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Gamepass Competitor: How about a Sony+? (PSNow+Funimation/Crunchyroll+Sony Movies&Shows)
- Thread starter megreotsugua
- Start date
megreotsugua
Banned
Yeah I mistakenly put "game pass competitor" in the title. This is actually a Netflix/Diney+ competitor with anime and video games to bolster its value. This has potential bigger market than game pass.
This is the kind of combination of service that will really bring gaming to the masses as opposed to what MS is doing. Sony won't have to compromise their $70 business in order to pull this off either. First party AAA games will not release day and date on the service. This is for the casuals who would like to subscribe to streaming apps for entertainment like movies, shows and animes who are also intrigued about playing AAA games.
Magic Carpet
Member
My PS+ expires on 7/21 I don't think I'll be renewing.
This bundle would peak my interest
I currently pay 10 bucks a month on VRV which includes crunchyroll, hidive content, rooster teeth and a few other smaller channels.
This bundle would peak my interest
I currently pay 10 bucks a month on VRV which includes crunchyroll, hidive content, rooster teeth and a few other smaller channels.
Mr Moose
Member
This. Couldn't give a shit about PSNow, but music, movies and anime? Sign me up. Gotta feed my inner weeb.
megreotsugua
Banned
I'd subscribe to that too. Music, movies and anime. Game streaming in the future I guess when infrastructure are already up to the task.
The thing is, Sony+ might find it hard to compete against Netflix and Disney+ if they only rely on movies, shows and anime. I was thinking game streaming would add a lot of value. Considering PSNow is not that much of a success to Sony, it won't hurt to incorporate that in the imaginary Sony+ subscription service.
I'd imagine a household of movie-enthusiast and occasional gamer Dad, TV show lover Mom, and a gamer and anime fan kid would find a lot of value in the service. The more entertainment variety, the more reason to subscribe and stay subscribe.
Netflix spends billions to keep their subscribers. I don't see how the crumbles of Sony's gaming division would cost Sony a lot. Well I guess the servers would cost them money.
Unless Sony wants to fight Netflix head to head with only movies and shows (plus anime). I mean that would be a fair fight but Sony has to double down on their shows and exclusive release on their service. They will spend a lot more to make a dent and to get noticed.
Including a form of PSNow is advertisement to the gaming crowd too.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
You are completely and utterly wrong.
Just wait when MS will purchase Valve
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megreotsugua
Banned
What do you think of this pricing similar to Netflix.
1. $8.99 (1 screen) - Movies, Shows, Anime, No games
2. $17.99 (4 screens) - Movies, Shows, Anime, Game Streaming (1 instance only)
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Don't forget that Sony is one of three biggest music publishers in the world.
Potential of course is big, I toyed with that idea too - I just wasn't that categorical regarding that GamePass is niche or that suddenly PS One or whatever will gain tens of millions subscribers over night.
Fundamental issue with the subscription service for Sony is that you need to produce the content. Whether it is TV series, anime, movies you need to produce them in huge quality. How many originals does Netflix have? How many TV series Disney has just announced? You need content and content should keep people on the service. Not to mention most of Sony games do not encourage multiple walkthroughs - people can live in TES for years, while how many people would replay UC4 for example? Or TLOU2? There are a lot of anime though, but I am not sure how often new anime is created - I recall it kinda seasonal or something.
The idea itself is valid though. Create a service PS One that combines anime, movies, TV series and games. It of course will cost more than 15$, but certainly less the threshold of 30-40$ per month. It will require sizeable investment from the Sony of course. Also a lot of Sony community does not like online gaming that much, hell they have probably the biggest amount of people who prefer physical over digital (though it is kinda changing these days which is good).
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Oddvintagechap
Member
“Funimation/Crunchyrol
Sony basically has monopolized this market.”
I think this is hilarious. What market? Both of their subscribers combined is minute. Nothing stops Netflix, Hulu, or any other service from having the same shows. Sony should make Crunchy Roll Anime focused, amd start adding non-anime to Funimation.
Sony basically has monopolized this market.”
I think this is hilarious. What market? Both of their subscribers combined is minute. Nothing stops Netflix, Hulu, or any other service from having the same shows. Sony should make Crunchy Roll Anime focused, amd start adding non-anime to Funimation.
Passive_Bob
Member
Playstation+ ― $9.99 per month (25% off with a Sony+ subscription)
1) I would merge Playstation+ and Playstation Now into one service and call it Playstation+, following the trend of Disney+, ESPN+, Apple TV+, etc.
2) I would make the service available on PS5, PC, TV, Android and iOS.
3) Playstation Store should be integrated into the service.
4) Playstation titles should be made available 4-6 months after release. If you can't wait, it should be possible to add new games via the Playstation Store. Some goes for third-party titles.
Sony+ ― $9.99 per month (25% off with a Playstation+ subscription)
1) I would create exclusive video game documentaries, music documentaries and anime documentaries.
2) I would create exclusive video game TV series and movies.
3) I would explore the possibility of recorded concerts and possibly live concerts (VR anybody?)
Spotify ― $9.99 per month (50% off with a Playstation+ and Sony+ subscription )
Sony owns A LOT of music on Spotify. I'm sure that would be able to make some kind of deal.
- Games Library — Download or stream more than 1.000 PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 & PS5
- Online Multiplayer — Play online with your friends
- Exclusive Discounts — Save Money on your favorite games in the Playstation Store
- Cloud saves — Store your save files in the cloud
1) I would merge Playstation+ and Playstation Now into one service and call it Playstation+, following the trend of Disney+, ESPN+, Apple TV+, etc.
2) I would make the service available on PS5, PC, TV, Android and iOS.
3) Playstation Store should be integrated into the service.
4) Playstation titles should be made available 4-6 months after release. If you can't wait, it should be possible to add new games via the Playstation Store. Some goes for third-party titles.
Sony+ ― $9.99 per month (25% off with a Playstation+ subscription)
- Sony Pictures Entertainment
- Columbia Pictures
- Screen Gems
- TriStar Pictures
- 3000 Pictures
- Sony Pictures Animation
- Stage 6 Films
- AFFIRM Films
- Sony Pictures Classics
- Sony Pictures Imageworks
- Sony Pictures Television
- Sony Music Entertainment
- Anime monopoly (almost)
1) I would create exclusive video game documentaries, music documentaries and anime documentaries.
2) I would create exclusive video game TV series and movies.
3) I would explore the possibility of recorded concerts and possibly live concerts (VR anybody?)
Spotify ― $9.99 per month (50% off with a Playstation+ and Sony+ subscription )
Sony owns A LOT of music on Spotify. I'm sure that would be able to make some kind of deal.
Mr Moose
Member
I'd take 1.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I don't see a No fuk that option.
v_iHuGi
Banned
Sony already has tons of cotent. Games alone 2020 was bonkers, let alone combine that with Anime, Music, Picutres lmao it would be more content than anyone can ever watch in a lifetime coming month in month out.
And that´s exactly why it isn´t happening and Sony will keep making deals with Netflix, Amazon, Disney and Hollywood.
SoloKingRobert
Banned
The difference is, with Xbox Game Pass you can download games natively on PC which is superior than Streaming. For PS Now this will never happen.
Also, with Xbox Game Pass you'll get 20% off games, and 10% off DLCs.
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v_iHuGi
Banned
That´s why Steam/EGS keeps breaking records and GamePass is barely existent on PC.
Just proves these business methods are, so far way superior.
Also EGS gives free games away frequently, Gamepass will not beat GTA V Free, ever.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
LoL no. Netflix produces at least 30 originals each month. Even amazon prime produces on average 5 originals each month. Streaming requires that amount of output. And Disney also announced a lot of original for the same very reason.
And regarding games? How many games does Sony produce each year? These two years - 2020 and probably 2021 - are outlines in Sony output. And even with that they have at most 2-3 big games per year. Usually 1 or 2 though. Not to mention Sony's games have almost 0 replayability values - after completing them people rarely return. For streaming service it is not enough. And Sony community (fanboys at least) is hostile to online gaming in general but that's a separate matter.
But chill out. No need to be that aggressive.
megreotsugua
Banned
I agree. I don't know how Sony will be able to compete if they solely rely on original shows unless they spend as much as Netflix.
What I have in mind is a more modest orginal output bolstered by anime and game streaming.
Sony do have an advantage of hundred if not thousands of movies and shows right off the bat.
My idea of Sony+ is not day and date release of games. So they can definitely afford to put a lot more games monthly as do they now for PSNow. There's still a lot of value in old games especially for non-hardcore gamers.
My premise is that this is catered to the crowd who would normally be attracted to sub to a movie/show streaming apps.
While Netflix spends billions to produce 30 original shows every month to attract and keep subscribers, Sony would spend less than that.
It would be a three-pronged approach for Sony.
1. Modest amount of original shows.
2. Lots of anime.
3. A steady stream of AA and AAA games.
Bonus: Thousands of proprietary old movies and shows that they can shuffle in and out.
I was thinking games can still be downloaded on PS4/PS5 for compatible games.
Sony can still capitalize on their AAA games. Hence no day and date release of AAA games - only AA games.
I don't agree that it will have to cost $20-$30. Right now Funimation cost $6, PSNow is $5-$10. Adding movies and shows for the over-all package should not increase cost that much specially if the goal is to get at half the subscribers of Netflix.
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v_iHuGi
Banned
Again, this post proves you know nothing about business and are clueless, feels bad, not really.
PlayStation Studios could easily doube output with smaller productions, this year they had:
Dreams
Ni Oh 2
GoT
Last of Us 2
Miles Morales
Astro
SackBoy
Demon´s Souls
FF VII as exclusive
Among many others, this output is unmatched by anyone in Gaming Industry, even Nintendo which usually has some insane outputs.
+ where is all that Content on D+? i´ve been subbed and haven´t seen anything there with exception of Mandalorian worth watching (that is new).
Again you think Sony couldn´t produce Originals at that pace just shows how minsinformed you really are, these guys own Columbia, Tristar, Aniplex, Funi, Crunchy etc.
EDIT: Sony can easily do it but they won´t because the risk is too high and the investment is too big. So they´ll keep making billions signing deals with whoever offers more money for their insane catalog of properties.
Edit 2: Just read your post more carefuly. holly shit hahaha man, BIG WELP. You think PS Fanboys are the reason Sony makes decisions in the office in regards to online gaming or whatever? LMAO hahahaha
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v_iHuGi
Banned
So, last post was obviously a response but now i want to say something about how a service like this could change Sony stance on deals.
www.sonypictures.com
Insane amount of Content, as you can see many are Streaming on Amazon / Netflix / Hulu / NBC etc or on live TV, a Sony service would presumably make all of it "exclusive" which means higher risk and LESS people watching.
www.sonypictures.com
As for movies, insane catalog and more to come, making them exclusive to Sony+ and not arriving on Cinemas would also be a money pitt.
As for Anime, Sony will now have the biggest movie EVER in Japan With Demon Slayer, again making it exclusive to a Sub would have lost them millions.
TV Home | Sony Pictures Entertainment
Insane amount of Content, as you can see many are Streaming on Amazon / Netflix / Hulu / NBC etc or on live TV, a Sony service would presumably make all of it "exclusive" which means higher risk and LESS people watching.
SONY PICTURES PRESENTS: MOVIES | Sony Pictures Entertainment
As for movies, insane catalog and more to come, making them exclusive to Sony+ and not arriving on Cinemas would also be a money pitt.
As for Anime, Sony will now have the biggest movie EVER in Japan With Demon Slayer, again making it exclusive to a Sub would have lost them millions.
World of KJ - View topic - Japan Box-Office: WKND Actuals (12/11-13)
www.worldofkj.com
Knitted Knight
Banned
Console gamers who grew up on the box need to stop trying to make a digital rental service be the "it". These services are made to morpth, once in a leadership position marketshare wise, as the box killer. Look at Luna, or Stadia. Amazon or Google don't even pretend - like MS.
Stop falling into MS's Marketing Trap. No one gave a shit when Gamefly was doing it on physical, and Gamefly has the exclusive catalog of Nintendo/Sony/MS combined Day 1. If you go by MS marketing big talk then you would come out with the impression that they're the most dominant player in the market.... when in fact they're lowly third on the console space, beaten by Apple on the smartphone space, and eaten alive by Steam on PC - their own platform.
If you've grown up on the traditional model, and like it, then the best thing you can do is to stop talking about the future you don't want to see - a subscription dominated environment. You're just doing the work for them by keeping this topic around. And also support the platforms that represent the traditional model best. This urge and pressure.... like teens falling to peer pressure doing dumb shit.
Stop falling into MS's Marketing Trap. No one gave a shit when Gamefly was doing it on physical, and Gamefly has the exclusive catalog of Nintendo/Sony/MS combined Day 1. If you go by MS marketing big talk then you would come out with the impression that they're the most dominant player in the market.... when in fact they're lowly third on the console space, beaten by Apple on the smartphone space, and eaten alive by Steam on PC - their own platform.
If you've grown up on the traditional model, and like it, then the best thing you can do is to stop talking about the future you don't want to see - a subscription dominated environment. You're just doing the work for them by keeping this topic around. And also support the platforms that represent the traditional model best. This urge and pressure.... like teens falling to peer pressure doing dumb shit.
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v_iHuGi
Banned
MS fanboys have to find something to think about, they´ve been taking Ls all their life long be it because the Rise of Steam, Apple/Google Smartphone Dominance or Xbox path to irrelevance.
They´ve the complex of inferiority and facts are they´ll always have because Sony/Apple/Google/Steam/Amazon will always be a step ahead.
Jack of All Trades, master of none.
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megreotsugua
Banned
There has to be some exclusive content on there for sure. But it doesn't have to be all of it. The shows that they produce may be on multiple streaming apps including their own.
It would be crazy if Sony will follow Netflix business model. It's as crazy as saying Sony should follow Gamepass business model. It doesn't make sense for them.
They can concoct a different approach to streaming that will work for them.
Disney still release their movies on cinema. What you're suggesting doesn't have to happen.
No. But releasing it on their subscription later down the road will definitely give a lot of value to their subscription.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Then it will turn into something akin HBO Max, who suffers from the subscribers coming and leaving depending on the show. It has ~13 mil. subscribers right now. In comparison to 80+ for Disney or 100+ for others it is basically nothing. But of course unlike HBO Sony has anime and music (TV I don't count because its output varies, but Sony it seems to be trying to marry its TV division with gaming so maybe will something good will happen) so it is much bigger ceiling and bigger flexibility like having separate subscriptions for movies, all anime, music, combinations, gaming etc. However we cannot count all that stuff as GamePass competitor because GamePass is more about gaming, rather than other stuff.
It is similar to Disney+ in that regards and can show incredible growth at once, but it will be mainly driven by other content (probably, because hard to say how attractive Sony's media content for people who might stick to Spotify and Netflix for example) rather than gaming.
What Sony has is an incredible flexibility because it produces now movies (output is miser but whatever), music (one the biggest publishers in the world), games (PS+ and PS Now), anime (Funimation, Crunchyroll). So it can create various combinations anime + music, music + movies, movies.+ anime, anime + gaming, anime + streaming etc.
I fully expect common (it has now two mouths to feed - Funimation and Crunchyroll) anime service for 8-10$ per month at most. Or maybe at least lol. Without anything. PS+ yearly is around 6$. PS Now+ is around 6$ yearly too. So their combo will be 10$ too. Maybe more. But for the whole. So even combined yearly subscription for anime + the whole gaming will be around 20$ in the cheapest form (yearly package). Monthly it can go straightly to 25-30$ for everything (extrapolate the current monthly prices). And it doesn't include movies or music. Let's say music is 5$ per month and movies is 5$ per month.
For PS Now and Anime - it will probably be around 15-18$
For PS+ and Anime (doesn't make sense though) - it will be probably also be 15-18$.
For PS+ and PS Now and Anime - 20-25$
Ok, estimations are rough but basically it won't be cheap.Now, another card is that all our estimations relied on the idea that the infrastructure won't require update. Which is not true. And producing content is also not free. For PS Now is a half-assed service so it can go with the current state of affairs, but when going into streaming seriously it won't be enough and it won't retain the same price. 100%.
Funnily enough, Sony actually always does smart moves regarding Playstation but fails at everything else. So if Playstation will spearhead everything else something good may come out.
All in all, it is interesting mental gymnastic especially if don't dive into fanboyism.
megreotsugua
Banned
To be fair, if you will really look into it, this is the only real way to bring gaming to the masses. Gamepass model IMO has a narrower potential market. But the combination of movies, shows, anime and old games (no day 1 release) may prove to be the way to reach the casuals.
MS has been saying that there are 2 billion gamers and that their XCloud/Gamepass will cater to that. I don't believe there is a lot of people interested in subscription that only stream games.
Dude did you even read the OP. This will not even affect Sony's business model of $70 AAA games. This is not similar to what MS is doing. This is potentially bigger.
This won't affect traditional gaming. This will only expand gaming to the casuals. The main hook will be the Sony movies and original shows and anime. The game streaming is an added value. There may be a lot of people out there who are subscribed to movie/show streaming apps that would also like to play games occasionally. They're not that big on gaming to build their own PC or even invest in console. This is for them.
Read the OP. You are way off. I'm with you, I don't want Sony to follow MS Gamepass model.
Chukhopops
Member
Is there any bigger subscription based model for games at the moment than Gamepass with 15 million subs? I don’t think Stadia, PSNow, Luna or GeForce now pull those numbers but maybe you have some data?
The thread isn’t even about Gamepass and OP says it’s not a GP competitor but the need to hate on MS seems too strong.
v_iHuGi
Banned
Lmao where has Sony Failed? Their Financials are stronger than ever across all divisions.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
LoL no. This year is outlier because Sony did all of that for PS5 release. Compare it with basically empty 2019. In fact both 2020-2021 are outliners as they are PS5 release dates. In general it has 2 big releases per year - UC4 + TLG -> Horizon + GT Sport -> GoW + Spiderman -> Days Gone. This year is exceptional with GoT + MM + DS + TLOU2 basically 4 big releases (some for PS5 only). Also for putting the third-party game on your streaming service, it requires additional pay - aside moneyhating not to release on other console or PC. Small game and third party single player games do not attract subscribers that much - you need bigger hitters for that.
That's why I said that Disney+ announced a lot of new shows because it lacks new content - despite having a huge growth at once - it mostly happened due to nostalgia, expectation of Marvel content output etc. and with COVID, as you can see aside Mandalorian there is no new worthy content.
Anime division is strong, no doubt about that.
Also
v_iHuGi
don't forget to pray to Sony regularly
It fascinating how SDF always come in full force defending what Sony is doing or not doing, then if Sony does the same thing - it will suddenly become something they wanted or expected. It fascinating
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megreotsugua
Banned
It might be closer to Disney+ than HBO Max.
I agree. I mistakenly put gamepass competitor in the title. But this is more of a netflix/disney+/hbo max competitor.
It might not do Netflix numbers. But it doesn't have to. The content and pricing will determine its success.
I don't agree with your price. That would be suicide.
1. Sony will not be spending as much as Netflix.
2. Game streaming is basically free as they are crumbles from the gaming division. (The cost will come from servers to run the games.)
3. Funimation costs $5.99.
I'm sticking with $8.99 (1 screen) and $17.99 (4 screens)
v_iHuGi
Banned
LoL no. This year is outlier because Sony did all of that for PS5 release. Compare it with basically empty 2019. In fact both 2020-2021 are outliners as they are PS5 release dates. In general it has 2 big releases per year - UC4 + TLG -> Horizon + GT Sport -> GoW + Spiderman -> Days Gone. This year is exceptional with GoT + MM + DS + TLOU2 basically 4 big releases (some for PS5 only). Also for putting the third-party game on your streaming service, it requires additional pay - aside moneyhating not to release on other console or PC. Small game and third party single player games do not attract subscribers that much - you need bigger hitters for that.
That's why I said that Disney+ announced a lot of new shows because it lacks new content - despite having a huge growth at once - it mostly happened due to nostalgia, expectation of Marvel content output etc. and with COVID, as you can see aside Mandalorian there is no new worthy content.
Anime division is strong, no doubt about that.
Also
I'm not defending Sony, I'm not a fan of many things they do like Anime Monopoly but there's no deny they've a huge presence in TV & can easily match others outputs if needed, AGAIN not Happening but possible.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
I think in long run gaming streaming will have huge numbers and movies too, that market is growing and for a lot countries gaming is becoming too expensive hobby and the opening markets are hugely skewed towards mobile, PCs and online. It will be fascinating, Sony has a lot of options.
Sony has recently bought Crunchyroll. If they roll out a single service, do you really think that the price stays the same? Of course not.
Game streaming is not free - why it should be? - and it currently costs 6$ for example for Amazon (who owns cloud infrastructure). Which similar price to PS Now with its current limited scope and infrastructure. Nothing is free. In Stadia you for example have to buy games (but I am curious if their current [free] plan is long or short term solution to get subscribers)
But what do you include in your price of 9$? PS Now + Anime? Single PS Now costs that amount of money (don't count yearly bundle) in its limited scope and infrastructure. So it won't be less than 10$, I am believe it will be at least 12$ if include Now + Anime or whatever, but even then - Funimation is 6, Crunchyroll is 8 -> 6 + 8 = 14 so it will be around 10-12$.
Anecdotally, Sony does not have that big presence in TV - not on the level of Disney+ which has legendary legacy and Marvel + Star Wars. What was the last good thing from Sony Pictures? I bet a lot of people don't even remember that they also produce movies
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Edgelord79
Gold Member
First, I wouldn't pay a dime more for those added services unless Netflix is included.
I doubt they are going to get Netflix to agree to it for the basic reason that Sony will not shell out the subsidy Netflix would require to be on board. It would be huge money. As for other stuff, that's pretty niche so it would depend on a specific demographic. I don't believe that's a seller to a large percentage.
To be a true competitor to GamePass they would have to offer first party titles on the service. Doubt they will do that as it doesn't fit their current model and it's successful as it is.
Could be wrong, but I'd bet against it. I really don't know the direction they would go with a service like this as they would have to be very careful it doesn't dilute their massive first party sales. Heck I don't think they have the cash to offer more large third party developers for subsidies either to be on "Sony+".
My guess its the same thing as Plus with streaming games included in the service now. This may include large renegotiations with publishers to be on the service as it's scope will be different, which will also be difficult.
I doubt they are going to get Netflix to agree to it for the basic reason that Sony will not shell out the subsidy Netflix would require to be on board. It would be huge money. As for other stuff, that's pretty niche so it would depend on a specific demographic. I don't believe that's a seller to a large percentage.
To be a true competitor to GamePass they would have to offer first party titles on the service. Doubt they will do that as it doesn't fit their current model and it's successful as it is.
Could be wrong, but I'd bet against it. I really don't know the direction they would go with a service like this as they would have to be very careful it doesn't dilute their massive first party sales. Heck I don't think they have the cash to offer more large third party developers for subsidies either to be on "Sony+".
My guess its the same thing as Plus with streaming games included in the service now. This may include large renegotiations with publishers to be on the service as it's scope will be different, which will also be difficult.
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megreotsugua
Banned
That's not how you compute if you are aiming for at least half the subscriber number of Netflix.
It doesn't matter if it's $9 if you're doing 50-100 million subscribers. It's exactly how Netflix is able to spend the largest (billions) in order to grow and keep their subscribers. And I'm not even talking about spending half of Netflix. Again, modest amount of good shows, old games, anime.
PSNow has paltry number of subscribers and yet Sony is able to release monthly games on it tells you the cost of operation is not big. PSNow might be doing small profit with its small number of subscribers.
You don't compute Netflix subscription price by looking at their operational cost. 30 shows a month for $9, are you kidding me?
Sony will be sending this imaginary subscription service to die if they will price it way higher. If the target is to get 5-10 milion subscribers, sure it doesn't make sense to put PSNow+Shows+Movies+Anime. But this imaginary Sony+ will cater to the masses. Disney+ is doing 80million, Netflix is doing 200 million. That's the kind of market Sony+ will be entering.
You have to compute using the target number of subscribers not how much the services cost right now. Because those services costs the way they do rihht now because of the small amount of subscribers and it doesn't make sense to operate them at a loss.
megreotsugua
Banned
They don't need Netflix. They own Sony Pictures which makes a lot of good shows for TV and streaming apps. They can buy their own shows and movies at a large discount (cross-department billing).
They can make their own exclusive shows without relying on outside companies.
This is not a competitor to gamepass which has small amd narrower target audience.
This will be competiting against Disney+ which has 80+ million subscriber and Netflix with 200 million subscribers.
The target audience is much larger in comparison. But Sony Sony doesn't need to do Netflix numbers to make this successful.
This is not a gamepass competitor. The way PSNow right now will work with this. The PSNow is not that much of an operation cost. I don't have the numbers but I'd imagine Sony is operating it with at least small profit.
The game streaming aspect is an added value for movie/show streaming apps subscribers who also play video games occasionally.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
You also don't want to be in debt. Running services, creating content is not cheap.
You need to reach those numbers first.
No, the price is pretty fair there no? They have different plans and even started to increase the price of it. The lowest price is still 9$ though. And we are talking about netflix who has 100 million subscribers and was running on debt until recently or something. I don't remember the price for Amazon Prime Video but probably similar, and Disney+ is 7$ but they relied on a lot of old content before, let's see what price will be the next year.
There is a logic on how much does everything costs. Even if Sony is able to lower it, it won't have 9$ for PS Now + Anime.
Their anime and movie division won't able to compete with that in its current state
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
megreotsugua
Banned
Of course. That's why I've been saying modest amount of good shows. Not Netflix number of shows.
Sony has Sony Pictures. Thousand of movies and shows right off the bat. They don't have to put all of them at once, they can shuffle them in and out.
No you don't. You have to create value first.
Value:
1. Good shows from Sony Pictures. (Internal production = less cost)
2. Lots of anime. (Both crunchyroll and funimation have free version with ads. Anime is not a money pit.)
3. Monthly games with ocassional 2-year old or so first party AAA games. Ocassional AA day 1 release. (Initially it will only really appeal to PS4/PS5 owners. But once game streaming becomes more common in the future, casual gamers who don't or won't own a console because they're not much of a gamer will find a lot of value in this.)
$9/month, about 30 shows per month for Netflix? Ask the 200 million subscribers.
For this imaginary Sony+ it has to be fair in the eyes of movie/shows/anime potential subscribers. Not in the eyes of gamers.
Again, the inclusion of games is an added value. It is not the main hook of the service. And it has to be old games. Sony cannot afford day 1 release or they will be in debt. (That market is small anyway.)
Don't expect 30 shows per month. Anime and games will add value instead.
Also don't expect 200 million subscribers. This will have less. But expect better number than gamepass.
Exactly. That's why I've been telling you old games only. No day 1 release. Similar to PSNow currently but improved and streamlined a little more. Anime should not be a money pit considering both Crunchyroll and Funimation has free versions with ads.
Again, Sony makes a lot of shows for TV and other streaming apps. They can easily capitalize on those unless their client wants exclusivity and willing to pay large money.
Catalogue of thousands of movies and shows in their arsenal.
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megreotsugua
Banned
The subscription fee has to stay within the price that an ordinary subscriber to movies and shows (+anime) is wiling to pay.
This is not a gamepass competitor. I erroneously put that in the title. Later I realized it will actually be a Netflix/Disney+/HBO Max competitor with a twist.
The main reason to sub is the movies and shows (and anime). The gaming aspect is just an added value and not the main advertising pitch. Hence the games are old and should not add much cost in its operation. But they should still have a lot of value especially to PS4/PS5 owners who can play the games natively. That's in addition to the value they'll get from movies, shows, and anime if they're into those.
And when game streaming become more common in the future, this will add a lot of value to the subscribers who are not much of a gamer themselves to own a console. Subscribers who are casual gamers are not the ones to complain why they're games are two years old or so (and besides for $9-$15 there's nothing to complain). Those who want to play the latest games will have to buy the PS5. Traditional gaming will remain intact. (For those who think that I believe in a predominantly game streaming future - I don't.)
This kind of combination of service is what will really bring gaming to the casuals not the MS gamepass model.
This has larger potential market than a pure game streaming that MS is doing. Disney+ (80million), Netflix (200million). That's the market that this service will try to crack.
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InfiniteUnrest
Member
I get that some people like anime, but no, just no.
megreotsugua
Banned
You don't have to watch it. It's same for those who will sub for the movies and shows. They don't have to play the games.
This is not different from Netflix's strategy of spending billions to make hundreds of shows that will cater to different tastes - kids, adults, western, asian and anything in between. But Sony don't have to spend billions to make this work. And instead of making just TV shows and series, it will span broader to anime and playstation games.
It will be a service with a modest amount of good shows and movies supported by anime and video games.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
The most popular plan as far as I recall is the second one and its price has been increased or planned to increase recently
Erm, all subscription services rely and relied on internal production. Netflix learnt it hard way though. So it is not the argument. Actually, licensing a movie might be cheaper but I am not sure.
Both services has less than 10 mil. combined and they had prices like 6-7$ per month. Anime of course is growing but I do not expect explosive growth for now. Don't forget that other streaming providers also have their own anime series.
Does not look exciting and what appealed the most and created waves in game streaming is MS appeal to release first party games 1 day. That's what created the waves. Not - [I may give some modern games in the future just subscribe].
Haha, GamePass has just started rolling out across the world - ok it is not even that started yet - but I fully expected at least 30 mil. by the end of 2021. Maybe more. You are underestimating the size of gaming market for some reason.
Ads bring a lot of money. Also a lot of people - like me with Spotify - eventually switch to premium.
Actually I don't think they make that much TV series. Maybe around 15 per year? And don't forget that they do not produce them alone but they are paid by HBO, Amazon, Apple, Netflix to do that. It would be interesting to see how much they will be able to produce on their own without external support.
megreotsugua
Banned
Doesn't matter. I'm only bringing up Netflix pricing to show that Sony should not go far beyond that. The service has to appeal to ordinary subscribers interested in movie, shows, and anime streaming services.
No they don't. If so, then Sony Pictures wouldn't have customers.
Yes it's cheaper because the movie has already run its course in the cinema. I's even cheaper for Sony. It would cost them $0 dollars even if they do cross-department billing (less SCE profit, more Sony Pictures). It's a matter of accounting adjustment.
Again, in subscription services you don't compute the amount of pricing by the cost of its operation or expenses. You have to account for the target number of subscribers. You have to provide value to keep it growing while maintaining a palatable price. It's a balancing game.
Considering they're only at 10 million subscribers combined at $6 tells you that the operating cost is not that high. It must be profitable albeit at a small amount. The next step is to provide more value and content and diversify and aim for a higher number of subscribers (that's what Netflix has been doing by providing more content). Including it in a service (Sony+) that will target 3-5x bigger subscribers is one way to do that.
It does not look exciting to you because you own a console and you want to play games as soon as they are released. There are a lot of people out there that doesn't put gaming in their priority list and would rather watch a movie or a series but wouldn't say no to the chance to swing in New York City in Spider-man or discover a new worlds and story in video games every once in a while.
For sure. If a good game is released on day 1 on game pass that would definitely create an excitement AMONG GAMERS LIKE YOU. How many are you? That's the question. There's no evidence that a pure game streaming service will succeed among the casuals. Even if believe MS numbers of 15 million that's paltry compared to how much the kind of Disney+ and Netflix is doing (and still growing).
I'm not understimating the size of gaming market. You might be overestimating the amount of people willing to rent games from MS. I'm just not convinced that even among the gaming community, game streaming will be widely adopted. If among the gaming crowd gamepass at $10 is a hard sell, how much harder would be among the casual gamers?
Gamepass's competition are the likes of Fortnite, COD, FIFA and PUBG who keeps players engaged for a long time without needing to play another game. There are hundreds of games not included in these services, a gamer who is hooked playing a game outside the service will not subscribe to gamepass no matter how many games you have there.
That's why Sony+ should not go after the "gaming crowd". It has to target the wider crowd of casuals and potential movie/show streaming service subscriber through a combination of not just games, but movies, shows, and anime as well.
They were paid because Sony sold them. But they still own them. Unless there's an exclusivity deal, there's no stopping Sony from including everything they produce on their own service.
As I was saying, Sony doesn't have to make every single movie and show they produce to be exclusive to their platform. In fact, I think they should continue selling them, but this time they should also sell them to Sony+. I'd imagine if the imaginary Sony+ is under SCE, then they have to pay Sony Pictures for the content. It's left hand giving the right hand the money. It's still Sony. Basically costing them $0.
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v_iHuGi
Banned
They just did The Boys for Amazon!?
The Boys
Synopsis:Superheroes are often as popular as celebrities, as influential as politicians, and sometimes even as revered as gods. But that's when they're using their powers for good. What happens when the heroes go rogue and start abusing their powers? When it's the powerless against the super...
www.rottentomatoes.com
Who cares if people doesn't know who produces it, what matters is the billions in net profit entering each year. Most people don't know Which studios Playstation Studios own you think Jim cares if people know who makes Spider Man!?
My Mom played Spider Man & she'll never know who insomniac is.
+ GamePass currently 1€ = 3 months Ultimate, service is not doing what MS wants or you would never be this aggressive.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Hard to sell what? It got 5 mil. over couple of months. Among gaming community - to be honest - nobody is playing mobile games yet...
People don't know which studio produced Spider man, but they know that it is available on Playstation and it sells well, because it is a good game. Same with Boys - doesn't matter who produced them, but it is available on Amazon Prime Video (Also the good TV series, I don't watch it though).
What I am pointing is that Sony entering movie streaming market won't create Disney level ripples. They have strong presence in gaming due to Playstation and basically only there. It is big by itself of course - like Amazon Roku - but does not necessary translates into tens millions subscribers jumping there.
So? By the same logic, the trials, free tiers in other services mean those services also don't work despite having 50+ mil. subscribers.
Do I sound aggressive? I couldn't tell. Interesting.
P.S. all that conversations bring me back to the talks about nobody plays online when Xbox Live appeared, nobody likes digital etc. All in all, we will see who is right or wrong by 2022-2023 I think.
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Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Throw PS/2 BC in there and I'll bite.
megreotsugua
Banned
You're right. It has to be advertised like crazy if they want it to gain mindshare. I see Netflix ads on youtube on every video I watch.
v_iHuGi
Banned
Nobody said a Sony Service would take of as fast as Disney +, that is unrealistic. Only Disney could pull something like that. Anyone else just can´t compete at that level.
Sony could still grow to tens of millions, even a hundred with agressive marketing, pricing and shit tons of content, just like Netflix could ascent to the top back in the day.
Just saw Mulan yesterday on Disney+. today might see Soul or Frozen Series, gotta say the IQ is bonkers and for me above Netflix but the App is mediocre at best, tons of bugs and erros.
Mandalorian is fucking GOAT & Disney with more content will seriously challenge Netflix to Top Contender, but it is years away.
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