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Jason Schreier's industry sources: PS5 is superior in ways that Sony has not communicated yet

quest

Not Banned from OT
Paradigm shifts are often difficult to comprehend initially, this has always been the case historically speaking for all facets of life (the earth is not flat, not the center of the universe/solar system and other shifts in science theory etc.).

Try to at least watch the Cernysermon and begin to understand that PS5 boost does not work like you suggest.
It is deterministic, repeatable across all PS5s and based on power draw, not thermals. I.e. it is fully under the developers control.
Yes it does work like I said if a game pushes like hell it will eat past that power budget and down clock period it was said on stage. Sure developers can control it by limiting games yay variable clocks to hit 10tf. Yay running hot as the sun to hit 10tf. Because we know how well both Sony and Microsoft apply thermal paste and pads.
 

Tumle

Member
The only thing theoretical is the notion that a faster ssd will compensate or even surpass the XSX advantages in gpu,cpu,bandwidth in terms of real world results for graphics etc...
No the 12 TF is theoretical power calculated by the numbers of CU.. it’s all depending on if the data can be transferred to the cu’s fast enough, ergo bottlenecks.. I’m not saying that it’s not possible for the xsx to hit those 12 TF but we will have to wait and see when we have real world numbers:)
 

Goliathy

Banned
Other question:

If what Jason said is true then:

- why didn’t they tell us this during the SO-CALLED TECHNICAL DEEP DIVE?
- when are they going to tell us?

Yes, there are games coming out but then they shouldn’t even have talked about it at all. Doesn’t make any sense

What I’ve notice that there is A LOT of damage control going on.

AND A LOT OF rumors about ps5 were so damn ridiculous and absolutely false, like:

- PS5 has 13 tflops lol
- PS5 has FULL BC with support for ALL PlayStation games in existence.

what a load of bullshit!
 
Other question:

If what Jason said is true then:

- why didn’t they tell us this during the SO-CALLED TECHNICAL DEEP DIVE?
- when are they going to tell us?

Yes, there are games coming out but then they shouldn’t even have talked about it at all. Doesn’t make any sense

What I’ve notice that there is A LOT of damage control going on.

AND A LOT OF rumors about ps5 were so damn ridiculous and absolutely false, like:

- PS5 has 13 tflops lol
- PS5 has FULL BC with support for ALL PlayStation games in existence.

what a load of bullshit!
it seems you are upset/ agitated ? take it easy buddy these are just plastic game consoles .chill

we only play games on these. they are not our family relatives to get agitated because of fanboys from both sides
 
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SONY SUPPORTERS:
- Twitter Devs
- Jason Schreier [Schreier = German for "loud mouth"]
vs

MS SUPPORTERS:
- pure Data sheet
- Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD




Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD, spoke a bit about what the team created to help power Xbox Series X:


"Thanks to a focus on transformational design and generational performance uplift, Nussbaum said that, for developers, “the console ends up being a playground for technical innovation.


" Xbox Series X is the biggest generational leap of SOC [System on a Chip] and API design that we’ve done with Microsoft, and it’s really an honor for AMD to be a trusted Microsoft partner for this endeavor,” said Nussbaum.

“The Xbox Series X is going to be a beacon of technical innovation leadership for this console generation

and will propagate the innovation throughout the DirectX ecosystem this year and into next year.”


Im not native English speaking person,
can someone explain to me, in layman terms what:
"leadership for this console generation"
means... thx
 
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Three

Member
what else did they show then besides loading screens? traversing the city without loading screens is nothing new, and can also be achieved without ssd
Traversing a city is not new but doing it at that speed with that detail is.

Did anybody else show anything new? Mind showing me?

Why is it hard to grasp that the SSD performance can affect game design like player speed and transitions like being able to enter any building in an open world game. Why is it difficult to accept that it is advantagous to have high speed drives there?
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
No the 12 TF is theoretical power calculated by the numbers of CU.. it’s all depending on if the data can be transferred to the cu’s fast enough, ergo bottlenecks.. I’m not saying that it’s not possible for the xsx to hit those 12 TF but we will have to wait and see when we have real world numbers:)
Yeah, Jason briefly spoke on this as well. He said developers were saying PS5 might be faster at seeking data in some instances
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
SONY SUPPORTERS:
- Twitter Devs
- Jason Schreier [Schreier = German for "loud mouth"]
vs

MS SUPPORTERS:
- pure Data sheet
- Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD




Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD, spoke a bit about what the team created to help power Xbox Series X:


"Thanks to a focus on transformational design and generational performance uplift, Nussbaum said that, for developers, “the console ends up being a playground for technical innovation.


" Xbox Series X is the biggest generational leap of SOC [System on a Chip] and API design that we’ve done with Microsoft, and it’s really an honor for AMD to be a trusted Microsoft partner for this endeavor,” said Nussbaum.

“The Xbox Series X is going to be a beacon of technical innovation leadership for this console generation

and will propagate the innovation throughout the DirectX ecosystem this year and into next year.”


Im not native English speaking person,
can someone explain to me, in layman terms what:
"leadership for this console generation"
means... thx
I'll take Jason's information :)

"Developers are saying PS5 is the most exciting hardware in 20 years"

"Developers are saying PS5 is superior in a lot of ways"
 
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They made a deal with Microsoft to use their cloud solutions: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/16/18628090/microsoft-sony-cloud-gaming-ai-partnership
We should get more consumer oriented news in the months to come, the GDC presentation was a poor choice.
No they did not, they where in talks about using the Cloud tec, but after that statement it went verry quiet and is is till today. Nothing is signed theyr is no deal. If theyr was it would be all over the internet..
 
.
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) –
A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed,

>>>it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance." <<<


What in the RED PART you're not understanding?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. SSD in XSX is better than SSD in PS5.

Mind you that XSX decompression chip has a theoretical max of around 6GB/s, while PS5's has a theoretical max of 22GB/s.

For XBone fans it's best if they will just accept that XSX has the raw GPU power and memory bandwidth advantage, and PS5 has the SSD advantage by a really fair margin
 
Last edited:
SONY SUPPORTERS:
- Twitter Devs
- Jason Schreier [Schreier = German for "loud mouth"]
vs

MS SUPPORTERS:
- pure Data sheet
- Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD




Sebastien Nussbaum, Corporate Vice President & Senior Fellow, Semi-Custom Products and Technologies at AMD, spoke a bit about what the team created to help power Xbox Series X:


"Thanks to a focus on transformational design and generational performance uplift, Nussbaum said that, for developers, “the console ends up being a playground for technical innovation.


" Xbox Series X is the biggest generational leap of SOC [System on a Chip] and API design that we’ve done with Microsoft, and it’s really an honor for AMD to be a trusted Microsoft partner for this endeavor,” said Nussbaum.

“The Xbox Series X is going to be a beacon of technical innovation leadership for this console generation

and will propagate the innovation throughout the DirectX ecosystem this year and into next year.”


Im not native English speaking person,
can someone explain to me, in layman terms what:
"leadership for this console generation"
means... thx

lol Look at this nonsense. So every dev on Twitter that gives positive comments about PS5 is a Sony supporter? Even people who don’t even work for Sony? But the VP for AMD who is obviously propping up their own technology is “supporting” the Xbox? Like does anyone else see how incredibly asinine this is? Congratulations, I just woke up this morning, but I’m pretty sure this is one of the dumbest posts I’ll read all day.
 

SleepDoctor

Banned
People who know nothing about what they're talking about need to seriously stop spouting nonsense.


Everyone has graduated with a phd in console architecture and game development after Cerny's presentation. Where you been? Lol

These guys haven't slept since Wednesday, fighting the good fight lol.

I just want to see some games already but karma has definitely been served cold here after all the trolling. Its like they're insecurities are making them try to justify buying a ps5. Hold that "L".

Ps4 reveal was million times different cuz they knew they had the better console. Now we got an hour presentation about ssd and audio.

Does it mean its a bad console? Nope but fanboys gonna fanboy. Ps4 has done amazing things with 1.84 tf.
 

Deto

Banned
Sony has yet to publish a chart on the variable clocks only generic terms so you are using best case for Sony not under heavy load especially when games push hardware 5 years from now.

"expect any downclocking to be pretty minor "
 
lol Look at this nonsense. So every dev on Twitter that gives positive comments about PS5 is a Sony supporter? Even people who don’t even work for Sony? But the VP for AMD who is obviously propping up their own technology is “supporting” the Xbox? Like does anyone else see how incredibly asinine this is? Congratulations, I just woke up this morning, but I’m pretty sure this is one of the dumbest posts I’ll read all day.

Yep, bunch of horseshit. Really. Read this one, pretty good insight :

I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg



Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.

 

Shin

Banned
No they did not, they where in talks about using the Cloud tec, but after that statement it went verry quiet and is is till today. Nothing is signed theyr is no deal. If theyr was it would be all over the internet..
I guess Sony and Microsoft are liars then, read the content of the press release before responding.

 

Deto

Banned
I guess Sony and Microsoft are liars then, read the content of the press release before responding.


"Under the memorandum of understanding signed by the parties"
 

sinnergy

Member
Yeah, double-rate FP16 is so useless that AMD has had it in all architectures from Vega onwards. So fuckig useless that Nvidia adopted double-rate FP16 in Turing.
As I have stated elsewhere, full single-precision (FP32) compute is not all needed for all graphical/gaming workloads. In those instances you can more than get away with using half-precision (FP16). In microarchitectures with double-rate FP16, you can perform 2 FP16 operations for ever 1 FP32 operation. Double the throughput. Which means if you code smart, you can extract a reasonable performance increase. Its not necessarily going to be exactly double the performance. But Cerny wasn't lying when he said the PS4 Pro can do 8.4TF of FP16. Its the truth.

Also, given that quite a lot of XB1X titles (if not the majority) run at 1440p which is subsequently upscaled to 4K, I'd say he was probably right in his assessment that you need about 8TF to run at 4K native, without some penalties in image quality/graphical fidelity.
So Series X is 50 TF fp16! Amazing !

Or 24 TF fp 16, without RT. Outstanding
 

TBiddy

Member
hehehehe NO


what matters is bandwitch/CUs


PS5: 448/36 = 12,44GB/s for each CU

SX:

best case 560/52 = 10,77GB/s
worst case 336/52 = 6,46GB/s

Next up, in the PS6 / New Xbox:

1 CU running at 9.000 GB/s. Much better than current gen.
 
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Shin

Banned
"Under the memorandum of understanding signed by the parties"
Bolded for importance.

TOKYO and REDMOND, Wash. — May 16, 2019 — Sony Corporation (Sony) and Microsoft Corp. (Microsoft) announced on Thursday that the two companies will partner on new innovations to enhance customer experiences in their direct-to-consumer entertainment platforms and AI solutions.

Under the memorandum of understanding signed by the parties, the two companies will explore joint development of future cloud solutions in Microsoft Azure to support their respective game and content-streaming services. In addition, the two companies will explore the use of current Microsoft Azure datacenter-based solutions for Sony's game and content streaming services. By working together, the companies aim to deliver more enhanced entertainment experiences for their worldwide customers. These efforts will also include building better development platforms for the content creator community.

As part of the memorandum of understanding, Sony and Microsoft will also explore collaboration in the areas of semiconductors and AI. For semiconductors, this includes potential joint development of new intelligent image sensor solutions. By integrating Sony's cutting-edge image sensors with Microsoft's Azure AI technology in a hybrid manner across cloud and edge, as well as solutions that leverage Sony's semiconductors and Microsoft cloud technology, the companies aim to provide enhanced capabilities for enterprise customers. In terms of AI, the parties will explore incorporation of Microsoft's advanced AI platform and tools in Sony consumer products, to provide highly intuitive and user-friendly AI experiences.

"Sony is a creative entertainment company with a solid foundation of technology. We collaborate closely with a multitude of content creators that capture the imagination of people around the world, and through our cutting-edge technology, provide the tools to bring their dreams and vision to reality," said Kenichiro Yoshida, president and CEO, Sony. "PlayStation® itself came about through the integration of creativity and technology. Our mission is to seamlessly evolve this platform as one that continues to deliver the best and most immersive entertainment experiences, together with a cloud environment that ensures the best possible experience, anytime, anywhere. For many years, Microsoft has been a key business partner for us, though of course the two companies have also been competing in some areas. I believe that our joint development of future cloud solutions will contribute greatly to the advancement of interactive content. Additionally, I hope that in the areas of semiconductors and AI, leveraging each company's cutting-edge technology in a mutually complementary way will lead to the creation of new value for society."

"Sony has always been a leader in both entertainment and technology, and the collaboration we announced today builds on this history of innovation," said Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft. "Our partnership brings the power of Azure and Azure AI to Sony to deliver new gaming and entertainment experiences for customers."
 
I'll take Jason's information :)

"Developers are saying PS5 is the most exciting hardware in 20 years"

"Developers are saying PS5 is superior in a lot of ways"

ok... schreier know better then AMD....


"Developers are saying PS5 is the most exciting hardware in 20 years"

they aren't lie..... this SSD is a exciting pice of hardware... but what about the console?
See they said: "exciting hardware"... your misguided brain read: "exciting console"

but in the real world that not the same... 😊😎
 
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yurinka

Member
If what Jason said is true then:

- why didn’t they tell us this during the SO-CALLED TECHNICAL DEEP DIVE?
- when are they going to tell us?
This was a tech talk for devs about the console's architecture, to explain devs new stuff the console can do.

Devs have NDA to avoid them talking about things related to consoles or games that still have not been officially revealed.

I think once Sony decides to make the console reveal showing some of its first games, the form factor, additional unnanounced specs and details and it's user experience (OS features, how they will address things like BC or game streaming in PS5, etc) then there will be some devs talking there, and many more will be able to comment about certain stuff.

Right now for devs it's forbidden to talk about the console and about its games. So they only can maybe say something really vague, and closely related to the specific already announced stuff.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Just in time for the mid gen refresh console, In which MS will have an SSD triple as fast.

The SSD on the PS5 sounds more and more like the Cell by the day.
They're still limited with what they can do since the Xbox Series X will be capped with speeds.
 
So Series X is 50 TF fp16! Amazing !
No.
12 TF of general purpose FP32 Compute. The RT performance is equivalent to 13TF of calculations, but it is misleading to add it to the shader compute, because its not usable for anything except RT.

Or 24 TF fp 16, without RT. Outstanding

Yes, the Series X does indeed have 24TF of FP16. And the PS5 has 20.6TF FP16. What's wrong with that? Its a useful feature.
 

V4skunk

Banned
No the 12 TF is theoretical power calculated by the numbers of CU.. it’s all depending on if the data can be transferred to the cu’s fast enough, ergo bottlenecks.. I’m not saying that it’s not possible for the xsx to hit those 12 TF but we will have to wait and see when we have real world numbers:)
So what is og ps4 and xbone real world numbers?
 
Wait a mo ...

I thought the XSX was 12.1TF sustained? People now seem to be suggesting that's the theoretical peak under ideal conditions (throughput, etc.)?

Edit: I should clarify that I mean 12.1TF is the best possible but not something people should expect to see most of the time.
 
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lynux3

Member
This was BEFORE the reveal. Would be interesting to see how the interest has changed. Are people still that interested or more interested in Xbox series x now?

Would be interested how the different reveals might have changed the perception and interest.
Developers have known about these new consoles for a while. How can you be interested in something you have no clue about? That makes zero sense.
 

TBiddy

Member
Wait a mo ...

I thought the XSX was 12.1TF sustained? People now seem to be suggesting that's the theoretical peak under ideal conditions (throughput, etc.)?

Edit: I should clarify that I mean 12.1TF is the best possible but not something people should expect to see most of the time.

It is.
 

Goliathy

Banned
Wait a mo ...

I thought the XSX was 12.1TF sustained? People now seem to be suggesting that's the theoretical peak under ideal conditions (throughput, etc.)?

Edit: I should clarify that I mean 12.1TF is the best possible but not something people should expect to see most of the time.


Microsoft is promising a 4x improvement in both single-core and overall throughput over Xbox One X - and CPU speeds are impressive, with a peak 3.8GHz frequency. This is when SMT - or hyper-threading - is disabled.
Curiously, developers can choose to run with eight physical cores at the higher clock, or all cores and threads can be enabled with a lower 3.6GHz frequency. Those frequencies are completely locked and won't adjust according to load or thermal conditions - a point Microsoft emphasised several times during our visit.

But up until now at least, the focus has been on the GPU, where Microsoft has delivered 12 teraflops of compute performance via 3328 shaders allocated to 52 compute units (from 56 in total on silicon, four disabled to increase production yield) running at a sustained, locked 1825MHz. Once again, Microsoft stresses the point that frequencies are consistent on all machines, in all environments. There are no boost clocks with Xbox Series X.

This was even before the Reavel of the PS5.

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs


Also, I would like to know, who suggested that there is a theoretical peak under ideal conditions?
 
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Goliathy

Banned
How does that change anything that I just said in regards to the GDC poll?

I didn't reply to you and I didn't quote lol. Anyway:

Do you really think that Sony just sends out devkits before the reveal to everyone? GDC said:
"With a sample size of nearly 4,000 game industry professionals" What is that supposed to mean? Could be anyone. Not game developers.
Who says that all had devkits?
 

lynux3

Member
I didn't reply to you and I didn't quote lol. Anyway:

Do you really think that Sony just sends out devkits before the reveal to everyone? GDC said:
"With a sample size of nearly 4,000 game industry professionals" What is that supposed to mean? Could be anyone. Not game developers.
Who says that all had devkits?
Well, you did, but it must have been by accident. *shrug*

Yes, I think this for sure because games for next generation consoles require their own development cycle. It's not like they just showed them off this month and shipped out devkits in hopes that third parties and first parties could ship their games by launch time.
 
No the 12 TF is theoretical power calculated by the numbers of CU.. it’s all depending on if the data can be transferred to the cu’s fast enough, ergo bottlenecks.. I’m not saying that it’s not possible for the xsx to hit those 12 TF but we will have to wait and see when we have real world numbers:)
Simple question. Which platform has the more beefiery specs? XSX wins in gpu,cpu, and bandwidth. No? XSX clocks are a lock at all times.No? PS5 uses variable clocks. No?

This notion that a ssd can compensate for the PS5s weaker gpu,cpu,bandwidth is theoretical at this point. XSX having the more powerful specs is not theoretical. It's a mathematical fact ::messenger_grinning:
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Sony now just need games to shows what devs can archive.
but I don’t think they will do that before June.
 
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