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[assurdum]

We know Sony doesn't have all of AMD's RDNA2 features.

I'm not sure how MS factors into that other than we know Xbox has AMD's version of "mesh shaders."

We can presume if Sony developed their own version, they'd have no reason to include AMD's version of something.

And people presume one of those customizations involved something similar to Mesh Shaders; whether that's because AMD's wasn't ready or not is just theroy.

As is the idea that PS5 doesn't have AMD's "mesh shaders".... but that's based on a number of things.

No offence but I think you are trying to discuss about the nothing here. If ps5 really can replace geometry with shaders, who cares if it's not named mesh shaders.

 

[MasterCornholio]

We know Sony doesn't have all of AMD's RDNA2 features.

I'm not sure how MS factors into that other than we know Xbox has AMD's version of "mesh shaders."

We can presume if Sony developed their own version, they'd have no reason to include AMD's version of something.

And people presume one of those customizations involved something similar to Mesh Shaders; whether that's because AMD's wasn't ready or not is just theroy.

As is the idea that PS5 doesn't have AMD's "mesh shaders".... but that's based on a number of things.

I also believe that since Sony doesn't have DX they have more freedom with their customizations. What I mean by that is they don't have to worry about screwing PC users with the customizations they make. It could be possible that Sony didn't adopt RDNA2 completely because they don't need to worry about PC gamers. Microsoft adopting RDNA2 completely makes it easier for developers to use those features in the GDK on PC. Microsoft simply can't use a customization that's impossible on PC but Sony can.

Not saying that Sonys implementation is better it's just that PC is something they don't have to worry about when they choose features.

 

[ethomaz]

By abandoned, I meant them marketing the mesh shading feature on RDNA 2 mostly with the DX12U API. Their own shaders are still probably there, but the choice ultimately comes down to developers when picking which one to use.

Developers have no options for the old way... they need to use it most hardware doesn’t support Mesh Shaders way.

But I agree it is a choice to support or not Mesh Shaders in the hardware that allow it... after GDK development supports several hardware sets.

 

[IntentionalPun]

No offence but I think you are trying to discuss about the nothing here. If ps5 really can replace geometry with shaders, who cares if it's not named mesh shaders.

If Sony has a different version of the same thing than their performance won't necessarily be tied to the somewhat disappointing AMD numbers from today for RDNA2.

I don't particularly care that much; but this conversation was started based on those benchmarks coming out. And that's why this isn't "nothing."

Or Sony has AMD's + something else. We don't know for sure, but most have been presuming Sony's is not AMD's version. Sony's could be better, a lot of people are presuming that too. And the "insiders" claim that's what they've heard (RGT, MLID)

 

[FrankWza]

The games you listed that demonstrate "extremely fast load times" aren't comparable.

You’re still bringing up load times.

However, when the speculation gets all off in the weeds as to how this specific feature will be a game changer, or how this pipeline will cause this to perform better than that by this percent, or how this feature can read this which in turn will make one do something better than another, it almost never pans out. It's fun to theorize about it for sure, but it can get way out of hand at times.

All jokes aside. If you’d read the road to PS5 breakdown or look at velocity architecture you’ll get where people are mentioning I/O and how it can be a significant factor or may already be. Whatever “side “ anyone is on and mentioned load times was missing the bigger picture. They weren’t wrong, they were under informed. With the rest of the components, people here(definitely not me) have experience and knowledge to have an idea what is possible. With the new SSDs these consoles have, they have nothing to go on. It’s all speculation. More than even speculation on the rest of these consoles builds.

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

If Sony has a different version of the same thing than their performance won't necessarily be tied to the somewhat disappointing AMD numbers from today for RDNA2.

I don't particularly care that much; but this conversation was started based on those benchmarks coming out. And that's why this isn't "nothing."

Or Sony has AMD's + something else. We don't know for sure, but most have been presuming Sony's is not AMD's version. Sony's could be better, a lot of people are presuming that too. And the "insiders" claim that's what they've heard (RGT, MLID)

So it all boils down to...

It's anyone's guess?

 

[IntentionalPun]

I also believe that since Sony doesn't have DX they have more freedom with their customizations. What I mean by that is they don't have to worry about screwing PC users with the customizations they make. It could be possible that Sony didn't adopt RDNA2 completely because they don't need to worry about PC gamers. Microsoft adopting RDNA2 completely makes it easier for developers to use those features in the GDK on PC. Microsoft simply can't use a customization that's impossible on PC but Sony can.

Not saying that Sonys implementation is better it's just that PC is something they don't have to worry about when they choose features.

Sure... nothing I said really contradicts this though.

But Sony wouldn't spend money developing hardware customizations for no reason. They didn't develop much of the hardware in the PS5.. so if they developed their own hardware to perform what mesh shaders do, there is likely a reason for that.

But sure, they have more flexibility to customize.. but they aren't going to spend the money to do that for no reason.

 

[Lysandros]

I can't honestly see what prevents PS5's GE to be unique or specific to this machine in some way (for now or not) just like the Cache Scrubbers or Tempest Engine are. Why literally every single part must be RDNA1-2-3 etc? What's that obsession?

 

[IntentionalPun]

I can't honnestly see what prevents PS5's GE to be unique or specific to this machine in some way (for now or not) just like the Cache Scrubbers are. Why literally every single part must be RDNA1-2-3 etc? What's that obsession?

Who is this directed at? ethomaz ?

He is the only one obsessed with proclaiming Sony has an AMD RDNA2 specific feature. lol

 

[Shelookdlvl18]

You’re still bringing up load times.

All jokes aside. If you’d read the road to PS5 breakdown or look at velocity architecture you’ll get where people are mentioning I/O and how it can be a significant factor or may already be. Whatever “side “ anyone is on and mentioned load times was missing the bigger picture. They weren’t wrong, they were under informed. With the rest of the components, people here(definitely not me) have experience and knowledge to have an idea what is possible. With the new SSDs these consoles have, they have nothing to go on. It’s all speculation. More than even speculation on the rest of these consoles builds.

To your first point. I wasn't replying to you. Quit interjecting yourself to try and fail at making a point.

All jokes aside indeed. Why would I need to read the road to PS5 breakdown? Was watching it not enough? Am i required to read it because it becomes gospel due to gospel being the written word? Your issue is how you view other people's comments. For you, those whose speculation confirms your bias "get it", while those that suggest otherwise "don't get it".

Those mentioning I/O and how it can be a significant factor are mostly the same as those "under informed" people that mentioned. The only difference between the two theories is that one has been pretty much blown out of the water, while the other has yet to be proven either way. Considering that the loading times aspect was the most easily reached conclusion, most hyped, and most promoted feature. It's pretty bold to simply wave all that off as "they were uninformed", considering how much you harped on that whole "most powerful console ever" topic.

While there may be people here with the experience and knowledge to have an idea of what's possible, those people tend to post rather rarely. The people routinely predicting what a console has or doesn't, or what will happen or won't have a 50% chance of being correct. That's if they're just guessing and have no idea what they're talking about. Considering the percent of speculating and predictions here fall way below that 50% suggests that the average person speculating here either knows less than nothing, or often let's their personal biases and preferences lead to speculating less than likely outcomes.

So when I say that we simply don't know... I'm being generous.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Those mentioning I/O and how it can be a significant factor are mostly the same as those "under informed" people that mentioned. The only difference between the two theories is that one has been pretty much blown out of the water, while the other has yet to be proven either way. Considering that the loading times aspect was the most easily reached conclusion, most hyped, and most promoted feature. It's pretty bold to simply wave all that off as "they were uninformed", considering how much you harped on that whole "most powerful console ever" topic.

I pretty much agree with Digital Foundry when they talked about the I/O performance in NiOh. I guess we have to wait for more examples before coming to a conclusion but there's definitely a pretty big difference between how the PS4 handles it's I/O compared to the PS5.

 

[SmurfMustard]

Wasn't MS the one bragging about crossgen from the start?

Wasn't Sony the one bragging about "believing in generations" from the start? I wonder what happened.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Wasn't Sony the one bragging about "believing in generations" from the start? I wonder what happened.

Well next gen games do sort of exist on the PS5. I guess they were saying that because Microsoft were pushing believing in not leaving XB1 owners behind.

I would say they are both right to a certain extent. Some games do worn across generations but some of them need to be built for next gen only to work. It's why a lot of people are saying that cross gen games limit what a console is able to do in them. Kind of sucks that Halo Infinite and Horizons Forbidden West are cross gen games. Hopefully Hellblade 2 and GoW Ragnarok are not cross gen titles.

 

[Hashi]

He did not work on PS3 lol

Cerny work on really important software to manage Cell SPU on EIB.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070074207A1/en (large publication about "nature" of multiprocessing computation)
Inventor: Mark Cerny (and John Bates, Payton White, Richard Stenson, Howard Berkey, Atilla Vass, John Morgan)
Evolution of that tech is inside PS4 and Volcanic Island (AMD GPU). Current assignee: Sony, expiration (probably) 2029-07-09
I think with that large description of the computation method Sony can build any processing unit or it's some some kind of defense against patent lawsuits.

Huh?

You said this about the PS3:

"The PS3's Cell prepared devs to start utilizing GPGPU without it being too alien to them. It had a very familiar setup"

How are you "no-shitting" me after saying that? There was nothing familiar about the PS3 to devs.

He only say that PS3 symetric mutliprocessing system with attached processing units was first road to GPGPU computations (in future). Something like lessons.

 

[LiquidRex]

Look at the performance increase you get after turning it on, it's culling meshlets hidden from the camera’s view. I’m telling y’all, the custom Primitive Shaders feature from the GE on PS5 is gonna be the highlight feature of this generation for the console.

Look at the difference following driver update.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Wasn't Sony the one bragging about "believing in generations" from the start? I wonder what happened.

Calm down, warrior, I was just telling Slimy to hold his hope.

 

[IntentionalPun]

He only say that PS3 symetric mutliprocessing system with attached processing units was first road to GPGPU computations (in future). Something like lessons.

GPGU's existed before Cell though; I find the narrative a bit confusing.

 

[FrankWza]

To your first point. I wasn't replying to you. Quit interjecting yourself to try and fail at making a point.

Seriously? Come on. What next? I’m rubber you’re glue? This is a forum and you’re not private messaging. You interjected yourself plenty when I was asking what the breakdown of full paying customers of gamepass was. I never got an answer but you interjected. And I did make a point. You just don’t want to hear it. You’re focusing on load times because you think SSD is just about load times. It isn’t. If you watched the road to PS5 you didn’t pay attention so I’ll once again suggest you read it. If you understood it you wouldn’t be bringing up load times for crossgen ports.

Those mentioning I/O and how it can be a significant factor are mostly the same as those "under informed" people that mentioned. The only difference between the two theories is that one has been pretty much blown out of the water, while the other has yet to be proven either way. Considering that the loading times aspect was the most easily reached conclusion, most hyped, and most promoted feature. It's pretty bold to simply wave all that off as "they were uninformed", considering how much you harped on that whole "most powerful console ever" topic.

See, again. Still with the load times. And I didn’t say anything about any console being the most powerful ever. MICROSOFT said the series x was the “most powerful console ever” and I commented on how they changed it QUICKLY to “most powerful Xbox”

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I see the subject of Mesh Shades and Primitive Shaders is being brought up. RGT's leaks are interesting but let's put those aside for a second, LeviathanGamer2 who has a strong knowledge of the subject has made several tweets regarding them.

 

[SmurfMustard]

Well next gen games do sort of exist on the PS5. I guess they were saying that because Microsoft were pushing believing in not leaving XB1 owners behind.

I would say they are both right to a certain extent. Some games do worn across generations but some of them need to be built for next gen only to work. It's why a lot of people are saying that cross gen games limit what a console is able to do in them. Kind of sucks that Halo Infinite and Horizons Forbidden West are cross gen games. Hopefully Hellblade 2 and GoW Ragnarok are not cross gen titles.

So they both believe in cross gen as long as it makes monetary sense, one just lied about it. And with "The Medium" Series X/S have their own next gen game, so they exist there too.

 

[SmurfMustard]

Calm down, warrior, I was just telling Slimy to hold his hope.

Weren't you banned from this thread for warring. Weird.

 

[martino]

I see the subject of Mesh Shades and Primitive Shaders is being brought up. RGT's leaks are interesting but let's put those aside for a second, LeviathanGamer2 who has a strong knowledge of the subject has made several tweets regarding them.

the best take i've seen over that so far.

 

[Hashi]

GPGU's existed before Cell though; I find the narrative a bit confusing.

Yes existed before but not in that scale (on consumer electronics). That design (where SPU can handle AI, Physics and graphics) forced dev like Guerilla to utilize that to max.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So they both believe in cross gen as long as it makes monetary sense, one just lied about it. And with "The Medium" Series X/S have their own next gen game, so they exist there too.

Both of them lied. Sony lied about abandoning the PS5 and Microsoft lied about last gen games not holding back current gen.

 

[kyliethicc]

Both of them lied. Sony lied about abandoning the PS5 and Microsoft lied about last gen games not holding back current gen.

Sony never lied about "believing in generations" because that had nothing to do with cross-gen games. They were talking about the hardware itself.

Everyone just assumed / made up this idea of Sony saying "no cross gen games."

Except Sony never said that. What they said was true.

 

[kyliethicc]

So they both believe in cross gen as long as it makes monetary sense, one just lied about it. And with "The Medium" Series X/S have their own next gen game, so they exist there too.

You realize Microsoft has nothing to do with The Medium right?

 

[SmurfMustard]

Both of them lied. Sony lied about abandoning the PS5 and Microsoft lied about last gen games not holding back current gen.

I'm not sure we can ever really say that with certainty. If a current gen title doesn't look perfect it's of course easy to fault last gen, because it was held back.

 

[SmurfMustard]

You realize Microsoft has nothing to do with The Medium right?

What is your point exactly?

 

[MasterCornholio]

I'm not sure we can ever really say that with certainty. If a current gen title doesn't look perfect it's of course easy to fault last gen, because it was held back.

Well you tell me if Ratchet and the Medium are possible on last gen systems. I think the developers even said the games are not possible on last gen platforms.

 

[SmurfMustard]

Sony never lied about "believing in generations" because that had nothing to do with cross-gen games. They were talking about the hardware itself.

Everyone just assumed / made up this idea of Sony saying "no cross gen games."

Except Sony never said that. What they said was true.

I'm guessing people hear what they want to hear.

 

[M1chl]

Look at the difference following driver update.

TOOLS!

Anyway this is important for Xbox, they are using AMDs drivers on Xbox or at least working closely on them. Sony is working on it themselves, just part of the bios is AMD.

Or at least that's how it was on Xbox One/PS4.

 

[MasterCornholio]

What is your point exactly?

I guess kyliethicc is trying to say that Microsoft didn't produce or release any next gen games yet while Sony has. Although if Microsoft did hire The Medium to produce the game that's a different story. That's what I'm not sure about.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[kyliethicc]

I guess kyliethicc is trying to say that Microsoft didn't produce or release any next gen games yet while Sony has. Although if Microsoft did hire The Medium to produce the game that's a different story. That's what I'm not sure about.

The game was not funded or published by Microsoft. Its a 3rd party game.

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm guessing people hear what they want to hear.

Show me 1 quote where they lied. I'll wait.

 

[M1chl]

The game was not funded or published by Microsoft. Its a 3rd party game.

Yeah it's completely indie, made and published by Blooper themselves, but I like that MS is supporting Slav titles, like I said.

 

[SmurfMustard]

Well you tell me if Ratchet and the Medium are possible on last gen systems. I think the developers even said the games are not possible on last gen platforms.

Don't know, I'm not a developer. I'll have to take their word for it.

The game was not funded or published by Microsoft. Its a 3rd party game.

You could make an argument that since it's on Game Pass day one and Blooper said they made their developing cost back in the first week, that some of that GP money funded the game. But since no one really knows what's in those GP contacts, this is of course just speculation.

 

[IllegalLemon]

Well at least the guy who left the Reddit post has the job listing to use as a pretty decent piece of evidence, so there’s that. The question is, what’s the game? Is it an unannounced title or one we already know about ? The thought that it’s an unannounced title is very intriguing to say the least assuming that is the case. We’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[kyliethicc]

You could make an argument that since it's on Game Pass day one and Blooper said they made their developing cost back in the first week, that some of that GP money funded the game. But since no one really knows what's in those GP contacts, this is of course just speculation.

What the fuck are you talking about lol

That's like saying Rocket League was a Sony 1st party game.

 

[SlimySnake]

Look at the difference following driver update.

Nuclear crisis averted. thank god.

Now it's time to worry about PS5 not being true RDNA 2.0 and thus not having mesh shaders. Imagine DF comparisons with PS5 at 30 fps and XSX at 560 fps. Richard would nut on the spot.

 

[SmurfMustard]

What the fuck are you talking about lol

That's like saying Rocket League was a Sony 1st party game.

Weird interpretation of what I said and please keep your aggressions in check.

 

[kyliethicc]

Weird interpretation of what I said and please keep your aggressions in check.

Rocket League debuted on PS Plus, same thing as debuting on GP.

Sony had nothing to do with Rocket League's funding and neither did Microsoft with The Medium.

Please keep your retarded posts in check.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The game was not funded or published by Microsoft. Its a 3rd party game.

DarkMage619 I thought that Microsoft must have published it at the very least.

Thank you for that kyliethicc

 

[MasterCornholio]

Nuclear crisis averted. thank god.

Now it's time to worry about PS5 not being true RDNA 2.0 and thus not having mesh shaders. Imagine DF comparisons with PS5 at 30 fps and XSX at 560 fps. Richard would nut on the spot.

Please tell me that nobody is trying to spread that around. It would be annoying to have to deal with another wave of FUD.

 

[devilNprada]

You could make an argument that since it's on Game Pass day one and Blooper said they made their developing cost back in the first week, that some of that GP money funded the game. But since no one really knows what's in those GP contacts, this is of course just speculation.

Really?

Is this a case of MS just spending a shit ton or that 3rd party vendors can actually make money on GP with new games?

 

[SmurfMustard]

Rocket League debuted on PS Plus, same thing as debuting on GP.

Sony had nothing to do with Rocket League's funding and neither did Microsoft with The Medium.

Please keep your retarded posts in check.

Your choice of words speaks volumes. Thank you for the interaction and have a nice day. Just so you know, I've reported your use of that word and in my opinion using that as an insult shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[SlimySnake]

Please tell me that nobody is trying to spread that around. It would be annoying to have to deal with another wave of FUD.

Too late. Alex Battlestar Gallatica has already been laying the groundwork for it.

 

[SmurfMustard]

Really?

Is this a case of MS just spending a shit ton or that 3rd party vendors can actually make money on GP with new games?

Like I said, I don't know. I just read that they made their money back and I don't thin I that it's too far fetched to assume that GP might have a little to do with that.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Don't know, I'm not a developer. I'll have to take their word for it.

Well me neither but I prefer to believe them until they get proven that they are lying.

We do have a massive jump in CPU and I/O. Some next gen games are simply not going to be possible on last gen systems. Slow HDDs and those anemic jaguar Cores can't handle a lot compared to these SSDs and Zen 2 CPUs.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Too late. Alex Battlestar Gallatica has already been laying the groundwork for it.

Damn it.......

Well I hope he's wrong because I certainly don't want the PS5 to end up underpowered if you know what I mean.