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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Nope. Still July.

(Trigger warning for some of the regulars in here regarding the following source)


An Aaron Greenberg tweet, guys.



Just a quick side note, though. The first party event has always been planned for July, but they were supposedly going to do a monthly update thing, which obviously is not going to happen this month, so I'm guessing that's why some media might pick it up as a delay.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/05/05/xbox-2020-the-future-of-xbox/
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
It’s so strange to see how the SSD was seen as insignificant when the PS5 specs were fist released. Now it’s all anyone is talking about including Devs. How times change!
SSD was always talked about, but the speeds were unconfirmed. We also didn't know how complex their I/O setup was.

Either way, even if the specs were much closer, people would still talk about the SSD and I/O because it's much better on the PS5.
 

Moses85

Member

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Your post is just as guilty in reality. In comparing RTX 20xx discrete GPUs for the purposes of benchmarking, it assumes identical architecture (and therefore CU occupancy, which is why you don’t compare peak teraflops) and identical drivers and graphics APIs.

XSX and PS5 both have GPUs that are derived from AMD’s RNDA2 technology, but both machines will be using very different graphics APIs, and PS5’s GPU has the ability to keep its CUs loaded with work as changes to system memory pages invalidate parts of its working cache.

It’s systems and incremental changes like this between GTX 10xx and RTX20xx that improve CU occupancy and make comparing theoretically calculated peak teraflop figures irrelevant.

Games typically only achieve around 30-40% CU occupancy, with a lot of time a CU spent waiting on something else to finish, or for a memory fetch to fill its working cache so that it can do useful work.

PS5’s Coherency Engines and GPU cache scrubbers could contribute an average of mostly fuck all to CU occupancy, or something quite significant. It might vary based on game or game engine. We don’t know.

This isn’t saying PS5’s GPU is suddenly better. This isn’t even saying PS5’s GPU is equal or has even appreciably closed the gap, either.

This is saying that although both are RDNA2 based, there are hardware and architecture differences that directly affect CU occupancy.
There are graphics APIs unique to each manufacturer that also indirectly affect how efficiently those CUs will be utilised.

So it’s neither comparing a GTX 10xx to an RTX 20xx, nor comparing an RTX 20xx to an RTX 20xx using the same Windows drivers and DirectX API.

The answer to how much difference between the two GPUs in real world code there is for anyone not working on a multi-platform title with both dev-kits is:

“I don’t know”.

The rumours from such sources say it’s closer than ever. The earlier rumours seemed to say it was the opposite of what a naive reading of paper specifications would say.

I think it’s reasonable to say we don’t know but it’s likely XSX has the edge over all.

Comparisons to tightly controlled PC benchmarks where the only thing being changed in CUs and clock-speed is irrelevant. That isn’t the only difference between the two systems, or even the two GPUs.

Amazing post, as usual, but it's pretty realistic to say that XSX is a minor step over current gen so far with what's shown, it's been pretty shy with its offering and nothing has made us feel next gen.

July is pretty critical for Xbox, they either man up with their games or they'll end up worse than current gen.
 

pasterpl

Member
Marvel's Avengers screenshots, the PS5 version:

50034614552_f421da38f2_o.jpg


50034355776_29f86b47b0_o.jpg


Look at the insane draw distance!

50033815033_41b2c26344_o.jpg


50034614182_952e81fc80_o.jpg


The article on PlayStation Blog with bold highlights:

I became a serious game development hobbyist when I was a kid and I’ve worked as a professional game developer for the past 18 years. I’m now the Chief Technology Officer at Crystal Dynamics, where I am working with a brilliant and passionate development team on Marvel’s Avengers.

Throughout my life, there has been little that excites me as much as getting my hands on a next-generation video game console — and PS5 is no exception. I have had the tremendous pleasure and privilege of having a PS5 development kit on my desk for some time. When we received our first few kits, I rushed to put an engineering team on the task of creating a PS5 version of Marvel’s Avengers as quickly as possible. I wanted to push Foundation, our proprietary game engine, to its limits on PS5 and see what it could do. Take a look at what we’ve accomplished so far!

PS5 greatly lifts the performance and graphics bar for consoles. The new GPU allows us to increase our texture resolution, push a higher level of detail farther from the player, enhance our ambient occlusion, improve our anisotropic filtering and add a variety of new graphics features such as stochastic screen-space reflections with contact-aware sharpening.

If you’re a technophile like me, you enjoy having a bit of choice in how you leverage your cutting-edge console’s capability.
As gamers, we sometimes want every ounce of power put into extra graphics features to achieve the highest image quality possible. For this, Marvel’s Avengers will offer an enhanced graphics mode on PS5. At other times, we want the most fluid gameplay experience possible. For that, Marvel’s Avengers will offer a high framerate mode on PS5, which targets 60 FPS with dynamic 4K resolution.

The GPU and CPU improvements on PS5 are exciting, but even more exciting is the introduction of an ultra-high speed SSD with lightning fast load speeds. This is a transformative improvement in consoles that will reduce load times down to one or two seconds and enable real-time streaming of massive worlds at ridiculously fast speeds. Without any optimization work, the loading and streaming of Marvel’s Avengers improved by an order of magnitude on PS5. When optimization is complete, loading content will be nearly instant, allowing players to seamlessly jump into missions anywhere in the game world. And as Iron Man flies through content-rich levels, higher resolution textures and mesh will stream in instantly, maintaining the highest possible quality all the way to the horizon.

The new PS5 DualSense controller offers advanced haptics and resistance triggers, and the console itself offers enhanced 3D audio and new platform features that allow you to jump straight into the action. We have great ideas on ways to leverage these features in Marvel’s Avengers and are looking forward to seeing our players’ reactions.

At Crystal Dynamics, we are gamers and we have a gamer-first mentality. We want to make it easy for Marvel’s Avengers players to enjoy the additional features PS5 brings to the game. Therefore, we’re happy to announce that when you purchase Marvel’s Avengers for the PS4 platform, either digitally or on disc, and later upgrade to a PS5, you get the PS5 version of the game with all of its enhancements free of charge!

In addition, PS5 gamers can play Marvel’s Avengers online with PS4 gamers, so anyone can upgrade at any time and continue playing with friends on both platforms.

Marvel’s Avengers launches on September 4, 2020 and will be available on PS5 when the console launches Holiday 2020!



so are we now getting excited about cross-gen games?

/s
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
This is the same Russian journalist who first told about the PC version of Horizon:Zero Dawn
Djz0bod.png


aPFeqmS.png

Sony has been extremely generous and patient with most of its studios, maybe they should make faster output that many development problems has been made part of history going to PS5. Development should be better, but Sony is more than willing to spend even bigger as Jim Ryan said, so that BS concern isn't looking pretty in comparison:

"I think, to the extent that the technology enables the graphics side of it to become more interesting and life-like, [the games] will become slightly more human intensive and capital intensive to produce," Ryan notes. "So yes, we think there probably will be an increase in development budgets. We don't see it as being a massive increase, and that's why we want to do more faster than we have ever done before, to provide a fertile install base for people who make games to be able to monetise against. If we can keep pace with a likely increase in development costs, then the industry can continue to prosper."


6 years for Days Gone, 7 years for TLOU2, nearly 8-9 years for GT, 5 years for Uncharted 4. PS5 ease of development isn't just for fun, it's critical for making high quality games faster, which gamers would love as the majority of 3rd party offerings are shitty, half-baked fillers in between.
 
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K.N.W.

Member
That's some interesting catch! Thank you for the details.:messenger_clapping:
Please mind that I did study IT engineering but GPUs are not my field :) I'm still waiting Batman Arkham Asylum to finish download, so I can compare my stock 1080TI FE to a 1080 FE @ 2GHZ, to provide a better comparison, and check about the truth of my assertions :) Today my Fiber connection seems to have downgraded to a very slow DSL :S
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Please mind that I did study IT engineering but GPUs are not my field :) I'm still waiting Batman Arkham Asylum to finish download, so I can compare my stock 1080TI FE to a 1080 FE @ 2GHZ, to provide a better comparison, and check about the truth of my assertions :) Today my Fiber connection seems to have downgraded to a very slow DSL :S

Glad to have more people with technical back ground. If I continue at this rate I should be handed a certificate in I.T. with all the knowledge splashed here. :messenger_clapping: :lollipop_tears_of_joy:

Can't wait for your comparison! Just hope it wouldn't cost you too much time and efforts.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Yeah definitely. I'm saying what he wants from the system is basically the vision Microsoft first had for Xbox One. This isn't what Sony presented with the PS5 though, they are smarter than that

Actually the TV thing isn't a problem by itslef, I know some prefer watching Netflix and even youtube through PS4, I prefer watching netflix through the smart TV itself. But the tedious 24-hour check and get the games locked, enforced camera, the $100 gap compared to PS4, no game borrowing, and the shitty quote from Don that you shouldn't buy Xbox One if you don't have an internet!

First, maybe some people in the US don't know why MS went crazy with the 24-hour check and no borrowing, but the hidden story behind the mild success of Xbox 360 is due to piracy in many countries around the globe. Xbox became famous for some to play games for only 1-0.5 OMR ($2.6-1.3 USD) compared to PS3 that was some kind of a reality check to some with it being first pretty expensive and then solidified against piracy. Although PS3 outsold Xbox 360 by a significant margin here, xbox 360 was relevant for the first and only time here.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Actually the TV thing isn't a problem by itslef, I know some prefer watching Netflix and even youtube through PS4, I prefer watching netflix through the smart TV itself. But the tedious 24-hour check and get the games locked, enforced camera, the $100 gap compared to PS4, no game borrowing, and the shitty quote from Don that you shouldn't buy Xbox One if you don't have an internet!

First, maybe some people in the US don't know why MS went crazy with the 24-hour check and no borrowing, but the hidden story behind the mild success of Xbox 360 is due to piracy in many countries around the globe. Xbox became famous for some to play games for only 1-0.5 OMR ($2.6-1.3 USD) compared to PS3 that was some kind of a reality check to some with it being first pretty expensive and then solidified against piracy. Although PS3 outsold Xbox 360 by a significant margin here, xbox 360 was relevant for the first and only time here.
Yeah they were arrogant and thought they could start milking the gamer market. Happy most of that management is gone, and they went into the complete opposite direction.
 

Moses85

Member





They probably won't fall for that again, though. They surely know that they need to knock it out of the park to take away some momentum from Sony. Personally I think they will deliver a good presentation. I mean, they just have to.


Yes, shitty German Language adjustment 😎👍🏻
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
When i first originally saw the green light at the top on the first black revealed console i though damn that is cool. When i found out it was just a piece of plastic in green my heart sunk. I know its not the case but when ever i see that green part of the console all i think of now is "Cheap".

It's actually the inner color of the holes, a paint, which is a good touch IMO.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I think they are saving the back of the Console for the teardown so they can talk about it in depth. Unfortunately we don't know when that is yet. So yeah, perhaps there's some ports that need to be explained and can be done in that segment.

I was someone who was in belief about that Zenji Nishikawa interview/rumor regarding a Base and Pro model be released at launch simultaneously. Seems the two SKUs was true, just not a Pro. Honestly, I have a feeling somehow this might be a Console that runs through the entire generation with those two SKUs. If there was a Pro, I think the size would be the same.

Could you imagine a Pro and a Pro digital model?

I think Sony will push for PS5 Pro at least to sell 8K TV's, they're pretty connected to each. I would get an 8K by then, although wished that Sony's 8K were more reasonably priced to have them a try. Pretty superior pieces of mastery with eye-melting brightness!
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
VERY interesting interview that has been missed with King Jim Ryan:

jim-ryan-new-sony-interactive-entertainment-president-ceo.jpg


We wanted triple-A games that would fully demonstrate the horsepower of the machine,” Ryan told BBC. “But some of these smaller games are making very cool and innovative use of the new features of the console. So we allowed the show to give a sense of the sheer range of gameplay experience that will be available on PlayStation 5. And this is just the start. There are so many more games that we have in development.


All next-gen and cross-gen so far coming to PS5:

 
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FeiRR

Banned
Actually the TV thing isn't a problem by itslef, I know some prefer watching Netflix and even youtube through PS4, I prefer watching netflix through the smart TV itself.
It was a problem. Because of Kinect, X1 power was reduced to alleviate costs. Betting on dying technology (linear TV) meant that Microsoft was out of touch with reality. I don't think much changed. Now they bet on Netflix style games when people are already getting fed up with mediocre quality of rental service content.

As for watching things through PS4, if you had a shitty Android system in your TV, you'd prefer it too.
 
Am i the only one who wants to see Aaron Greenberg leaving Xbox ?

Yes. I like Greenberg showing us the truth. Its insights into whats going on over there & how they think. Typical MS fashion they want to do little work build something & let everyone support & build the platform. While they sit back & reap all the profits.

Greenberg gets us closer to the truth of xbox division.
 
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D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Am i the only one who wants to see Aaron Greenberg leaving Xbox ?
I believe he's just pretty bad at tweeting, and he needs more context and words to say what he wants. Most of the time in interviews he's pretty funny and comes across as a nice guy
 
Sony marketing is pretty good in brainwashing people 😉
Well, Cerny said the most requested feature from game developers for next gen consoles was an SSD. And yeah, you can say that was pure "brainwash" but since then we've had a lot of devs (both first and third party) saying that's what excites them most from the next gen machines so I think is safe to say Mark Cerny was telling the truth. That's not to say GPU or CPU upgrades are not important, I'm just saying that's what developers wanted the most and that's why is such a big deal
 
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Vae_Victis

Banned
Sony marketing is pretty good in brainwashing people 😉
Just so I understand you correctly, do Tim Sweeney and all the third party devs praising the PS5's SSD fall under "Sony marketing" or "brainwashed people"?

EDIT: Oh never mind, I just looked at your account and realized you're still going around the forum writing that the PS5 is a 9TF console. My mistake, keep on keeping on in Ignore Land.
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
6 years for Days Gone, 7 years for TLOU2, nearly 8-9 years for GT, 5 years for Uncharted 4. PS5 ease of development isn't just for fun, it's critical for making high quality games faster, which gamers would love as the majority of 3rd party offerings are shitty, half-baked fillers in between.

Insanely long development times. Would rather see smaller games released more frequently.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
It’s so strange to see how the SSD was seen as insignificant when the PS5 specs were fist released. Now it’s all anyone is talking about including Devs. How times change!
if we are being honest, so many of us didn’t even know how an ultra fast SSD would impact next-generation gaming, I remember a lot of people including PS fans shitting on Mark Cerny after the Road to PS5 talk because they thought the SSD could only impact things such as load times etc, it was a number of developers who came out in the months that followed that really vindicated and substantiated what Cerny was saying, Tim Sweeney and Unreal Engine 5 being really good examples.
 

xacto

Member
It's actually the inner color of the holes, a paint, which is a good touch IMO.

I really thought that was some kind of LED or some such... Still looks quite ok, but just as with the PS5, I wonder how fast the dust will settle in there, especially if kept vertically.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
Just finished TLOU2 (30 hours long). IMHO, I think it’s the greatest fucking video game I’ve ever played to date. It’s brutal, visceral and heartbreaking. And that ENDING, wow... I know there are other games coming out this year but I think this is an instant lock for GOTY.

10/10
Man, you are lying, there's no way someone would like this game, so just tell us how much ND has paid for your positive opinion?

I'm joking 😅, I also think TLOU2 is an amazing game and I hope we will get PS5 patch. 4K 60fps would be great.
 

Games Dean

Member
Just finished TLOU2 (30 hours long). IMHO, I think it’s the greatest fucking video game I’ve ever played to date. It’s brutal, visceral and heartbreaking. And that ENDING, wow... I know there are other games coming out this year but I think this is an instant lock for GOTY.

10/10
I don't want to stray too far off-topic, but I wholeheartedly agree. What an achievement. Still thinking about pretty much all the time and I beat it on Sunday.
 

zaitsu

Banned
if we are being honest, so many of us didn’t even know how an ultra fast SSD would impact next-generation gaming, I remember a lot of people including PS fans shitting on Mark Cerny after the Road to PS5 talk because they thought the SSD could only impact things such as load times etc, it was a number of developers who came out in the months that followed that really vindicated and substantiated what Cerny was saying, Tim Sweeney and Unreal Engine 5 being really good examples.
I think many of us here was Cerny worshippers day one.
 
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