DoctaThompson
Banned
I just lost my shit after seeing that. You owe me a drink for that.Or maybe he said "NO" meaning if i answer that i'm busted, what do you think ?
... and you believe him
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Microsoft: We Could Have Used Variable Clocks for Xbox Series X, But We’re Not Interested in TFLOPS Numbers
- Thread starter sonomamashine
- Start date
sonomamashine
Member
Calm down son, it's just a plastic box.
geordiemp
Member
I am calm, I like discssion on technical points, but I guess I stand no chance in this thread tonight.
Just ad hominem and calling. Nobody has discussed why optimisation is harder, or indeed what additional clocks could be pushed, or how did Sony get to 2.23 other than lying. Its poinless.
This place is like n4g.
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DoctaThompson
Banned
I personally believe both consoles will have their own pros and cons. Neither console will get all the checkmarks in a checklist of specs. There are some who just don't understand that, and take it really personal. It's not that serious guys.
But at the same time, this is hilarious to watch some of y'all have meltdowns if their company of choice is bested by the "enemies" company of choice
But at the same time, this is hilarious to watch some of y'all have meltdowns if their company of choice is bested by the "enemies" company of choice
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
What's that saying, something along the lines of don't argue with a ........................... Yep your trying to take me there. Your boring me now. So goodbye.
Drunkensamurai
Member
Only people that care about those videos are fanboys.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Nah, this is serious business.
He said 3 pages ago he was out, yet here he is defending his beloved Sony from the evil Xbox and PC fans in every other other post. What a trooper.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
You are one of the worst offenders of baiting people with passive aggressive memes and gifs. So knock it off with the narrative that this place is somehow like that cesspool when you do nothing but antagonize others.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Not really in many ways N4G is worse.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
I'm a pan-sexual.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Reported.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
No it's just a normal gaming forum thread, You have to understand when you step out of your next gen safe space and don't have all your Sony loyalists to back you up opinions other than the hive mind narrative that permeates that thread are permitted.
sonomamashine
Member
Potato Chip PRO
Member
I am very happy that MS actually decided to create powerful machine. I'm hoping with their too much talking, it won't bite them in the ass again in the long run. Exciting times to look forward!!
sonyfifa
Member
U would think that when a deal is made the name of the buyer is advertized somewhere anywhereI will let Tim sweeny answer....
Now that was funny.
Its not
Shin
Banned
Interesting way to put things, Cerny is overrated and Knack is proof of that IMO, further more engineering consists of handful of people not a single person.
He gets the spotlight because the team probably doesn't speak English since it's done by Japanese in Tokyo.
To say a person is "just head" of any department is quite belittling and really poor choice of words, whether you like the guy or not.
A person doesn't become head of anything without sufficient experience (theory or hands-on), they are a leader and the go to person the team goes to for answers.
In short he/she/they need to have answers and guides the chief engineer, which in turn guides the rest of his team - hierarchy, I could say Phil > Cerny, but I won't
Lastly and to be on topic,
Given Microsoft's past consoles, the architectures they choose in the past, their core and founding business, they would have more knowledge of PC like components than Sony.
One could say it's why the first Xbox used the CPU/GPU it did - there's no need to discuss this as everything speaks for itself and is indisputable.
They also have closer ties with AMD which again is because of their business, yet here we have a company and it's fans trying to make it sound like they've reinvented the wheel.
Be it the SSD, I/O or variable clocks, etc etc, here we have a a company which sold off it's PC branch (Vaio) because they couldn't innovate/cut it and got forced out of the PC market.
The problem with shit rolling from a mountain is that it can only go downwards, if you're believable and you tell someone something that doesn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about they'll believe it.
Cerny is definitely a salesman, I would know because I was the #1 for a large telecom company here in the Netherlands (only took me 6 months instead of a whole year and vs. veterans that worked 15+ years for the company).
Case in point, I know a sales-pitch when I see one, what's worse is that people choose not to remain open minded and decide for themselves they choose to run with what they were told because they have the impression it is true.
The result is several threads/posts repeating what they were told by Sony, but I wonder how many have knowledge of what they are discussing?
To make matters worse, in the past few months suddenly Teraflops (absolute power <--- READ 2x) suddenly doesn't matter or tells the whole story, etc etc.
Variable clocks > fixed clocks, despite being the norm for decades now - all because Cerny is the second coming of jeebus christ (thus certain fans).
You'd think that the actual hardware manufacturer's whose bread and butter lies in this field (nVidia, AMD, Intel and all the third parties doing their own editions) would have came up this earth shattering idea.
But nope this one guy (Cerny) who didn't study nor graduated engineering (to my knowledge) solved a problem all the engineers in this world couldn't with just 1 console - truly sounds credible, don't you think?
This version at least sounds plausible because their (Microsoft) track record in the console space, scratch that their entire business allows them and has allowed them to have that knowledge.
They skipped it though and probably for good reason, if you keep acting like a fool and have low expectation a company will threat you as such and when you could get more performance for your money you end up getting less.
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Sony at least always had the sales and games to back it up. After last gen and the second half of the gen before that, Microsoft has no business being cocky.
the_master
Member
If the game runs at variable clock speed in the console, you'll have to optimize it acordingly, this means that some situations will lower the cpu or gpu budget. I am not sure how much more complicated it will be to optimise though
Goes both ways. Xbox fan boys were saying power doesn't matter as much as games and PS4 has no games. Then PS smoked them the rest of the gen in games and that talk disappeared.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
It wasn't a monetary agreement, but they obviously agreed to co-market. It's not like this was an impromptu event.
Ass of Can Whooping
Banned
Developers can optimize their games using a fixed profile. They don't even need to pay attention to variable clocks
GHG
Gold Member
You must be new to all of this.
If there's one thing they've never lacked, it's confidence. That's part of the problem.
Dr Bass
Member
As someone who has been an engineer for a long time and is currently the "tech lead" at my place of work, I can say this is absolutely not the case whatsoever. I've worked under completely incompetent people who got to their position for various reasons. Many times you have will have completely non-technical people leading engineering teams.
I can unequivocally say "Cerny > Phil" when it comes to engineering. I also guarantee you people aren't going to Phil for engineering answers.
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the_master
Member
Of course they will start by optimizing the biggest offenders first, ignoring final hardware and whatnot, but there will be some work put into profiling on the final hardware with variable clock speed and it may be a bit harder to find proper repro for spikes. Then they may need to look at this spikes and figure some ways of dealing with them.
Maybe they find some generic solutions (dynamic res, dynamic ratlytrace fidelity, etc...) and then it would be almost trivial. But it seems that there may be some more work
So many developers have come out and explicitly said it’s a breeze to develop on ps5. Not Xbox x. This engineer comes says the opposite and doesn’t even elaborate. Something is missing here.
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Lort
Banned
And yet xbox one x is better in every way than ps4 pro, and the x sex will be better than PS5.
Why they use the awkward smarmy Cerny to showcase anything is odd...
Phil tells it like it is .. and as usual xbox has the better machine.
Shin
Banned
I've seen you advertise yourself in the PS5 variable clocks thread with the same phrase.
Whatever that doesn't work gets replaced, hence hierarchy, Phil is working as the turn around(s) is well known fans.
In a straight up fight Cerny would know more when it comes to engineering, that's not up for debate nor did I debate that.
Though the smooth voice they love so much is what they should also be careful of.
DaleinCalgary
Member
We are gonna have this shit going on all the way to Crackdown 4 aren't we.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Not exactly looking to jump into the fray one way or the other, but the entirety of human history is basically one person coming up with a brand new way to do things and changing everything.
An individual can have a tremendous influence on the course of things, especially given the tendency for most of us to get stuck in our thinking, the old ways.
7 years? Did you miss the second half of the 360 era? Its way more than 7 years
Knitted Knight
Banned
Xplainin
Banned
It is pretty black and white really.
Do you think it would be better for the PS5 to have fixed clocks for the 10.25tflops? Or do you think it's better to have the variable clock?
Of course it's better to have the full clocks available at all times, regardless of how intensive the game is.
Thats pretty much all he is saying.
Do you think it would be better for the PS5 to have fixed clocks for the 10.25tflops? Or do you think it's better to have the variable clock?
Of course it's better to have the full clocks available at all times, regardless of how intensive the game is.
Thats pretty much all he is saying.
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MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Phil Spencer is gonna be held responsible for creating possibly the biggest GAF bait thread of the summer with this one
Aceofspades
Banned
Sustained clock and performance*
*except for RAM
and an entire Lockhart console !
*except for RAM
and an entire Lockhart console !
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Shin
Banned
Can, doesn't mean they have, as I've said in this thread and others.
I like his voice just like others, yet it's precisely that tool that can blind people, on top of that a good product speak for itself.
A bad product will be defended from all invested parties, ex-contractors, chief engineers, owner, sub-division, publishers, engine owners, other invested parties, fans, etc etc.
This launch is messy, too many mixed messages, muddied waters, uncertainties and it has nothing to do with COVID but rather the choices that were and are being made IMO.
It's not all peachy even for Microsoft, their Series S/Lockhart is causing people to have doubts and bring it's own uncertainties.
As someone that never owned an Xbox (tried Halo 1 long ago on my ex's console - did not like it), the software problem still persists from where I'm standing.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Banned
So what are we arguing here then? Fixed clocks are better than variable clocks (obviously if you can ignore the reality) or the XSX direction using fixed clocks is better than the PS5s direction using variable clocks? Because those are two different arguments
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MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
My dude, please read about Mark Cerny and his history in the gaming industry.
The dude is a legit wizkid when it comes to programming and technical systems architechture.
The PS4 is proof of his skills as a systems architect and no one is saying the Xbox Series X engineers are inferior (12>10). To say he's just a salesman is not fair at all because his work and career prove otherwise.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
"MS we aren't interested in TF numbers"
Nonstop mentions of 12TF says otherwise.
Nonstop mentions of 12TF says otherwise.
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NoMoChokeSJ
Banned
MS.. "Sky is blue today"
SonyGAF... "MS is so cocky. They don't have a reason to be cocky. How dare they state fact? Yesterday they said the sky was gray.... It can't be gray and blue.. cocky MS!!!".
SonyGAF you guys come off as insecure about was MS is bringing by acting butthurt by every out of context quote posted on these forums.
SonyGAF... "MS is so cocky. They don't have a reason to be cocky. How dare they state fact? Yesterday they said the sky was gray.... It can't be gray and blue.. cocky MS!!!".
SonyGAF you guys come off as insecure about was MS is bringing by acting butthurt by every out of context quote posted on these forums.
Shin
Banned
I have and my response is based with that in mind, I do not see him as a messiah like some do that's a difference we'll might have to agree to disagree on.
Out of everything that he "did", what stuck to me all this time is no system wide super-sampling and how shitty AF looked in early PS4 games, again different people different take.
This is slowly becoming a Sony too thread...
Hawking Radiation
Member
I seriously dislike this people referring to others as 'kiddo' and 'son'
Who and what the fuck are you? Are you not able to have proper discussion without trying to belittle others?
Does calling others 'kiddo' make you more mature. GTFO with that horseshit.
You will have a very short stay on these forums if you're going to post that rubbish.
Reported.
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Dr Bass
Member
Xbox One X also had a higher price tag in mind when designing it, came out a year later, and it was an utter failure at release (though I did buy one). They practically couldn't give them away. Look at how many package deals and discounts they attempted to clear out stock. I think they basically gave up on it right? It just doesn't move units. If you're willing to have a higher BOM than a competitor then of course you can spend more on performance parts. What on earth does that have to do with the technical acumen of Cerny vs Spencer? I don't think you understand how this stuff works or gets made, in the slightest.
The XSX will be better than the PS5 in some ways, and worse in other ways. As a complete package PS5 appears to be the better overall machine. At least IMO. I'd take the small graphics difference with the massive advantage in data access any day of the week, and I've explained why in other threads. People looking at one spec (TFLOPS, yeah!), while completing dismissing another one because they think loading data isn't that big of a deal are completely technically ignorant. And that's ok. As a consumer it's not your job to understand this stuff. But I think we've seen a lot more devs saying they are excited for PS5 than anyone expressing excitement for working on the XSX. Am I wrong here? I think the reason why is data storage isn't "sexy" in that it doesn't draw images on the screen and games have been marketed as graphics, graphics, graphics for decades. For people making these things and who actually program, the kind of performance Sony is talking about is hugely exciting. Waaaaaay more so than a 15% difference in flop calculation potential. I mean give me a break.
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Leyasu
Banned
No, if you look at what he wrote, he is basically saying that they are comfortable with where they are already. No need to push things higher.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm wondering if it's possible to have fixed clocks with a fixed power budget.