Hawking Radiation
Member
Blah blah blah blah.
Nothing new FFS
Nothing new FFS
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Guerrilla Games tells GamesRadar+ what to expect from Horizon Forbidden West
- Thread starter Astorian
- Start date
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I really liked the first.
Very excited for this one.
Very excited for this one.
Dad_Of_Chicken
Member
Yes.
GymWolf
Member
You are only talking about the gpu side.
How they are gonna use the ryzen in the ps5 when they had to make the game run on a shitty jaguar?! you can forget any physics\distruction advancement that can't run on a jaguar, not saying that the game is gonna be the same, but it's a wasted occasion because the game is not builded around a ryzen cpu.
Same for the ssd against a slow ass mechanical 5400 rpm hard disk, sure you are gonna have fast start and fast loading times, but the game is not build around a super fast ssd like ratchet and clank, and having submarine sections doens't mean that they are using the ssd for that, a shitload of old games have submarine sections...
RDR2 on xone x only has slightly better framerate and better resolution, stuff like textures, shadows etc. are all the same in all console versions, there is a tech sheet about it that was created when the pc version was out to make details comparisons between pc and console, and even on pc, the physics was exactly the same, because the game was builded around a jaguar.
I'm not hating on the game, horizon was basically my gotg for the past gen, there is NOBODY in this forum who want a spectacular sequel more than me, i'm just mad that they picked this brand for a fucking crossgen operation on ps5 after all the talk about we believe in generations...(and honestly even without that i would still be pissed)
I hope that i'm wrong and that sony have the balls to make 2 completely different versions of the game, but it's a very improbable idea.
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Antony1992
Member
Sony were trolling everyone then when they said they belived in generations
.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
I think they have an uphill battle, stemming from:
A. Sour grapes over initial cross-gen "misunderstanding"
B. Expectations. Part of the reason the first game was a darling, was due to different, if not lower, expectations coming off the Killzone franchise.
Still, there is potential for them to knock it out of the park.
A. Sour grapes over initial cross-gen "misunderstanding"
B. Expectations. Part of the reason the first game was a darling, was due to different, if not lower, expectations coming off the Killzone franchise.
Still, there is potential for them to knock it out of the park.
hybrid_birth
Gold Member
Looks like a top 10 seller game on SteamUpgrade
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
What's the BFD about flying mounts?
You gain the ability to fly, and what does that add exactly? Fast travel? Some sort of limited combat against other flying enemies?
Seems like a gimmick to me; how can you balance combat fighting on the ground versus from the air without making it lopsided? Would Dark Souls combat be improved if you could simply fly around like a dragon and strafe shit from a safe distance?
You gain the ability to fly, and what does that add exactly? Fast travel? Some sort of limited combat against other flying enemies?
Seems like a gimmick to me; how can you balance combat fighting on the ground versus from the air without making it lopsided? Would Dark Souls combat be improved if you could simply fly around like a dragon and strafe shit from a safe distance?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Probably due to what this next poster said below and in bold.
I think it was a Youtube video of a GG dev talking at a developer's conference. I also believe it was due to the game not being designed for it.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Sometimes it's just cool to fly around a map. In GTA games, it really feels like you've "made it" once your lowly street thug is suddenly flying around in helicopters. Not everything in a game has to reinforce the gameplay itself.
That being said, I never once thought "gee I wish I could fly around" in Horizon, but sure, I'd take a robot eagle or whatever in the third if the game was built around that idea. Why not. Have enemies that easily disable its wings with artillery/lasers so that you can't just cheese them, have human enemies fire the same weapons but ripped from the corpses of robot enemies, it's easy enough to design.
Bergoglio
Member
HDD babe.
SinDelta
Member
I can't wait for this.
Given Hogwarts Legacy got delayed to 2022 BotW 2 still has no release date HFW is my most anticipated game.
Unless the lack of anything besides 2021 for Horizon Forbidden West is preparing for a 2022 delay in which case just fuck.
First game was great, fixable flaws aside. If they improve on it like it looks like they have it's gonna be absolutely incredible.
Given Hogwarts Legacy got delayed to 2022 BotW 2 still has no release date HFW is my most anticipated game.
Unless the lack of anything besides 2021 for Horizon Forbidden West is preparing for a 2022 delay in which case just fuck.
First game was great, fixable flaws aside. If they improve on it like it looks like they have it's gonna be absolutely incredible.
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GamesAreFun
Banned
Truth is GG said they couldn't do flying mounts in the first game because the HDD was too slow. An SSD specifically fixes that issue, BUT.............they can't because this game is coming out on the PS4 too.
There were plenty of multi-platform games which had entirely different features or levels depending on the platform, Splinter Cell Double Agent comes to mind. Shame they can't just make an inferior PS4 game with different monsters, would be an added incentive to buy the PS5.
GamesAreFun
Banned
Rain World had "emergent" AI, but it was too hard for the game journalists reviewing it. Delicate balance between complex & clever AI and making a fun/accessible game.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
No problem mate, I give you the answer: I don't care for Halo or RE8.
HFW on the other hand is a title that caught my interest (as I liked the first one, not a masterpiece but still a very good game).
michaelius
Banned
Only first page and comments are total dogshit
I want to be excited for this game but reading the comments here already makes me want to puke
Congratulations you guys made it in making me hating this game
Get used to it. When you favourite company doesn't have anything worth playing for next 2 years then it's obvious competitors games are going to suck
bitbydeath
Member
At least we have Sony delivering on a ton of games.Get used to it. When you favourite company doesn't have anything worth playing for next 2 years then it's obvious competitors games are going to suck
Decontamination Silo
Banned
I liked the first waaay more than I expected to. I hope the PC port is not far behind.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
ABnormal
Member
Well, I think they include flying mounts, but obviously slow and without the ability to dive quickly from high altitude to the ground, to allow ps4 hdd to keep up with the streaming. A bit like gta (but proportionally to the asset density).
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I think that's a bit unfair to Horizon
Horizon: FW is a full blown sequel with over 4 years of development time, while Miles is a shorter expansion.
I would expect Horizon: FW to be much more expanded in terms of gameplay scope and improvements.
Fake
Member
Well, he hope so. This generation of devs team are the worst I could imagine. If they ignore all the feedback from Horizon: Zero Dawn will be a waste of time.
Fake
Member
IDK if this can ever fixed. Almost any NPC inside the game have a better personality than Aloy. I feel like they gave her the sense of 'strong woman', but she lacks everything. Even those dialogues with her 'father' sounds more like provocation than conversation.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
This is Guerilla Games.....with 4 + years on a sequel....they are a pretty efficient team, so I expect those 4 years to be put to good use.
Fake
Member
I do not deny their competence, just pointing out the lack of insecurity of some. The ability of listening the community about the problems of the predecessor. Sometimes praise gave ego to the montains. I remember people over resetera (when started the split) not seeing any problem with the poor human AI.
I don't need to care about robots combat because is the really strong aspect of HZD and probably will be improve. My only concern are the armor mechanic, melee combat, human AI and the lack of bosses. Still a 8/10 game for me and one of my favorites too.
01011001
Banned
yeah what they said was either pure bullshit or their engine sucks at streaming assets, there are plenty of games with detailed worlds that let you fly across them. Just Cause 3/4, GTA, freaking glitching the car speed in Forza Horizon 4 let's you jet across the highway at above 600km/h and normal hyper cars reach 500km/h easily as well
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x@3f*oo_e!
Member
Death Stranding on the same engine shows they could do flying mounts .. if they want
THEAP99
Banned
Well they couldn't in the first one because of hardware limitations
Azurro
Banned
Aka, any design decision on a PlayStation game is awful and crusty. Also, any design decision on an Xbox game is fantastic and rewarding.
Tschumi
Member
I'm playing Zero Dawn right now and I've never played a game like it. It's got a really unique feeling. Guerrilla are really high in my estimations these days, they're so technologically high minded... Zero Dawn doesn't get anywhere near the props it deserves, i guess it's a victim of console warring or something.. it's a bit dated, but that's not a good reason to say it isn't good when the gameplay is so fresh and unique.
Said it before, but i give it huge bonus props every time i fire up samus's scan visor in game.
Said it before, but i give it huge bonus props every time i fire up samus's scan visor in game.
Imtjnotu
Member
im waiting for any gameplay footage. we have none
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I hope so, but I wouldnt expect any improvements that rely on the SSD or even the CPU. those things drastically change the gameplay scope and the ps4 specs will hold back the entire game.
i have seen footage of the first game with a flying mount and the foliage took a massive hit. regardless, the idea behind the flying isnt to just get you from one place to another. we have flying in spiderman and anthem for instance. its about doing it at speeds not possible before. at a graphical fidelity not possible before.
Basically something like this.
Imagine cutting through trees on a stormbird at insane speeds destroying trees and branches leaving behind a trail of destruction.
You're not going to get any of that if the game is being held back by the ps4 gpu, ssd and cpu. it's going to be a prettier and shallower experience like Miles and every other cross gen game out there.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
That's true. They're still going to need to rely on last-gen CPUs and HDD speeds. It's unfortunate but it is what it is.
I still think they can deliver a stellar game with a massive number of improvements despite this, however. BOTW for instance was done on ancient hardware and it's one of the best of all time (arguably).
I guess I have faith that it'll turn out extremely well. GG released KZ:SF in late 2013, then HZ:ZD in early 2017. 3.5 years for a new IP. They are getting over 4 years for a sequel.
If Horizon: FW doesn't turn out amazing given this extended time, then it'll be a huge failure in my mind if it's just an OK but the same type of sequel.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am sure it will be a fine game. Demon Souls and Miles are technically last gen games and I had a blast with them. Platinumed them both and put in over 200 hours into demon souls beating it well over 10 times.
I wouldnt be surprised if it turns out to be my GOTY seeing as how empty this year is turning out to be, but its always going to be a case of what if. we have this amazing new tech and gg wouldnt take advantage of any of it until 2025 or 2026. probably the most technically ambitious studio over at sony will have their hands tied when making what shouldve been their magnum opus. the disappointment will never go away even after a true next gen horizon comes out in 2025.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Basically this is what im talking about. i highly doubt we get this in horizon forbidden west.
Fake
Member
Basically this is what im talking about. i highly doubt we get this in horizon forbidden west.
Actually, DS have some source of this.
I remember Digital Foundry talking about the fruits of the Kojima art Direction working with Guerrila dev team to open more their creativity.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
What if I told you there was a world where the majority of big budget games from a multitude of giant corporations were soulless, uninspired cash grabs? Meant to appeal to the widest possible denominator.
What if I told you it was possible not only to criticize games from one company, but to criticize games from all companies?
CamHostage
Member
We're still talking about flying mounts not being possible because PS4 is going to be holding Horizon Future West back?
It's not made to do that and not optimized for it, but the world maintains structural integrity when viewed above ground, and textures come according to the proper LOD maintenance system. Put some manpower into making sure flight is accounted for in the engine and it'd work better.
The Decima engine has undergone a lot of work since the launch of Horizon. Frozen Wilds showed some nice improvements, and that was just aDLC; the version of it used in Death Stranding also had a number of engine features and enhancements, the PC port even added a few new aspects. If you're somebody who's dug deep into some of the tech talks Guerrilla has done about Decima Engine, you may have also already noticed that some of features it has shown as work-in-progress stuff in the lab (like the NUBIS cloud system doing low-hanging clouds or swirling clouds) are now being seen in action in Horizon Forbidden West (in the PS5 trailer, at least; we'll see what can or can't run on PS4.) So, even the PS4 version stands to improve over the first game, no matter how much further the PS5 allows the team to push the project.
Truth is? People keep paraphrasing something about Guerrilla outright stating that flying mounts were impossible, over and over when flying mounts in Horizon 2 are discussed, but then I've yet to see somebody share a link or a pullquote of exactly what they said. People were asking to see this specific GG quote back in September, and nobody dug up the actual material then either.
Sorry, don't mean to be a dick about this, but I have a feeling there's more to whatever GG actually said than what keeps getting thrown out on GAF or Reddit as "truth". I don't doubt that flying would add a lot of headaches and technical problems to the game, that it would push the PS4 in ways the engine wasn't primarily optimized to pull off. If flying was a gameplay mechanic crossed off early on in Horizon 1 development due to technical difficulties, that would make perfect sense to me that somebody on the team mentioned this. A game developer flat-out saying it was not possible, though, I don't know why Guerrilla would have said that, because it's not impossible.
(It would be weird BTW for a game developer to say something like that in the first place, usually they're very specific about the limitations of the engine or the maximum capacities of the polygon system or the capacity of their procedural generation system, but they would be loathe to say in a public forum, "Our engine can't do flight", because their producer's next question at a future team meeting would inevitably be, "...But what if we did?" Anything you say is impossible in one game, somebody on your team and probably even your boss will come back and ask you about making it happen in the sequel.)
Specifically HDD being the hurdle to flight by the way, I don't know how much a factor that would or wouldn't be? The Horizon implementation of Decima Engine uses a ton of procedural elements rendered in-engine from noise patterns and foliage templates, and so a lot of what you see in the game isn't coming off of the HDD, it's being made by the game engine. (To be fair, there's of course a LOT of handmade assets in Horizon streamed in as well.) At some point there's a cap between what the console can store, can display, and can run at a reasonable framerate, and flying would make all of that more taxing to rely upon working seamlessly, but would the disc streaming bandwidth be the real bottleneck if Guerrilla were to tackle flight with its engine?
It's not made to do that and not optimized for it, but the world maintains structural integrity when viewed above ground, and textures come according to the proper LOD maintenance system. Put some manpower into making sure flight is accounted for in the engine and it'd work better.
The Decima engine has undergone a lot of work since the launch of Horizon. Frozen Wilds showed some nice improvements, and that was just aDLC; the version of it used in Death Stranding also had a number of engine features and enhancements, the PC port even added a few new aspects. If you're somebody who's dug deep into some of the tech talks Guerrilla has done about Decima Engine, you may have also already noticed that some of features it has shown as work-in-progress stuff in the lab (like the NUBIS cloud system doing low-hanging clouds or swirling clouds) are now being seen in action in Horizon Forbidden West (in the PS5 trailer, at least; we'll see what can or can't run on PS4.) So, even the PS4 version stands to improve over the first game, no matter how much further the PS5 allows the team to push the project.
Truth is GG said they couldn't do flying mounts in the first game because the HDD was too slow. An SSD specifically fixes that issue, BUT.............they can't because this game is coming out on the PS4 too.
Truth is? People keep paraphrasing something about Guerrilla outright stating that flying mounts were impossible, over and over when flying mounts in Horizon 2 are discussed, but then I've yet to see somebody share a link or a pullquote of exactly what they said. People were asking to see this specific GG quote back in September, and nobody dug up the actual material then either.
Sorry, don't mean to be a dick about this, but I have a feeling there's more to whatever GG actually said than what keeps getting thrown out on GAF or Reddit as "truth". I don't doubt that flying would add a lot of headaches and technical problems to the game, that it would push the PS4 in ways the engine wasn't primarily optimized to pull off. If flying was a gameplay mechanic crossed off early on in Horizon 1 development due to technical difficulties, that would make perfect sense to me that somebody on the team mentioned this. A game developer flat-out saying it was not possible, though, I don't know why Guerrilla would have said that, because it's not impossible.
(It would be weird BTW for a game developer to say something like that in the first place, usually they're very specific about the limitations of the engine or the maximum capacities of the polygon system or the capacity of their procedural generation system, but they would be loathe to say in a public forum, "Our engine can't do flight", because their producer's next question at a future team meeting would inevitably be, "...But what if we did?" Anything you say is impossible in one game, somebody on your team and probably even your boss will come back and ask you about making it happen in the sequel.)
Specifically HDD being the hurdle to flight by the way, I don't know how much a factor that would or wouldn't be? The Horizon implementation of Decima Engine uses a ton of procedural elements rendered in-engine from noise patterns and foliage templates, and so a lot of what you see in the game isn't coming off of the HDD, it's being made by the game engine. (To be fair, there's of course a LOT of handmade assets in Horizon streamed in as well.) At some point there's a cap between what the console can store, can display, and can run at a reasonable framerate, and flying would make all of that more taxing to rely upon working seamlessly, but would the disc streaming bandwidth be the real bottleneck if Guerrilla were to tackle flight with its engine?
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