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DF: All Developers Extremely Happy With PS5 Development But Not All Are Happy With XSX Development

bender

What time is it?
People calling other people fanboys = the true fanboys.

Checkmate!

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Next time Uncle Phil puts his hand on your thigh, then implores you to keep it a secret, do as he says.

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Vick

Gold Member
Still, being more difficult to develop on doesn’t mean much.
PS3 was hell for most devs yet there’s things on the platform which perfectly hold up a decade later. We’ll see insane shit on Series X.
 
Playstation5 might be the perfect TV complement for the Switch.

Nothing against MS...I can't wait to play their games on better consoles.

MS is smart...I like the idea of them funding great games you can play anywhere. I will still buy their products. I'm just not interested in xbox.
 
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Mister Wolf

Member
Looking forward to their comparison videos starting with Assassin's Creed and Watch Dogs. Especially Watch Dogs because of the raytracing will definitely cause inconsistent performance hits depending on the area you're in. That will be mitigated by dynamic resolution for sure.
 

ZehDon

Member
Richard describes developers aren’t enjoying changing from XDKs to GDKs, rather then there being something wrong with developing for the XSX.

I know developers who prefer to write their HTML in VS - like a barbarian - rather than VSC using the dedicated extensions. Why? Because people don‘t like change.
 

bender

What time is it?
I don't care if you like Sony. What I care about is when people like John Linneman get bullied off the forum by Sony stans buying into conspiracy theories.

I wish we'd clean up some of our behavior to help prevent this, but John seems pretty thin skinned and unwilling to take valid criticism.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
Richard describes developers aren’t enjoying changing from XDKs to GDKs, rather then there being something wrong with developing for the XSX.

I know developers who prefer to write their HTML in VS - like a barbarian - rather than VSC using the dedicated extensions. Why? Because people don‘t like change.
That doesn’t explain all of them liking Sony’s though.

Well I guess except the Capcom devs.
 

Night.Ninja

Banned
That Dusk Golem is some bullshitter. Everything he said was basically proven false.... Silent Hill, PS5 price and now the whole notion of Xbox being easier to develop for.

What about that choppy RE8 showing, the sony event in the first half of September and all the street fighter info?

Thing with you hardcore fans you pick and choose whatever fits with the narrative you want to run.
 

ZehDon

Member
That doesn’t explain all of them liking Sony’s though.

Well I guess except the Capcom devs.
Listen to Richard again. Sony’s DK didn’t change - if you were used to the PS4 DK, you’re good to go on PS5 out of the gate.
There’s certainly value in that, no arguments there. But just because people aren’t used to something new doesn’t make it bad, even if they themselves will tell you they don’t like it. They don’t like it because it’s changed - and people don’t like things that are different. Add in the fact that it’s designed for cross platform, thus has an extra layer of potential complexity, and it’s easy to see why some developers might not like it, while others couldn’t be happier.
To further my previous example, VSC can do whatever you want it do, it’s just a bit more modular than VS so requires a bit
more effort to get it doing what you want. That added complexity scares off a not-insignificant number off developers, who stick to trusty VS, because they know it inside and out. They lose the potential efficiency gains VSC offers, but they’re no less effective because they can still use VS to get the job done.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
What about that choppy RE8 showing, the sony event in the first half of September and all the street fighter info?

Thing with you hardcore fans you pick and choose whatever fits with the narrative you want to run.
Maybe he watched the footage and made up some shit.... it's more likely, now that everything else he said turns out to be a lie.
 

DinoD

Member
Dont forget gimped GPU.

Hi,

Yes. Its just not as big deal as RAM. Series S was never going to push for 4k visuals and RT. These things are easily turned on/off by developers. The RAM disparity is more serious as it could potentially put the I/O limitations on game's engine (SSD->RAM). This could manifest itself by: developers using the lowest common denominator, some games only working on X series or the significant amount of effort (at least initially)on the 3rd party developer to maintain 2 different streaming (I/O) regimes in the game engine.
 
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MarkMe2525

Gold Member
That doesn’t explain all of them liking Sony’s though.

Well I guess except the Capcom devs.
Let's imagine this scenario...
Bill has 20 apples, 10 are rotten.
Ted has 20 apples, 2 are rotten.

Grim Reaper is hungry and decides to take either Bill or Teds' apples. He decides to check a few first to see who's would be better.

Grim Reaper randomly looks at 5 of Bills apples and all are fresh and delicious. Grim then takes a look at Teds' and out of the 5 he looks at, 2 are rotten and awful. Grim takes Bills apples... He is sad... Half were rotten.

Don't be Grim. Incomplete info is bad Info. Reject any conclusions derived from incomplete info.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
Listen to Richard again. Sony’s DK didn’t change - if you were used to the PS4 DK, you’re good to go on PS5 out of the gate.
There’s certainly value in that, no arguments there. But just because people aren’t used to something new doesn’t make it bad, even if they themselves will tell you they don’t like it. They don’t like it because it’s changed - and people don’t like things that are different. Add in the fact that it’s designed for cross platform, thus has an extra layer of potential complexity, and it’s easy to see why some developers might not like it, while others couldn’t be happier.
To further my previous example, VSC can do whatever you want it do, it’s just a bit more modular than VS so requires a bit
more effort to get it doing what you want. That added complexity scares off a not-insignificant number off developers, who stick to trusty VS, because they know it inside and out. They lose the potential efficiency gains VSC offers, but they’re no less effective because they can still use VS to get the job done.
I get that but it doesn’t explain Capcom’s case then. If nothing is changed then why are they struggling? It’s well past rumors because you can see it in previous two trailers.

Something has definitely changed.
 

Night.Ninja

Banned
Maybe he watched the footage and made up some shit.... it's more likely, now that everything else he said turns out to be a lie.

Didn't he make the original comment before the first showing of RE8? I'm not to sure?

And he went into great detail about the game before we even knew about it
 
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Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Microsoft's check must have bounced. Seriously though, this has been known for awhile for those paying attention. While moving to a new dev environment may initially offer some challenge, in the long run it will make it much easier to bring games to all of Microsoft's platforms and is a good call imo.
 
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GHG

Gold Member
That would go some way to explaining why we are yet to see anything significant running on the Series X.

Microsoft are not usually the type to stay quiet if they have something good up their sleeve.

Everything will be out in the open in under 2 months from now so it will be interesting to see the results come November.
 
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Redlight

Member
"the same development environment as PS4 and you scale up from there"
Scaling up from PS4. Interesting. Isn't that going to hold next-gen back?

It seems that developers for PS5 are happy because it's easy, while SOME Xbox developers aren't happy because they have to target multiple versions. That would be more work and who wants to do more work?

Importantly no-one is claiming it can't be done or that the extra work somehow nullifies the extra power of the Series X.

BTW, it's the power gap that seems to be behind the claims by Duskgolem, not the ease of use of the development kit. RE8 seems to run much better on Series X hardware than it does on PS5 because the Series X is significantly more powerful.

The issues on that game may well be overcome by release, however that power gap isn't going anywhere over the next seven years or so.
 

ZehDon

Member
I get that but it doesn’t explain Capcom’s case then. If nothing is changed then why are they struggling? It’s well past rumors because you can see it in previous two trailers.

Something has definitely changed.
I’m not going to speculate on why one Developer or another is or isn’t having rumoured issues. Until folks can go bands on with the title and see the finished game, it’s all speculation.
Why did Halo Infinite look like a launch Xbox One title? No idea. Hoping we find out one day.
 
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Redlight

Member
It is not anecdotal. He is a well known guy who literally works on the very subject of video game performance . His input has some weight wether u like it or not.
The OP is the very definition of anecdotal.

EDIT: I was way too slow. :)
 
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Sony is the front runner heading in the gen so naturally the industry will cop pleas for the PS5 before they acknowledge anything different. I do not believe early reports of any console because if I did, I’d be shitting on the Switch because everyone here said it’d be trash.
 
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semicool

Banned
This was my KEY takeaway from that info:


Ps5 dev kit doesn't include PC gaming like it does for Xbox series. That might be the difference. Well ps5 games are coming for PC too so maybe they, playstation exclusives, will suffer(Horizon PC port anyone?) because the dev kit for ps5 doesn't cover PC like it does for Xbox. So in that sense, comparing dev kit dev experience is apples and oranges because we aren't comparing equal features or range of machines where the Xbox dev kit covers PC at this time.
 
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REDRZA MWS

Member
An SDK for a single platform with one set of specs has a lot less to worry about. But I like love to know how MS fucked it up, as all the right ingredients seem to be there for them. they have visual studio which is pretty great as the IDE, and both systems essentially use the same Direct X calls now for graphics, so it really shouldn't be any harder than iPad and iPhone cross development which is a synch in xcode.

Did they fuck anything up? Maybe the new SDK will be much better and easier in every way once devs have time with it. MS is a SOFTWARE company. This sounds fishy.
 

DinoD

Member
People have been doubting the real SONY saviors... Mark Cerny... this guy literally saved SONY after Krazy Ken got the boot.


Imagine Ken developing CELL 2 and bankrupting SONY

I imagine that CELL 2 would have been an incremental improvement over CELL, and not different architecture. So programming tools would have only matured and become better. In a vacuum. It would have also made sense to continue due to ROI. I suspect the main reason why Sony, MS and Apple dropped PowerPC architecture (IBM) was due to IBM not committing to long term road map (investment) into the architecture and wasn't willing to scale. X86 architecture seemed like a safe bet. Ticked all boxes in terms of cost, ease of use, scalability and long term road map.
 

Matsuchezz

Member
I remember from the Cerny GDC presentation, he stated that it should take developers 1 month to get up to speed with PS5 dev kits. This only confirms that Sony are killing it with their Dev kits and this coupled with their WWS powerhouses, they all will once again produce high quality software that those who appreciate their game offerings will be playing awesome games for another generation and until the very end of it, as we will see with PS4 we thought the last of us part 2 and Ghost of Tsushima were the last AAA from SIE too arrive on the console, but Spiderman MM and HFW are yet to be released.
 
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