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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
Even xbox shills can't bring themselves to be excited for xsx 😂😂👀
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jimbojim

jimbojim

Banned
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
If you are going to see it this way, they also crushed the ps5 ssd thingy, didn't they?
Just imagine how the ssd pc market will be in a year from now...
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Nope. Nvidia crushed XSX, PS5 power dreams, or better to say AMD's dreams. But surely Nvidia didn't bested nor crushed PS5s SSD I/O solution at all. Everyone in the industry are behind PS5 I/O solution
 
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R

roops67

Member
geordiemp said:
The real point of discussion is the progress and timimg of MS for the velocity architecture implemetation apis and drivers / OS.

The hardware for both systems are done along time ago, the state of the OS / drivers and APIs is the real questions. My take is MS will only show next gen stuff running on XSX when they are done.......

MFVxhCv.png
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It throws into question the validity of the post below, but since it's vetted then it overrides the facts!? 🤦‍♂️
Nikana said:
Decided to ask a buddy of mine in the industry about the Lockhart and Series X vs PS5 and what he thinks so far. He is working on Borderlands 3 for Next Gen right now.

Vetted by Bill O'Rights

When I asked about Lockhart "holding back next gen." He had this to say:

"I really hate this term as it doesn't make any sense in terms of how games are actually made but I understand what people are trying to say. But if you have ever designed a game there isn't much you can and can not do. Its all a matter of what you are willing to put time/resources into to get working correctly. Whenever a new generation of consoles happens it allows creators to get things working faster and easier. Lockhart when we/my team was first briefed on it sounded really bad on paper.

Microsoft failed on providing real dev kits and details on the project. We didn't get any type of Lockhart hardware until very recently. Before we actually had the hardware we were given a profile on Anaconda dev kits that would mimic what Lockhart would be. But Microsoft never mentioned that it would have the same CPU and an SSD or how much RAM they intended Lockhart to have. I suspect this was because they themselves hadn't decided. To put it bluntly, they released these profiles far too early. The tools they provided made us hate Lockhart.

That changed once we got Lockhart Dev kits. It is indeed the same CPU and SSD and getting up and running on this device was super easy compared to Anaconda running in the Lockhart profile. We have been able to do the work we want on Anaconda and get it running on Lockhart with not a ton of work but it has required a bit more time to make sure the code runs on both machines in the same fashion. Its not something we are really worried about anymore. As the generation goes on I feel like this will be the approach for many studios. You start on Anaconda and then optimize for Lockhart. There is nothing the Lockhart can't do that the Anaconda can.

The one thing I have heard thats concerning is that Lockhart dev kits are not common. It seems like Microsoft really wants to be able to use Anaconda to accurately portray Lockhart performance and that has not been the experience my team has had. The profiles and tools are getting better on Anaconda in terms of mimicking Lockhart, but if you don't have a Lockhart dev kit, I feel like you are not going to be able to see how it accurately runs on Lockhart. Maybe this will change, but as of right now you really need a Lockhart Dev kit to understand it. For smaller teams I could see the optimization process being more time consuming but the tools provided by Microsoft have come a long way. They make it very easy to jump from one kit to another and the Lockhart kit is equipped with a lot of tools that help you see exactly where code needs to be looked at. Ray Tracing is one area that they seemed to have focused on and have made it very easy to adjust the levels."

I asked about PS5 Dev kits vs Series X dev kits and which console has the upper hand?

"PS5 dev kit is a bit easier to work with. Its well thought out and designed in ways that make it a bit easier to tweak and change things vs Anaconda. To say I prefer one over the other isn't' really fair because both are very good, but its just a bit easier to work with PS5. But Anaconda has the upper hand in terms of us being able to really push effects. The difference will come down to effects over resolution for us. We have both dev kits pushing 4K/60 on Borderlands 3 and we have almost zero loading times on both kits. Looking at them side by side the image is very similar.
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Great to see you back geordiemp, hope you didn't spend all your time off lurking around here :messenger_beaming:
 
Nikana

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
roops67 said:
It throws into question the validity of the post below, but since it's vetted then it overrides the facts!? 🤦‍♂️

Great to see you back geordiemp, hope you didn't spend all your time off lurking around here :messenger_beaming:
Click to expand...

Your obsession over this is embarrassing.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
jimbojim said:
Nope. Nvidia crushed XSX, PS5 power dreams, or better to say AMD's dreams. But surely Nvidia didn't bested nor crushed PS5s SSD I/O solution at all. Everyone in the industry are behind PS5 I/O solution
Click to expand...

It's funny that most of our so-called "neutrals" say they have both consoles, yet they're always bashing Sony. I think they've been starved to death and forced to buy PS4 just to play good games, that's the only explanation. I've never bought anything outside Sony since PS1 because I didn't have too.
 
cudiye

cudiye

Member
I can’t even fathom why people compare these graphics cards to consoles like the PS5 and XSX. Its a losing game when the graphics cards alone cost as much as the console itself; theoretically. Of course its going to perform better when it costs the same if not more than the damn console. Such a dumb comparison. Don’t High end PC’s cost at least 1k to build in its entirety when a damn console only cost $400-$600 at its highest? Lol
 
Entroyp

Entroyp

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
It's funny that most of our so-called "neutrals" say they have both consoles, yet they're always bashing Sony. I think they've been starved to death and forced to buy PS4 just to play good games, that's the only explanation. I've never bought anything outside Sony since PS1 because I didn't have too.
Click to expand...

Plus, it doesn’t strike me like Sony ever chased the power crown. No hints on interviews, articles, youtube videos... nothing.

What it looks to me is that they put together a system that is easy to use and fast as hell so Sony’s first party devs could shine.
 
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Wraith Phantom

Wraith Phantom

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
It's funny that most of our so-called "neutrals" say they have both consoles, yet they're always bashing Sony. I think they've been starved to death and forced to buy PS4 just to play good games, that's the only explanation. I've never bought anything outside Sony since PS1 because I didn't have too.
Click to expand...

Them dudes are frauds. No such thing as "neutral". The N64 was the last none PS console I bought. After that nothing but playstation. I look at the switch from time to time ,but meh never pull the card out. I rather just hopelessly dream & hope for a new PSP with ps4 pro esq specs ssd ,oled screen, big battery. PSNOW with PS1-PS4 games ,play my PS4 library. Just be in at the airport, resort, eurostar, train just going for platinums ,playing street fighter, tekken

 
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Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
It's funny that most of our so-called "neutrals" say they have both consoles, yet they're always bashing Sony. I think they've been starved to death and forced to buy PS4 just to play good games, that's the only explanation. I've never bought anything outside Sony since PS1 because I didn't have too.
Click to expand...

I have two PS4s, two Xbox One Ss, a Switch and a gaming PC.

I'll still praise the godstation, dogpile on Xbox, call out the Switch babies and shit on PC. Openly.

What you own means nothing lol
 
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Dave_at_Home

Dave_at_Home

Member
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
there is a scale on this chart though. And where you plotted them does not even show the 18% TF difference, nor the 44% on CUs, not even the 25% bandwidth difference. Let alone all of those combined. And I even endow you the variable clockspeeds.
But I guess you probably must have added the "exclusives power" ingredient :]

Anyway, my video analysis is coming up, almost uploaded now



If you are going to see it this way, they also crushed the ps5 ssd thingy, didn't they?
Just imagine how the ssd pc market will be in a year from now...
Click to expand...
Maybe. You're asking the wrong guy on that one. It may take the 4000 series to fully realize that, but I dunno. It's simply a matter of time as always in the PC space.

Point I was trying to make was purely in relation to Microsoft and their marketing. Live by the power narrative, die by the power narrative. Meanwhile, Sony like, "Hey! Check out this new controller and games!"
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Wraith Phantom said:
Them dudes are frauds. No such thing as "neutral". The N64 was the last none PS console I bought. After that nothing but playstation. I look at the switch from time to time ,but meh never pull the card out. I rather just hopelessly dream & hope for a new PSP with ps4 pro esq specs ssd ,oled screen, big battery. PSNOW with PS1-PS4 games ,play my PS4 library. Just be in at the airport, resort, eurostar, train just going for platinums ,playing street fighter, tekken

Click to expand...


I agree. No neutrals except for maybe a rare exception. We all have some bias (also called a preference) and it's how we are. The DIFFERENCE is that some people's preference seems to become tied to their self identity or something and that's probably not healthy.

Oh and major props on your GIF!
 
TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
Dave_at_Home said:
Maybe. You're asking the wrong guy on that one. It may take the 4000 series to fully realize that, but I dunno. It's simply a matter of time as always in the PC space.

Point I was trying to make was purely in relation to Microsoft and their marketing. Live by the power narrative, die by the power narrative. Meanwhile, Sony like, "Hey! Check out this new controller and games!"
Click to expand...
Their marketing for xbox though has to do with console space. For PC space, they publish everything there too.
Anyways,

My masterpiece for this thread! My Magnum Opus Deep Analysis on PS5 vs XBOX is ready. So sit down yo' ass and enjoy:

 
DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
IntentionalPun said:
I'm talking about the idea that some $599-1500 graphics cards announcements will suddenly be the catalyst to "kill Xbox."

It's just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

It's the silliest thing I've seen on here yet.

The reasons to purchase Xbox are the same as they've been.

1). You are a console gamer.
2). You like Xbox exclusives, Halo, Gears, Forza, SoT, BattleToads, etc. (IE actual games not interactive movies :messenger_winking_tongue:)
3). You like GamePass and want to continue the best value in gaming on in to next-gen.
4). Your friends list and access to the best online experience.
5). You have a lot of software in the ecosystem and would like to carry that forward with the best BC available.

It's also funny the way some seem surprised that the consoles are only mid-range with the GPU announcements. You could see this coming from a mile away. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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cudiye

cudiye

Member
Dan_of_Rivia said:


This could be nothing, but my hunch is that we could see a gameplay demo reveal for Demon Soul's from Geoff Keighly and maybe even an interview with the studio.
Click to expand...

Considering Spiderman MM got rated recently along with Demon souls. I expect demon souls to be a launch game.

how good is demon souls? I heard it was the hardest souls game to play? I’ve platinumed BB and Sekiro. Played DS3but I couldn’t commit to getting all the miracles, rings and sorceries etc. I just hope Demon souls is fast paced like DS3, BB and sekiro.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Jitzu said:
Considering Spiderman MM got rated recently along with Demon souls. I expect demon souls to be a launch game.

how good is demon souls? I heard it was the hardest souls game to play? I’ve platinumed BB and Sekiro. Played DS3but I couldn’t commit to getting all the miracles, rings and sorceries etc. I just hope Demon souls is fast paced like DS3, BB and sekiro.
Click to expand...

One of the nastiest features of Demon Souls was something called World Tendency. Basically the more you die the harder the game will get. But on the other hand you will gain better chances of getting good loot. And to reverse the effect you have to kill the bosses. A funny thing about world tendency is that some weapons can only be obtained with a good world tendency (forgot what it's actually called sorry) or a bad world tendency.
 
cudiye

cudiye

Member
MasterCornholio said:
One of the nastiest features of Demon Souls was something called World Tendency. Basically the more you die the harder the game will get. But on the other hand you will gain better chances of getting good loot. And to reverse the effect you have to kill the bosses. A funny thing about world tendency is that some weapons can only be obtained with a good world tendency (forgot what it's actually called sorry) or a bad world tendency.
Click to expand...
I heard a few people mention the reason demon souls is difficult was due to how unforgiving the checkpoint system was from a boss location. I trust bluepoint to fix the bonfire locations.
 
Dave_at_Home

Dave_at_Home

Member
MasterCornholio said:
One of the nastiest features of Demon Souls was something called World Tendency. Basically the more you die the harder the game will get. But on the other hand you will gain better chances of getting good loot. And to reverse the effect you have to kill the bosses. A funny thing about world tendency is that some weapons can only be obtained with a good world tendency (forgot what it's actually called sorry) or a bad world tendency.
Click to expand...
Will Demon Souls utilize 10.23 flops? If not I'm getting Dreamcast.

I absolutely loved Bloodborne and remains the only PlayStation game I've platinum'd. I don't know if I have it in me again to die as quickly as the SSD and I/O in this fucking machine allows me to.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Dave_at_Home said:
Will Demon Souls utilize 10.23 flops? If not I'm getting Dreamcast.

I absolutely loved Bloodborne and remains the only PlayStation game I've platinum'd. I don't know if I have it in me again to die as quickly as the SSD and I/O in this fucking machine allows me to.
Click to expand...

No game will reach 10.23 TFlops. That's the theoretical max of the system and is only obtainable in the most ideal if circumstances. Depending on how efficient the PS5 is it can get pretty close. Same thing for the XSX because saturating all the CUs perfectly to reach 12Tflops is impossible to do in real life. Just a theoretical max.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
I will address this only briefly (because of the overall extended denial and anger this subject causes), but I am not agreeing with you here at all.
I have also noticed the change of coloring/texturing while ratchet falls down the various holes.
I would never though take that as the end of the loading sequence
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The sequence of words you have put together really does not make any sense, i mean no offence if English is not your first language. The end of the loading sequence is when you can see the world in full view with dynamic agents interacting within it. And that falls right about 2 seconds and 9 frames or 69 frames. The world had already loaded even before it comes into full view as you can see dynamic agents moving in it.

TheGreatWhiteShark said:
To give a very brief example, its like saying that the second -or the frame, to talk in your way of counting things- Shepard enters the elevator in mass effect, the entire level he's going to has already loaded,
but then you spend a minute or two so that you just can marvel the character model, chit-chat with the other characters, or that you may listen to what the radio will say in order to advance bits of the story.
Click to expand...
I am literally not saying that. Why are you bringing Mass Effect long elevator rides and comparing it to a PS5 game? Lets put things in a little perspective.

Mass Effect came out in 2007 on Xbox 360 and PS3.
Xbox 360 12x DVD = 15MB/s
PS3 2x Bluray = 9MB/s
PS5 SSD 5.5GB/s

It will take Xbox 360 12x DVD roughly 50 seconds to fill its 512MB RAM, assuming nothing else is happening. But its a game and lots of things are happening in the background like decompression and other game systems. That was why Sony included hard drives in PS3 and later Microsoft with 360 to supplement.

Senior level designer at BioWare and the man responsible for the Normandy and the elevators

Dusty Everman said:
"Working elevators and airlocks are a much nicer and immersive experience than load screens. if they are quick," he told me this week over e-mail. "That was our level design philosophy for the Citadel and the Normandy in ME1, and, for the majority of the project, they worked great. They were quick. They were cool."

"However, as development progressed, the elevators got slower and slower to cover content streaming, and, by the time we realized they would be so painfully slow, it was too late to replace them with a better system. In ME2 and ME3, the Normandy and Citadel had load screens. Lesson learned".
Click to expand...

PS5 5.5GB/s SSD will fill 16GB of RAM in 3 seconds that's even without compression. The design methods used to hide loading during the Xbox 360/PS3 to PS4/Xbox One generation is not going to apply anymore. Its no longer about hiding load times but finding creative ways to transition between levels. So no, not even the same thing.

My favorite transition thus far is from The Medium
adPPBOY.gif
 
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Great Hair

Great Hair

Banned
kretos said:
MS requires gold for f2p games while Sony and Nintendo don't? i thought MS is a pro consumer company

Click to expand...


I agree, a shitty move to paygate apps.

But i´d start to monetize the F2P folks as well (sounds harsh, but it´s bizniz). Sony has lost of $$$ in the past 14 years by neglecting it.
  • Variables, Input
  • 110mill. PS4
  • 50mill. PS+ subscriber?
  • 60mill. non subscriber. of which 50% are F2P (just an estimate)
  • Number crunching
  • 50*$45 PS+ = $2.25billions from PS+ per year
  • 60:2*$45 = $1.35billions lost per year, 40% lost revenue
  • 2.25+1.35 = $3.6bill. total, if F2P were paying customers, 2020
  • 14 years of not charging F2P user
  • 14 years *$1.35bill (lost revenue 2020) = $19bill. (max. using 2020 basis)
  • 19 : 2.5 = easily <8 billion lost in 14 years (estimate)
 
Lethal01

Lethal01

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
How does that even work? Using both hardware and using cheaper RT software together will always give you the edge when it's already pretty minimal HW-wise due to faster clocks.
Click to expand...

The point is if you are saying that Sony had the edge due to software then it's not impossible for Microsoft to just use better, cheaper software.

Personally I think there are probably cool customizations to the PS5 RT hardware but i'm addressing the claim that it's software that's going to make PS5 do better.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
DaGwaphics said:
It's the silliest thing I've seen on here yet.

The reasons to purchase Xbox are the same as they've been.

1). You are a console gamer.
2). You like Xbox exclusives, Halo, Gears, Forza, SoT, BattleToads, etc. (IE actual games not interactive movies :messenger_winking_tongue:)
3). You like GamePass and want to continue the best value in gaming on in to next-gen.
4). Your friends list and access to the best online experience.
5). You have a lot of software in the ecosystem and would like to carry that forward with the best BC available.

It's also funny the way some seem surprised that the consoles are only mid-range with the GPU announcements. You could see this coming from a mile away. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Click to expand...

Those reasons are weak.

1. Buy a PS4 or Switch and get better exclusive games.

2. No Xbox exclusive has ever been nominated for GOTY at the Game Awards.
32 games over 6 years, not 1 of these so called "actual games" has even been nominated, let alone won. This year will add 6 more nominees, making that the 38 best games of the last 7 years. None exclusive to Xbox.

3. GamePass costs twice as much as PS Now. Lacking most of the high quality current gen games, costs double. Not a great value.

4. Xbox Live is no better than PSN. Now Xbox Live costs twice as much PS+. Free to play isn't even free on Xbox. Cross play is removing any need to stay on Xbox to play with Xbox friends.

Xbox will need to do much better in the future.
 
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