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[BGs]

How about any graphical or hardware features in either console that haven't been fully unveiled yet, NOT what they as you might be forced to keep it hush hush, but any additional stuff that haven't been talked about existing at all?

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

You got called out for misleading people and being condescending. You jump in my inbox to whine and still had no answer for me calling you out. Keep trying to bait tho. I already spoke to Evilore too.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Gosh, even before Cerny's talk we've been hearing these machines are very close, but somewhat Xbox fans hear that and in some weird way think everyone is saying PS5 is more powerful and will crush XSX.

They got nothing to do, no TLOU2 nor Ghost of Tsushima, they only got the spec sheet. Not even a good game so far that shows next gen. Can't wait for the event to watch Sony give it a K.O. 1-2 weeks later.

Let's just say that XSX is the most powerful console and has the edge on everything, even SSD and I/O, and move on.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

150$ compared to 400$ there is a large gap in term of price.
I never said it was a success i said what house said at launch of PS VR. Even Sony seems not confident on VR but with 950k of PS VR sold in the first months it surpassed Sony Expectation and sold more than other competitor.
For me it's not failure except if you have big ratio expectation.

I am expecting that Sony has done away with the PSVR black box and integrated it into the PS5 and that the the PSVR2 will be fully wireless so every PS5 will be PSVR ready and just require the wireless headset . A wireless PSVR will likely be much more popular along with higher resolution .

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

Either decision you go with, we will still have big respect and love for you. And if possible would love to keep in touch, not for insider info, but because you are a very great human being.

 

[LucidFlux]

We don't even know if Lockhart is a console. Maybe it's a Surface aimed at gamers? When I read this tweet, I noticed weird wording. Sounds like "Xbox for PC", which is an app in Windows. I think Microsoft can release new hardware more often because they want to maximize subs.

To me it came across almost like he was narrating the "tasty Microsoft/Sony Announcement sandwich" like a play by play.

I read the last line like this "Later in August we're back with Xbox for the Lockhart reveal". Besides I thought I saw confirmation here that actual lockhart devkits are in the wild now, indicating it is in fact a piece of hardware.

 

[Gamerguy84]

They got nothing to do, no TLOU2 nor Ghost of Tsushima, they only got the spec sheet. Not even a good game so far that shows next gen. Can't wait for the event to watch Sony give it a K.O. 1-2 weeks later.

Let's just say that XSX is the most powerful console and has the edge on everything, even SSD and I/O, and move on.

Yep. Specs are fun to talk about but that conversation goes out the window for me when the games start coming out.

I know the basic specs of them both, Im more than happy about the PS5 specs, MS has an impressive console as well, but I cant wait to get my hands on next gen games.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Yep. Specs are fun to talk about but that conversation goes out the window for me when the games start coming out.

I know the basic specs of them both, Im more than happy about the PS5 specs, MS has an impressive console as well, but I cant wait to get my hands on next gen games.

For games, I know where my money is going, since mid 1990's.

 

[Kerlurk]

Hot Chips 2020 is scheduled for August 16th to August 18th.

www.hotchips.org

August 17th 2020
Hot Chips 32 (2020): Day One, Session 4 - GPUs and Gaming Architectures
18h00 (6:00 PM PST) - Jeff Andrews and Mark Grossman - Microsoft - Xbox Series X System Architecture
Source: anandtech

Jeff Andrews is a CPU architect and project leader in Microsoft's Xbox Console Architecture Group.
Mark Grossman (used to be with AMD, and now Xbox GPU Architect)

Time is Pacific Time (PT).

PS5 will not be at this event.

Many Bothans died to bring us this information.

 

[Jtibh]

Just

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

Just go to the offcual ps5 thread and talk about sony.
This thread is cancer anyways.
And ps5 thread needs good people and content.
These guys are bot allowed in there anyways.

 

[IntentionalPun]

For games, I know where my money is going, since mid 1990's.

Why not get all systems?

Thought you were a baller.... shame.

 

[RookX22]

Why not get all systems?

Thought you were a baller.... shame.

I mean he has a pretty ballin PC so...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Why not get all systems?

Thought you were a baller.... shame.

We have Xone around the house, I didn't even see it start, it's a dust collector mistakenly bought by my sister. For XSX games I got a PC, but I don't play games on my PC, even though it's "a gaming PC" by theory.

I would rather have my money spent where quality is offered. The only game that I "nearly" bought was Forza Horizon 4. Halo Infinite looks interesting, might give it a shot if it turns out to be worth the money.

 

[dimaveshkin]

Might be that "PS5 stuff" John mentioned in Konami video. It would be really cool to have at least some kind of 60fps option for future Spider-Man game (or all upcoming games actually)

 

[IntentionalPun]

We have Xone around the house, I didn't even see it start, it's a dust collector mistakenly bought by my sister. For XSX games I got a PC, but I don't play games on my PC, even though it's "a gaming PC" by theory.

I would rather have my money spent where quality is offered. The only game that I "nearly" bought was Forza Horizon 4. Halo Infinite looks interesting, might give it a shot if it turns out to be worth the money.

lol.. yeah my Xbox-en gather dust until my wife's cousins visit and we fire all 3 up at once to do some multiplayer gaming.

 

[sircaw]

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

Yep, stuff like this is a real shame., however it's not surprising.

What ever happens, hope you come back, i am prepared to swap, Bo, Geordie, Walter white druggie guy, Neo blaster, Roops67, Syntha1, there are probaly alot more but i'm old, memory issues,

Ps, Xacto, how the hell did i forget that excuse for roadkill.

To be honest, i think swap is a tall order, i mean who in their right minds wants to take that group. SIGH

PEACE
xxxxx

In Xacto terms,
That's
Pieces.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

lol.. yeah my Xbox-en gather dust until my wife's cousins visit and we fire all 3 up at once to do some multiplayer gaming.

Maybe it's common to see xbox in the US, but it's extremely rare to see one here, it's actually irrelevant. You can buy it in some stores and even get some physical games though.

 

[SSfox]

!!??

 

[Kerlurk]

!!??

via twitter translate:

--------------------------------------------------------------

SIE PS5? Make a note of the patent information.

-A large number of game titles across PS1/PS2/PS3 and various generations of game consoles can be stored and used via the cloud gaming library.

-These games can be run on a virtual machine that mimics the operating system associated with each game console.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to imply that different virtual machines (PS1, PS2, PS3) can run on the PS5, and run those games, but games will be downloaded from servers on the net? No disk based games?

Anyway, if they offer backwards compatibility, that would awesome.

Going forward, it becomes cheaper with every generation to be able to do this.

Virtual machines help enforce compatibility as they have their own enclosed memory space that should match the original machine.

No disk based games, may mean that Sony wants you to re-buy any game in your library in order to play it. Smart from a business perspective, but a lot of people would be upset by this.

 

[Metroiddarks]

The way I am reading this is that if you use variable frequencies you can go to a higher clock because you don't need to sustain that for a long time, so for short bursts you can go higher if the game needs this. The PS5 would never be able to keep the clocks this high for the CPU and GPU for a long time, right? Due to heating.

But this would also mean that if a 3rd party developer would be able to get everything out of the XSX with their more powerful GPU and CPU (barely), the game would need to be dumbed down for PS5 because it can't sustain those high clocks for a very long time which would be needed to follow the XSX. Right?

So variable clocks is great mostly for first party games and 3rd party games that don't push the hardware too far?

The reason of why you don't understand is simple:

Clock is not the same as power consume, workload*clock is which is equal. The reason why reduce your clock is not for heating is for the cap
in power.

Second any game or general application in any console or PC will use for long periods of time, you are dev so you should know this.

Even in programs like blender you can choose if you want to render using CPU or GPU, basically the only programs which use both to 100% of its power cap
are the benchmarks and those are not recommended for be use continuously for a normal PC user.

 

[Apollo Helios]

I guess this is PS NOW new and improved since it says cloud. Though I think PS5 is powerful enough to emulate, so for the latest console they may enable download and play of old gen games, effectively making it complete BC as long as it is part of their library which will probably created after a lot of testing.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

They got nothing to do, no TLOU2 nor Ghost of Tsushima, they only got the spec sheet. Not even a good game so far that shows next gen. Can't wait for the event to watch Sony give it a K.O. 1-2 weeks later.

Let's just say that XSX is the most powerful console and has the edge on everything, even SSD and I/O, and move on.

This is an aggressively dumb take though. Hellblade 2 looked better than anything else I've seen so far. That's not to discount TLOU2 and GoT because they both seem great but honestly with gamepass I never have "nothing to play". Just started up Soul Calibur 6.

 

[ZywyPL]

Might be that "PS5 stuff" John mentioned in Konami video. It would be really cool to have at least some kind of 60fps option for future Spider-Man game (or all upcoming games actually)

Actually rumors say that that's exactly how XBX will handle BC titles - double the framerate through machine learning. But I'm VERY sceptical about that TBH, the 2080TI has 4x more AI compute power than all XBX 52CUs combined, and it was nowhere near to be able to do that in real-time, to say politely...

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

But whose fault is that you're one of those shameful "insiders", who were spreading false information/seeking attention, only to turn out nothing you guys ever said was true at all, not even close? You have lost any credibility, most of those so-called "insiders" at least had honor and left, and you are still pretending like you know something others don't, c'mon... Suck it up, be a man, accept/admit your mistakes, instead of continuing that shameful route, you just damage yourself on demand, and get mad when someone calls you out, what are you trying to achieve by doing so?

 

[Jon Neu]

Being sick of users like SleepDoctor (or Jon Neu , etc) I am currently in open conversation with the Staff. Until this conversation is over, I will not participate in the forum in the way that I did. Once the discussion with them is over, I will decide if I continue to contribute things to the forum or if I take my suitcase (or my BS as said by my users) and leave. I am sure that these types of users are normal in the forums, but it is something that I am not used to, if it has to be that way then I will always leave. If, on the contrary, measures are taken in this regard, then I will make another decision.

How dare we question your bias and we don’t bow to everything you say, Mr Industry Professional.

I almost didn’t even remember you. I was like, why is this dude mentioning me in a thread that is basically a Sony circlejerk thread in which I rarely participate?

But don’t worry about me, there’s an Xbox Series X thread now so you all can continue your thing here. So please, don’t mention me.

 

[Aceofspades]

!!??

Oh shit, Megaton if true.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I guess this is PS NOW new and improved since it says cloud. Though I think PS5 is powerful enough to emulate, so for the latest console they may enable download and play of old gen games, effectively making it complete BC as long as it is part of their library which will probably created after a lot of testing.

Maybe this is what heisenberg was so hyped about. New PS Now that and probably some other OS features, because we haven't heard anything of that yet

 

[FranXico]

!!??

That sounds an awful lot like PSNow, not proper BC for older titles.

 

[Crazychipmunx]

That sounds an awful lot like PSNow, not proper BC for older titles.

PSNOW uses servers containing physical playstation three systems. This would imply they have been able to create software to emulate a ps3.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Is there a link to this PS5 BC patent? So annoying none of the tweets or articles reporting this seem to have the link!

I suspect like virtually all other PS patents posted/found in the couple of years this is nothing.

 

[Crazychipmunx]

PSNOW uses servers containing physical playstation three systems. This would imply they have been able to create software to emulate a ps3.

Sony creates custom PS3 hardware for PlayStation Now

Sony has developed brand new PS3 hardware to power its PlayStation Now streaming service, revealed earlier this month a…

www.eurogamer.net

If true, this could suggest that ps3 software emulation is possible on ps5. However this could also just mean improving the performance of ps3 titles on psnow.

 

[Jtibh]

Why not get all systems?

Thought you were a baller.... shame.

He is baller. Pussy baller

 

[Wraith Phantom]

I guess this is PS NOW new and improved since it says cloud. Though I think PS5 is powerful enough to emulate, so for the latest console they may enable download and play of old gen games, effectively making it complete BC as long as it is part of their library which will probably created after a lot of testing.

Its more than likely PS put out a Pro version because of the advancements to their I/O tech & register their patents. Plus probably aiding in their collab with AMD.

I rather we get a new PSP with updated PS NOW that has back compat of PS1-4 games. I would eat that up.

GIVE US THAT PSP! WE NEEDS IT FOR THE AIRPORT ,POOLSIDE ,LONGHAUL TRIPS!!!

 

[Dodkrake]

Just checking - is that phrased correctly? Variable frequencies are worse so "every desktop and laptop grade CPU uses them to some capacity"?

Ah sarcasm ... sorry, this is why you are getting the replies you are getting. People are misunderstanding your intent and point.

No, the people that replied to me are people that have been attacking variable frequencies with ignorant arguments. Don't worry.

 

[Apollo Helios]

That sounds an awful lot like PSNow, not proper BC for older titles.

Well I wouldn't jump to conclusions that quickly. First, it's a patent but there are many that are completely left unused, so there is no guarantee that this will be used or even if this is the only way Sony tackles BC still. Just a patent... take it with grain of salt yada yada...

Second, this says cloud but not PS Now, that part was my own inferring however it can be that they use cloud to look up licensing, for cloud download and the main emulation can still happen at the local hardware ie your own PS5 that is right next to you but when you put in your PS3 disc for example, it just can read the license information and all the data on that disc is completely useless for your current hardware, PS5, so that it downloads the appropriate version from the cloud to your machine after checking license, afterwards it can be all emulation on your hardware with appropriate date on its storage. Remember BluRay lasers aren't even backward compatible with DVD meta so it can only read disc headers and licensing detail but not the data. In the past they put two lasers on the disc tray so it could read BluRay and DVD data as well as disc headers and licenses, but that method increases price overhead, introduces another moving part with repair, change etc. So it makes sense that they do not put that laser but use only the disc headers to tie that license to PSN account and then direct your console to a cloud download just like a digital PS4 game...

Emulation is also nothing to scoff at now is it? Isn't it how xbox one does BC too?

 

[IntentionalPun]

That sounds an awful lot like PSNow, not proper BC for older titles.

Well.. cloud could just be there because it's not meant to work with disk based games.

Or it's there because it's a streaming solution.

But using virtual machines is basically how Microsoft does Backward's Compatibility.. so it might just mean "play locally, games stored in the cloud."

If it's PSNow then... zzzzzz...

 

[devilNprada]

The PS4 Pro formula worked perfectly for Sony,

I think it will be depend on the adoption rate of 8k TV's.. During the course of last gen every TV being sold became a 4k TV...

Just curious as to how long people here think the shift will take until 8k is the norm and can't even buy a 4k anymore?

 

[reksveks]

I think it will be depend on the adoption rate of 8k TV's.. During the course of last gen every TV being sold became a 4k TV...

Just curious as to how long people here think the shift will take until 8k is the norm and can't even buy a 4k anymore?

it depends per market, I think 60-70% of the US households have at least 1 4K tv however that number really drops outside of the US, Japan is really low in comparison something like 20% max.

 

[Apollo Helios]

I think it will be depend on the adoption rate of 8k TV's.. During the course of last gen every TV being sold became a 4k TV...

Just curious as to how long people here think the shift will take until 8k is the norm and can't even buy a 4k anymore?

Longer than 4K. Don't know the percentages but not everyone has 4K TVs and even FullHD TVs still and now we are talking about 8K. Technology adoption rate has slowed on TV front and it is up to attachment rate, that is what is that TV is used for, and if next gen console is attached or Ultra High Definition BluRay, then at least 4K adoption will sky rocket with them. Mid gen refresh was touted as 4K capable but mainstream didn't care for that so they went with base consoles, now base console is 4K and what is more HDMI 2.1 compliant, so now there is reason to finally get that 4K TV if you don't.

8K is not on the near horizon, it is still in the dark side of earth, the time is for 4K mass adoption.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I think it will be depend on the adoption rate of 8k TV's.. During the course of last gen every TV being sold became a 4k TV...

Just curious as to how long people here think the shift will take until 8k is the norm and can't even buy a 4k anymore?

4K will still exist just like 1080p that's still here after around 15 years, but by 2024-2025 LCD LED's, the budget market, will likely get 8K upgrades to appeal for consumers. By then things like microLED, QNED, dual-layer LCD LED will be more premium, and probably the death of OLED as it'll lag behind real hard. I expect the first 16K tv from Sony around 2024-2025 and should be a tv for the elites, like their current 8K tv's.

PS: They already provide 16K screens but for millions of dollars if you can handle it since 2017.

 

[Self High Five]

It was 150$, Kinect wasn't exactly cheap. But if you wanna be stingy about that, go on right ahead. There's a lot more investment being put into VR, a lot more software is available and it still isn't getting any sort of traction that would lead anyone to believe it's going to be a big hit anytime soon.

PS VR sold little over 5 million units in three years. This isn't a success and if you think it is, well ok that's cool.

What you think is a success is irrelevant. You have no idea what the internal projections, the budget or the costs for research and development.

Everything in your post is arbitrary not based on anything. "isn't getting any sort of traction", "going to be a big hit anytime soon." can be applied to any niche product.

Why are $1000 GPUs made by nVidia exist there will be 200 million+ Switch's, PS4, Xbox One sold? This isn't a success and if you think it is, well ok that's cool.

 

[3liteDragon]

That sounds an awful lot like PSNow, not proper BC for older titles.

PSNOW uses servers containing physical playstation three systems. This would imply they have been able to create software to emulate a ps3.

Sony creates custom PS3 hardware for PlayStation Now

Sony has developed brand new PS3 hardware to power its PlayStation Now streaming service, revealed earlier this month a…

www.eurogamer.net

If true, this could suggest that ps3 software emulation is possible on ps5. However this could also just mean improving the performance of ps3 titles on psnow.

Sony, merge PS Now and PS Plus.

 

[reksveks]

Sony, merge PS Now and PS Plus.

It should happen, we all know xcloud and gamepass are going to be on a single plan at some point.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I mean he has a pretty ballin PC so...

I'm too committed to PS that I can't betray Sony by playing on my PC.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Games With “Massive, Detailed Worlds” Will Benefit the Most From PS5 and Xbox Series X SSDs - Dysmantle Dev

"Streaming world content is one of the big things that will get better," says 10tons…

gamingbolt.com

“Multiplatform games will probably find a suitable bandwidth and tools to scale the amount of data so that it works on all platforms,” he said. “It might be that texture detail level can be varied according to available bandwidth, for example.”

 

[Sinthor]

Got it, thanks guys!

It really is just a different philosophy and also an attempt to get more out of the hardware as far as I see it. So if you can fully load the GPU's the XSX has a clear advantage there, flop for flop. But most of the time games aren't 100% utilizing the GPU's, so smart shift is trying to help the whole system run faster when NOT 100% utilized....if I'm understanding it correctly. Bottom line, I think we really need to see the same games running on both systems to see how this plays out in the real world, but all of this may be helping account for all the whispers and rumors of both boxes being super close to each other in performance. Plus of course the fact that the percentage difference even in pure numbers is far less than the difference was in this current generation.

Maybe I just don't understand everything well enough either (very probable) but it seems to me that the smart shift and variable frequency bit isn't as important as the cooling system which may let the PS5 operate very consistently at the higher range of it's capability? Assuming everything works as planned, that is.

One other thing I've been surprised at so far is that from what we've seen so far...without using FULL ray tracing, devs seem be be utilizing RT at least a decent amount with only apparently about a 10% penalty in performance? If that's the case, I think we'll see a lot more use of RT tech than I thought there would be this generation. Either way, things look really cool so far and we all know it will only get better as these machines progress into their 'mature' phase. I just want to see more demos and stuff...NOW!

When's the next Xbox demo? I think that's coming up before Sony does another show, right?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

When's the next Xbox demo? I think that's coming up before Sony does another show, right?

23/07 9AM PT

 

[ToadMan]

!!??

So PS Now offered remote storage of games and remote execution.

This seems to refer to remote storage but local execution on a VM.

Perhaps this will be Sony’s solution for areas where PS now wouldn’t perform well because of network issues (basically everywhere it turns out).

Or maybe it’s like Nintendo offer with online - a curated set of BC games that’s bundled with PS Plus subscriptions ...

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

via twitter translate:

--------------------------------------------------------------

SIE PS5? Make a note of the patent information.

-A large number of game titles across PS1/PS2/PS3 and various generations of game consoles can be stored and used via the cloud gaming library.

-These games can be run on a virtual machine that mimics the operating system associated with each game console.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to imply that different virtual machines (PS1, PS2, PS3) can run on the PS5, and run those games, but games will be downloaded from servers on the net? No disk based games?

Anyway, if they offer backwards compatibility, that would awesome.

But going forward, it becomes cheaper with every generation to be able to do this.

Virtual machines help enforce compatibility as they have their own enclosed memory space that should match the original machine.

No disk based games, may mean that Sony wants you to re-buy any game in your library in order to play it. Smart from a business perspective, but a lot of people would be upset by this.

They could do a "validation" type thing with the disk games. Insert the disk, the console recognizes it and opens the PS Now screen to download said game but you still need to keep the disk inside to be able to play it (kinda like with AC Black Flag or COD Ghosts back in 2013). This way the developer/publisher still gets some revenue as the game is being played through the PS Now service and the player can still play old games for free. Do it, Sony!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

He is baller. Pussy baller

 

[Neo Blaster]

It was 150$, Kinect wasn't exactly cheap. But if you wanna be stingy about that, go on right ahead. There's a lot more investment being put into VR, a lot more software is available and it still isn't getting any sort of traction that would lead anyone to believe it's going to be a big hit anytime soon.

PS VR sold little over 5 million units in three years. This isn't a success and if you think it is, well ok that's cool.

Yeah, it's such a failure that Sony, not yet satisfied, is investing in another VR generation to fail even more, those idiots!!!