Mozza
Member
You can't go off the Unreal 5 demo, sure it looked good, but there was no real gameplay, no enemies on screen, just looked like a movie trailer to me.
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Jeff Grubb: Devs Fawning over PS5. Haven't heard the same praise for XSX, but heard nothing bad
- Thread starter Agnostic2020
- Start date
You can't go off the Unreal 5 demo, sure it looked good, but there was no real gameplay, no enemies on screen, just looked like a movie trailer to me.
Tulipanzo
Member
You're right, proprietary memory will very likely work out just great.
Now, to take a big sip of coffee and order a Vita memory card...
geordiemp
Member
So unless I am a DX12 expert I cant comment on how slow DX11 was as it had very fat absraction layers, and that cant apply to DX12 unless you are developing on DX12.
OK lol.
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MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
When you look at GPU equivalents yes, XSX will achieve higher FPS with RTX on. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. The major difference though will be felt in load times. That's where the major next-gen leap will take place and the PS5 has a solution that Xbox doesn't.
Probably not due to the XSXs stronger GPU. The PS5 will have other advantages.
Now, I'm assuming both consoles will be targeting at minimum 60FPS for every single 1080p game obviously, as well as 1440p and both consoles are more than capable of hitting that regardless of the game. I would take quicker load times over High vs Ultra settings any day of week, which is about as simple as I can make it in terms of the power differences in the CPU/GPU. You're looking roughly at 2070 Super(PS5) vs 2080 TI(XSX)
sendit
Member
Sony have never done this sort of thing before, oh hang on Memory Stick, Vita storage cards, Sony just can't help themselves when they think they have a good idea, must admit I was gutted when Mini disc's were gone.
No one is saying Sony hasn't done this before.....To say MS solution isn't anti consumer in a sense is misleading.
With that said, I prefer Microsoft's approach regarding storage upgrades. It reduces confusion with having a proprietary (anti-consumer) solution. I hope Sony realizes this and releases their own branded SSD drives for the PS5.
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
It's 9 seconds, and there's a very clear disclaimer in the information bar for the video.
"Demo uses backward compatible Xbox title to demonstrate load time technology and does not represent gameplay optimized for Xbox Series X."
This stuff all has to be optimized for, this is just a backward compatible title running natively and is not optimized for the storage device or architecture. What you're seeing is the same thing that takes place with a PC SSD loading a game. This is why a 500MB/s SSD will load a game just as quickly as a 3,500MB/s drive, there's no optimization for it to take extra advantage of the hardware, it's akin to a GPU lacking drivers.
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geordiemp
Member
Its not hard to follow, the demo was just showing you the image quality of small trinagles and high quality assets.
Take it or leave it, up to you.....but you know whats coming thursday....
TBiddy
Member
You can make all the comments about DX11 that you want, but since you have zero knowledge about DX12, it makes you look silly when you make absolute statements and are unable to back them up in any way what so ever.
Leyasu
Banned
Was State of decay made especially for a console sporting an SSD?
Did they show full spideman gameplay? From the game booting up to running around the street then taking to the air so to speak?
The UE5 demo.... I will not judge that until I see a game running on both consoles.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Oh this is great, considering how much shit the Xbox fans side gave Sony for anything they did that was proprietary... priceless. Sure sure, nothing bad with forcing you to buy expanded storage only from them at a premium
At this point it is getting to “will justify anything Xbox does no matter what, the other side cannot score a point”.
Those expansion cards aren't going to be over $100. They'll probably be even lower. The fact they're going with only one manufacturer who will be producing at mass volume brings about large economies of scale, meaning the drives can be produced pretty cheaply and have a reasonable MSRP.
Controllers are, what, $60? $70 maybe for DualSense going into next-gen? I'm expecting the MS/Seagate expansion cards to be either $70 or $80; $100 at most in terms of MSRP. Pretty good price for the performance you get.
The problem with the Vita memory cards was they were just priced too high. Yeah, they had to be sold for profit given they were peripherals, but that was a case of Sony going a bit too far in terms of the profit margins. The idea itself, though, was sound and could've worked if the pricing weren't so insane.
xpresstuning
Member
I will bet you my left nut that 85 - 90% of all the games on the PS5 will be targeted at 30 FPS because that standard won't change. As for the resolution, that depends on the dev.
geordiemp
Member
13 to 24 seconds, 23 if being kind. Its 10 seconds at best.
OK, its not optimised, we were not ready. When will we see an optimised load then
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Tulipanzo
Member
Posted this in another thread, but it seemed relevant.
Feel free to correct me, but so far we've had some flavour of "the PS5 is great to work with/best hardware" from:
- Cerny (duh)
- The Crytek engineer interview
- Tim Sweeney's "the absolute best hardware that's going to exist at the end of this year"
- Jason Schreier from talking with devs
- Jeff Grubb from some veteran devs
- Quantum Error dev
Feel free to correct me, but so far we've had some flavour of "the PS5 is great to work with/best hardware" from:
- Cerny (duh)
- The Crytek engineer interview
- Tim Sweeney's "the absolute best hardware that's going to exist at the end of this year"
- Jason Schreier from talking with devs
- Jeff Grubb from some veteran devs
- Quantum Error dev
geordiemp
Member
I know more about hardware and software than you do lol, thats clear and not too hard either.
sendit
Member
Great, but this was demonstrated to millions of viewers. You're telling us that this was Microsoft's best effort to show to the public? A multi billion dollar company. (FYI..Sony's Spiderman loading/city demo was never meant to be public.)
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Fun fact: I get the same loading time on 380 Mb/s, 550 Mb/s and 3,5 Gb/s SSD. You don't need to count anything, game loads around 10-12 seconds on every SSD. On the other side the Spider-Man Demo was an adapted demo to showcase SSD performance. So tell me why it was only 2,5x times faster than a 380 Mb/s SSD when PS5 NVMe has 5,5 Gb/s? I'll tell you, because you can't use old game tech to compare technologies which are in early state of development. The only purpose of the XsX loading times benchmark was to tell you "Hi dude, you can play your old games on your new XsX and they even load faster!". If you want to interpret more, that's up to you but this ice is thinner than a paper.
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Mozza
Member
Who knows what Sony will show?, but up to now people seem to be treating the unreal 5 demo as if it were an announced game, and not just a tech demo that will run on both Sony and Microsoft's new machines.
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TBiddy
Member
Great comeback. You may be an expert on desktops and Windows, but you clearly know absolutely nothing about DX12.
geordiemp
Member
They werent ready yet, give them a another go
Oh I mean a third go, that was just quick resume, does not count because no VRS++++SFS++++whatever
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
Oh that's who you're talking to, lol.
SirTerry-T
Member
Which one has the biggest Dad?
And is he stronger and/or faster than the other Dad?
And is he stronger and/or faster than the other Dad?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Where is quick resume on the PS5?
MoreJRPG
Suffers from extreme PDS
With the amount of horsepower in these consoles, 30fps as a standard would be utterly absurd and quite honestly a disservice to the consumers and the hardware. You would be wasting roughly 60% of the GPU/RAM/CPU in that case at minimum. I can't think of a single game on the market that isn't capable of running at 60fps/1080p at it's best on these machines. Control with RTX at max is one of the few that would really push that envelope off the top of my head.
That may change 2-3 years down the line as ray tracing and other technologies advance, but in the near future I don't see how that would be possible.
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geordiemp
Member
There as a tweet from Decima engine dev (HZD) that Aloy will have more polys than the whole of Horizon zero dawn 1 cast. All of them.
It does not take a betting man to work out whats coming.
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pixelation
Member
LMAO @ all the butt hurt in this thread, some people just can't take the truth... FACT.
geordiemp
Member
LOL does not have it, at sub 1 second who cares ?
jimbojim
Banned
iorek21
Member
I have little knowledge about game development, so I have a question:
If those rumors about PS5 being revolutionary for developers, how helpful would it be? What kinds of resources are they talking about? Ain't the development process more dependant on the game engine than the console?
I get it that this super fast SSD and the Tempest sound engine may be very helpful in some aspects, but what else?
If those rumors about PS5 being revolutionary for developers, how helpful would it be? What kinds of resources are they talking about? Ain't the development process more dependant on the game engine than the console?
I get it that this super fast SSD and the Tempest sound engine may be very helpful in some aspects, but what else?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
That's not how this works, Xbox is storing an entire game state, or in this event 5 games.
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sendit
Member
Next gen isn't this gen. Expect to see quite a bit of 30 FPS games.
93xfan
Banned
you’re talking minimum difference with variable clocks. As more CPU heavy games come out, expect the difference to widen. This also doesn’t take into account more CUs and ray tracing either, nor VRR (Sony is oddly quiet whether they have this).EDIT: meant VRS, not VRR, sorry
I agree we shall see. It may not be a big or noticeable difference in a lot of games. And I do think PS5 is probably easier to make games on in regards to the API.
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geordiemp
Member
That runs on last gen consoles with 5 GB of available RAM......Yup OK.
xpresstuning
Member
I don't even know why people hype themselves with that demo, since it's been confirmed by multiple sources to run better on current laptops, of all things. Here's one.
They'll push imagine quality because it's much more marketable as they've done on the current generation, not to imply that there aren't going to be exceptions depending on the amount of developers willing to work with these home consoles. But i will assume that exceptions will be just that - exceptions to the standard. I know it's a disservice, it's not as if i like it or as if it's something i want. But it's definitely something i completely expect.
geordiemp
Member
Did you watch the UE5 demo and the culling / PRT/ partial vertex geometry ?
You think thats being quiet lol. That demo did everything in 1 showing.
You dont need to use lots of terms like VRS, mesh shading, just show it working, MS love taking standard features and giving them their own term for DX12.
Show dont talk.
By the way, VRR is a feature of HDMI 2.1
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jimbojim
Banned
Doesn't mean if Sony didn't mentioned VRS ( i presume you meant VRS, not VRR ) PS5 doesn't have it.
IIRC this tweet. So, i bet that PS5 has it
ToadMan
Member
Who said anything about “eating dirt” - not me....
The cpu and gpu may run the same code but that’s a superficial comparison point based on the apis in use (and PS5 has both Dx and it’s own apis) - but the use of SoC simulation and smartshift makes the optimisation of the code (and console development is all about optimisation) for PS5 different.
It’s optimised against a model in an entirely deterministic way while power budgeting is used to allow the gpu to be loaded up at the expense of cpu capability. That’s not the same as traditional console development or indeed the Xsex.
Xsex is using fixed clocks, discrete TDP for gpu and cpu and allowing power to vary. Sony is using unified power, and allowing power allocation to vary and in extremis clocks to vary too.
For the SSD obvioudly PS5 is half the latency and has its proprietary priority system. That enables the SSD to be integrated more closely into engine design. Xsex should achieve a similar, albeit less impactful solution.
Nevertmind the custom stuff, it’s not even a subtle difference between the two. The two are very different the closer to the metal one gets.
sendit
Member
geordiemp
Member
You think that all the extra IO processing and audio processing that has been announced on ps5 to free up ps5 CPU will mean in the future ps5 will be CPU bottlenecked compared to XSX.
Sorry dont agree at all, I think the opposite.
MasterCornholio
Member
Thanks for explaining. I do agree that the PS5 does.seem to have a better I/O. But I'm worried that 3rd parties won't take advantage of it.
MasterCornholio
Member
I have doubts on how much these consoles will push ray tracing. I have a feeling that they will use of some forms of Ray tracing instead of what we say in that Minecraft demo. That demo only proved to me that these systems are not capable of handling ray tracing like that in more complex games.
iJudged
Banned
Welp that's what I was looking for....smdh
Tulipanzo
Member
From what we've seen in UE5, devs are already working with incredibly high quality assets, but these are too big to load into memory efficiently. Nanite takes care of scaling those 8K textures dynamically.
Really, having a really fast SSD is one of the easiest ways you can improve dev workflow to make games look better; devs would have to go out of their way NOT to use it.
geordiemp
Member
Most game engines now use streaming tech, do you not think devs will not want their games to look as good as Sony's do on Thursday ? Do you really think that ?
UE5 is going fast streaming, you think devs want their games to look best possible ?
By the way, XSX will win games made for slow streaming and based on Jaguar, low memory assets. It will aslo be better at Ray tracing, so its a fair war.
But Xbox fans cant accept that, they expect to win everything, its going to be a long generation.
sendit
Member
I'm sure some minor logical changes to a games code base is necessary. Starting at 19:32, Cerny explains that their is minimal effort to take advantage of the PS5s custom I/O.
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geordiemp
Member
Using reconstruction to 4K and 60 FPS, neither console is powerful enough for full Ray tracing without killing everything else in the game.
I am fine with that, the lighting in UE5 demo is good enough for me.
ToadMan
Member
Like having a Gameplay reveal with no gameplay? That blew up in MS‘S face badly....
Or perhaps like launching a next gen console with no 1st party exclusives? That will blow up in MS’s face badly.
Or like running a tech demo that made everyone’s jaw drop .... oh that was PS5...
Yeah those are pieces of bait Sony are happy to let MS dangle. They’ll take them and say “thank you” lol
After doing so well, MS are choking when it’s actually coming to crunch time - that ain’t something Sony did....
LeVictorien
Banned
How much a difference do you think there will be?