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[Vaelka]

Microsoft is so transparently jealous. If your that confident in your engineering decisions then let your exclusive games do the talking.

Wait never mind... I understand Microsoft carry on then.

Oh come the hell on lol.
Sony has been bragging like crazy about their super deluxe ninja warrior 1337 fancy SSD and can't stop jerking themselves off about their exclusives.
But Microsoft says anything and people are all like '' WHY ARE U BRAGGING MICROSOFT!? ''.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I'm waiting for that Georgie guy to arrive, and tell us everything, Master Cerny taught him last night. I love reading how something negative, can be spun around to something positive, and even better than the original. "Consuming Sony digital food is superior to real food, because you have the option to purchase the DLC appetizer!" Wtf?!

Hey hey, Georgie is a website treasure. One of the best troll engineers that's graduated from the NeoGAF School of Engineering with a minor is Guessimation.

 

[sonomamashine]

I seriously dislike this people referring to others as 'kiddo' and 'son'

Who and what the fuck are you? Are you not able to have proper discussion without trying to belittle others?

Does calling others 'kiddo' make you more mature. GTFO with that horseshit.


You will have a very short stay on these forums if you're going to post that rubbish.

Reported.

I agree, but you see "son" i used is a response to what he said to another member which is "KIDDO" which is immature, you are in a hurry to attack me (i know what team you stand for) and missed the fact that he EDITED his own message because at first HE said KIDDO to another member and i catch'd it before him EDITING it.
Now the way you're acting is very immature, you should focus more on reading before judging me.

 

[Xplainin]

So what are we arguing here then? Fixed clocks are better than variable clocks (obviously if you can ignore the reality) or the XSX direction using fixed clocks is better than the PS5s direction using variable clocks? Because those are two different arguments

Its nothing about direction, it's simply a case that it's better to have fixed clocks than variable.
I'm not sure how that is in anyway shocking or incorrect.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

I have and my response is based with that in mind, I do not see him as a messiah like some do that's a difference we'll might have to agree to disagree on.

Fair enough, agreed to disagree as well

 

[Dnice1]

Nice to hear comments from an MS engineer about how it is to develop on a ps5 dev kit he does not have access to. How would he know lol

I think I would rather hear from engineers that do have ps5 dev kits.

You really think Microsoft doesn't have access to a PS5 dev kit? I'd bet both Microsoft and Sony have access to one another's dev kits and have examined them, took them apart and laid them out across the table. These are billion and trillion dollar companies. Getting "access" isn't hard. Also those kits have been sent out to 3rd parties big and small. I'm quite sure Mojang (Minecraft) have theirs by now.

 

[Leyasu]

Rumored Tflops were basically the only thing to go by as far as PS5 was concerned. So obviously that was pretty much all there was to talk about.

Lol, this is pure gold

For months the sony fans were slapping themselves on the back after Andrew Reiner claimed that the PS5 was a 13TF monster.

On the other place in particular it was always.

"But Andrew said this"
Or
"But Klee said that"

Once the figures came out, after a spouting TFs non-stop from feb 2013 until the xbone x and until Cerny confirmed the Github nightmare was real. Sony fans have become a horde of SSD, I/O preachers, that pretend to look down their noses at TF talk. Now the excuses a flying left and right as they scramble to distance themselves from the very thing that excited them the most.

All of these next gen speculation threads should be archived. So when the new consoles get announced in 2027, we can watch the fans flip-flop like fish out of water again if their console gets trumped by the other in certain areas.

 

[sendit]

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Phil Spencer is gonna be held responsible for creating possibly the biggest GAF bait thread of the summer with this one

The bait gets more and more complicated. I love it.

We got two sides warring and baiting each other to catch bans. Never felt more like old NeoGaf or Era before.

Shit is hilarious.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Its nothing about direction, it's simply a case that it's better to have fixes clocks than variable.
I'm not sure how that is in anyway shocking or incorrect.

Look at the thread title. It's all about direction.

Like yeah, being able to achieve your desired results 100% of the time is ideal, like with anything in life. But that's a trivial statement to make.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

My dude, please read about Mark Cerny and his history in the gaming industry.

The dude is a legit wizkid when it comes to programming and technical systems architechture.

The PS4 is proof of his skills as a systems architect and no one is saying the Xbox Series X engineers are inferior (12>10). To say he's just a salesman is not fair at all because his work and career prove otherwise.

Calling him a salesman is like calling Phil an engineer.

Nobody should. And both have over-promised and spoken out of their ass in their own respective fields in the past without needing to confuse their two jobs.

 

[SleepDoctor]

I seriously dislike this people referring to others as 'kiddo' and 'son'

Who and what the fuck are you? Are you not able to have proper discussion without trying to belittle others?

Does calling others 'kiddo' make you more mature. GTFO with that horseshit.


You will have a very short stay on these forums if you're going to post that rubbish.

Reported.

Doesn't call out his bff from the spec thread but he'll quote Sona lol. Another fanboy that has me on ignore but just pointing out the irony.

 

[Abear21]

If history is any indication....Sony going out on a limb with tech that’s harder to program for and MS having the more powerful and dev friendly console is nothing new!

I don’t know a ton about hardware but having a fixed cpu/gpu speed seems easier to optimize for?

Just queue the games to back this up! I’m looking at you Flight Simulator, just show us the goods why so prude!

 

[Xplainin]

Look at the thread title. It's all about direction.

Like yeah, being able to achieve your desired results 100% of the time is ideal, like with anything in life. But that's a trivial statement to make.

But a correct one. No big deal. He gets asked a question and he answers it.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I seriously dislike this people referring to others as 'kiddo' and 'son'

Who and what the fuck are you? Are you not able to have proper discussion without trying to belittle others?

Does calling others 'kiddo' make you more mature. GTFO with that horseshit

Agreed, passive aggressive warriors need to chill. Though you quoted the wrong person on the "kiddo" line. Just saying.

 

[Jigga117]

Thats funny if they are good at designing the system. Why the split ram? And for the io system ps5 io solution probably can do more then just texture work or loading speeds

That’s all you got??? really?

 

[MarkMe2525]

The Xbox narrative is bizarre, it all over the place. They have been bragging about TFLOPs number ever since it was announced and especially when the TFLOPs of PS5 was revealed. What made them suddenly not interested in TFLOPs anymore? Games?

He clearly said they were not interested in moving to variable clocks to push their tf advantage even higher. I actually think you know this as you read the same paragraph I did. No doubt they are still flexing on their current tf advantage they have without resorting to variable clocks.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

But a correct one. No big deal. He gets asked a question and he answers it.

That still doesn't change the fact that there would have been benefits to them implementing a variable clock over the fixed clock they opted for.

Which is my point. In the real world, fixed clocks > variable clocks is false narrative

 

[Kenpachii]

Microsoft opted to keep its console's clock rates fixed, Sony went with the bold choice of using variable frequencies for both CPU and GPU, a decision that made the PS5's 10.28 TFLOPs figure feel misleading according to our own colleagues from Hardware as it only refers to the 'best-case scenarios' when there is no downclocking involved.

In a new interview published on Spanish site Xataka, Director of Program Management for Xbox Series X Jason Ronald said that Microsoft could have easily used the same approach to reach a higher theoretical TFLOPS figure, but that would have made it harder for developers to optimize their games.


The Microsoft executive also suggested that the mere I/O speed of the Xbox Series X (which is inferior to that of the PlayStation 5, according to the official specifications) doesn't tell the full story.

Microsoft: We Could Have Used Variable Clocks for Xbox Series X, But We're Not Interested in TFLOPS Numbers

Microsoft's Jason Ronald said that the Xbox Series X could have used variable clocks like the PS5, but the company isn't looking to boast higher TFLOPS.

wccftech.com

Hmmm interesting.

He's completely right on this front. Sony is heavily misleading with its 10,3tflop claim which it cannot sustain always just for PR reasons.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Microsoft is so transparently jealous. If your that confident in your engineering decisions then let your exclusive games do the talking.

Wait never mind... I understand Microsoft carry on then.

Some say jealousy is just confused admiration.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

He's completely right on this front. Sony is heavily misleading with its 10,3tflop claim which it cannot sustain always just for PR reasons.

Are they even advertising 10.3 sustained in their marketing?

Not mention that site is full of baseless fud

 

[Mister Wolf]

I think it's safe to say Halo Infinite will be the most visually impressive* next gen game of 2020/2021.

*1440p/60fps minimum

 

[SaucyJack]

Please just show us the gaaammmmeeesss ......

I don’t know how much more of this moronic level of forumming I can take.

 

[Abear21]

I think MS will blow everyone away next month and only fan the flames! Halo, Perfect Dark (if true), Fable, and Flight Simulator will seal my preorder!

Some people forget the more competitive this gen is the more we the consumer win.

 

[sonomamashine]

I don’t know how much more of this moronic level of forumming I can take.

 

[Kenpachii]

Are they even advertising 10.3 sustained in their marketing?

Not mention that site is full of baseless fud

They only advertise there top end number which is misleading. Because it could very well be that gpu throttles hard the moment the CPU gets pegged to a 100%. Do we know how low it goes? no, will we know? probably when the box gets hacked a few years in but at that point the PR did its work already. Sony is clearly avoiding the topic as they had time enough in there innitional presenation or even later on to high light it and explain it exactly.

I agree with phil on this statement tho, he could very well just state that there GPU could slam to 2ghz if only 1% of there CPU is used and will decide for each console if it can reach it or not with a auto overclock solution just to say a bigger tflops number.

Does that make it realistic for devs to work around with it? not really.

But its not exclusive towards the GPU they also pull this shit with the CPU.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

They only advertise there top end number which is misleading. Because it could very well be that gpu throttles hard the moment the CPU gets pegged to a 100%. Do we know how low it goes? no, will we know? probably when the box gets hacked a few years in but at that point the PR did its work already. Sony is clearly avoiding the topic as they had time enough in there innitional presenation or even later on to high light it and explain it exactly.

I agree with phil on this statement tho, he could very well just state that there GPU could slam to 2ghz if only 1% of there CPU is used and will decide for each console if it can reach it or not with a auto overclock solution just to say a bigger tflops number.

Does that make it realistic for devs to work around with it? not really.

Where have they even brought up the number outside of Mark's presentation?

 

[sonomamashine]

Where have they even brought up the number outside of Mark's presentation?

Sony official Web Site for example.

 

[sendit]

They only advertise there top end number which is misleading. Because it could very well be that gpu throttles hard the moment the CPU gets pegged to a 100%. Do we know how low it goes? no, will we know? probably when the box gets hacked a few years in but at that point the PR did its work already. Sony is clearly avoiding the topic as they had time enough in there innitional presenation or even later on to high light it and explain it exactly.

I agree with phil on this statement tho, he could very well just state that there GPU could slam to 2ghz if only 1% of there CPU is used and will decide for each console if it can reach it or not with a auto overclock solution just to say a bigger tflops number.

Does that make it realistic for devs to work around with it? not really.

But its not exclusive towards the GPU they also pull this shit with the CPU.

What are you speculating exactly? Sony has been extremely transparent in how it is achieving their numbers. Time stamped:



To reduce power by 10%, it only takes 1-2% of down clocking from either the CPU/GPU depending on use case.

Given the CPU tops out at 3.5 Ghz and the GPU is capped at 2.23 Ghz

A 2% reduction of 2.23 = 2.18 Ghz
A 1% reduction of 2.23 = 2.20 Ghz

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sony official Web Site for example.

I can't even find the 10tflops on the PS5 site

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Not to mention if its the clockspeed its going to spend most of its time at anyway, what tflop number are they supposed to advertise?

 

[sonomamashine]

I can't even find the 10tflops on the PS5 site

Hmmm weird, i remember it was up after GDC presentation (specs).

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Hmmm weird, i remember it was up after GDC presentation (specs).

There's a spec sheet that was put together by digital foundry but that's all i've seen outside of other sites reporting on it

 

[NullZ3r0]

Thats funny if they are good at designing the system. Why the split ram? And for the io system ps5 io solution probably can do more then just texture work or loading speeds

Cost.

 

[MasterCornholio]

There's a spec sheet that was put together by digital foundry but that's all i've seen outside of other sites reporting on it

Well PlayStation Blog is an official source from Sony if I'm not mistaken.

Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]

Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.

blog.playstation.com

"GPU: Ray Tracing Acceleration

Variable frequency, up to 2.23 GHz (10.3 TFLOPS) "

 

[WouldYouKindly]

I got flak for saying this a few months ago and imma say it again i don't play teraflops I play games sony has them games rather they be a lil underpowered compared to Xbox (lol who honestly cares look what both have done with 4-6 tf this gen) but sony also has other things ms simply doesn't have they have a chunk of the vr market that equals even more games that i want. In the past two months sony has gave me 4 games I can't play on Xbox (lous2,got, Iron man vr, the walking dead saints and sinners) that alone speaks volumes to me what was the last game xbox released that I cant play on my ps4? I honestly can't remember and thats not me being a dick.

 

[Redlight]

The only people who talk 24/7 about TFLOPS are the Xbox marketing guys and their fanboys, and that's at least since the Xbox One X.

I guess you weren't here for the 'PS5 is going to be 13+TF' party?

 

[Kumomeme]

rather just talk about specs and stuff..its would sound better for them to correlate it with making games situation or what possible be it theoritically or not...it could even serve hype for next event expectation when they showed games.

than talk about how much better fixed vs dynamic, how many tf, directstorageAPI etc, its better they put it together with possible situation in games, for example "with these xxx specs we can allow bigger world" .."with directstorageAPI we can make load in less x sec".."with x.xx cpu clockspeed we can do more realistic object destruction, AI in npc can do this and that" blablabla

it coud give people better idea and make things more interesting than just talk about numbers without something to back on

 

[SlimySnake]

I guess you weren't here for the 'PS5 is going to be 13+TF' party?

Lol those were the days. We had klee on the other site getting jerked around by his own friend. Osiris here making stuff up on a daily basis. Do you all remember the order demo he saw? BGs talking about kids hitting puberty. Tommy Fisher from discord era toying with everyone including the mods.

It was far more entertaining than this funeral precession the thread has turned to since the ps5 reveal.

 

[joe_zazen]

The only people who talk 24/7 about TFLOPS are the Xbox marketing guys and their fanboys, and that's at least since the Xbox One X.

.

switch killing it and all the top $ games being able to run on almost anything should tell people how much power matters today. MS knows this which is why their #1 console is 4TF.

 

[kikii]

The only people who talk 24/7 about TFLOPS are the Xbox marketing guys and their fanboys, and that's at least since the Xbox One X.

oh yeah ..not starting any "console warrring?" but such as TLoU2 looks better than any Xbox One X can handle

 

[Dory16]

So many interviews, same snarky little pot shots at the PS5. It's pretty much a daily occurrence at this point. All these guys do is hurl petty little passive aggressive insults at Sony. You gotta wonder if this is PTSD from the time Jack went up on that stage and laughed it up for five minutes or that used game share video with Shu and Adam Boyes. This just screams insecurity. First it was 'WE ARE THE MOST POWERFUL' talk before the PS5 was even revealed. It's like a guy with a big dick went around screaming i have a big dick. You never see that because people with big dicks dont have to advertise it. And now, after they have literally won the war of specs, they are still going after sony literally everyday. It was Phil yesterday, and now this guy. He's not even a suit. he is basically their Mark Cerny and he's mocking Cerny's design.

The only way this makes sense if these guys are kids who were so butthurt over getting made fun of, they have kept it with them for 7 long years and are finally coming out to have their revenge. It might make them feel good, but it does not make them look good. Just petty and insecure.

 

[Nikana]

Lol, this is pure gold

For months the sony fans were slapping themselves on the back after Andrew Reiner claimed that the PS5 was a 13TF monster.

On the other place in particular it was always.

"But Andrew said this"
Or
"But Klee said that"

Once the figures came out, after a spouting TFs non-stop from feb 2013 until the xbone x and until Cerny confirmed the Github nightmare was real. Sony fans have become a horde of SSD, I/O preachers, that pretend to look down their noses at TF talk. Now the excuses a flying left and right as they scramble to distance themselves from the very thing that excited them the most.

All of these next gen speculation threads should be archived. So when the new consoles get announced in 2027, we can watch the fans flip-flop like fish out of water again if their console gets trumped by the other in certain areas.

Remember when GitHub was bullshit and anyone who believed a 36 CU PS5 was an idiot.

And remember how DF were Xbox fanboys for even reporting on it because 36 CUs was bullshit.

And remember when the 13.3 TF beast was going to slay the refrigerator.

Those were the days.

 

[dxdt]

Its good that sony always try something new constantly. Ps5 is the first 2 have the fastest ssd available without being in raid 0. Ps5 is the first to have an RDNA GPU to clock at 2.2ghz

How else can they get 10.25 TF with 36 CUs?

 

[Dr Bass]

So I was just searching for something totally unrelated in my email and this popped up. Kinda funny actually. Check out the rhetoric in describing Xbox One X. Sound familiar? Did anything change in the end?

Project Scorpio "performance is remarkable"

At E3 2016 Xbox head Phil Spencer announced Project Scorpio for the first time. He promised a massively powerful consol…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Also check out the Xbox crew touting their clock speed.

I really hope Microsoft does indeed turn it around this gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

you got me. now go and find quotes of cerny and andrew house talking about how they have the most powerful console every two days. and i will find you 12 hundred quotes of Phil and other execs repeating it over and over again the past 2 years.

there is a difference between advertising your console, and then shoving it down our throat in literally every interview and tweet. and these guys tweet more than 12 year old girls.

 

[Kagey K]

Remember when GitHub was bullshit and anyone who believed a 36 CU PS5 was an idiot.

And remember how DF were Xbox fanboys for even reporting on it because 36 CUs was bullshit.

And remember when the 13.3 TF beast was going to slay the refrigerator.

Those were the days.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Remember when GitHub was bullshit and anyone who believed a 36 CU PS5 was an idiot.

And remember how DF were Xbox fanboys for even reporting on it because 36 CUs was bullshit.

And remember when the 13.3 TF beast was going to slay the refrigerator.

Those were the days.

I remember geordiemp saying not long ago how Sony's event was going to show how the Ps5 is a true next gen console and the xsx wasn't .

Any nobody that came in here saying Ps5 was 20tf was instantly believed. While anyone who said otherwise was an ms shill.

I bet a random can still pop up on Twitter claiming "ssd gives ps5 25tf" and these guys will believe it lol.

Everything has backfired for them. They should just stay in the spec thread and not bother anyone else with their fairytales anymore.

 

[Nikana]

you got me. now go and find quotes of cerny and andrew house talking about how they have the most powerful console every two days. and i will find you 12 hundred quotes of Phil and other execs repeating it over and over again the past 2 years.

there is a difference between advertising your console, and then shoving it down our throat in literally every interview and tweet. and these guys tweet more than 12 year old girls.

Do you not remember e3 2013? They publicly shot M$ is the face like a dozen times.

Both sides are petty as fuck. It's the business world.

 

[sonomamashine]

you got me. now go and find quotes of cerny and andrew house talking about how they have the most powerful console every two days. and i will find you 12 hundred quotes of Phil and other execs repeating it over and over again the past 2 years.

there is a difference between advertising your console, and then shoving it down our throat in literally every interview and tweet. and these guys tweet more than 12 year old girls.

He already made the point, i don't get the response.
You should know that this is business and in business there is no sportmanship, both company's only cares about money, not how such & such would feel about it.
Let's take this as example :



They will do the necessary to hurt competition, this is common knowledge.