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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Do you think EA cares more about "Technology" than money? No? How about Activision? Bethesda? Take 2? Rockstar? No, they don't, all they care about is money. Don't get me wrong, of course they will make games for next gen too, but until that install base is not sizable enough, they will still be cross-gen games, just like there always are.

You're failing to grasp, just like the other poster told you, technology ties into their ability to make money.

None of those publishers seemed to care that the PS4 and Xbox One install base was only a mere fraction of the PS3/360 install base when they decided to not make their games cross gen. You need to drop those black and white views you have on how these business actually operates.

For like the umpteenth time, never said cross-gen games won't exist. Pay attention.
 
PCMR crap? Wth? Im a console and pc gamer, the fact that games are developed on PCs doesnt have anything to do with that, its just how game development works
Are you aware that you post history is public, right? :)👇
Hi everyone, I'm a gamer at heart! I also love music, like, a lot! I play mostly on PC.
Since yesterday you are pushing the idea, without providing any king of source to prove it, that the SSD on consoles are pointless since the devs are developing games for HDD PC first. That is your main point.

I just posted a good insight from a Semiconductor Analyst saying the opposite and you keep ignoring it and pushing the same PCMR rhetotic.




Mod of War Mod of War already told you to move on from the meta.

Keep going.
 
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Let's settle down on the antagonizing and baiting, especially the backseat modding meta of certain members.

Remember, your post histories are on full display for me to read, and I like puzzles.

609522_tbremise_kratos-breather.gif

Mod of War can scrub muh cache any day, look at dat bod. 😍
 
Are you aware that you post history is public, right? :)👇

Since yesterday you are pushing the idea, without providing any king of source to prove it, that the the SSD on consoles are pointless since the devs are developing games for HDD PC first. That is your main point.

I just posted a good insight from a Semiconductor Analyst saying the opposite and you keep ignoring it and pushing the same PCMR rhetotic.




Mod of War Mod of War already told you to move on from the meta.

Keep going.

*mostly*
And me playing mostly on PC doesn't make me a "PCMR" or whatever, I'm just saying the truth. I never said they are pointless, go ahead and look through my post history if you want, i said that there will be advantages, yes, but they will most noticeable on the PS5 exclusive games.
 

FeiRR

Banned
Hey guys, it's kind of heartwarming that now we have a guy who uses "PC baseline" argument to say that it's going to drag consoles down as the generation unfolds.

Last time we had all those "hurr durr, tablet CPU" types. I mean, they weren't wrong at all... but you know the attitude.
A lot of PC gamers will be facing a choice: an expensive upgrade to catch up with consoles or maybe just let it go and buy one. Which I always cheer for. No matter the brand, a console is the best tool to play games.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Has anyone watched RedGamingTech's latest video? He said he has been in communication with a number of developers working with the PS5, he asked them whether PS5 will have the full RDNA 2 feature set when compared to the Series X. Apparently he got some vague answers but they did interestingly mention that he should look at what Sony has done in the past, especially with heavily customising their GPU's to incorporate features of future architectures within them, hinting that the PS5's GPU may have features which we will see in RDNA 3. Not surprising since this to an extent mirrors what Cerny said when describing how the relation works when developing the GPU with Sony and how they require certain features from AMD and how likewise AMD will incorporate those features in future graphics cards.
 
Hey guys, it's kind of heartwarming that now we have a guy who uses "PC baseline" argument to say that it's going to drag consoles down as the generation unfolds.

Last time we had all those "hurr durr, tablet CPU" types. I mean, they weren't wrong at all... but you know the attitude.
A lot of PC gamers will be facing a choice: an expensive upgrade to catch up with consoles or maybe just let it go and buy one. Which I always cheer for. No matter the brand, a console is the best tool to play games.

Agree there that it's the HDDs that will hold these systems back. Sure you can always install an SSD into a PC but the level of customizations that these consoles have take full advantage of their drives. Something that can't really be said about PC since PCs are just a bunch of parts slapped together.
 

Ascend

Member
That's not a SSD difference.
Sequential reads is the only way to get anywhere close to peak read speed on a HDD. Or an optical drive for that matter - basically the entire history of modern consoles (the last 25 years) that's all we've been doing when optimizing for read-speeds - linearizing data access wherever possible.
Nah... That's not all we've been doing. On the HDD, files are duplicated to reduce seek times. Sequential data alone isn't going to help you much on an HDD if your seek times are through the roof. So multiple copies of the same sequential data is kept on the HDD. You cannot duplicate data on an SSD and expect more performance out of it. It will do the exact opposite. That is what I was referring to in reply to raysoft76.

You're right - SSDs 'are' different though - among other things, this is the first time where parallel data access is not only possible but actually increases throughput.
Less so on PC where I/O stack is inherently suboptimal as it's designed around mechanical drive performance, but this is exactly what the new consoles promise to address with software and hardware stack they are using.
All true.
 

martino

Member
original interview with word PS5 absent speaking about ssds....Also s on consoles on the quote was a hint.
 
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For all the people who thinks the game design is not limited so many times for the slow HDD, play FF VII I never saw so
many small passage, doors that open slowly, characters that take centuries to load conversation so they cut
off the rhythm of the game, textures that simply will not load on time.

For those who think only reducing resolution you can play any game in gpu/cpu combination .... you really need
to understand how the engine games works.

Please just check a couple of GDC talks and you will all the work necessary for accomplish so "simple" things like
lighting, loading a level, make the physics and animation don't destroy the performance.
 
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The more this goes on, everytime there is a heated discussion and think to partecipate I just realize that in few months we will see a lot of next gen games and fuck the rest lol


I know right?

Everytime some piece of information gets released there's a ton of speculation that comes with it. Unfortunately that speculation leads to extremely heated debates which end up in a derailing of the thread. I was watching over this thread from the beginning and I saw this happen many times.
 

Ascend

Member
When developers want MS to spill the beans. Most likely many of you already know, but, some of you might not...

 
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RaySoft

Member
Unless the game is a very narrow tunnel that go into in a single path in one direction, random reads are going to happen regularly. Even if you store things in a sequential manner, the chances of being able to access them in a sequential manner is really small. It's not like you can pick and choose what kind of reading you will do at any given time. The nature of games is that they are dynamic, you have freedom of interaction within the frame of the game, and that is what will produce the randomness of data access. You can't program around this, although there might be some way to slightly mitigate it.


HDDs work very differently from SSDs. The only way to increase the SSD speed to reach close to its max capacity is to basically perform sequential reads as much as possible. But that would kind of kill the exact freedom that SSDs are able to provide.


Not sure what you're getting at here, but, the SSD being slower with random reads than sequential ones is not some sort of software limit nor is it really dependent on platform.

If you had a set distance from A to B, and every meter there is an apple placed on the ground with a sequential number from 2 to 12, it will always be faster to collect all the apples in order, either from 2 to 12 or from 12 to 2, since you will be collecting them in a straight path. But even if they are placed sequentially, if you have to collect the apples in the order of dice rolls, it will always take longer, because you will have to walk a lot more by going back and forth, you will have results of apples you already collected, and it will be a lot longer before you are done. It doesn't matter if the apples are placed on concrete, grass or sand. It will always take longer.

As for the PS5 vs XSX SSD... Maybe you're a much better sprinter than I am for straight lines on a running court, but if we both need to roll the dice to collect all the apples, the difference will be quite a lot smaller.
Yes, you are right. I was to quick on the trigger there. The more small files you have, the more importaint the rnd speed is. Sequential is more for larger files. But I still stand by my overall theory that the nands Sony use isn't that special. The "magic" is done in the I/O and controller, hence something has to give, for reaching that high of a bandwidth.

My A to B anology has been more code specific in the sense that there is a "million" different ways you can achieve one goal. (getting from A to B) There will almost always be a better solution than the one you made. So always room for optimizations overall or specific for different platforms.
 
I know right?

Everytime some piece of information gets released there's a ton of speculation that comes with it. Unfortunately that speculation leads to extremely heated debates which end up in a derailing of the thread. I was watching over this thread from the beginning and I saw this happen many times.
I mean I had my cut of that shit but I'm slowly reverting to "who gives a fuck".
 
Exactly what I have been saying.

That's true to an extent however there will be developers that will go the extra mile with these SSDs. Remember every Xbox Series X and PS5 will be the same. There's no variation in the hardware at the moment. So when developers make a game for one of these systems it won't be difficult for them to take the SSD into account.

However they won't go to the extreme where the game will only be possible with an SSD. The games that are exclusive to one platform will be able to do that.
 
That's true to an extent however there will be developers that will go the extra mile with these SSDs. Remember every Xbox Series X and PS5 will be the same. There's no variation in the hardware at the moment. So when developers make a game for one of these systems it won't be difficult for them to take the SSD into account.

However they won't go to the extreme where the game will only be possible with an SSD. The games that are exclusive to one platform will be able to do that.
Again, exactly as i have been saying, PS5 exclusives will really make use of it. Multiplats however, not as much.
 
Again, exactly as i have been saying, PS5 exclusives will really make use of it. Multiplats however, not as much.

True but multiplats will still benefit from the extra speed though. I can imagine a game like Read Dead Redemption being alot faster to load and not having any pop in issues. It's not like the PS5s I/O solution will be useless to multiplat devs. It's just that those games have to be playable on normal HDDs.
 
That's true to an extent however there will be developers that will go the extra mile with these SSDs. Remember every Xbox Series X and PS5 will be the same. There's no variation in the hardware at the moment. So when developers make a game for one of these systems it won't be difficult for them to take the SSD into account.

However they won't go to the*extreme where the game will only be possible with an SSD. The games that are exclusive to one platform will be able to do that.

They will. It has to advance at some point. Better sooner rather than later
 
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True but multiplats will still benefit from the extra speed though. I can imagine a game like Read Dead Redemption being alot faster to load and not having any pop in issues. It's not like the PS5s I/O solution will be useless to multiplat devs. It's just that those games have to be playable on normal HDDs.
Man you're really kind of repeating everything I said before xD
Loading speeds will be much faster, and yes, pop-in textures shouldnt be a thing anymore
 

whoever81

Member
Has anyone watched RedGamingTech's latest video? He said he has been in communication with a number of developers working with the PS5, he asked them whether PS5 will have the full RDNA 2 feature set when compared to the Series X. Apparently he got some vague answers but they did interestingly mention that he should look at what Sony has done in the past, especially with heavily customising their GPU's to incorporate features of future architectures within them, hinting that the PS5's GPU may have features which we will see in RDNA 3. Not surprising since this to an extent mirrors what Cerny said when describing how the relation works when developing the GPU with Sony and how they require certain features from AMD and how likewise AMD will incorporate those features in future graphics cards.
In other words, surprise, nothing really new. He clearly knows his stuff but I tend to drift into sleep after 1 minute or sthg. The way he talks I don't know. No enthusiasm. No emotion basically and flat intonation.
 
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TLZ

Banned
That Switch shortage is really hurting those numbers from Nintendo. I'm surprised at how badly the X1 is doing in comparison to it's direct competitor.
Yes yes Switch shortage always when their numbers aren't selling. Not because interest might've fell for that specific week eh. No it cannot be possible because Switch has to sell 1m every week.

Yes there might've been shortages in one week or so. Doesn't mean every time interest goes down it was in shortage. Many of you forget FFVIIR was released this week and it's selling great. Attention is elsewhere now. Couldn't that be the reason I wonder? :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

TLZ

Banned
Yea thats why ms started talking about next gen. Not much to lose honestly.

No wonder sony is in no rush to talk about next gen when they r doing these numbers and still have few major titles left for this year like last of us 2 and Ghost Of tsushima
Yes, this is exactly why. When your business is doing great, there's no need to rush. All will be done in good time. When your business isn't doing so great however, you need to think and do something quick to not lose your audience (Xbox). Each have and need a different strategy, and that's how it should be.
 
Yes yes Switch shortage always when their numbers aren't selling. Not because interest might've fell for that specific week eh. No it cannot be possible because Switch has to sell 1m every week.

Yes there might've been shortages in one week or so. Doesn't mean every time interest goes down it was in shortage. Many of you forget FFVIIR was released this week and it's selling great. Attention is elsewhere now. Couldn't that be the reason I wonder? :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Aren't there any reports on PS4 shortages? I can't even buy a PS4 on Amazon in the UK. Switch Lites seem to be in abundance though
 
*mostly*
And me playing mostly on PC doesn't make me a "PCMR" or whatever, I'm just saying the truth. I never said they are pointless, go ahead and look through my post history if you want, i said that there will be advantages, yes, but they will most noticeable on the PS5 exclusive games.
So you introduce yourself as a *mostly* PC gamer, and now you are a console gamer too. Funny :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Lets check some memorable quotes from you and your ungrounded claims:

The truth
You completely missed the point. Yes there will be lots of improvements, but most of those are going to be limited to games exclusive to the PS5, all multiplats will be designed with HDDs in mind as most PC's don't have SSD's yet.

--


How is the Playstation 5's SSD a "gamechanger" when all of the multiplatform games will be targeting HDD?
We'll only see a few improvements, the main one being load times, but then again, comparing SSD load times is like comparing bullet speeds.
The only games to take full advantage of PS5 ludicrously fast SSD are the First Party exclusives, which are going to be totally amazing.
At the end of the day, games are going to look better on the SXS and load faster on the PS5. Both consoles are going to be amazing.

Keep going.
 
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T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
In other words, surprise, nothing new. He clearly knows his stuff but I tend to drift into sleep after 1 minute or sthg. The way he talks I don't know. No enthusiasm. No emotion basically and flat intonation.
How is it not new? I've actually heard very little people speak about this, most of the discussion I've seen around PS5 architecture is that it's "actually" RDNA 1 but with RDNA 2 features, let alone actual RDNA 2 or even 3, but that's mostly from fanboys Lmao
 
Yes, this is exactly why. When your business is doing great, there's no need to rush. All will be done in good time. When your business isn't doing so great however, you need to think and do something quick to not lose your audience (Xbox). Each have and need a different strategy, and that's how it should be.
PS5 did not benefit from that "Road To PS5" live stream, at all. Xbox's messaging has been way better, but as you said, PS doesn't need to rush next gen.
 

SonGoku

Member
Oh ok. Gotcha. I don't think it's about not waiting to get data from memory as often though, but rather decreasing wait time between cycles. You'll wait lightly more often but for much shorter periods of time, so to speak. But thanks for the clarification.
The idea behind cache scrubbers for PS5 as explained by Cerny is to get data as fast as possible from SSD->RAM->Caches. Flushing caches every time SSD is read would cause stalls.
The setup enables constant streaming of assets which supports Cernys claims of being able to stream assets as you turn so by the time you turn around the GPU would have rendered a new view and only storing data in memory for the next second of gameplay, all this would translate into more detailed & diverse assets.
If it is a separate and totally unique component relative to the standard CUs, then how can Sony assure tolerable yield rates for the APU, since the odds of producing an APU with one fully functional Tempest Engine out of only one Tempest Engine would be low? Do you suppose that there are redundant Tempest Engines in the APU, so that the odd of producing an APU with at least one fully functional Tempest Engine would be high?
Several GPU components dont have extra units for redundancy. To name a few: ACEs, caches, ROPs, GE etc.
Odds of a defect hitting the tiny area of the TE aren't enough to create a yields problem
 

whoever81

Member
How is it not new? I've actually heard very little people speak about this, most of the discussion I've seen around PS5 architecture is that it's "actually" RDNA 1 but with RDNA 2 features, let alone actual RDNA 2 or even 3, but that's mostly from fanboys Lmao
Still a certain veil of vagueness covering all that, we really don't know yet.
 
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TLZ

Banned
Aren't there any reports on PS4 shortages? I can't even buy a PS4 on Amazon in the UK. Switch Lites seem to be in abundance though
Yea there's plenty of Switches around. I'm not sure about PS4, but I'd imagine if the Switch had shortages then the PS4 should too. Both sell well globally. Also, if there were shortages in one area/city, doesn't mean it's the same globally.
 

TLZ

Banned
PS5 did not benefit from that "Road To PS5" live stream, at all. Xbox's messaging has been way better, but as you said, PS doesn't need to rush next gen.
I wouldn't say "at all", as there are still many tech heads who like that kind of dev talk. But yes it was definitely not aimed at the average Joe like Xbox's was, which was much easier and simpler to digest.

I would say they should've released another video for the masses, but they'd probably had it planned already for a later date.
 

SonGoku

Member
That's Sonys and MSs job, not EAs, not Ubisofts, or anyone else's job for that matter. Publishers don't care about "new tech" they care about sales, and they will put their games on the system that makes the most money
They have incentive to release early on because there's less competition and besides they have to begin development of next gen only games 2-3 years in advance so by the time consoles launch 3rd party AAA will already be deep in development of next gen only games. Falling behind next gen development can end up hurting profits
Brand new (post-RDNA2) features in the GPU is a first,
It makes sense with past prescedent too. Some people are trying to FUD the PS5 into having an RDNA 1.0 GPU, when more than likely it's borrowing a mix of features from the near-future pipeline of AMD, same as Microsoft will be doing.
Has been the case for PS4 & Pro

If that is the case they may go with 40/56 CUs and not 36/52 CUs.

They are trying to increase yields using chips up to random 4 defectives CUs.

Any chip with 5 or more defective CUs go to recycle.
The CUs are disabled for yields purpose.
That is why exists RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT.

C’mon.
The idea of disabling CUs in perfect APUs is to be at parity with the APUs with defects thus increasing yields
The way CUs are grouped in RDNA in WGPs is that if 1 CU has defects the entire WGP is disabled (2CUs) and since both SEs/SAs must have the same number of working WGPs/CUs a perfect WGP (2CUs) must be disabled on the adjacent SE/SA.

You taught me all this when RDNA was first revealed lol
 
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