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Theory: Why The PlayStation 5 Is So Large

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Whereas the expandable storage drives with which Microsoft's Xbox Series X and Y will be compatible will be proprietary, the expandable storage drives with which Sony's PlayStation 5 will be compatible will be practically any NVME PCIe Solid State Drive that can fit into its chassis.

Hence, because Microsoft has restricted the Xbox Series X & Y to one type of expandable storage, thereby knowing exactly what form factor their consoles have to accommodate, they didn't have to make either machine larger than they have wound up being. Furthermore, because the required speed of their consoles' expandable storage is only 2.5 GB/s, the form factor of the expandable storage isn't very large, as it doesn't produce much heat and therefore doesn't require a heatsink.

Xbox-Series-X-Storage-Expansion-Card.jpg


On the other hand, Sony has no way of knowing which expandable storage drives that users of PlayStation 5 will buy and therefore cannot predict exactly how small or large users' choices will be. However, due to the required speed of expandable storage drives for PlayStation 5 being 7 GB/s, Sony can at least assume that they will be on the larger end of the range of sizes possible due to their heat output requiring them to have relatively large heatsinks.

2019-09-16-image.jpg


Hence, the PlayStation 5 is as large as it is due to its internal bay for expandable storage drives needing to be large enough to accommodate the largest NVME PCIe Solid State Drives (as well as because it has a robust cooling system to accommodate the heat output of its GPU's top speed of 2.23GHz).
 
One can go on and on about the size of the console. The Series X is just as large. It's not the same height as PS5 and it makes up for that in terms of overall volume.

Both are much more powerful than their predecessors and that means better cooling is needed so the overall dimensions will get bigger.

Anyone expecting these consoles to be PS4 size is kidding themselves. Expect future revisions of both to be the same size and next next gen consoles to be even larger. They may even be mini PC boxes.
 
One can go on and on about the size of the console. The Series X is just as large. It's not the same height as PS5 and it makes up for that in terms of overall volume.
I dont know what you're smoking thinking the PS5 and XSX are the same volume.

If by volume you're talking about the amount of space they occupy theres a pic floating around here that shows the SeX is 6.something liters and the PS5 is something like 11 liters.

If by volume you're talking about noise history shows the PS5 will probably be loud as fuck and XSX should be whisper quiet.
 
I’m curious now how expandable or even upgradable storage is possible on this thing. I suspect it will be a shitstorm of bad press.
 
Hmm not sure. I’m not going to pretend to understand it, but I would have thought it would have more to do with targeting power consumption rather than temperature and perhaps the high clocks speeds of the GPU?
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
What a ridiculous theory. 2.5 HDD is larger than any SDD in that photo, yet it is inside every PS4.
Yes, but SSDs have unique shapes and uniquely shaped heatsinks. So, the internal bay has to be able to accommodate a variety of form factors. Also, for all we know, the internal bay probably has more than one PCIe slot and therefore may be able to accommodate more than one storage drive.
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Hmm not sure. I’m not going to pretend to understand it, but I would have thought it would have more to do with targeting power consumption rather than temperature and perhaps the high clocks speeds of the GPU?
I believe that it's both reasons; I actually mention the cooling system needing to be robust in order to accommodate tye GPU's heat output. However, I think that without the storage drive bay, the console's size would be more tolerable by people.
 

FeiRR

Banned
Yes, but SSDs have unique shapes and uniquely shaped heatsinks. So, the internal bay has to be able to accommodate a variety of form factors. Also, for all we know, the internal bay probably has more than one PCIe slot and therefore may be able to accommodate more than one storage drive.
The last sink in your photo on the right is an overkill. Don't expect such a thing to fit into the bay. I'm betting on the expansion bay being close to the APU, just like the internal SSD chips. My bet is on the bay being under the white fins which will be removable, one side of the console. It should be somewhere inside the air flow channel. Those sinks you show in PC cases are exactly in such spot, close to the MB and inside the BTX airflow. I also don't believe there will be more than one expansion slot.
 

Tarin02543

Member
Ofcourse it's the cooling solution that needs the space.

I think we will not even get a slim as shrinking the soc to 5nm will still produce alot of heat.
 
3090-1-1200x720.jpg


It's the Cooling for the GPU that makes it a lot more bigger. Also bigger cooling = less noise and everything has to be covered up tight so no open fans anywhere because idiots will throw these boxes around like its nothing.
Ugh, what?

Please tell us about the cooling method since no one else outside of Sonys hardware team seems to know anything about it.

And who's going to be throwing around a giant PS5?
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
The last sink in your photo on the right is an overkill. Don't expect such a thing to fit into the bay. I'm betting on the expansion bay being close to the APU, just like the internal SSD chips. My bet is on the bay being under the white fins which will be removable, one side of the console. It should be somewhere inside the air flow channel. Those sinks you show in PC cases are exactly in such spot, close to the MB and inside the BTX airflow. I also don't believe there will be more than one expansion slot.
Proximity to the internal cooling system does not negate the benefits of a heatsink.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Ugh, what?

Please tell us about the cooling method since no one else outside of Sonys hardware team seems to know anything about it.

And who's going to be throwing around a giant PS5?

More heat = bigger heatsink its not that hard.

And yes these boxes are thrown around because they are used by kids all day long. Which makes the need of that box also to be more robust and abuse proof. That's why u don't see big fans like on GPU's on the top of a console with open area's where stuff can get stuck in etc. So size on top of it increases or power target decreases.
 

Calverz

Member
Is this thread real? You do realise that image you used is all the same type of nvme. Some just have really large and dumb heatsinks.
There is no correlation to the size of the console and expandable storage. Its to down to cooling coz shit gonna run hot.
 

FeiRR

Banned
Proximity to the internal cooling system does not negate the benefits of a heatsink.
I'll give you an illustration for better understanding. This is BTX airflow. For next gen consoles, turn it by 90 degrees, the flow will be bottom -> up. Unless the console is on its side, then it will be side to side.

pIxTmcr.png


You can't insert anything under the internal cooling but you can place it in the airflow. Of course NVME drives with a sink will be better than without, they just need to fit in the bay and Cerny said there will be a list of those that do so you don't have to try them yourself.
 
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More heat = bigger heatsink its not that hard.

And yes these boxes are thrown around because they are used by kids all day long. Which makes the need of that box also to be more robust and abuse proof. That's why u don't see big fans like on GPU's on the top of a console with open area's where stuff can get stuck in etc. So size on top of it increases or power target decreases.
I feel like I have seen a big fan on top of a console or two recently... hmm where was that...

And the top is the best place to vent heat...

I feel like the consoles I saw it on were significantly smaller than PS5...

And in one case more powerful...

Oh right, the two new Xbox.

FYI if your kid is throwing consoles you need to throw your kid. Most kids I know wouldn't dare throw a console anyway since that's something thats actually important to them.
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
I'll give you an illustration for better understanding. This is BTX airflow. For next gen consoles, turn it by 90 degrees, the flow will be bottom -> up. Unless the console is on its side, then it will be side to side.

pIxTmcr.png


You can't insert anything under the internal cooling but you can place it in the airflow. Of course NVME drives with a sink will be better than without, they just need to fit in the bay and Cerny said there will be a list of those that do so you don't have to try them yourself.
We'll see, but I don't think that Sony would place the expansion bay for additional storage somewhere that would expose the PCB to the user; I think that it would be somewhere isolated from the PCB.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
Sony are in charge of accrediting drives to be compatible with their hardware. If they want them to be a certain size (dimension) or speed (GBps) then they just certify on that basis. I doubt they would let that determine the size of their console. Truth is we won't know until we get the teardown.


According to Matt MacLaurin, the vice president of UX Design at PlayStation, the PS5 packs a lot more heat than the PS4 could even dream of.

“I’m really impressed by this design – however, in today’s times, people seek portability and convenience,” wrote one commenter, seeking answers as to why the PS5 is so much bigger than its predecessor. “The performance in the PS4 was amazing. Why make the new product bigger and bulkier?”

“Thermals,” replied MacLaurin. “This gen is little supercomputers. While the 7nm process delivers amazing heat performance for the power, the power is very extreme.”

“This tech is still so fresh it throws a lot of heat so we need room to dissipate,” MacLaurin expanded in another comment.
 

Md Ray

Member
We'll see, but I don't think that Sony would place the expansion bay for additional storage somewhere that would expose the PCB to the user; I think that it would be somewhere isolated from the PCB.
They don't have to expose the whole motherboard PCB to the user. It can be like a laptop solution where you just expose only part of the PCB where the slot is located. Kinda like this:
acer_aspire_e15_m2_screwing_in-100751033-large.jpg


I suppose you just have to pop out this top shell in order to access the NVMe slot:
ps5-side-panel-image-2.jpg


Sony has done this in the past (letting you take the top shell out or at least a part of it) for e.g.:
514c3ded3865f4d154778e944b5483af.jpg
 
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yurinka

Member
I assume that for consoles like this ones you have two options: smaller super noisy fans, or huge fans, or huge heatsinks.

I assume they went with huge heatsinks because it's the most silent option.
 

Md Ray

Member
The clock speeds
PS5 GPU is based on RDNA 2.

RDNA 2 can clock pretty high. A 40 CU RDNA 2 GPU is listed with a 2.5 GHz frequency.
And an 80 CU GPU clocks just a little over 2 GHz.
 
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All_Might

Member
If the PlayStation 5 is less noisy, I don’t care how big it is really. I dig the design of the console, but man the PlayStation 4 simply gets too loud. The reason for the size of the console is to accommodate for the heat that the apu produces. The console is rated for ~340 watts of power and that’s with a gpu that has 40% less cu’s then the XSX. Meaning in order to bring temperatures down it’s cooler needs to be quite beefy and with Mark Cerny explicitly mentioning the noise from the PlayStation 4/Pro, I am pretty sure they wanted to make sure this does not happen again. We have seen patents of the dev kits if you remember, those had quite the massive coolers sitting atop the apu, with multiple fans blowing air. They could have adopted the same strategy here, but many smaller fans increase risk of having one of them fail, which is why I believe in the retail unit they went for fewer but larger fans. Or simply one really big fan with a controlled airflow design.
EZqrSeyXkAIroMl-1237x1536.jpg
 
PS5 GPU is based on RDNA 2.

RDNA 2 can clock pretty high. A 40 CU RDNA 2 GPU is listed with a 2.5 GHz frequency.
And an 80 CU GPU clocks just a little over 2 GHz.
I'd just like to point out the obvious that XSX is also based on the same RDNA2 so everything you're saying applies to it also.

And with that being the case people are right to be concerned because the MS solution is so much better here so what else is wrong with PS5s hardware design? Why is it seemingly so inferior comparison? At the end of the day why is it nearly twice as big and still 25% less powerful?
 
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FeiRR

Banned
PS5 GPU is based on RDNA 2.

RDNA 2 can clock pretty high. A 40 CU RDNA 2 GPU is listed with a 2.5 GHz frequency.
And an 80 CU GPU clocks just a little over 2 GHz.
You're giving facts to a moron troll, waste of your time.
 

Md Ray

Member
I'd just like to point out the obvious that XSX is also based on the same RDNA2 so everything you're saying applies to it also.

And with that being the case people are right to be concerned because the MS solution is so much better here so what else is wrong with PS5s hardware design? Why is it seemingly so inferior comparison?
I guess they could have gone with higher than 1825 MHz for 52 CUs but that would mean even bigger heatsink therefore bigger console than SX ended up being. That should explain why PS5 is so big?

What do you mean by inferior in comparison?
 
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