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Apple removes Fortnite from app store after Epic launches new payment system (Update: removed from Google Play store too)

TriSuit666

TriSuit666

Banned
TimFL said:
This. Apple keeps touting their „all digital goods consumed in-app have to be bought with out in-app payment processing if you offer them for sale in our app“ and „every developer has to abide by these rules“ bulletpoints yet they let Amazon bypass the rule in the Prime Video app (and 2 other apps I forgot the name of).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is weird - you can buy things in the Video app, but you can only browse the store in the Kindle app.
 
HE1NZ

HE1NZ

Banned
GHG said:
Epic vs Google vs Apple

Bo6fxiQ.gif


You love to see it.
Click to expand...
If Apple loses, so would Gaf's favorite: Sony :messenger_winking:
 
llien

llien

Member


Nicktendo_ said:
Yeah, it's the lawsuit part which is dumb as fuck. They knew full well they'd be kicked off.
Click to expand...
There are things called "laws" which are above "rules greedy assholes at a company that barely pays income tax have made up".
And then there are PRINCIPLES which led to creation of the said laws, which we tend to change over time, when we see the need.
 
Herr Edgy

Herr Edgy

Member
MrFunSocks said:
They choose to release their game on the store, they need to follow the stores rules. Nothing unfair about that.
Click to expand...
They chose to release their rules under countries' laws, they need to follow the laws. Nothing unfair about that.

Not saying Epic does or doesn't have a strong legal leg here, but your stance is way too simplistic and disregarding all context.
 
Hissing Sid

Hissing Sid

Member
Fucking lol at the peeps cheering on Epic/tencent just because 'Apple'.

It's like cheering on rapist No.2 because he interrupted rapist No.1 half-way through the digital dry hump.

Not one of these companies would piss on you to put you out; well not without a monthly subscription anyway.
 
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V

Vangu Vegro

Member
Well, here's hoping Google and Apple will cut out the cancer that is Epic and this shitstain of a year can yet have a silver lining.
 
N

Nicktendo_

Banned
llien said:



There are things called "laws" which are above "rules greedy assholes at a company that barely pays income tax have made up".
And then there are PRINCIPLES which led to creation of the said laws, which we tend to change over time, when we see the need.
Click to expand...


And just now, at this moment, after 12 years of these rules, Tence Epic have decided that Apple is too greedy and they have a nicely timed propaga promotional video to launch in sync with their removal form the App Store. Those "greedy assholes" built something that people wanted to use and became immensely successful because of the number of people who though - "yeah, this is good". What have you made?

Maybe Apple's cut is too high, maybe they are too restrictive?

But, them's the rules. There are laws and rules, which people respect and follow and discuss if they think they are unjust. Maybe boycott companies and corporations who's rules / laws they don't agree with.

Then there is the CCP, who disregard all laws because it thinks it is above them and hilariously think they are justified in suing a store for their own store policies now that they have a successful product - "muh, competition!!"

What is really stopping Epic doing what they did with Steam? They have enough money. Nah, it's not about that, it's about financially harming Apple and Google.

Do you have an Apple hate boner?

so-small.png
 
llien

llien

Member
Nicktendo_ said:
Those "greedy assholes" built something that people wanted to use and became immensely successful because of the number of people who though - "yeah, this is good". What have you made?
Click to expand...
Me, personally?
Are you trolling or seriously?

Nicktendo_ said:
Maybe boycott companies and corporations who's rules / laws they don't agree with.
Click to expand...
Instead of suing the assholes, because... oh, I think I need your help here.
 
-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
China money should always be suspicious, but at the end of the day, as an Xbox/iOS fan who is seriously disappointed in the current Xcloud situation, thinks 30% is ridiculous, and is fed up with Apple's shit in general, this is wonderful, and I absolutely will cheer Epic on.

As turnabout is fair play, I wonder how many salty Apple/Steam/anti-Fortnite warriors are in here?

Epic is putting on this show like they're doing this for the people. Maybe they are, I don't know. They've gotten us cross-platform console multiplayer, set an example of non-predatory microtransactions, and reduced this same 30% fee significantly on their own platform. Pledging that the money, if they win, will go directly to consumers in the lowered V-Bucks prices we've already seen yesterday, is also nice.

I can't help but notice that all those things help them too, though, lol.

End of the day though, does it really matter? Has nobody here heard, 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'?
 
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N

Nicktendo_

Banned
llien said:
Me, personally?
Are you trolling or seriously?


Instead of suing the assholes, because... oh, I think I need your help here.
Click to expand...

Greed / profit = bad, got it.
Good luck convincing 1.4 billion people to part with their iOS devices.

"I don't like that you sell my products with a mark up. Yes, you have the best location in town, and you also have the best foot traffic, but I don't like your 30% cut, so I'm suing you."

Amazing argument.
 
DaleinCalgary

DaleinCalgary

Member
I'm sure Google and Apple have had lawyers preparing for this case for years.

I think it's pretty straightforward. If you don't like the 30% cut on the app stores don't use them.
 
S

Slings and Arrows

Banned
I remember when:

Microsoft were bigger than Apple
Yahoo were bigger than Google
Nintendo ruled the market
Sega made consoles


Their downfall/loss of market share, all started with one incident, a catalyst. Maybe this is the one that brings Epic, Google or Apple down?
 
ZywyPL

ZywyPL

Banned
llien

llien

Member
Gashtronomy said:
brings Epic, Google or Apple
Click to expand...

Setting aside your implication that software juggernaut called Microsoft has somehow fallen (let me spoil it for you, they are at market capitalization of 1.6 TRILLION bucks, Apple is ahead, but not by much, 1.97 billion, oh, and in the beginning Microsoft was much smaller, than Apple) you have referenced 3 companies in a conflict, as if some of them winning or losing the fight has the same implications for users, or if their practices are even the same.

One side is Apple and Google.
While Google takes its cut, it doesn't go nearly as filthy as Apple does:
1) Google allows phone to be connected to other stores (even in parallel) and even side loading apps
2) Google does not ask for a cut from subscription payments (if, say Washington Post sells subscription to an IOS device, Apple keeps getting its cut for years, until subscription is canceled)

Another side is EPIC and... millions of developers.
Them paying less to Apple and Google is a good thing.

It is very clearly not a "let them fight" situation.
 
decisions

decisions

Member
Dr Bass said:
You have no understanding of the lawsuit or what is actually going on. Epic is far from shameless here. Remember how the iPad was "the future of computing" as told by Apple for so many years? So is iOS not .. a computing platform? Is Apple going to control "the future of computing" by saying what we can and cannot run?

It has nothing to do with a merchant and their own stores, it has to do with being the gatekeeper on general computing platforms, of which there are basically two players who are 50/50 in the US. There is no choice for users.

Go look at what software engineers are saying. Epic is a hero to them right now, and for good reason. It's not a battle of big corp. vs smaller corp. It's about the very ideals of software development and computing platforms and software freedom.

Of course Apple can have their own rules on their own store. That's not what this is about. This is about not being able to install whatever software you want on your own computer. Period.

Again. Read.
Click to expand...

lol “read”. Nice condescending attitude while clearly stating falsehoods.

This is about a merchant and the rules of their store. Fortnite was removed because they violated the in-app purchase rule. Epic just wants that money to go to them instead of Apple. But guess what? They didn’t make iOS, so they don’t get to decide how it works. If they don’t like it they can choose not to use it. Google and Samsung removed the game for the same reason. I don’t know why you are saying this isn’t about store policies when it clearly is.

Also, I am a software engineer haha. Why would Epic be a “hero” to me? Sounds like they just want to make more money and have the government make operating systems have to comply by a new law. Don’t know any software engineer who wants all computing platforms to be identical! That would put us all in the same pool and make it much harder to get hired. If I wanted to protest Apple’s store policy, I wouldn’t deploy to their store.
 
Last edited:
MrFunSocks

MrFunSocks

Banned
Herr Edgy said:
They chose to release their rules under countries' laws, they need to follow the laws. Nothing unfair about that.

Not saying Epic does or doesn't have a strong legal leg here, but your stance is way too simplistic and disregarding all context.
Click to expand...
They aren’t breaking any countries’ laws though, epic just don’t want to pay the 30% cut lol.
 
S

Slings and Arrows

Banned
llien said:
Setting aside your implication that software juggernaut called Microsoft has somehow fallen (let me spoil it for you, they are at market capitalization of 1.6 TRILLION bucks, Apple is ahead, but not by much, 1.97 billion, oh, and in the beginning Microsoft was much smaller, than Apple) you have referenced 3 companies in a conflict, as if some of them winning or losing the fight has the same implications for users, or if their practices are even the same.

One side is Apple and Google.
While Google takes its cut, it doesn't go nearly as filthy as Apple does:
1) Google allows phone to be connected to other stores (even in parallel) and even side loading apps
2) Google does not ask for a cut from subscription payments (if, say Washington Post sells subscription to an IOS device, Apple keeps getting its cut for years, until subscription is canceled)

Another side is EPIC and... millions of developers.
Them paying less to Apple and Google is a good thing.

It is very clearly not a "let them fight" situation.
Click to expand...
Microsoft aren't the giant they used to be and Apple aren't the ginger step-child that they used to be. Billions of people now use IOS, instead of using Windows like they used to.

You took my post to the most serious extreme on one point, for some strange reason, rather than looking at the overall message; companies rise and fall 🤷‍♂️
 
Denton

Denton

Member
Hissing Sid said:
Fucking lol at the peeps cheering on Epic/tencent just because 'Apple'.

It's like cheering on rapist No.2 because he interrupted rapist No.1 halfway through the digital dry hump.

Not one of these companies would piss on you to put you out; well not without a monthly subscription anyway.
Click to expand...
This moral relativism is dumb. Sweeney may or may not be doing this out of goodness of his heart, but the end result would be the same if he won: all developers, and by extension customers, would be better off, if the store cut got lowered and competition was allowed.
 
Last edited:
Herr Edgy

Herr Edgy

Member
MrFunSocks said:
They aren’t breaking any countries’ laws though, epic just don’t want to pay the 30% cut lol.
Click to expand...
Yes, sure. Epic Games is suing Apple without referencing any laws they might be breaking. They are just baiting Apple into removing their own app from the App Store and suing for the fun of it with no chance of success, because Epic Games is dumb.
Are you hearing yourself?

I'm giving you a hint: antitrust laws.
 
phil_t98

phil_t98

#SonyToo
Denton said:
This moral relativism is dumb. Sweeney may or may not be doing this out of goodness of his heart, but the end result would be the same if he won: all developers, and by extension customers, would be better off, if the store cut got lowered and competition was allowed.
Click to expand...
Funny thing is the price change was only 20% different not 30% when they asked for direct payment. Who wins Epic not the consumer
 
MrFunSocks

MrFunSocks

Banned
Herr Edgy said:
Yes, sure. Epic Games is suing Apple without referencing any laws they might be breaking. They are just baiting Apple into removing their own app from the App Store and suing for the fun of it with no chance of success, because Epic Games is dumb.
Are you hearing yourself?

I'm giving you a hint: antitrust laws.
Click to expand...
They are suing *because* Apple removed them from the store lol. They didn’t bait them to remove it.

epic will lose this. They’ve chosen to put their game on the store knowing that if they do they have to give the store owner a 30% cut.

What part of the antitrust laws are Apple violating? Tell me since you apparently already know it’s an easy win for epic.
 
Warnen

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
If the 30% is really to much of a cost for the massive exposure they get from being on the App Store. They should organize and pull apps to force Apple to negotiate, not breach contract this way.

Enough comapnies pull apps won’t be anything good in the App Store and Apple will have to negotiate or lose users.

sadly epic/china doesn’t care about the 30% really they just want more money. Why only discount the vbucks 20% when apple took 30....
 
Holammer

Holammer

Member
Any internet lawyers here that can estimate how many years this process will take, two to three years or more?
Are Epic in for the long haul, or are they intent on bringing this to arbitration asap to haggle new revenue share terms.
 
Herr Edgy

Herr Edgy

Member
MrFunSocks said:
They are suing *because* Apple removed them from the store lol. They didn’t bait them to remove it.

epic will lose this. They’ve chosen to put their game on the store knowing that if they do they have to give the store owner a 30% cut.

What part of the antitrust laws are Apple violating? Tell me since you apparently already know it’s an easy win for epic.
Click to expand...
You realize they had a 65+ page lawsuit and PR campaign including an animated fortnite video that mocks Apple's 1984 commercial ready to strike right?
This was a huge bait on Epic's part.
 
Hissing Sid

Hissing Sid

Member
Denton said:
This moral relativism is dumb. Sweeney may or may not be doing this out of goodness of his heart, but the end result would be the same if he won: all developers, and by extension customers, would be better off, if the store cut got lowered and competition was allowed.
Click to expand...

Epic are free to make their own phones and create their own app store to sell their own digital dogshit.

Brb, just nipping out to the local superstore to demand terms on them selling my shit. If they cave I pinky promise that I'll pass on any savings to my customers. I have an honest face, you can trust me.
 
Denton

Denton

Member
Hissing Sid said:
Epic are free to make their own phones and create their own app store to sell their own digital dogshit.

Brb, just nipping out to the local superstore to demand terms on them selling my shit. If they cave I pinky promise that I'll pass on any savings to my customers. I have an honest face, you can trust me.
Click to expand...
Cute. I get this hardcore capitalist outlook, I sympathize with it, but in my view business should not be conducted in a cunty way, which is what Apple and Google are doing. Epic too, to lesser extent, with those exclusives of theirs.
 
Elog

Elog

Member
A lot of you are missing the core of this case. It is ultimately about anti-trust legislation and abuse of a dominant market position.

That means that this has very little to do with Sony and Nintendo for example. That also means that the argument 'if you do not like it, do not be there' has no meaning since their dominant market position means you have to be there to not loose out a disproportionate piece of your business.

This will be interesting. This case has potentially much more implications for Google, Amazon and Microsoft (outside games) than anything else that is relevant for this forum.
 
Fuz

Fuz

Banned
Nicktendo_ said:
Yeah, it's the lawsuit part which is dumb as fuck. They knew full well they'd be kicked off. They signed up to the rules, and now they suddenly don't agree and have a nice little propaganda video to turn the kiiiiiids against Apple.

Good luck Tencent.
Click to expand...
It's not that easy. Apple has a dominant market position and a monopoly on their phones, they can and will leverage on that.

And in any case, this looks a lot like a publicity stunt.
 
Last edited:
TheSHEEEP

TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
The 30% cut for in-game sales is utter BS, though, so on one hand I'm with Epic on this.

On the other hand, they agreed to the rules when they signed up, so....
 
P

PresetError

Neophyte
Elog said:
A lot of you are missing the core of this case. It is ultimately about anti-trust legislation and abuse of a dominant market position.

That means that this has very little to do with Sony and Nintendo for example. That also means that the argument 'if you do not like it, do not be there' has no meaning since their dominant market position means you have to be there to not loose out a disproportionate piece of your business.

This will be interesting. This case has potentially much more implications for Google, Amazon and Microsoft (outside games) than anything else that is relevant for this forum.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Apple have like the 24% of the smartphone pool? Fuck Apple, by all means, but they are hardly in a dominant market position.
 
Elog

Elog

Member
PresetError said:
Doesn't Apple have like the 24% of the smartphone pool? Fuck Apple, by all means, but they are hardly in a dominant market position.
Click to expand...

You are pointing out the core argument in the legal case - do they, or do they not?

Several authorities are exactly investigating this right now. It is not random that Apple stated the following just a few days ago:

www.reuters.com

Apple not dominant in any market, plenty of rivals, senior executive says

IPhone maker Apple, the target of EU antitrust investigations into key segments of its business, on Tuesday rejected accusations of market dominance, saying it competes with Google, Samsung and other rivals.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
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