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It seems to me that Sony/Cerny chose higher quality accessories/console design over a higher Teraflops count. (A Risky Move)

I'm in the process of picking out parts to build myself a new PC. I had no idea that I should just pick the fastest SSD I can find, as that's now the most important component for a games machine and weaker CPUs and GPUs don't matter as long as you can score the highest on CrystalDiskMark.

WTF even is this thread? lol. If you're trolling/messing around, fair enough.

I think the nvidia 3000 series releases this year so it is good to wait.

For unknown reasons on pc, even pcie4.0 nvme drives are barely faster than hdds when it comes to gaming. AT 2-5x speed up compared to an hdd. The ps5 is said to be 100x faster than an hdd. Could it be the fabled bottlenecks?
If PS5 requires similar or better speeds than its PS5 SSD, the only replacement to get is a slower, similar speed or faster SSD than PS5 comes with stock. Granted it will be more expensive than a standard SSD, but PS5 DOES NOT HAVE THE FASTEST SSD, otherwise, it would use proprietary solutions. Thought this was a bit obvious by now, but OP and others seem to ignore simple FACTS.
In the other thread people said the ps5 ssd is 500MB/s faster than the fastest pc ssd which is sabrent ssd and aorus ssd at 5.0GB/s. The ps5 ssd is 5.5GB/s


But the ps5 ssd is without bottlenecks. An nvme ssd likely takes 1 minute to load star citizen a game designed for ssd, while it would likely take seconds on the ps5.
 
I think the nvidia 3000 series releases this year so it is good to wait.

For unknown reasons on pc, even pcie4.0 nvme drives are barely faster than hdds when it comes to gaming. AT 2-5x speed up compared to an hdd. The ps5 is said to be 100x faster than an hdd. Could it be the fabled bottlenecks?

In the other thread people said the ps5 ssd is 500MB/s faster than the fastest pc ssd which is sabrent ssd and aorus ssd at 5.0GB/s. The ps5 ssd is 5.5GB/s


But the ps5 ssd is without bottlenecks. An nvme ssd likely takes 1 minute to load star citizen a game designed for ssd, while it would likely take seconds on the ps5.
That is NOT the fastest SSD on PC, there was an SSD from 2019 with over 9gbps sequential read/write and mixed workloads. Seagate even came out with 6.7gbps in 2016. I'm not sure why you think consoles will have something faster than whats been available on PC, which was brought up in previous threads we BOTH participated in, But whatever floats your agenda on here.... The fact still remains though.

EYrALWGQsy9ka2XjbzNyfP-650-80.jpg
 
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Neo_game

Member
So you're telling me that by overclocking my rtx 2080 it is now more efficient than a 2080ti? Sorry, but that's just dumb. It will make it run hotter and more unstable though.

I am sure they tested it and came to that conclusion. There is advantage of running at faster speed and if it was not possible they would not risk it. According to Cerny PS5 will also run quieter than the Pro in spite of higher clockspeed.
 
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Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
They already said they're not doing series X exclusives for 2 years into it's lifecycle.... just the same stuff they're doing on Xbox One.
Are you guy just being willfully dense when you say this shit? Jfc.

Series X games will look next gen. They'll simply scale to the Xbox family of devices and PC as necessary. They arent like Sony in this regard.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Cool story bro. On a contrary, your threads led me to believe that when mods unbanned you, huge mistakes were made... Troll thread reported, this isn't funny anymore.
 
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Are you guy just being willfully dense when you say this shit? Jfc.

Series X games will look next gen. They'll simply scale to the Xbox family of devices and PC as necessary. They arent like Sony in this regard.
Scaling down their games is another way of saying watering down those games so they can play on previous consoles.

Which means the first two years of exclusives will not have the same impact as a PS5 game in terms of it playing and feeling like its a genuine next-gen title.
 
That is NOT the fastest SSD on PC, there was an SSD from 2019 with over 9gbps sequential read/write and mixed workloads. Seagate even came out with 6.7gbps in 2016. I'm not sure why you think consoles will have something faster than whats been available on PC, which was brought up in previous threads we BOTH participated in, But whatever floats your agenda on here.... The fact still remains though.

EYrALWGQsy9ka2XjbzNyfP-650-80.jpg
is that sold anywhere or is it just a prototype?

. Micron says the X100 will be in limited sampling to select customers sometime this quarter, so it's not going to be shaking up the storage market much in the immediate future but it is far enough past the vaporware stage that Micron should be able to deliver the rest of the specs soon—including the range of available capacities. Since Micron hasn't said anything about a second generation of 3D XPoint memory being ready, the density and costs of the X100 shouldn't be drastically different from Intel's Optane offerings.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15029/micron-finally-announces-a-3d-xpoint-product-micron-x100

That was in october, it seems it hasn't released to consumers yet.

edit: as for 2016, pcie4.0 wasn't even available back then, iirc. But it's enterprise and 16x pcie 3.0 so it's conceivable. Whatever the case the specific model is not available in amazon or newegg. You might be able to get it used as it is likely discontinued. I think I saw just one or two on ebay, so it might as well not be available, as one or two people does not much make.
 
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Clarissa

Banned
Your friend is chasing for dat xclout lol

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. So he's hoping that Microsoft beats the shit out of Sony. He bashes Sony on an everyday basis. 70% of his posts is glorifying Nintendo. 25% is bashing Sony. 5% of his posts, we talk about food and entertainment.
He really wants Nintendo and MS to team up and kill Sony.
 
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I am sure they tested it and came to that conclusion. There is advantage of running at faster speed and if it was not possible they would not risk it. According to Cerny PS5 will also run quieter than the Pro in spite of higher clockspeed.
Well if Cerny said it, it must be true. I can guarantee you that my overclocked 2080 still underperforms compared to the Ti, so... And being quieter than the Pro isn't much of an achievement. A Train is quieter than my Pro.
 
The enemy of my enemy if my friend. So he's hoping that Microsoft beats the shit out of Sony. He bashes Sony on an everyday basis. 70% of his posts is glorifying Nintendo. 25% is bashing Sony. 5% of his posts, we talk about food and entertainment.
He really wants Nintendo and MS to team up and kill Sony.
Tell him I'm sending my best men to his house right now.
 
The enemy of my enemy if my friend. So he's hoping that Microsoft beats the shit out of Sony. He bashes Sony on an everyday basis. 70% of his posts is glorifying Nintendo. 25% is bashing Sony. 5% of his posts, we talk about food and entertainment.
He really wants Nintendo and MS to team up and kill Sony.
He's gonna be hoping for a long long time. I might not agree with some design decisions I've seen so far for the PS5 but MS isn't beating the shit out of Sony, although it won't be as bad as this gen. This gen was 2:1, next gen I'm expecting 1.75:1.
 
is that sold anywhere or is it just a prototype?



That was in october, it seems it hasn't released to consumers yet.
Seagate announced an enterprise 10gbps model, and a 6.7gbps model. This was in 2016. The Micron one is harder to get your hands on, but much easier than getting a ps5 right now. These are proven drives with actual sustained performance. We don't know if next get consoles are continuous, and it seems unlikely, 5.5gbps looks good on paper, but I doubt it can do this for more than a short burst, unlike the drives I have mentioned. We will see later on this year, or early next year how consoles perform. But as far as PS5 having the fastest ssd, that is completely not true.
 
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Cerny's word is more authoritative and valid than some random PC on the internet.
Is it? PR is part of his job. This claim only goes against every graphics card performance test out there. Pick any reputable hardware site and compare them.

Also, you did a great job avoiding the posts that contradicted your train of thought with this whole thread. Instead of answering the questions that really challenged your claims you focused on the rumble of the controllers.

Gonna be a long generation.
 
Is it? PR is part of his job. This claim only goes against every graphics card performance test out there. Pick any reputable hardware site and compare them.

Also, you did a great job avoiding the posts that contradicted your train of thought with this whole thread. Instead of answering the questions that really challenged your claims you focused on the rumble of the controllers.

Gonna be a long generation.
Gonna be a long generation full of delusional armchair analysts who think they understand console system architecture better than Mark Cerny indeed.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Hear me out.

Ever since the reveal of the luxurious looking DualSense controller and the state-of-the-art SSD, I began to realize Sony and Cerny's approach to focus their budget on other components instead of putting every egg into the basket that is the GPU.

While 10.2 Teraflops is a respectable number to have on any console, the fact that Sony decided to opt out of the archaic Power Battle led me to believe that the PlayStation 5 will have the following:
  • A more lavish and expensive cooling system, according to Bloomberg back in early 2020.
  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A state-of-the-art SSD with a world record speed of 9GB/s and an SSD meticulously designed for ease of development.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • A controller with state-of-the-art haptic feedback and adaptive trigger systems.
  • A more powerful built-in PSU to help mitigate cooling issues further.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
  • A state-of-the-art Audio Engine that rivals the cremè of the crop in the Audio Industry.
So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
I love these marketing phrases. "Lavish" "Luxurious" "state of the art" "Sleek"...umm..."State of the art" again. I'm starting to believe the PS5 is going to have liquid cooling with diamonds in the juice, and a see through case that projects holograms of Aloy eating strawberries of some mechanical brontosaurus' butt. That actually would be pretty cool. And Aloy is kinda thicc...i mean, under the deerskin and sheet metal...I bet she's got it goin on.
SecretCalculatingDalmatian-size_restricted.gif

Oh right, the topic...I think the controller was absolutely necessary and probably inevitable. WE don't know what the console looks like yet, but it has to be at least as sexy as the controller. It wouldn't make sense not to. I guess it depends on the goal. If it's marketing, then yes I think that style goes a long way in teasing people to buy your console. Its why Iphones sell so much. It's kind of a status symbol. I hate apple everything. Function matters more to me than style, but that doesn't mean a sexy ass PS5 is gonna sell any less. Quite the contrary, I think.
 
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FranXico

Member
I would just like to share here an example of the difference between modern haptic feedback and traditional rumble. Mind you, that video was recorded 5 years ago and is already referring to an old device.



Haptic feedback is not just the rumble that console controllers use nowadays (yes, including the Switch HD rumble - which Nintendo never even marketed as haptics), nor just the adaptive triggers - which the DS is indeed copying from the X1 controller.

Haptic feedback such as the one provided by the Steam controller (which is what I believe Sony copied) can provide a wide range of subtle vibrations.
 
Seagate announced an enterprise 10gbps model, and a 6.7gbps model. This was in 2016. The Micron one is harder to get your hands on, but much easier than getting a ps5 right now. These are proven drives with actual sustained performance. We don't know if next get consoles are continuous, and it seems unlikely, 5.5gbps looks good on paper, but I doubt it can do this for more than a short burst, unlike the drives I have mentioned. We will see later on this year, or early next year how consoles perform. But as far as PS5 having the fastest ssd, that is completely not true.
Cerny seemed to imply it is continuous. Aside from a future ssd and a discontinued enterprise drive there isn't a faster consumer drive.

In any case we've seen the nvme pcie4.0 drives with minute+ load times on games designed for ssd. That suggests the bottlenecks are there, and they are just a few times faster than an hdd.

Even ramdisk has been shown to be just a few times faster than an hdd, when it comes to gaming. Probably the bottlenecks again.

The ps5 is without bottlenecks. It is 100x as fast as an hdd.
 

yurinka

Member
No they just aimed at $399 while MS aimed at $499
Nah, they just aimed at $99.

It's barely a Atari 2600: It only has Zen 2, DLNA2, 16GB of DDR6, the fastest SSD ever, and an improved pad that adds haptic feedback, an array of mics, adaptative trigger, an innovative boost/dynamic frequency/ I/O system/cooling system etc. All these materials should cost $5 only.

I'm still expecting the PS5 to be a little cheaper, if its the same price as the XSEX ouch.
No, its materials will cost the same or even more. It has the same family of CPU/GPU/memory. Its GPU may be a little cheaper instead has a more expensive SSD and pad. PS5 may even be more expensive than Series X. I highly doubt they will sell PS5 at $499 or cheaper.
 
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Dontero

Banned
PS5 will have 600,000 and Xbox SeX will have 620,000. PS5 will load its triangles in half the time as the Xbox's triangles.

Both will load stuff in pretty much the same speed. Those 8GB/5GB speeds are sequential read. Everyone on PC knows sequential read speeds are useless for gaming. They are only important if you move few big files from one hard drive to other.

What is important for gaming is random read.
And those didn't change much since first SSDs were introduced.

This is why when i changed my old SSD to one of latest NVME SSDs my loading times for games and windows didn't improve much. Because random read of small files was still at about 50-100mb/s second much like my old SSD.

One thing is clear if competition was to copy 8k video from one nvme drive to other nvme drive that competition would be won by Sony. But only in this scenario.

I mean literally Sony says they will allow normal PCIE 4 nvmes to be used in PS5. They will have some standards so that shitty pcie4 nvme drives won't be approved but i don't expect to see almost any difference in games vs standard normal pcie nvme ssd.
 
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Both will load stuff in pretty much the same speed. Those 8GB/5GB speeds are sequential read. Everyone on PC knows sequential read speeds are useless for gaming. They are only important if you move few big files from one hard drive to other.

What is important for gaming is random read.
And those didn't change much since first SSDs were introduced.

This is why when i changed my old SSD to one of latest NVME SSDs my loading times for games and windows didn't improve much. Because random read of small files was still at about 50-100mb/s second much like my old SSD.

One thing is clear if competition was to copy 8k video from one nvme drive to other nvme drive that competition would be won by Sony. But only in this scenario.

I mean literally Sony says they will allow normal PCIE 4 nvmes to be used in PS5.
You people are going to eat crows come this holiday season when Digital Foundry will prove to the world that Cerny's GDC panel was all factual.
 
Cerny seemed to imply it is continuous. Aside from a future ssd and a discontinued enterprise drive there isn't a faster consumer drive.

In any case we've seen the nvme pcie4.0 drives with minute+ load times on games designed for ssd. That suggests the bottlenecks are there, and they are just a few times faster than an hdd.

Even ramdisk has been shown to be just a few times faster than an hdd, when it comes to gaming. Probably the bottlenecks again.

The ps5 is without bottlenecks. It is 100x as fast as an hdd.
Any proof of this? Not PR proof, but actual proof, like read/write performance speeds? Numerical data? Or is this the same thing as current gen consoles running native 4K@60fps PR crap? I go by what is on paper, and so far no one has brought anything to the table. Even Sony showed off a very basic, simple demo with barely anything going on screen, except going down a street and loading a few hundred megabytes. Nothing we haven't seen before. Especially as it was a current get game, not next gen.

Let's even take for instance that this SSD is hypothetically faster than anything out there. Would you rather a little shorter loading times, or better resolution, textures, raytracing, graphical effects, framerate, etc? I'll definitely take the latter, and have marginally slower loading times. Fidelity in all aspects is so much better than a second or so shaved off from loading times. I guess there are bragging rights to loading times now? Give me better graphics all day long.
 
I would just like to share here an example of the difference between modern haptic feedback and traditional rumble. Mind you, that video was recorded 5 years ago and is already referring to an old device.



Haptic feedback is not just the rumble that console controllers use nowadays (yes, including the Switch HD rumble - which Nintendo never even marketed as haptics), nor just the adaptive triggers - which the DS is indeed copying from the X1 controller.

Haptic feedback such as the one provided by the Steam controller (which is what I believe Sony copied) can provide a wide range of subtle vibrations.

Sosokrates Sosokrates was lying through his teeth then. What a shame, even I fell for it.
 
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Any proof of this? Not PR proof, but actual proof, like read/write performance speeds? Numerical data? Or is this the same thing as current gen consoles running native 4K@60fps PR crap? I go by what is on paper, and so far no one has brought anything to the table. Even Sony showed off a very basic, simple demo with barely anything going on screen, except going down a street and loading a few hundred megabytes. Nothing we haven't seen before. Especially as it was a current get game, not next gen.

Let's even take for instance that this SSD is hypothetically faster than anything out there. Would you rather a little shorter loading times, or better resolution, textures, raytracing, graphical effects, framerate, etc? I'll definitely take the latter, and have marginally slower loading times. Fidelity in all aspects is so much better than a second or so shaved off from loading times. I guess there are bragging rights to loading times now? Give me better graphics all day long.
Excuse me, but what the fuck is PR Proof?

You do know anyone can say that about Xbox Series X as well, right?

Go wipe your ass a bit more before coming here with these bullshit specious arguments.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
This isn't 2006 anymore.
The Xbox one consoles quality of materials and more importantly Xbox one S version of a controller also seem of higher quality to me than PS4 even though I have PS4 slim and love it and the controller much more than what ds3.
As for the new stuff, we will need to see. Coming from 5200rpm hdd... 3 or 5 gbps (so nvme x3 or x4) will make absolutely no difference. It will be all blazing fast compared to 5200rpm
 
The Xbox one consoles quality of materials and more importantly Xbox one S version of a controller also seem of higher quality to me than PS4 even though I have PS4 slim and love it and the controller much more than what ds3.
As for the new stuff, we will need to see. Coming from 5200rpm hdd... 3 or 5 gbps (so nvme x3 or x4) will make absolutely no difference. It will be all blazing fast compared to 5200rpm
Can't deny the build quality for DS4 is, Cerny forgive me, not adequate enough to sustain its full life potential for the entire generation.
 

Bankai

Member
I don’t think it’s a risky move at all, UNLESS the ps5 is priced higher than Xbox series X.

Their goal is clear to me: more immersion. I think a more versatile joypad, a focus on immersive 3D audio and superfast streaming/ loadingtimes all help to create a more immersive experience in games.

More power is always a good thing! But it’s only part of the equation to be able to create more immersion.
I experience It every time I play a PSVR game: sure it might not be the sharpest image, but it’s the experience that counts in the end.
 

Dr.D00p

Gold Member
Sony didn't choose to have the weaker console, they just underestimated Microsofts willingness to throw money at AMD for a 12Tflop APU...
 

Zannegan

Member
I would just like to share here an example of the difference between modern haptic feedback and traditional rumble. Mind you, that video was recorded 5 years ago and is already referring to an old device.



Haptic feedback is not just the rumble that console controllers use nowadays (yes, including the Switch HD rumble - which Nintendo never even marketed as haptics), nor just the adaptive triggers - which the DS is indeed copying from the X1 controller.

Haptic feedback such as the one provided by the Steam controller (which is what I believe Sony copied) can provide a wide range of subtle vibrations.

Technically, haptic feedback just means some kind of stimulation that emulates a sense of touch or feeling, so even the old rumble actuators are providing haptic feedback.

The Switch and the Steam controller are both using linear actuators, which can vibrate and stop much more quickly and at much higher frequencies, to the point that both can actually act as speakers. The difference is that the Steam controller's vibration is being mostly directed to the thumbpads. It is the same tech though.

The "HD Rumble" being able to react so much more quickly/accurately on the Switch is also why lockpicking is broken *in Skyrim. On the old rumble actuators you woukd have gotten a nudge when you got the stick at the correct angle if you were going slowly enough. On the Switch, you can open just about any chest without putting points in because you get a quick click exactly where the sticking point is.

The simulation of friction on the Steam pad doesn't really work out the way he describes it in my experience. It's more often used to help you track the movement of your thumb across the pad, and it feels like... popping micro bubble-wrap, or maybe wiping shaving cream off if a hard surface. You feel a series of pops, like tiny bubbles, but I've never felt it vibrate fast enough to make the pad feel more or less slippery.

I have no doubt that Sony will also be using linear actuators/HD rumble like the Switch and the Steam controller. It sounds like they may even be directing it at the sticks somehow, which would be closer to the Steam controller's implementation and could create some interesting effects.

The question is, are they also using ANOTHER form of haptic feedback to give additional sensations not possible with linear actuators alone. Some rumors have described actual resistance being added to the triggers (and possibly the sticks) to simulate pull. This would be an all-new form of haptic feedback, similar to something described in a Nintendo patent, but never used in any controller that I've seen.

If it is just linear actuators we're talking about in the PS5 (though likely more/more powerful ones) then I'll be pretty disappointed after hearing all this talk about feeling the tension of the bow string. Having Steam controller-like creaking when you pull the trigger to draw the string would be a nice effect, but not the revolution I was hoping for.

*Edited the bit about lockpicking for clarity.
 
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Excuse me, but what the fuck is PR Proof?

You do know anyone can say that about Xbox Series X as well, right?

Go wipe your ass a bit more before coming here with these bullshit specious arguments.
You do realize, I don't take either consoles side right lol? I don't ride Sony's nuts like you do, or make pointless threads over and over to defend Sony. Not sure why you even mention Xbox, as if I would get triggered or defensive by that either lol. I honestly don't care about either company. I like technology, but not when people put a spin on things, and hype things up with literally NO proof. This thread reads like an Apple product release statement, full of nonsensical phrases and "magical" keywords, repeated over and over.

And PR proof, as in using PR words as in proof of said statements. It's quite obvious as to what I meant. And its also disingenuous to reply with absolutely no argument or rebuttal to my statements, while calling them "bullshit", yet fall flat on your ass with nothing to backup. But hey, maybe you will have something smart to say this time around? Maybe you could refute my post you just quoted me on. Maybe with something factual and relevant to your own topic? Ironic huh? lol
 
You do realize, I don't take either consoles side right lol? I don't ride Sony's nuts like you do, or make pointless threads over and over to defend Sony. Not sure why you even mention Xbox, as if I would get triggered or defensive by that either lol. I honestly don't care about either company. I like technology, but not when people put a spin on things, and hype things up with literally NO proof. This thread reads like an Apple product release statement, full of nonsensical phrases and "magical" keywords, repeated over and over.

And PR proof, as in using PR words as in proof of said statements. It's quite obvious as to what I meant. And its also disingenuous to reply with absolutely no argument or rebuttal to my statements, while calling them "bullshit", yet fall flat on your ass with nothing to backup. But hey, maybe you will have something smart to say this time around? Maybe you could refute my post you just quoted me on. Maybe with something factual and relevant to your own topic? Ironic huh? lol
Calm down.
 
Sony believe in distinct generation and innovation, microsoft want to blur the line between generations and force their way into winning with higher specs, but zero innovation in gameplay elements.

With the 0 second load times and dualsense controller, sony will win this generation by a larger margin than this generation.

With its pc like design, microsoft is pandering to the xbox warriors which, only make up 1% of gamers in this day and age. The introduction of lockhart will be end game for microsoft in the console space and rightly so. Time for sony to rule and let nintendo bring out a proper home console, something they haven’t done since the gamecube.
 

Dontero

Banned
You people are going to eat crows come this holiday season when Digital Foundry will prove to the world that Cerny's GDC panel was all factual.

But Cerny panel was factual. No one doubts it.
Much like every SSD maker claim about 2GB/s is factual. I can right now test my NVME drive and in test it will say 2GB/s in sequential read. It is a fact.

But facts have nothing to do with real life. And my NVME drive doesn't get to 2GB/s when it loads Windows because to load windows you have to load 1000s small files instead of one big file.


Hell before press conference i even predicted what Cerny will talk about.

"PS5 will be standard PC parts and Cerny much like PS4 will focus on some insignificant detail hailing it as next gen stuff to give it an air of being different from rest despite using bog standard parts"
Last time it was "Garlic" bus with PS4 now it is slightly customized amd true audio chip.

I really hoped them or MS would go for specialized fixed function physics engine but i guess they don't want to innovate.
 
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