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[Vae_Victis]

But why six? Can anyone provide some examples as to what data might constitute each of the six priority levels?

Cerny used audio files for enemies being killed as an example. But I guess most stuff (geometry, meshes, textures, AI-related stuff, sound etc.) will simply be distributed over the multiple channels according to priority levels required for the correct functioning of the game.

I don't think there was a specific reason linked to game design as to why it had to be 6 instead of 5 or 7, if that's what you mean. Different games will surely use them differently, and might need to use them all or not. It was probably a number high enough to guarantee no bottlenecks in 99% of the situations, that at the same time didn't mess with the structure of the SSD, the connecting structure with the rest of the system or inflate the construction cost needlessly.

It's like asking why a particular highway has 4 lanes specifically: because that's the number they assumed would guarantee traffic flow without overkill.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

Je sais même plus si on doit en rire ou avoir pitié? Et si c'est un fanboy Xbox sérieux ou un troll Sony.
Je sais pas si t'as remarqué aussi que souvent ceux qui demandent un systéme GP chez Sony sont des fanboys Microsoft?

Translate:

Don't know if we should laugh or have pity? And don't know if a serious MS fanboy or a Sony fanboy troll?
Don't know if you see that most of time, people that want a gamepass like for Sony are MS fanboy that don't want to buy a Sony console?

Oui, c'est généralement eux. Ils ne veulent pas acheter Sony, mais ils veulent les jeux. (I hope I'm putting it right, my french is a little rusty)
//////////
Yes, it is usually them. They don't want to buy Sony, but they want the games.

 

[Games Dean]

Have there been any leaks/rumors of Resogun 2 being in development, at any point? I would LOVE another Resogun. First game launched with PS4, right? Maybe makes sense for 2 to launch with PS5?

The team that developed it is working on their first AAA project so Resogun 2 most likely not coming any time soon if it ever does.

 

[Games Dean]

'And no, there won’t be any PS5 news or updates in this episode, just a deep dive into the world of The Last of Us Part II.'

Damn. If they are showing TLOU2 this week, what are the chances we get a PS5 event announcement?

Slim to none.

 

[FeiRR]

I've said it multiple times in this thread, but it is well worth backing up, formatting the PS4(or Pro HDD) on a PC, reinstalling with USB firmware before opening any PS4/Pro for thermal pasting.

You changing the the HDD did the same task, and using an SSD should alleviate any read or write issues on a slow laptop HDD (that may cause heat issues) even more. I wonder if FeiRR changed the HDD to an SSD or did a external HDD format and restore if his Pro would also see a noise reduction - like my friend's pro did.

I bought an external SSD because I didn't want to spend double on 1 TB so I just keep there some games I play. Also the comparison video I had watched before that showed that USB SSD is faster than an internal drive. I know it sounds illogical but there were some benchmarks. And finally, when time comes, I'll just switch the drive to PS5 and move my games via it.

If I'd known the heat difference is so huge, I think I'd have gone for an internal one but now it's too late. I have 3 other drives in my PC but they're also smaller.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I just remembered, isn't this edition supposed to come on June 2nd?

 

[Vaztu]

'And no, there won’t be any PS5 news or updates in this episode, just a deep dive into the world of The Last of Us Part II.'

Damn. If they are showing TLOU2 this week, what are the chances we get a PS5 event announcement?

Dr Strange

 

[ZeroFool]

My only complaint against Bo_Hazem is that he must hire people to post for him. Regardless they all seem to stay on topic no matter what hour it is in the world.

I don't mind what used to be called Ford VS Chevy bias, in small doses it is healthy and constructive to the community. In large dozes it turns Minecraft into a game with better graphics than The Last Order. /sarcasm (we all know Minecraft has better sharp edges)

I will freely admit my console bias is not to the hardware boxes themselves but the controllers. The older I get the less time it takes my manly small hands to develop pain. So I will tend to play on the console with my favorite controller, and let's admit that is the Steam controller!

All kidding aside, love the tech talk and speculation. At first I thought this generation was going to be rather boring in the details, but now we know there are a few different ways both companies have gone to tackle both graphics and I/O improvements.

This should keep us entertained for years both in playing the games and here bantering about. I have lurked here since the PS3/360 days, nice to finally have an account.

 

[xacto]

Oui, c'est généralement eux. Ils ne veulent pas acheter Sony, mais ils veulent les jeux. (I hope I'm putting it right, my french is a little rusty)
//////////
Yes, it is usually them. They don't want to buy Sony, but they want the games.

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Dr Strange

 

[Vaztu]

A salty end indeed.

Spoiler

Just kidding, its all for bit of fun

 

[TBiddy]

Good, now we can discuss. Do all games have stories? No. Do all games have deep story-telling, lots of cinematic cut scenes? No.

With new AI tech, you can even replicate someone's voice so you don't need more than one person to do it for you:




Now, many hours are spent for animation as well, but new animation tech can provide natural animations without a lot of time and money spent on actors and settings, not to mention animals which is the hardest:




You don't need to bake lighting anymore with UE5 at least with Lumen:

Lumen is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. The system renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in huge, detailed environments, at scales ranging from kilometers to millimeters. Artists and designers can create more dynamic scenes using Lumen, for example, changing the sun angle for time of day, turning on a flashlight, or blowing a hole in the ceiling, and indirect lighting will adapt accordingly. Lumen erases the need to wait for lightmap bakes to finish and to author light map UVs—a huge time savings when an artist can move a light inside the Unreal Editor and lighting looks the same as when the game is run on console.

A first look at Unreal Engine 5

Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.

www.unrealengine.com

World design:

Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see. Nanite virtualized geometry means that film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons can be imported directly into Unreal Engine—anything from ZBrush sculpts to photogrammetry scans to CAD data—and it just works. Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time so there are no more polygon count budgets, polygon memory budgets, or draw count budgets; there is no need to bake details to normal maps or manually author LODs; and there is no loss in quality.

A first look at Unreal Engine 5

Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.

www.unrealengine.com

And:

In a recent interview, Lost Wing developer Tim Ash of BoxFrog Games discusses how the PlayStation 5 will improve and quicken the development process.

PS5 CPU Will Make Development Time Faster

In a recent interview, Lost Wing developer Tim Ash of BoxFrog Games discusses how the PlayStation 5 will improve and quicken the development process.

gamerant.com

Now something is specific to PS5:

The developers are saying PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they have ever coded on to reach its peak performance. Software-wise, coding for PS5 is extremely simple and has so many abilities that make the [developers] so free. In total, I can say PS5 is a better console.

PS5 is 'a better console' says Crytek engineer, simpler to develop for

A Crytek rendering engineer believes the PS5 is the ‘better’ console compared to the Xbox Series X and is much simpler to make games for.

metro.co.uk

==========

So, accordingly, I think half the time is possible, a personal opinion that I hope it doesn't offend anyone here.

Sorry for being blunt, but it's a lot of fluff and very little substance. There's very little here, that isn't possible in current-gen, including the new optimizations in the UE5. I'm still curious as how you deduced that the SSD in the PS5 would enable to developers to cut dev time in half - especially when you then start talking about UE5, AI and animation.... it's almost like you're reaching for anything that could potentially back up your claim.

A lot of the work regarding AAA games are also unaffected by the SSD. You're not going to magically write a story faster, start prototyping, etc. in half the time.

Regarding the PS5 quote at the end, it would be odd for Sony to release what is for all intents and purposes a next-gen PS4 and then fuck up the SDK to an extent, where it would be hard for developers to develop for it. Sony is not going to do another PS3.

I doubt anyone is offended by your personal opinion. But then again, some people get offended about people believing the earth is flat, so what do I know.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Thanks man, trying to gather as much information as possible. I've watched 'Road to PS5' nearly 10 times now and the topic about SSD priority levels always flies over my head, no matter how hard I try to understand. Really itching to see some comparisons between XSX/PS5 now, as well as on PC.

The simple take is to think of it like Task Manager priorities you may be familiar with. If everything runs at the same priority one process can take all your resources and leave something else churning. But say you want a game or video to play smoothly while you're also trying to transcode a file in the background. You could set the transcode priority lower, so that it backs off when anther process needs the CPU, or set the other ones higher to not.


Cerny's example was a voice file on killing an enemy. Normally a developer would have to pack that sound into RAM because on current gen it would be far too slow to get that file, but now with the SSD that can take a higher priority and play instantly rather than being queued and missing its time.

All of the SSD patents and everything they've described is pointing to storage that's far more deterministic in performance than SSDs ever have been in the past. Not RAM speed, but a step closer to RAM-like determinism in how long it takes to get at something.

That's what Tim Sweeney was describing, and what the "huh? this $3000 PC drive is faster, it can't be ahead!" crowd hasn't gotten.

 

[ToadMan]

But why six? Can anyone provide some examples as to what data might constitute each of the six priority levels?

I'm gonna guess the priorities are shared with the O/S but that's not necessarily the case... If it is let's assume priority 1 (top) and 6 (lowest) are reserved for the o/s. Pri 1 for what happens if the player wants to drop to the O/S and pri 6 for backgound data - background installs for example.

In terms of gameplay, the devs don't know what the player will do and the time they'll do it.

priority 4: normal streaming/gameplay

priority 3 : oops, player died, get the data (graphics, animations) relating to dying into memory now. Its so fast this only takes 0.1 secs so it can just wait on the SSD.

pri 2 : oh, just as the player dies they hit the menu button - cue up the options screen now. Its's small too, so it just waits on SSD until required.

pri 5: if the player stops moving and there's no pri 4 data - load the animations for the player character standing there doing nothing (Snake lights a smoke). We're going to wait a few seconds before we animate so no rush.

These are basically interrupt priority - the system is busy streaming a large file from the SSD, but if a higher priority demand comes in, the current file is paused. It'll be determined programatically not predetermined even though I wrote it that way above.

 

[hemo memo]

So no announcement before Wednesday.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Please, Sony, can you finish it with 'oh, I almost forgot, PS5 event will be June XXth'.

Do we really need to see more of this game? It is releasing soon anyway.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

So no announcement before Wednesday.

No one can say for certain but we should be pumped anyway, we’ll be getting our first look at the next-gen games in a week or two.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Do we really need to see more of this game? It is releasing soon anyway.

Well, they must reassure people there's still life on PS4 before jumping on the next gen, what will probably happen next week if OPM haven't bamboozled everyone again.

 

[zaitsu]

Xbox preorders soon (TM)

Xbox Series X | Xbox

Discover the fastest, most powerful Xbox ever with the Xbox Series X.

www.microsoft.com

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

I'm gonna guess the priorities are shared with the O/S but that's not necessarily the case... If it is let's assume priority 1 (top) and 6 (lowest) are reserved for the o/s. Pri 1 for what happens if the player wants to drop to the O/S and pri 6 for backgound data - background installs for example.

In terms of gameplay, the devs don't know what the player will do and the time they'll do it.

priority 4: normal streaming/gameplay

priority 3 : oops, player died, get the data (graphics, animations) relating to dying into memory now. Its so fast this only takes 0.1 secs so it can just wait on the SSD.

pri 2 : oh, just as the player dies they hit the menu button - cue up the options screen now. Its's small too, so it just waits on SSD until required.

pri 5: if the player stops moving and there's no pri 4 data - load the animations for the player character standing there doing nothing (Snake lights a smoke). We're going to wait a few seconds before we animate so no rush.

These are basically interrupt priority - the system is busy streaming a large file from the SSD, but if a higher priority demand comes in, the current file is paused. It'll be determined programatically not predetermined even though I wrote it that way above.

Yes, that the system (as opposed to the game or app) has its own priorities is a really good guess.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Xbox preorders soon (TM)

Xbox Series X | Xbox

Discover the fastest, most powerful Xbox ever with the Xbox Series X.

www.microsoft.com

Pricing will be revealed during June event, and pre-orders will start

 

[Dee_Dee]

Xbox preorders soon (TM)

Xbox Series X | Xbox

Discover the fastest, most powerful Xbox ever with the Xbox Series X.

www.microsoft.com

Apparently Phil has a surprise tomorrow that will be revealed on a podcast with Reggie

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Gents,
I joined here to speculate about next gen, but so far we have been going in circles arguing about next gen specs. We should learn from UE5 demo that arguing about specs is a waste of time.
Let's steer the topic into speculating about how next gen game should look like ( from design point of view) what do we want to see. For example, I feel there was some downgrades this generation from PS360 generation. During PS360 generation we saw many enemies on screen with some nice destruction and great story driven campaigns. This gen we saw few enemies on screen, less action, no destruction, huge boring open world with boring side quests, generic online games.

Let's hope nect gen brings the excitement of the PS360 era back again.

 

[Great Hair]

Apparently Phil has a surprise tomorrow that will be revealed on a podcast with Reggie

He might have leaked it already.
sry

 

[Three Jackdaws]

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Been thinking about this since the PS5 GDC video.

There is no way so many sources could get the TF number so wrong on so any occassions. When Road To PS5 video happened i was half asleep when i unlocked my phone and checked the news at 4am in the morning. That 10TF number was such a shock to me. I was legit like 'Holy Shit, what happened'.

Something is just off about this 13TF number and I can't really say what it is. I mean i'm no insider, i just follow the news and posts of people who may know. I just don't and probably will never understand why we were led to believe that 12-13TF is where PS5 will land up with.
Perhaps the TF number is total system performance rather than brute force power, I have no idea, but like i say its just super weird. how it was all done and i suspect many here on GAF at the time of the GDC video was shocked to see the final TF figure.

I think it's a faulty number from an app that's not optimized for the PS5 API, reading all collective power. The Ryzen 7 3700x does 0.546TF:

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X vs AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - GadgetVersus

Comparison between AMD Ryzen 9 3900X and AMD Ryzen 7 3700X with the specifications of the processors, the number of cores, threads, cache memory, also the performance in benchmark platforms such as Geekbench, Passmark, Cinebench or AnTuTu.

gadgetversus.com

The I/O is an equivalent to ~12 Zen2 cores, so that could roughly translate like the Ryzen 9 3900x 0.82TF from the same source above.

So far, it's roughly 11.65TF. Now the Tempest 3D Audio is a cache-less, GPU-based, SPU-like compute unit. How many CU's? Not sure, but it can send up to 20GB/s of data as Mark Cerny said. While AMD's TrueAudio Next in 2017 had to reserve 4 CU's to make 128 sound sources:

Mark Cerny stated that it can support up to 5,000 sound sources, while they'll focus on hundreds of complex, high quality 3D audio:

“It would have been wonderful if a simpler strategy such using as Dolby Atmos peripherals could have achieved our goals, but we wanted 3D audio for all, not just those with licensed sound bars or the like,” Cerny stated. “Also we wanted hundreds of sound sources not just the 32 that Atmos supports. And finally, we wanted to be able to throw an overwhelming amount of processing power at the problem.”

Appuals

Appuals.com is a leading technology website run by a team of enthusiastic nerds and experts with a mission to make tech around you easier to understand and operate.

appuals.com

So my conclusion, if we give them the benefit of the doubt, is that it's an inflated number shown in an unoptimized program in an attempt to figure out the TF of the PS5 dev-kit, not to mention that some might have been with higher clock speed which got dialed down later to 2.23GHz.

HeisenbergFX4 what's your take? Do you think it's possible?

 

[TBiddy]

Pricing will be revealed during June event, and pre-orders will start

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

 

[Captain Hero]

PlayStation 5 reveal in June No games only the console and The tech behind it ..

It’s a hunch

 

[Three Jackdaws]

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

If they do plan on releasing Lockhart I don't see a $399 price for the Series X

 

[Dee_Dee]

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

If that happens then Lockhart must be canned

 

[sircaw]

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

If Microsoft could hit the 399 it would be a mean feat with that hardware, that would also be taking a massive lose on their end.
I would love them to hit that, as they would probably mean i would not bother with a lockheart but then lockheart would need to be 200 bucks otherwise that price does not make sense.

I still suspect 500, tech is to good for anything lower.

 

[ethomaz]

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

That will be great for MS.... if PS5 is $499 they will finally be competitive.

 

[zaitsu]

PlayStation 5 reveal in June No games only the console and The tech behind it ..

It’s a hunch

No way its true

 

[zaitsu]

That will be great for MS.... if PS5 is $499 they will finally be competitive.

I think both Will be the same price

 

[pasterpl]

Xbox preorders soon (TM)

Xbox Series X | Xbox

Discover the fastest, most powerful Xbox ever with the Xbox Series X.

www.microsoft.com

I am ready

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

MBG talking about the latest rumors of PS5's launch lineup being "particularly big."

(insert "thats what she said" joke here)

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I think both Will be the same price

If Series X is 499 I do see Sony undercutting them, they've done it before and they can do it again regardless of who's got the most money. IMO I do see Microsoft targeting an "affordable" price point for the Series X rather than targeting to undercut PS5. Just speculation of course.

 

[MasterCornholio]

MBG talking about the latest rumors of PS5's launch lineup being "particularly big."

(insert "thats what she said" joke here)

Didn't that Russian guy said the launch lineup would be terrible?

 

[Metroiddarks]

MBG talking about the latest rumors of PS5's launch lineup being "particularly big."

(insert "thats what she said" joke here)

That guy is dealer level fanboy as I know .... don't listen him.

 

[zaitsu]

If Series X is 499 I do see Sony undercutting them, they've done it before and they can do it again regardless of who's got the most money. IMO I do see Microsoft targeting an "affordable" price point for the Series X rather than targeting to undercut PS5. Just speculation of course.

Better for us. Maybe we end up with Them both being priced 399 ( but i think 499 is more likely).

 

[Three Jackdaws]

That guy is dealer level fanboy as I know .... don't listen him.

I can't speak to comparisons with other fanatics but I will say that he has very poor quality videos, dude makes a video about every little leak/rumour and pretty much talks about the same thing in every video lmao at least get a little creative or do 1 video a week summarising leaks and rumours.

 

[sircaw]

MBG talking about the latest rumors of PS5's launch lineup being "particularly big."

(insert "thats what she said" joke here)

Chunk are you secretly MBG in disguise. and no for the retort, i am not crap-gamer but the amount of times i died in bloodborne might somehow suggest otherwise.

 

[Metroiddarks]

I can't speak to comparisons with other fanatics but I will say that he has very poor quality videos, dude makes a video about every little leak/rumour and pretty much talks about the same thing in every video lmao at least get a little creative or do 1 video a week summarising leaks and rumours.

Maybe I am wrong but was not this guy many time before a Xbox fan who after became a PS fanboy ?

 

[sircaw]

Maybe I am wrong but was not this guy many time before a Xbox fan who after became a PS fanboy ?

You are 100% correct.

 

[paypay88]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.
NVIDIA R&D is one of the best teams along with Google,Microsoft,Facebook. AMD's priority is since 2010 to earn market share. They were doing terrible those days. This is what most of their R&D went. NVIDIA was and still doing mighty fine so that was why they saw opportunity with Deep Learning in 2011 (along with technical breakthrough by finding backprop algorithm)

TLDR:

So you won't get any significant AI system working on next gen machines. A chatbot like assistant maybe(from the leaks I saw Playstation supposedly ) but that's not gonna be something much important to users. More like to collect more data about purchase habits, search habits etc it will provide a greater purpose to company itself then users.

Since there wont be a third party ,open source API like for this stuff companies either gonna deal with themselves or dont bother at all. I dont believe companies are gonna hire deep learning software engineers for it. That's simply not priority for most companies.

Though DirectML from looks good but PlayStation doesn't use Direct X so i doubt multi platform developers will care for that. If a third party like AWS supported that sure.
Microsoft first party will probably use it though.

 

[Fake]

Almost there SonGoku

 

[Great Hair]

A custom built 3800X at 3.6Ghz with a 5700XT/or better, clocked at 2.2Ghz with 16GB GDDR6 and nice SSD for $399?



RAM= <$100
SSD = <$200
APU = <$200
REST = <$100 (here´s where they´re cutting corners)

$499 easy. $550 to 599 quite possible, not feasible tough. $399 that´s cheap, big loss per sold unit.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Might have been that Sony didn't EXACTLY know about Microsoft's SSD architecture and they went all out, balls to the wall? I mean, barring a mid-gen refresh in 3 to 4 years (IF it will happen this time around), what you come up with at the beginning of a new generation will be defining your sales; go half-cocked, you might regret it deeply down the line.

No idea, I am just shooting in the dark here. But as Microsoft went with the TF count, it's not crazy to think that Sony's team decided to put their eggs in a different basket.

It's been 2 years since God of War, and Cory Barlog said that the sequel will take less time to make than the first (5 years):

"A big portion of the five years was, we had to start from scratch," Barlog said. "Everything really needed to be redone, because we just had torn the engine apart in so many different ways that when we finally brought the team together, everyone realized, 'OK, this is not where it needs to be.'"

"So even when you see E3 2016, the rendering engine wasn’t there, the lighting engine was half-there, the atmospheric engine was half-there. The core mechanics were there, but a lot of the way we were streaming and loading everything was still getting worked out, and figuring out how we were going to get it logistically to work. We knew what we wanted, we just didn’t know technologically how we were going to get it in the right order."

God of War took five years to make - here's why, and why it won't take as long next time

Yes, there will almost certainly be a next time

www.gamesradar.com

He mentioned on some other interviews it'll take less for the sequel and he has already 5 sequels in mind! So hopefully it'll be ready to show the trailer, at least next month.

 

[silent head]

A custom built 3800X at 3.6Ghz with a 5700XT/or better, clocked at 2.2Ghz with 16GB GDDR6 and nice SSD for $399?



RAM= <$100
SSD = <$200
APU = <$200
REST = <$100 (here´s where they´re cutting corners)

$499 easy. $550 to 599 quite possible, not feasible tough. $399 that´s cheap, big loss per sold unit.

Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year

Sony Corp. plans to produce far fewer units of its upcoming PlayStation 5 in its first year than it had for the previous-generation console’s launch, according to people familiar with the matter.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[IkarugaDE]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.
NVIDIA R&D is one of the best teams along with Google,Microsoft,Facebook. AMD's priority is since 2010 to earn market share. They were doing terrible those days. This is what most of their R&D went. NVIDIA was and still doing mighty fine so that was why they saw opportunity with Deep Learning in 2011 (along with technical breakthrough by finding backprop algorithm)

TLDR:

So you won't get any significant AI system working on next gen machines. A chatbot like assistant maybe(from the leaks I saw Playstation supposedly ) but that's not gonna be something much important to users. More like to collect more data about purchase habits, search habits etc it will provide a greater purpose to company itself then users.

Since there wont be a third party ,open source API like for this stuff companies either gonna deal with themselves or dont bother at all. I dont believe companies are gonna hire deep learning software engineers for it. That's simply not priority for most companies.

Though DirectML from looks good but PlayStation doesn't use Direct X so i doubt multi platform developers will care for that. If a third party like AWS supported that sure.
Microsoft first party will probably use it though.

Okay, after Microsoft- and Sony-Fanboys now we'll get that. I'm curious what comes next.