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Jeff Grubb: Devs Fawning over PS5. Haven't heard the same praise for XSX, but heard nothing bad

Dory16

Banned
DF CPU throttling report? I missed it or maybe they never reported that lol
You missed something that doesn't praise the PS5 as the new sliced bread? I'm shocked. Never mind that it is in the DF article on their one to one with Cerny that you have used many times to defend the console.
 
You responded to an independent Journo and a 3rd party source with a bunch of MS paid articles...

Yeah that'll learn 'em lol.
To be fair, he's similar to the ex Kotaku Jason guy. Biased game journalist are a thing.

OT, Most of the praise has been from Sony devs. And the guy said PS5 dev kits have been out longer.

I do wonder if the potential Lockhart existence may have soured some devs opinion on Xbox since developing XSX and Lockhart will require more work.

In the end, I have no doubt MS has built an amazing system and most powerful with the XSX and DF were highly impressed with it.
 
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Sure, it depends on familiarity you know, when you are not familiar with development environment, it's harder to pick one up. Basically 90% of code use in that game is same, that's code beyond the Cry engine, but like if you know are familiard with Direct X and not familiar with....fuck what it was called that PS4 API libvm(??), then from your amateur view, it's like "well, I can pick up the XB1 right away...but PS4, I am not so sure". I hope you understand what I meant : ) I did some works on the menus, so don't expect for me to have some deep dive into which console is better in development : )

PS4's memory was just naturally easier to use as well. There's more knicks and bolts to it than just "familiarity"
 

ethomaz

Banned
Sure, it depends on familiarity you know, when you are not familiar with development environment, it's harder to pick one up. Basically 90% of code use in that game is same, that's code beyond the Cry engine, but like if you know are familiard with Direct X and not familiar with....fuck what it was called that PS4 API libvm(??), then from your amateur view, it's like "well, I can pick up the XB1 right away...but PS4, I am not so sure". I hope you understand what I meant : ) I did some works on the menus, so don't expect for me to have some deep dive into which console is better in development : )
PS4 has two libraries to be fair.
One DirextX wrapper that is identical yo DirectX and so was made to make devs like you feel familiar with the DevTools.
And the other more simple and close to metal (I don’t remember the name... libGC or something like) where you can get the best of PS4.

That simple and close to metal API is easier to use than DirectX due the non-multiplatform nature but if you are developing for multiplatform DirextX makes it easier to be ready to all platforms but you lose the low overhead of the PS4 main API.
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Why? Mostly cause Xbox leadership lied, is my guess. They had their fans running around shouting about 'Azure' and 'the cloud' for years while they didn't have anything to play....
I agree with this, but leadership was pretty different, besides, they use it today as a gag. (you have to read the text for you to spotted):
EYZJo9rUYAA3H8T


PS4 has two libraries to be fair.
One DirextX wrapper that is identical yo DirectX and so was made to make devs like you feel familiar with the DevTools.
And the other more simple and close to metal (I don’t remember the name) where you can get the best of PS4.

That simple and close to metal API is easier to use than DirectX due the non-multiplatform nature but if you are developing for multiplatform DirextX makes it easier to be ready to all platforms but you lose the low overhead of the PS4 API.
Alright, I probably seen that one which was more close to metal, because shareds were written in C99 type of code, which is in string, that's probably indication that it was not meant to be for indie devs. And well, I don't think that you have to give much thought, when you are doing multiplayt code, because that Direct X is same across the platforms, it's just a matter of config file, how much stuff you are allowed to appear on the screen. There was not any low-level Xbox specific fuckery, when I was there and I obviously asked about it. But sure, I don't try to program for the PS4 so far, so I don't know : )

PS4's memory was just naturally easier to use as well. There's more knicks and bolts to it than just "familiarity"
Yeah, but from the code perspective, you don't manage memory pool by hand, even low-level api do it for you, because that would be crazy amount of work. On Xbox it was hidden behind API, so programing for XB1 and XB1X was the same. Anyway with "familiarity" I meant myself, who has done some small Direct X projects. So that's what I meant. These days you really don't have to think much about physical HW rather, what API allows you to do and how nice it runs, it's not easier than before, because to stay competitive, you have to use latest "tricks", but there many whitepapers on this everywhere (many studios have engineers, who work on this research stuff), but it's more like what approach you use to for example create this light, than that you would have be concerned how to write that in DWORDs, so hardware can even run it. That's the advantage of common feature set between consoles today.
 
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Chiggs

Member
You just kinda get the feeling Microsoft is totally screwed unless they can pull some miracle with pricing.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You missed something that doesn't praise the PS5 as the new sliced bread? I'm shocked. Never mind that it is in the DF article on their one to one with Cerny that you have used many times to defend the console.
Source please because they didn’t said that devs have CPU throttling that in that article.
 
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longdi

Banned
So just I get this right.
Ps5 and Series X have the same tech and Series X is more powerful, but Ps5 is the better console and gets more praise from devs?

Yeah that makes sense

easier to develop(cos SSD makes data management easier)? ahead of development schedule (hence the weaker 'older' hardware)? or just Jeff 'somebody' grubb
 
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You just kinda get the feeling Microsoft is totally screwed unless they can pull some miracle with pricing.

ehh, I don’t think they’re screwed. If you expect them to completely bridge the sales gap this gen then maybe you could call them “screwed,” that’s not going to happen (imo anyway). I think they will do just fine though and sell a little better than they did this gen.

“MS is screwed” seems like “sky is falling” hyperbole to me.
 

Neo_game

Member
Even though people were mocking Sony for the road to PS5 and their decision to go for 36CU. I think now many guys are realizing that PS5 is actually a better engineered console. It is more customized console and will have much less bottlneck than Xbox. Having said that I do not know why they backed out of 16gbps RAM. 512gb/sec would have made a difference for sure. I also think devs will be able to get more out of PS5. Xbox will be compromised of S version and their API as others mentioned, it is going to scale. Where as Sony are fans of new console generation and they have no such thing called scaling in their books.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Even though people were mocking Sony for the road to PS5 and their decision to go for 36CU. I think now many guys are realizing that PS5 is actually a better engineered console. It is more customized console and will have much less bottlneck than Xbox. Having said that I do not know why they backed out of 16gbps RAM. 512gb/sec would have made a difference for sure. I also think devs will be able to get more out of PS5. Xbox will be compromised of S version and their API as others mentioned, it is going to scale. Where as Sony are fans of new console generation and they have no such thing called scaling in their books.
I call this Next-gen thread constant validation effect.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
So just I get this right.
Ps5 and Series X have the same tech and Series X is more powerful, but Ps5 is the better console and gets more praise from devs?

Yeah that makes sense
Better =/= more powerful

He might be talking about SDK maturity and/or easiness of use, for example, or the benefits of a single ram pool (even if slower in average), or less OS/APIs overhead, or the benefits of the faster SSD (or any combination of those)
 
The Xbox 360 was the most dev friendly console and the the best example in this case. Which is why 3rd party games looked and played better on it. But given time for devs to understand the PS3 architecture the 1st party games really shined. Which is why unless devs are just unwilling to work on games for the xsx I don't see it mattering, and that's assuming there will really be that big of a difference in ease of development 🙄 Because I also feel like times are a lot different from then. With consoles becoming more and more pc-like the idea that devs just won't understand how to or will struggle to make games for a specific console is the dumbest thing I've ever heard all day.
 
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Chiggs

Member
If you expect them to completely bridge the sales gap this gen then maybe you could call them “screwed,” that’s not going to happen (imo anyway). I think they will do just fine though and sell a little better than they did this gen.

I don’t expect them to dethrone Sony—that’s crazy talk, but they should at least be reasonably competitive, and the momentum seems to be almost entirely on Sony’s side.

Microsoft’s marketing and PR is just so shockingly bad, and you just can’t be sloppy when dealing with a brand as strong as Sony’s.
 
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Even though people were mocking Sony for the road to PS5 and their decision to go for 36CU. I think now many guys are realizing that PS5 is actually a better engineered console. It is more customized console and will have much less bottlneck than Xbox. Having said that I do not know why they backed out of 16gbps RAM. 512gb/sec would have made a difference for sure. I also think devs will be able to get more out of PS5. Xbox will be compromised of S version and their API as others mentioned, it is going to scale. Where as Sony are fans of new console generation and they have no such thing called scaling in their books.

Umm what evidence do you have that PS5 has less bottlenecks than XSX? How did we get to this point? Your post seems more like wishful thinking with no facts to back them up.

And again, XSX will have next gen only titles at their July even. Whether that Hellblade 2, Bloobers new project,Playgrounds new Fable, or The Initiative's new game.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
So just I get this right.
Ps5 and Series X have the same tech and Series X is more powerful, but Ps5 is the better console and gets more praise from devs?

Yeah that makes sense
Faster SSD, Better I/O, higher clocked GPU, non-split approach to memory.

Digital Foundry and other devs have said they can get more out of a quicker GPU with less CUs vs the wide approach that MS is going with.

Yes, Xbox Series X is more powerful, but it just seems like devs can tap into the PlayStation's power easier.
 
was he the first to mention 4 Jun? Iirc there were many throwing dates, acting as insider.
i never really heard of this jeff until today 🤷‍♀️

He did specifically say June 4th at the end of April

Also hinted at the Tony Hawk game and was spot on about the other reveals
 
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zaitsu

Banned
And we still won't know if the PS5 gpu is better than the 2080 until we actually see it in action. If you're just looking at it from tflop perspective then you're just being ignorant.
Im pretty sure that ps5 gpu is on 2080 super level judging by rdna2 having 30% better performance than rdna1
 
If you think devs are the bulk of the 110 millions who bought the PS4 you are mistaken.
Hint: the devs made business with Sony to sell you something that will work through Sony's product.
Hint 2: Sony have their own devs.

Smh.
And why did the 110 million people buy a Sony console or a Microsoft, Sega, Nintendo console for that matter?

Games. If you have shit games, your system sells fuck all. Then when you have the install base, 3rd parties will work with you.

Don't reply though, you'll be over your quota of two posts a day
 
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