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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Games Dean

Member
This game is going to be amazing. Happy the marketing campaign is starting,b really liked what they did last time with the hunt the truth podcast
Far be it from me to dampen anyone's hype but what makes you so confident in it? Have they actually shown any of the game yet? I'm just not hype for it after both Halo 4 and Halo 5 (campaigns) were very underwhelming. Maybe the reveal will rope me back in.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Amazing post, as usual, but it's pretty realistic to say that XSX is a minor step over current gen so far with what's shown, it's been pretty shy with its offering and nothing has made us feel next gen.

July is pretty critical for Xbox, they either man up with their games or they'll end up worse than current gen.

It'll be the same shit every gen when we say critical. Thyll push along with mediocre shit and just focus on online components. We shall see though.
 
Marvel's Avengers screenshots, the PS5 version:

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Look at the insane draw distance!

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The article on PlayStation Blog with bold highlights:

I became a serious game development hobbyist when I was a kid and I’ve worked as a professional game developer for the past 18 years. I’m now the Chief Technology Officer at Crystal Dynamics, where I am working with a brilliant and passionate development team on Marvel’s Avengers.

Throughout my life, there has been little that excites me as much as getting my hands on a next-generation video game console — and PS5 is no exception. I have had the tremendous pleasure and privilege of having a PS5 development kit on my desk for some time. When we received our first few kits, I rushed to put an engineering team on the task of creating a PS5 version of Marvel’s Avengers as quickly as possible. I wanted to push Foundation, our proprietary game engine, to its limits on PS5 and see what it could do. Take a look at what we’ve accomplished so far!

PS5 greatly lifts the performance and graphics bar for consoles. The new GPU allows us to increase our texture resolution, push a higher level of detail farther from the player, enhance our ambient occlusion, improve our anisotropic filtering and add a variety of new graphics features such as stochastic screen-space reflections with contact-aware sharpening.

If you’re a technophile like me, you enjoy having a bit of choice in how you leverage your cutting-edge console’s capability.
As gamers, we sometimes want every ounce of power put into extra graphics features to achieve the highest image quality possible. For this, Marvel’s Avengers will offer an enhanced graphics mode on PS5. At other times, we want the most fluid gameplay experience possible. For that, Marvel’s Avengers will offer a high framerate mode on PS5, which targets 60 FPS with dynamic 4K resolution.

The GPU and CPU improvements on PS5 are exciting, but even more exciting is the introduction of an ultra-high speed SSD with lightning fast load speeds. This is a transformative improvement in consoles that will reduce load times down to one or two seconds and enable real-time streaming of massive worlds at ridiculously fast speeds. Without any optimization work, the loading and streaming of Marvel’s Avengers improved by an order of magnitude on PS5. When optimization is complete, loading content will be nearly instant, allowing players to seamlessly jump into missions anywhere in the game world. And as Iron Man flies through content-rich levels, higher resolution textures and mesh will stream in instantly, maintaining the highest possible quality all the way to the horizon.

The new PS5 DualSense controller offers advanced haptics and resistance triggers, and the console itself offers enhanced 3D audio and new platform features that allow you to jump straight into the action. We have great ideas on ways to leverage these features in Marvel’s Avengers and are looking forward to seeing our players’ reactions.

At Crystal Dynamics, we are gamers and we have a gamer-first mentality. We want to make it easy for Marvel’s Avengers players to enjoy the additional features PS5 brings to the game. Therefore, we’re happy to announce that when you purchase Marvel’s Avengers for the PS4 platform, either digitally or on disc, and later upgrade to a PS5, you get the PS5 version of the game with all of its enhancements free of charge!

In addition, PS5 gamers can play Marvel’s Avengers online with PS4 gamers, so anyone can upgrade at any time and continue playing with friends on both platforms.

Marvel’s Avengers launches on September 4, 2020 and will be available on PS5 when the console launches Holiday 2020!


Who do they think they are. Every expert at neogaf (which means pretty much every user) knows this SSD will only work for an extra second or two faster loadtimes than XSex's SSD. Not anything else, not a big deal.
 

Tiago07

Member
What makes people think that First Party XSX games can't or won't scale to graphical settings that push the performance below 60FPS?

They'll almost certainly going to be adding things like Ray Tracing for instance.

Look at Control on PC or any game with current RT support. Or imagine if Rockstar added some RT to RDR2. RDR2 is a game based on an engine that scales to the PS3/360 generation but even without RT can bring a high end PC to below 60FPS.
You're right, graphics in general (textures and assets) have more problem with budget than the power of the machine. And all of these things you said I agree too. But I think the 60fps narrative is better to them than high fidelity graphics at 30fps. But I don't know, the Halo Infinity graphics are already crazy and at 60fps in 4K is better, than simple do some Reflections RT and target at 30fps. I would expect MS market in DirectML their type of DLSS (which is the most crazy GPU tech in PC I think). Let's see I can't conclude nothing about MS now.
 
If MS can get games looking as good as Sony's but have them at 60fps instead of 30fps, that's a demonstrable power difference. But this is only my opinion!

Just not possible.
For the game to “look as good” as Sony’s it would need the same resolution and same general image construction and processing done to it. To be able to do that in half the time would require 200% the GPU minimum, not 15%.

If Microsoft are targeting 60 FPS with their first party titles, they just cannot look as good “frame for frame” as a PS5 (or XSX) game at 30 FPS.

Image quality is directly tied to frame rate. Roughly speaking, a GPU has enough budget to do a finite amount of processing per second. If you chop that second into 60 parts instead of 30, the amount of processing you can do per frame halves.

XSX first-party titles at 60 FPS cannot look as good as PS5 first-party titles at 30 FPS, given the same talent and art style etc

A game designed for XSX will choose between 30 or 60 FPS depending on what the developer is targeting. Fast paced shooter games like COD and DOOM will always be 60 FPS, even on PS3. Games like Uncharted or whatever Xbox has like it will always target quality per frame and target the minimum of 30 FPS.

Games developed on lesser platforms running on newer ones can target 60 FPS even on originally 30 FPS titles as there’s rarely budget to rework image quality.

This happened a lot on PS4 Pro, Xbox One X. This happened with The Last of Us: Remastered as it came from PS3 to PS4.

For that reason I think XSX will get a lot of Xbox One titles with not only a modest image quality buff, but easy 60 FPS and 4K.

I personally don’t see this as a bad thing or insult. Per frame graphics aren’t everything.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Far be it from me to dampen anyone's hype but what makes you so confident in it? Have they actually shown any of the game yet? I'm just not hype for it after both Halo 4 and Halo 5 (campaigns) were very underwhelming. Maybe the reveal will rope me back in.
Gameplay wise, movement, shooting etc. Halo 5 was actually amazing, I also liked the story, and multiplayer it's basically top 3 when it comes to fps this gen. Level design single player wasn't that great, and opponents could be more diverse and SMARTER. The AI of teammates also wasn't that good.

Microsoft and 343i are a team that learns from mistakes. That's where my hope comes from. Halo 5 was a solid 85 for me, and I believe Halo Infinite (learning from mistakes) should easily be a +90 game again
 

saintjules

Member

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You're right, graphics in general (textures and assets) have more problem with budget than the power of the machine. And all of these things you said I agree too. But I think the 60fps narrative is better to them than high fidelity graphics at 30fps. But I don't know, the Halo Infinity graphics are already crazy and at 60fps in 4K is better, than simple do some Reflections RT and target at 30fps. I would expect MS market in DirectML their type of DLSS (which is the most crazy GPU tech in PC I think). Let's see I can't conclude nothing about MS now.
Yeah not really speaking to what would actually be better, just what they'll do.

The same could be said for a next-gen only game though. Most games fundamentally aren't going to be much different than last gen.. because they won't need to be. So whether cross-gen or not if someone is pushing a game down to 30FPS it's because they are choosing some level of fidelity over performance.
 

Vae_Victis

Banned
I found it weird that when the PS5 hardware reveal trailer was put on YouTube it was only available in 1080p 30fps. And when I watched it again today, it was now in 4k 60fps. How did this happen? The view count is same as before yet it now has 4k version



YouTube was probably processing The video.
This seems unlikely to me, since the video would have certainly been uploaded much more in advance by Sony and only made public at the correct time (but processing happens when you upload the video, not when you publish it).

YouTube can alter a video after the fact without changing URL and metadata, although it's an option that is not made available for normal users and therefore it's not widely known. It happened for example a few years back when some music bands and labels wanted to replace very old music videos they had uploaded back in the day in 360p or 480p with HD versions, and the videos were simply replaced with the newer versions without the old links or any of the views/likes/comments disappearing.

Since the whole videos is a 3D animation (and a pretty long and complex one at that) it's possible Sony only had a low-quality, 30-fps version available in time for the stream (since that's what they needed for that anyway), but later they had the 3D artists deliver a higher quality one to put on YouTube.
 
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Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member
Xbox Series X Has Resolved Many of the Issues with Current-Gen, Says Bloober Team

Jacek Zieba (producer):

The biggest issue was tech, how we can do the things we want to do, and for the current gen we started developing the game with some ideas as a base. But then we thought, 'Okay, this generation is not going to handle it.' Then Xbox Series X came in and it was like, 'Maybe that will work'. We don't feel there are many boundaries now. With the SSD, when you transition between worlds, there is no loading time - you are there, transitioned. No loading times means better immersion.

Wojciech Piejko (lead game designer):

Xbox Series X has resolved many of the problems with the current generation that we had. We were able to deliver on the current gen, but it would not be the same game, the vision would not be fulfilled.

Jacek Zieba:

We don't want to take any prisoners. We want to create the game as we see it, and we think the next generation will be the perfect place for it.


 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Wow ... do we really need 8K ??? IMO if PS5Pro do exist in future the goal should be 4K 60 with decent quality of RT.

I need 8K, personally. The things that are making me wait are the insane prices, lack of 8K content. I watched 8K content on 8K TV's, it's way better than 4K, ridiculously sharp! It's great for photo/video editing, especially photos, as it's technically a 33.2 megapixel tv which can show more flaws than you normally see in less density screens. 4K should look better on 8K as well, so 4K@60 can be standardized for PS5 Pro with 8K version if possible, but you need to produce 4K@120fps for 8K@30fps, or 4K@240fps for 8K@60fps (GT7?).
 
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I finished TLOU2 yesterday but I'm not going to discuss the game itself, story, etc. because it's offtopic here. However, I'd like to share some findings on the technical side that I noticed while playing:

- ND engine (does it even have a name? I think I've missed it) already uses streaming a lot and, I think, loads only those objects and their textures that are needed in the frustum. For example: I was in a small room (let's say it was a room, to omit spoilers), focusing on objects in front of me (textures were okay) then I turned towards the exit and back, then I noticed a texture pop-up. While I tried to replicate that error, I couldn't repeat it. That'd mean the game shuffles assets all the time, not only when you enter/exit a certain area.

- I haven't noticed any frame drops in game. I tried to turn the camera around, especially in places where you could expect performance drops (like in front of mirrors), couldn't get it. To my eye, the game is rock solid 30 FPS.

- Sound design is phenomenal. There are thousands of different samples that play around you and you can actually listen to enemies not only through the visual "listening mode" but also by yourself. Footsteps on various surfaces differ, rain drops on different materials give different sounds, guns sound incredibly. It was a pleasure to play and great immersion. However, I didn't get the up/down awareness of sound, just the 360 panorama on a plane. I think my setup was wrong (settings in game and headphones with VSS). My headset is a bit malfunctioning right now but I hope it lasts till November so I can get a new one. If anyone can comment on that, please do. Speaking of sound, I noticed something interesting in the game menu. If you scroll down the sound section, there's that last entry which is inactive. Is it waiting for Tempest?

e61c7mN.jpg


- Graphically speaking, this game is a league of its own. Simply the best animations I've ever seen and the best material implementation (hair looks like hair, fabric looks real, wet concrete walls shine exactly as they should). You can notice a lot of reflections, not only mirrors but various metal surfaces. I think those will be patched into RT for the PS5 version. I also think that this phenomenal texture quality is due to the fact that they're prepared for higher resolution in PS5 and downscaled to be squeezed through the antique HDD.

I'm definitely going to play it again on PS5, with higher difficulty setting (let's hope new CPU will allow enemies to be smarter) and in quality mode. I didn't feel any need for a higher frame rate in this particular game. I think we've seen the last of PS4's capabilities. Time for a change.
Honestly, in this type of single player games you don't need higher than 30 fps. The game looks great, but characters sometimes look funny in real gameplay section specifically when out in the open levels. The character models improve alot in closed spaces. Reflections are fake but look good enough.
Anyway, I still believe Horizon is the most impressive game this generation. The graphics in that fully open world with many objects and creatures rooming around is beyond anything.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Just finished TLOU2 (30 hours long). IMHO, I think it’s the greatest fucking video game I’ve ever played to date. It’s brutal, visceral and heartbreaking. And that ENDING, wow... I know there are other games coming out this year but I think this is an instant lock for GOTY.

10/10

I doubt any of Ghost of Tsushima or Cyberpunk 2077 would stand a chance against it. To me, it's an obvious 2020 GOTY! One of the greatest games of all times.
 
Who do they think they are. Every expert at neogaf (which means pretty much every user) knows this SSD will only work for an extra second or two faster loadtimes than XSex's SSD. Not anything else, not a big deal.

I know that Avengers game will probably be a pile of crap but I'm more interested in what the dev was saying about the SSD. It seems it is really easy to utilise fully from his words, in start contrast to the silly idea that only first party devs can really put it to use outside fast loading times.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I found it weird that when the PS5 hardware reveal trailer was put on YouTube it was only available in 1080p 30fps. And when I watched it again today, it was now in 4k 60fps. How did this happen? The view count is same as before yet it now has 4k version



That's insane! I think they have the privilege to replace it with higher quality video as a major company. If they reupload the event in 4K I'll watch it again!
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Tom from Moore's Law is Dead just casually dropped "Sony is planning a surprise event for July, right next to Microsoft's event" on his newest podcast.

If TimDog is a 0 for reliability and Jason Shreier is a 10, Tom seems to be around a 5. I've only listened to him for the past two months, but he does seem to have some insider credibility.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
YouTube was probably processing The video.

I doubt it, it doesn't take that long. Probably around 10-15 minutes is more than enough to process 4K videos from my experience. I think it's been replaced, I hope the reveal gets replaced as well with 4K@60fps to rewatch it.
 
Tom from Moore's Law is Dead just casually dropped "Sony is planning a surprise event for July, right next to Microsoft's event" on his newest podcast.

If TimDog is a 0 for reliability and Jason Shreier is a 10, Tom seems to be around a 5. I've only listened to him for the past two months, but he does seem to have some insider credibility.
Well that designer dude said we would see PS5's UI very soon, so it could be true.
 
Tom from Moore's Law is Dead just casually dropped "Sony is planning a surprise event for July, right next to Microsoft's event" on his newest podcast.

If TimDog is a 0 for reliability and Jason Shreier is a 10, Tom seems to be around a 5. I've only listened to him for the past two months, but he does seem to have some insider credibility.
Tom I would say is far better than a 5 for reliability. It’s possible the surprise Sony event for July he talks about is the same State of Play that Jeff Grubb said was pencilled in for August.

Just listened to Tom’s latest Video, if I picked it up right he was asking AMD about the rumour that the Geometry Engine in the PS5 might appear in RDNA3.

Also as much as it pains me to say it, I would also not say Timdog is a 0 in reliability. I can not understand it but Xbox management actually game with him and Albert Panello actually told me he enjoys chatting with him.
 
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