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Setsuna Mudou
Member
"It was said"? Navi 10 is RDNA1, so it could never be Navi 10.
geordiemp
Member
The lite refers to the lower spec process I believe, hence the lower 1.9 Ghz, not the size of the IF cache. Ps5 has a bigger bus than Navi 22 (only 192 vs 256 ps5) but ps5 will have a smaller L2 for sure, no way its 96 MB..
Lets hope Cerny has done his calcs and balanced it for ray trace performance per die cost $. What do you think ?
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
I don't think Bethesda are very talented. This whole gen has been a disaster for them. Their games often have very poor core gameplay.
I hope what you are saying is right, and that less pressure on them to deliver on schedule means we will get better, more polished games from them, but I'm not holding my breath.
Dave_at_Home
Member
Did you read the study or are we not on the same page here? I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of me being salty. I'm simply referring to what people are perceiving in the double-blind study as it relates to films. As for gaming, if you're excited about 8k gaming, than all the more power to you. The real test is being able to tell the difference between 4k and 8k on monitor. If you can, cool, but is it worth the investment? If you think so, again, more power to you. No salt here.
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Vaztu
Member
What does Navi 21 Lite even mean ? Does this tie into what the twitter user said ? Or does it disprove that rumour ?
The Twitter Rumour:
MasterCornholio
Member
From what I've read about the DRAM the most important part is it's ability to store a map of the drive on it. That way the controller knows exactly where to get the data from. The drive map can be stored in other locations such as he ram itself but that adds additional latency. This is why many people recommend buying an SSD with DRAM.
geordiemp
Member
Thats not fair to speculate.
The table I posted is PC parts information grabbed from amd drivers and its just speculation on what AMD might be presenting on 28th. Navi21 lite looks like a DUV part or whatever the lower clock entails for a 56 CU PC part..
Both consoles are Heavily CUSTOM RDNA2 and its unfair to link them to PC parts even if some numbers have a canny resemblence..
That twitter leak is a well known leaker, everybody has been their from rogame to Jim at Adored and tech tubers, but its just a tweet with no background or explantion.
Its just as unfair to spread FUD about XSX as mis interpretation of github was for ps5. AMD reveal is not long now.
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ToadMan
Member
Yeah that was a crazy comment PS is “insignificant”.
PS platform being insignificant explains why there’s no Netflix or Spotify or any subscription apps on it at all.
I wonder why I even turn the thing on because it’s totally been bypassed by anyone selling content In the stampede to put it all on my phone because they hate the charges Sony makes...
PS is insignificant as a gaming platform is .... well it’s difficult to comprehend someone would say that on a gaming enthusiast forum.
sircaw
Banned
Vaztu
Member
Oh. I saw 56CUs and 1.9Ghz next to Navi Lite. So, I assumed it was XSX. Didn't realize its for PC.
Then there have been plenty AMD leaks recently, so I assumed that tweet was related to this. My bad.
Guess on 28th Oct things should be clear.
DaGwaphics
Member
Are we sure that Navi21 lite is a different piece of silicone? Or is this just a bin on Navi21? AMD will typically reduce clocks for each bin.
Loxus
Member
"If you see a similar discrete GPU available as a PC card at roughly the same time as we release our console that means our collaboration with AMD succeeded."
"In producing technology useful in both worlds it doesn't mean that we as Sony simply incorporated the pc part into our console."
Going by these two quotes from Mark Cerny, It sounds like AMD and Sony collaborated to make RDNA 2.
Based on RDNA 2 Sony made the PS5 with excusive features like Cache Scrubbers.
"If the ideas are sufficiently specific to what we're trying to accomplish like the GPU cache scrubbers I was talking about then they end up being just for us."
"If we bring concepts to AMD that are felt to be widely useful then they can be adopted into RDNA - and used broadly including in PC GPUs."
This quote seems like Navi 22 is based on the PS5.
Why I say that, it's because Sony may have influence AMD roadmap.
"But that feature set is malleable which is to say that we have our own needs for PlayStation and that can factor into what the AMD roadmap becomes. So collaboration is born."
All I can say is what ever RDNA 2 has, PS5 has and more.
geordiemp
Member
Your not binning a 80 CU part to 56. And the latest tweets are saying 2.4 Ghz, which is miles away from 1.9 Ghz.
Its likely EUV process litho around FinFET allows the higher clocks and more prceision around the gate structure in dep, implant and etch..... but costs more per wafer. DUV and EUV are interchangable, and you might need 5 or 6 layers and a heole lot more lthod setps to precisely define that geometry.....extra bucks to pay for the better process steps to get that performance.
But that s just speculation, but its a speculation thread and its AMD PC, subject so fair play. We will find out soon as AMD will have to explain 2,4 Ghz vs 1.9 Ghz. for the PC parts.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Minus whatever features they didn't deem necessary since it's a console and not a PC. I think this is what the Sony engineer was making a reference to.
sircaw
Banned
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
Xbox Series X SSD: SK Hynix 4D TLC NAND, Phison E19 memory controller
www.tweaktown.com
Great in depth article.
Xbox Series X SSD: SK Hynix 4D TLC NAND, Phison E19 memory controller
Xbox Series X/S consoles are optimized for read/write-heavy loads and increased durability thanks to TLC 4D NAND flash memory.
www.tweaktown.com
Great in depth article.
Moridianae
Member
On Bethesda:
I'm well aware of what Spencer has said, danced around, etc. That being put up front, I still have a small bit of faith they'll come to the PS5 in some form.
Sony has a ridiculously large fanbase(ex. millions of views in 24 hours for a UI?), so there is a MASSIVE potential for monetary gain there, akin to Minecraft still being present on PS4/PS5.
They certainly can make the investment back within their ecosystem as he said, but the PS base could ensure your investment is recouped much faster.
Bethesda, additionally, has faltered somewhat in their offerings, outside of Doom and Evil Within, arguably.
Fallout: 76 is only now a decent game--it was a dumpster fire for ages and a prime example of a game literally no one asked for when it comes to the Fallout world.
Skyrim is what it is, memes and all. While I still loved it, I felt it lost sight of the depth that older Elder Scrolls entries had.
It was missing loads of nuance for character uniqueness(no Acrobatics, Athletics, etc.) It was a very "mainstream" friendly Elder Scrolls, I felt. I still prefer Oblivion on a more in depth level if I were to choose.
I'm well aware of what Spencer has said, danced around, etc. That being put up front, I still have a small bit of faith they'll come to the PS5 in some form.
Sony has a ridiculously large fanbase(ex. millions of views in 24 hours for a UI?), so there is a MASSIVE potential for monetary gain there, akin to Minecraft still being present on PS4/PS5.
They certainly can make the investment back within their ecosystem as he said, but the PS base could ensure your investment is recouped much faster.
Bethesda, additionally, has faltered somewhat in their offerings, outside of Doom and Evil Within, arguably.
Fallout: 76 is only now a decent game--it was a dumpster fire for ages and a prime example of a game literally no one asked for when it comes to the Fallout world.
Skyrim is what it is, memes and all. While I still loved it, I felt it lost sight of the depth that older Elder Scrolls entries had.
It was missing loads of nuance for character uniqueness(no Acrobatics, Athletics, etc.) It was a very "mainstream" friendly Elder Scrolls, I felt. I still prefer Oblivion on a more in depth level if I were to choose.
DaGwaphics
Member
I guess we'll know soon. If they are using this silicone for 4 cards as hinted at by leakers, the bottom part might take substantial hits.
Loxus
Member
I don't Know exactly, but we can see where Navi 21 Lite is placed based on Komachi.
https://komachizaregoto.blogspot.com/2019/08/amd-gfx-id-which-generation-is-chip.html
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Xbox Series X SSD: SK Hynix 4D TLC NAND, Phison E19 memory controller
Xbox Series X SSD: SK Hynix 4D TLC NAND, Phison E19 memory controller
Xbox Series X/S consoles are optimized for read/write-heavy loads and increased durability thanks to TLC 4D NAND flash memory.
Great in depth article.
But Xbox uses only 2x PCIe 4.0 lanes instead of full 4x to make things worse.
MasterCornholio
Member
Xbox Series X SSD: SK Hynix 4D TLC NAND, Phison E19 memory controller
Xbox Series X SSD: SK Hynix 4D TLC NAND, Phison E19 memory controller
Xbox Series X/S consoles are optimized for read/write-heavy loads and increased durability thanks to TLC 4D NAND flash memory.
Great in depth article.
Yes it is. Lacking DRAM was obviously done to cut costs. We will see if it has any stuttering issues due to this which is they biggest advantage of having DRAM.
With the speeds that they are going with they only need two.
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geordiemp
Member
I think we should wait and see what is what before filling the Cerny bathtub, its too early for that.
We dont know all the details, just clues and part specs.
sircaw
Banned
geordiemp
Member
I would not call 2.4 and 2.5 GHz taking hits, they probably drop down to ps5 type frequences. At least we know ps5 is no where near pushing the boat on this process.
bitbydeath
Member
Really, really.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't Know exactly, but we can see where Navi 21 Lite is placed based on Komachi.
https://komachizaregoto.blogspot.com/2019/08/amd-gfx-id-which-generation-is-chip.html
I'm a little confused with Oberon. We know that Oberon is supposed to be the PS5s chip from the GitHub leak. According to Komachi Oberon is RDNA1 and not RDNA2. However Cerny said the CUs were RDNA2 ones.
With that said I don't know if that list is accurate or not because it's still saying that Oberon/PS5 is an RDNA1 chip instead of an RDNA2 chip.
DaGwaphics
Member
I've never seen a benchmark that showed a bit of difference between DRAM and DRAMLESS SSDs. Gaming doesn't fit the usage pattern that maximizes DRAM use. Basically the data being read needs to be cached already to make a difference. This is easy to do in productivity work, where you may use the same files over and over again over a period of time. Gaming tends to exhaust the cache, eliminating the benefit.
geordiemp
Member
The AMD drivers was a couple of weeks ago, its recent..
GitHib is years old and new silicon and revisions happen, Oberon could have had 10 revisions. 40 CU is up to 2.5 GHz now.
Both consoles are custom and will have had many silicon engineering samples and revisions.
RDNA2 is just building blocks of logic, both console makers can add or loose whatever they choose, and choose which process steps they want for their target design. Look at the parts today my friend
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Loxus
Member
Look again, it's not in RDNA 1.
It's on it's own, which gives credit to what Cerny is saying. "So collaboration is born."
MasterCornholio
Member
ToadMan
Member
The article says the Xsex has SRAM on the APU to overcome the lack of DRAM.
I wasn’t aware of that before if it’s accurate. Must’ve been mentioned or shown at the hot chips thing I guess.
MasterCornholio
Member
So why does the PS5 have DRAM if it's useless for gaming?
geordiemp
Member
And how old is that data - there probably was engineering tests done on multiple stages of RDNA1 to RDNA2....So what ?
Let github die, its old and out of date.
Whats exciting is what RDNA2 fully entails and what Amd reveal in a 2 weeks. How they got there over 3 years and what i looked like 2 years ago is irrelevant. ....who cares ?
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Epic Sax CEO
Banned
LivingD3AD
Member
PS5 is 5% larger than XSX, XSX is 7% larger than PS5D
MasterCornholio
Member
Hopefully on the 28 we get more clarification on RDNA2 in these consoles.
geordiemp
Member
He is a well known leaker with quite a few so called tech you tubers hovering around like flies on shit...but I agree its FUD without any explaination or detail and should be ingnored. We have the AMD RDNA2 reveal soon and lots to discuss, all will become clearer (a bit anyway).
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saintjules
Member
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DaGwaphics
Member
There is about 350mhz between the 5700xt and the 5600, maybe they figured they need more division to hit the target price points.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
You need 8K content or at least a 33+ MP photo to tell the difference between 4K and 8K. Seen it myself, and it's big.
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Probably an error but it would be cool if true.
geordiemp
Member
There is about 350mhz between the 5700xt and the 5600, maybe they figured they need more division to hit the target price points.
You cant take the variance of clocks for a different process and transplant them - especialy if the 2.4 Ghz is using more EUV precision and therefor there will be less critical dimensions distribution variance across wafers due to masks, layer thickness unformity is a different discussion especially for outside die for deposition.
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DaGwaphics
Member
You should ask Cerny. How the hell do I know.
I was just stating what can be seen in PC benchmarks. You can find several that compare the WD750 to the WD550 in gaming with nearly identical results (and in some cases the WD550 outperforms the WD750 since the path from the nand through the DRAM can add latency when the cache misses).
DaGwaphics
Member
I was referring to the possibility of there just being two pieces of silicone here in general, which is what all the reputable leakers are saying (from what I've seen). Most think there is a single silicone chip powering the N21 and N22 chips with binning for 4 specs each. So a total of 8 GPUs binned from two pieces of silicone. It's possible this isn't accurate at all, but it does fit the pattern of what AMD has been doing for years. A separate middle of the road die hasn't been a thing for them in quite a while. They could be bringing it back, who knows.
geordiemp
Member
You should ask Cerny. How the hell do I know.
I was just stating what can be seen in PC benchmarks. You can find several that compare the WD750 to the WD550 in gaming with nearly identical results (and in some cases the WD550 outperforms the WD750 since the path from the nand through the DRAM can add latency when the cache misses).
I read the DRam had other benefits for the SSD performance and longevity.
mancs
Member
Imagine someone , saying they have an 8k TV they invested in , and try and argue , it isn't worth the investment , ...pahhhhahaha(nonsense) less you can't afford it.
has nothing to do with the Xbox x 1080 powa resolution...
Hmmm , I smellllllll , bbbbbbbulllllll shitttttttt.....
has nothing to do with the Xbox x 1080 powa resolution...
Hmmm , I smellllllll , bbbbbbbulllllll shitttttttt.....
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
No, I think ps5 only reserves 2GB for OS. Developers are rumored to have 14GB for whatever use they want. I think 1-2GB of those 14GB might be used to store code and other assets or buffers.
What I will say is that if you're going to do diversity hiring, at least make sure the people you're hiring are capable of doing the job. Don't do like equifax and hire what was it a music major for head of security, or something like that?
running natively says microsoft taking full advantage of the console. Some rumors suggest they've had to actually use gcn to allow for running natively.
geordiemp
Member
Seems a long long way to go from 2.4 to 1.9, also why would you take such a CU hit, from 80 to 56 I must of been smoking next to those wafers lol
Just being funny,
no Navi 21 lite is not a bin, cant be, it has 14 CU per shader array, Navi 21 has 10, you cant bin by disabling CU and growing the shader array lol.#
Navi 21 will have bins, but not down to 56 CU and increasing the shader array size,.
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DaGwaphics
Member
Absolutely, much more efficient to run the base file system from there rather than doing that from system RAM.
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