Raoul_Duke
Member
You don’t show 1080p 30 fps raytraced minecraft either
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Wake me up when Sony shows a real-time path traced Demo.You don’t show 1080p 30 fps raytraced minecraft either
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Sinthor
Gold Member
You know, you're very possibly right. I hadn't thought thru the fact that this new generation hasn't even STARTED yet and we've already seen that use of RT. I was stunned as well at seeing it. Like I said earlier, I really didn't think we'd see much use of RT at all. But I think you're right...there's plenty of room to optimize and make better use of the hardware so if we're seeing this kind of use of RT NOW then it's not unreasonable to expect this will be expanded. Good times! I can't wait to see more!
eastwood333
Banned
Tim Sweeny "PS5 is REVOLUTIONARY guys!." "Did i mention Sony invested 250 million into my company?"
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Andodalf
Banned
You don’t show 1080p 30 fps raytraced minecraft either
MS showed it on their new console, with results pretty comparable tohigh end GPUs. It wasn’t a showcase for the game, but the hardware
Epic passed over not only the series X, but PC, which can have a far more powerful GPU, with enough ram to do whatever you want if you have the budget.
There’s no comparison between a platform holder showing their console and a 3rd party showing a lesser version of their new middleware
DaGwaphics
Member
Hopefully they have a Joe Shmoe program too. I'd sing like a canary for the discount price of just $1m.
Handy Fake
Member
Did this make sense in your head, or..?
3liteDragon
Member
Path-traced reflections on an actual game (not a demo) running at native 4K@30FPS, captured on PS5.
sircaw
Banned
Its wonderful news, the best Engine being given to the best game developers, working on the most technically advanced console out there.
The things they are going to do are going to be mind blowing.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Although the idea was good and excited a few hardcore fans, no one realistically cares about low quality blocks of grass and soil being rendered with full RT. Show next gen graphics or go home.
Hopefully Microsoft can show something running on an actual series x hardware and not an approximation of expected gameplay running on a 2080ti.... have they shown anything yet running on an actual xbox? The whole last event I think was all on PC.
sircaw
Banned
Crimson_Fate
Member
So you want them to showcase their new "STREAMING" engine on a PC which is using enough ram to simulate what it would look like if it could stream as fast as the PS5 ?
eastwood333
Banned
XSX is all most 2tf more powerful at sustained performance, while also being smaller. PS5 is the weaker platform on top of having variable clocks, and larger in size. Evidence and facts do not support your comments. Phil is going all out stating XSX is more powerful. Notice Sony isn't saying anything of the sort.
I get it. Sonys own 1st party games from the E3 event failed to wow anybody, but somehow a 3rd party engine will surpass what sonys world class 1st party studios can accomplish on the PS5. I didn't know all of sony 1st party studios are going to use UE5. Can you provide a link to this? I didn't think so.
On the other hand, majority of MS 1st party are using the UE5 engine on top of having the more powerful hardware to work with.
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
So are your saying he was lying about that despite many other devs saying similar things? From everything we have heard it is revolutionary.
But if it makes you feel better to think that and that it's all a big marketing ploy, more fool you.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Are... are you actually serious?
You can't be.
OK, let's assume you are.
Are you actually comparing standard rasterized rendering with ray traced effects to fully path traced rendering?
Dave_at_Home
Member
I haven't heard anything either, but it wouldn't surprise me if Sony could easily do that. At the end of the day, I don't know how much it's really needed. Looking at the slow-as-hell PS4 CPU, the PS5 CPU at 3.5 is plenty to run those games at much higher frames. Honestly, I don't even think it's that necessary for Series X to run at 3.8 for current gen, but whatever, could be wrong. I'm not sure if the next Halo game is built with Xbox One as a foundation, but if it is, than they may need 3.8 to hit the much hyped 120fps on console. Just bullshitting here, I dunno.
sircaw
Banned
You really are butt hurt over all this aren't you, you been fucking trolling all day, antagonising people, then you come in and lay another one of your shit posts, your not trying to have a conversation, your fucking transparent.
First your like boo fucking hoo sony is paying Tim to say nice things about the ps5
Then your contradict yourself 5 seconds later asking for a source where are they using UE5.
Make up your fucking mind troll.
This forum has been fine for the last few weeks until they let the horde of Phil my good mate back in.
Report me, get me banned, what ever you like, but stop talking dog shit.
eastwood333
Banned
Revolutionary is a broad term. Whats revolutionary? Audio features? Controller features? I have noticed nobody is saying PS5 is more powerful than the XSX including Sony. Phil Spencer is not shy about stating XSX is the most powerful next gen console.
Great Hair
Banned
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eastwood333
Banned
Its the opposite of butthurt. I actually saw the headline and grinned saying "i knew it"!! I and many others have been vindicated by saying all along that all the gushing from Tim Sweeny over the weaker performing PS5 while totally ignoring the more powerful XSX even exist screams marketing deal!
Turns out Sony invested a whopping 250 million into Tim's company. My guess is it's about sony exclusives launching on Epics store.
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Barakov
Gold Member
J_Gamer.exe
Member
What is it with people called Eastwood and xbox lol...
But where is the advantage so far? Not a single game announced runs at a higher resolution or framrate. Suddenly now a dev leak said the only difference was more effects.
The massive 2 TF advantage has so far now only meant slightly better effects and this is what your dining out on?
Xbox 52 CU's are harder to fully utilize and if not fully utilized it wont be hitting its theatrical max much. PS5 has cache scrubbers which should help with getting higher CU occupancy. Add in other benefits from faster clocks and you can see why devs have said they are actually very close in real world performance and why there is little difference in res and framrate announced.
This 2TF sustained advantage you think it has isn't what you think it is and your only setting yourself up for a fall.
Dave_at_Home
Member
I'm going out on a limb here, but it's entirely possible that one of the reasons Sony's console is bigger isn't just down to cooling, but because we haven't seen all the hardware inside the PS5 yet. What I'm referring to is the possibility of hardware dedicated to their next-gen VR. I say this because the current PSVR has a breakout box that comes with it and that kind of hardware could be built into the PS5 this time around. It could also simply mean Sony's cooling is top notch, so we'll see. I'd also like to add that variable clocks, aka AMD SmartShift, actually increase performance, so Sony including such tech is not a bad thing. The only downside is it does create more heat, so again, it may be the sole reason for a larger console, but it could be more cost effective for Sony versus purchasing a larger GPU. Just spitballing here. At the end of the day the Series X has a more powerful GPU, but with things such as their cache scrubbers and SmartShift, they may close the gap better than you would think.
Knitted Knight
Banned
You really don't get it? Cmon now you're close.
eastwood333
Banned
We will find out when DF head to head analysis appear. We haven't seen anything really running on XSX yet other than a few cross gen AA games. We have seen PS5 exclusives by 1st party devs.
XSX should have advantages in resolution,framerates, ray tracing(significantly more CU's)etc...while PS5 games will probably load 1-2 seconds faster.
3liteDragon
Member
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Revolutionary in design. It's designed for speed all through and eliminating bottlenecks. Sony has made breakthroughs in io and left all in the dust there.
There will be times when PS5 performs better because of its strengths, like on UE5 only possible at that level of detail because of the breakthroughs Sony made. Not to say xbox can't also run it great but it would probably have to lower something because of the streaming is half as fast or likely further away, but could have different advantages itself.
Hmm... The same dev who showed him a trailer of their photorealistic game that he was able to flawlessly recall every nuance from memory?
Or the ones who would give him interview exclusivity rights about their next gen game?
Weird they’d give him that, but lie to him about specs.
Still hoping we get to see that trailer!
J_Gamer.exe
Member
No i think the bold was right the event was on a PC was it not. I know some was confirmed to be on a 2080ti and the rest said expected quality so that can't have been on xbox either.
There you go again with res and framrate but so far we have a list somewhere of every game announced and its exactly the same resolution and framrate on both. Surely with such a huge 2TF difference the xbox would show it even in the games announced? Why isn't it then?
Your forgetting another main advantage of way faster streaming and that's it frees up more ram as less is needed to be held to only potential be used. More ram is working with what's on screen.
Faster streaming means less pop in issues and lod issues and that's something really noticeable when it happens. Pop in is immersion breaking.
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
yep. It certainly is 'just' minecraft. But it's still more than sony has been able to show.
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jose4gg
Member
So you rather have Minecraft full ray traced looking at 1030@30 then ratchet & clank 4k@30 “some implementations of RT”
Ok...
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eastwood333
Banned
XSX has the better gpu, cpu, and bandwidth advantage.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
We have seen a fair bit of RT at 4k 30 and 4k60 on GT7.
It's not too much of a stretch to imagine at only 1080p it could have much better RT on a game like minecraft.
Xbox should have an advantage but remember xbox can probably have more Ray's but I read about PS5 less Ray's but more bounces because of the clock speed advantage.
Also lets not forget what quantum error are targeting. That's a game that looked miles better than minecraft.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Gpu but not as much as the numbers on paper suggest according to most devs and actual res and framrate announced.
CPU is negligible. 100mhz ish but its CPU has io on it whereas PS5 is all done in the io unit.
Bandwidth is debatable too as for games less than 10gb it should do but games more than that there was talk of the split ram causing some issue of slowing the effective bandwidth... although not an expert in that and sure someone else can explain better. Also I think bandwidth per CU was broadly similar?
So no again it's not as simplistic as you claim.
3liteDragon
Member
You keep telling ur self that lol
Imtjnotu
Member
Now I know your ass is trolling
This has been the best day in the thread in the last few weeks
Please keep it going
bitbydeath
Member
Stop trolling. We’ve already seen PS5 games are 4K. You won’t get higher than that on Xbox. We’ve also seen the load time differences to be around 10 seconds.
For frame rates the only comparison we have is Dirt 5 running at 120FPS on both. On top of that we’ve only seen PS5 with 8K textures.
You’re living in hypotheticals when we’ve already seen a lot of what to expect.
eastwood333
Banned
XSX has a nearly a 2TF power advantage. Significantly more CU's, that according to devs, gives XSX about a 40% advantage in Ray Tracing capabilities.
Nobody is saying the XSX is significantly more powerful. Just stating a fact. It is more powerful and resolutions,framerates,ray tracing should be better on XSX. I think most would prefer those advantages over a 1-2 second faster loading time.
Great Hair
Banned
C´mon, really?
"basic raytracing & Demon´s Souls", 4K30, 4K60 or Ratchet&Clank
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Snowdonhoffen
Member
Well on the GPU there's no argue to be made, XSX has the upper hand, but saying XSX has a CPU and bandwidth advantage... that we can't be 100% certain, some will say the PS5 will have the advantage when a game needs more than 10 GB of RAM because of the XSX asymetrical memory and some others will say the PS5 coprocessors and Tempest Engine will remove workload from the CPU, leaving room for a better performance.
And then someone else is going to say XSX also has workload removed fom the CPU thanks to the XVA and its audio chip and we are going to spend the next 10 pages arguing about the same stuff that has been said since these consoles got revealed.
I think the best thing to do is to wait and see and not start to argue about the same thing over and over.
eastwood333
Banned
Stating the XSX is more powerful based on facts is not trolling. Nor is pointing out sonys 250 million investment into Epic explains all the biased one sided gushing for sony trolling.
Yes, both appear to be able to hit 120fps, but at what cost? XSX should be capable of running games at higher resoultions, steadier framerates, and better ray tracing based on both platforms console specs.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Don't worry Tim didn't forget about you so you can stop crying about the deal now
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eastwood333
Banned
Look at the spec sheets released by both platforms.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
C´mon, really?
"basic raytracing & Demon´s Souls", 4K30, 4K60 or Ratchet&Clank
Now I know your ass is trolling
This has been the best day in the thread in the last few weeks
Please keep it going
I'll say it again, slowly this time so perhaps you'll all understand.
Fully. Path. Traced. Rendering.
When sony demonstrates it, let us all know.
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bitbydeath
Member
You’re guessing from the brute force angle. The numbers don’t tell everything and we know PS5 is faster which means it can stream more content and since it is switching content in and out every second it won’t rely on the GPU as much as Xbox.
Bottom line is they’re not comparable in how they operate to draw a straight line.
Andodalf
Banned
They know. They know the PS5 is worse. They pretend not to understand. Their shit tier trolling is just them trying to convince themself being less powerful is okay, and spread fear uncertainty and doubt about the SX capability.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Being less powerful is ok though. It's the endless attempts at 10>12 with constant delusion and denial that's the problem.
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