clear, their roadmap is clear, they really got their act together. Sony on the other hand while they haven't shit the bed or anything have really poor messaging right now, cryptic lack of information and plans, haven't really showed or talked about much.
It just seems like this is a different Microsoft than 2013, and this is a different Sony than 2013.
TBiddy and DynamiteCop!
I'll gift you both one month of GAF Gold if you provide us actual evidence that Xbox's SSD is at the same level and class as the PS5's SSD in terms of levels of optimization, elimination of bottlenecks, perfomance, and sheer raw compression speeds.
A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later. Microsoft considers these aspects of the Velocity Architecture to be a genuine game-changer, adding a multiplier to how physical memory is utilised.
If true then it's likely not available either in RDNA2 nor nvidia's next gen architecture.Sampler Feedback Streaming, according to a Graphics Optimization R&D and Engine Architect @ Microsoft, isn't actually part of RDNA2 like many think. Sampler Feedback, though, is one of the pillars of DX12 Ultimate,
Only way would be if rdna2 cards weren't directx 12 ultimate compliant. But according to amd they are.When gamers purchase PC graphics hardware with the DX12 Ultimate logo or an Xbox Series X, they can do so with the confidence that their hardware is guaranteed to support ALL next generation graphics hardware features, including DirectX Raytracing, Variable Rate Shading, Mesh Shaders and Sampler Feedback. This mark of quality ensures stellar “future-proof” feature support for next generation games!
Announcing DirectX 12 Ultimate - DirectX Developer Blog
It is time for DirectX to evolve once again. From the team that has brought PC and Console gamers the latest in graphics innovation for nearly 25 years, we are beyond pleased to bring gamers DirectX 12 Ultimate, the culmination of the best graphics technology we’ve ever introduced in an...devblogs.microsoft.com
AMD confirms its next-gen graphics cards will fully support DirectX 12 Ultimate
AMD confirms its next-gen graphics cards will fully support DirectX 12 Ultimate
Viable real-time ray tracing in games will no longer be the exclusive domain of Nvidia.www.pcgamer.com
It's not a hardware feature, it's an aspect of the DirectX Ultimate API which the hardware is capable of using.If true then it's likely not available either in RDNA2 nor nvidia's next gen architecture.
That seems to conflict with the following statement straight from microsoft
Only way would be if rdna2 cards weren't directx 12 ultimate compliant. But according to amd they are.
Now does this mean ps5 has it? Maybe maybe not, perhaps it's part rdna2 but not full rdna2.
Sony has 13+ million views of that road to ps5 video on YouTube .... I would say they really don't have anything to worry about as long as they deliver on the games
yes, but the important part is the h/w implementation. it seems like it is not additional custom h/w but part of the rdna2 h/w.It's not a hardware feature, it's an aspect of the DirectX Ultimate API which the hardware is capable of using.
Not with the same level of finesse as the PS5 or else we'd be hearing it from Xbox already.
The PS5's SSD is in its own class, simple as that.
Do you know overclocking is one of the least efficient way to increase performance?End to end bottlenecks though, inclusive of GPU and CPU.
dude stop coping.
XSX will perform every bit as well...but even more so...due to extra power. just stop
Genius move. It's had the full impact it can have on ps4 at this stage. Launching on pc will show many non ps4 gamers what they're missing, will make Sony some easy money and will make even more want to play horizon 2 which will be ps5 only.Lies, all lies, Sony would never....
Oh...
No again, reading comprehension.
The quote in the OP isn't about the SSD, how many times do I have to state this?
The quote even gives an example of saving resources on the CPU.
Do you consider the CPU and SSD to be the same?
I didn't state 100x was the GPU either, it is a conglomerative number which is inclusive of all hardware it uses to display content on the screen, CPU, GPU, RAM everything.
Streaming refers to what displays on screen which is a task performed by the GPU.
You can state it all you want, that doesn't make it true. Cerny is talking about removing bottlenecks with regards to the SSD. Both with regards to loading and streaming. He's talking about how many resources it takes to copy files ie. and how they've addressed that.
All of which makes perfect sense, considering the speed that the SSD is running at. They really need some great hardware for that, which is what he's talking about. I'm not sure why you refuse to admit that.
Yes, of course the SSD and the CPU is the same. Jesus. Can we at least pretend that we're both adults here? They designed a custom controller to remove some of the workloads from the CPU. Workloads that happens - yes you've guessed it - when the SSD is working hard.
It all revolves around the SSD, no matter how much you try to deny it.
PS. You literally wrote, that the GPU handled the streaming (which, remember, was 100 times faster) part. Let me quote it for you again:
Either the GPU is 100 times faster or you've dug a hole that you're now trying to climb out of.
Downplaying a legitimate revolution in SSD technology is never a good look.