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[FatKingBallman]

Imagine that and still spending lots less than a ps5 user. but that's it

Well, after that math, looks like Xbox user need to spend more to buy a game :/

 

[MonarchJT]

LOL. What a damn math. Spending months and months months on GPU sub 15$ every month and after that spend another 55$ to buy a game. WTF



Like i said.... Math. And who play 300 games in 1 year and finish them all before they are gone. But before buying Outriders, let's say, you spend 45 $ in 3 months and additional 48$ to buy a game. So, 93$ to literally buy a game and own it

first why you would buy a game that still on the service ...you would buy it when they are pulling it out and I'm sure that at that point, the game will truly be on sale
Your description is incorrect because it makes it seem like all games need to be owned. It is not so. Nobody forces you to buy the games that anyway you can play for a long time it is user choice which you cannot do on ps5. It doesn't matter if in the end you like them or not if you sell it if you play them just for 10 minutes ..on ps5 to play mbl21 nba21 and outridees you have to spend 150 euros (from the ps store) on Xbox 9.99 to play those and hundreds of other games

 

[MonarchJT]

Well, after that math, looks like Xbox users spends more per game :/

a this point you don't understand being very low in math or act obtuse

 

[Menzies]

You do realise PSNOW is cheaper and offers even more games than GamePass right?

And for what reason can you rationalize the gulf in subscribers? If PSNow came out first and has more content, why are there more people on Game Pass?

 

[turtlepowa]

And for what reason can you rationalize the gulf in subscribers? If PSNow came out first and has more content, why are there more people on Game Pass?

Because they all just have to spend 1 buck, permanently!!!!!!

 

[bitbydeath]

And for what reason can you rationalize the gulf in subscribers? If PSNow came out first and has more content, why are there more people on Game Pass?

Why does that matter?

 

[MonarchJT]

You do realise PSNOW is cheaper and offers even more games than GamePass right?

I don't want to mention an Xbox user either ...wake me up when psnow becomes a service loved by Sony users themself .
If Sony will never release exclusives at launch and will not invest in having new games like outriders and many others, there is little to compare.
The service has after years and years only 2.2 million users simply because it is not an attractive offer. period.

 

[HawarMiran]

Why does that matter?

last argument will be "MICROSOFT HAS MORE MONEY!". so don't waste your time. you are having a conversation with very special individuals

 

[NewChoppa]

first why you would buy a game that still on the service ...you would buy it when they are pulling it out and I'm sure that at that point, the game will truly be on sale
Your description is incorrect because it makes it seem like all games need to be owned. It is not so. Nobody forces you to buy the games that anyway you can play for a long time it is user choice which you cannot do on ps5. It doesn't matter if in the end you like them or not if you sell it if you play them just for 10 minutes ..on ps5 to play mbl21 nba21 and outridees you have to spend 150 euros (from the ps store) on Xbox 9.99 to play those and hundreds of other games

I get the value proposition you’re trying to make here - but when it comes to annual sports games like MLB/NBA you probably won’t just play for a month and then put it down completely, most people get involved with the online components of them. You’ll probably be paying for a few months of GP, and at that point you’re no longer just spending $9.99. Same goes for Outriders. If you really get into a GaaS like that, chances are you’re playing for the long term, not just for a month. Still less than what you’re paying on the PS5, sure, but...

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't want to mention an Xbox user either ...wake me up when psnow becomes a service loved by Sony users themself .
If Sony will never release exclusives at launch and will not invest in having new games like outriders and many others, there is little to compare.
The service has after years and years only 2.2 million users simply because it is not an attractive offer. period.

Nah, I wouldn’t want the first party games to receive budgetary impacts to fit into the service.
If we have to pay more to retain quality experiences then so be it.

 

[Papacheeks]

So i wrote a message to Grubb on his youtube just my 2 cents but I understand his stance. It's just it sounds like its coming from someone who never was part of the Playstation Eco-system. If he was, he would see PS5 is a natural progression of what Playstations "For the Player" initiative started last gen.

He just only sees from outside looking in. Which is why people on here and even resetera are disagreeing with his takes on how Jim Ryan/Sony's narrative is not resonating/driving force to positive consumer reception.

Youtube:

​

My issue with your entire article minus the indie talk, is your position in how the company's message to their consumer base is very skewed. You say that PS5 doesn't have the "For the players" initiative?​

​

I argue have you booted up a PS5? Literally all the features of the OS, Having a hint card system, being able to load into a specific part of the game to complete your trophy list. To me all of these quality of life improvements were made for the player, for them being able to do more with their time effeciently. They know gamers only have so much time, especially people with our responsibility's. They continued their narrative from PS4. They never stopped putting out high quality first party, third party exclusives, and signing interesting indie games. ANd i would argue without going down that rabbit hole you opened, that a lot of those indies they seem to "promote" that are bigger than the ones you see on Nintendo. Some of them come from studios who started out small project wise, and Sony gave a spotlight to last gen. They grew and now what they make is more ambitious. Sony was super open for indies in beginning, so it's only natural that since they were the main place for indies for the longest time, that now they can pick and choose what they put in a larger more focused spotlight. Nintendo is basically having the first gen where indie games are a part of the ecosystem. Sony has been with indies for over 2 gens.​

ANd were the premier place when xbox had shitty indie clauses during xbox one. They are reaping the rewards of slowly grooming the small gems of games/studios and getting a great partner reputation. Now they get to reap the rewards in getting higher quality, higher profile indie titles. I agree in Jim Ryan and how he has not done himself or the brand any favors with his messaging. But the games, eco-system/ features kind of do the talking. If they did not have the players in mind, then none of the features in software or hardware they implemented would be player time centric. They now give more games in PS+, and alot are mix of indie/AA/AAA. You are literally writing this article because Jason Schrier put out a article that had validated/backed up information on basically how the business works. But the way it was worded, makes it come off that the internal changes and people being disgruntled about their projects or moves being made are not normal? There's a reason David Jaffe, Cory barlog, neil druckman speak up about alot of what jason writes. ANd thats not because that they are managers in their fields, but that they all came from the trenches and worked their way up to managment. SO they know about crunch being part of the job, they know that your project can get canned and you can be put on something else within the company. You and Jason are writing articles that paint this red light on the industry and use Jim Ryan's bad takes/remarks from a business stance to justify that Sony is not the same or they are in some kind of corporate internal struggle. It's far from the truth.​

 

[oldergamer]

What a shit article SlimySnake

so much nonsense when I’m seeing plenty of risky games in development with both low and high budgets.

Jeff Grubb is a known shill, too.

If that makes you feel better? not everyone shares the same opinions.

 

[Menzies]

Why does that matter?

Well then I'm afraid I misunderstood your point.

It seemed as though it was argued about value and accessibility. My point is that on a macro level of the market, the market has voted with their wallets and determined that Game Pass is a better value and service.

You can argue individual tastes and larger library, but the community has largely latched on to it at far greater numbers because of a more universally perceived value.

 

[bitbydeath]

Well then I'm afraid I misunderstood your point.

It seemed as though it was argued about value and accessibility. My point is that on a macro level of the market, the market has voted with their wallets and determined that Game Pass is a better value and service.

You can argue individual tastes and larger library, but the community has largely latched on to it at far greater numbers because of a more universally perceived value.

Sorry, my point was that PlayStation has a similar offering. Pretending users have to pay X to play games when PSNow exists in competition is just silly.

 

[Interfectum]

So i wrote a message to Grubb on his youtube just my 2 cents but I understand his stance. It's just it sounds like its coming from someone who never was part of the Playstation Eco-system. If he was, he would see PS5 is a natural progression of what Playstations "For the Player" initiative started last gen.

He just only sees from outside looking in. Which is why people on here and even resetera are disagreeing with his takes on how Jim Ryan/Sony's narrative is not resonating/driving force to positive consumer reception.

Youtube:

The gaming media is being heavily influenced by the current PR momentum by MS. What MS has done these past 2-3 months on social media has been near legendary as they've basically taken over the conversation with small bullet points each day. Couple that with Sony making some decisions like closing Japan Studio, closing digital stores no one uses, etc and you have this natural narrative forming. Influencers and biased games journalists have latched on to this and Schreier capitalized on this with his article.

It's really kind of crazy to see the amount of praise MS is getting when they've basically released jack shit so far this gen and paid for some key titles to be on Game Pass... yet PlayStation Studios is the one coming under fire. Like what kind of fucking magic trick did MS PR pull here?

 

[FatKingBallman]

first why you would buy a game that still on the service ...you would buy it when they are pulling it out and I'm sure that at that point, the game will truly be on sale
Your description is incorrect because it makes it seem like all games need to be owned. It is not so. Nobody forces you to buy the games that anyway you can play for a long time it is user choice which you cannot do on ps5. It doesn't matter if in the end you like them or not if you sell it if you play them just for 10 minutes ..on ps5 to play mbl21 nba21 and outridees you have to spend 150 euros (from the ps store) on Xbox 9.99 to play those and hundreds of other games

Oh, i see. Math. So, 180 for a year of Gamepass and and then buy an Outriders ( if that game last a year on service) for 20-30$ on discount then. Holy shit, a 200-210$ to own a damn single game.

I don't want to mention an Xbox user either ...wake me up when psnow becomes a service loved by Sony users themself .
If Sony will never release exclusives at launch and will not invest in having new games like outriders and many others, there is little to compare.
The service has after years and years only 2.2 million users simply because it is not an attractive offer. period.

Because people like to own a game, not rent it.

a this point you don't understand being very low in math or act obtuse

Xbox fan is a synonim for delusional.

 

[Pull n Pray]

But the guy who spends 150 gets to choose what he spends it on. The guy paying 9.99 has to play what’s on the service. Gamepass isn’t for everyone. I don’t know why that’s so hard to understand. Enjoy forza 4 the last best Xbox exclusive (2018).

If you are talking about GameFly, you almost never get the game that you want. You are lucky if you get a game in the top 10 of your queue.

 

[pasterpl]

What does making a profit have to do with increasing prices? Going by that Apple iPhones would still be $400 a pop.

Company going with slogan 4theplayers, makes a record profits and on the back of that announces “hey, we will squeeze you (players) a bit more, we made a sh*t ton of money so we decided we want to make even more, you know 4theplayers“/s. I understand that these corporations are not charities, but I find this sort of shit hilarious, when it is defended by some.

 

[Clear]

Kinda curious as to why Sony is beholden to match Xbox when noone else is?

I mean I don't see Nintendo launching their top titles day#1 as part of a service offering. I don't see Steam launching a subscription to get a raft of games for an all-in-one price. EGS have kinda dabbled a bit in order to drum up numbers, but aren't they the "anti- consumer" bad guys for holding stuff hostage on their storefront?

 

[pasterpl]

People are paying games on PS platform for years at full price, people are paying games on Switch at full price and guess what. Xbox is demolished by both for good reason. Game ownership will always prevail over rental

Do you buy any digital games on PlayStation?

 

[Papacheeks]

The gaming media is being heavily influenced by the current PR momentum by MS. What MS has done these past 2-3 months on social media has been near legendary as they've basically taken over the conversation with small bullet points each day. Couple that with Sony making some decisions like closing Japan Studio, closing digital stores no one uses, etc and you have this natural narrative forming. Influencers and biased games journalists have latched on to this and Schreier capitalized on this with his article.

It's really kind of crazy to see the amount of praise MS is getting when they've basically released jack shit so far this gen and paid for some key titles to be on Game Pass... yet PlayStation Studios is the one coming under fire. Like what kind of fucking magic trick did MS PR pull here?

I mean if people like value, I don't think anyone can deny XBox is where it's at on that front. My issue is I would rather play a great game with a long lasting impression than a bunch of different ones that all have different quality.
Gamepass is fantastic with people with a budget or people who just like playing a ton of different things. Not knocking it, there's a reason it's been gaining so much traction. It is really good.

I'm of the cloth that my time for video games now is super limited. So my time with a game I want it to be purposeful. Sony built their console literally with me in mind with the card system, instant loading. Like I was playing Zombie Army 4 on PS+, btw super dumb fun game. And loading is actually not slow, but still waiting on the game compared to instantly being in the world in Miles is night and day.
I can see where games like Zombie army, and Sony first party can live together without issue. And honestly I prefer that, and I would argue for a lot of Nintendo fans thats how they do it too. Nintendo puts out maybe 1+2 big first party titles a year. And everyone plays them who has a switch.

I think thats what Sony is going for. And to be setup like that, you have to streamline your studios a little bit inline with that. The smaller titles, yea its a shame they wont be coming as much internally. But that is also why SHue yoshida is signing tons of super high quality indies. ANd also why SOny is putting games out like fall guys, zombie army 4 for free on PS+.
I think this works for a lot of people. Obviously not everyone will like this approach. But I want to believe most US/UK/EU seem to in line with what Sony is setting up. And its not like this was a deviation from literally year ago on PS4.

So to me Grubb, wants something to talk about. Jason I think, think's he's changing the landscape by shining a light, and I think he's never worked in a studio period. He needs to work in entertainment on the ground level for like 5 years to get the jest that, hardwork sometimes, and crunch is a thing to complete something your passionate about to put it in the hands of fans. The other part is like any business, sometimes company pivots, and projects get canned/moved or your position get's turned into something else.

There is no set formula for success when your a developer, and the formula that sony/nintendo use has to change and be modified all the time to suit changes in the industry.

 

[Menzies]

Oh, i see. Math. So, 180 for a year of Gamepass and and then buy an Outriders ( if that game last a year on service) for 30 then. Holy shit, a 210$ to own a damn game.

Do you actually think many people are paying for a yearly subscription of Game Pass to play one game and only one game, for a full year?

 

[Kerotan]

Hopefully it carried the whole gen, and not just now.

This foolish sort sighted thinking is Grasshopper vs Ant scenario. They won’t be supply constrained forever and eventually normal people will need a reason to buy one.

The currently announced games alone is enough reason for a lot of "normal" people to buy one.

 

[A Rifter in Space]

PS5 still has no good games. Why would anyone care about that failure of a console? Xbox doesn't either tbh but at least its got gamepass so if you did waste money on a new console you aren't totally screwed.

 

[Zog]

Oh, i see. Math. So, 180 for a year of Gamepass and and then buy an Outriders ( if that game last a year on service) for 20-30$ on discount then. Holy shit, a 200-210$ to own a damn single game.

You think there is only one game on Gamepass?

 

[mitch1971]

Who's Jim Ryan?

 

[FatKingBallman]

You think there is only one game on Gamepass?

Nope, never implied that. But since one member talks about few games ( Outriders, MLB and NBA) of course direction of conversation will be there.

 

[FatKingBallman]

PS5 still has no good games. Why would anyone care about that failure of a console? Xbox doesn't either tbh but at least its got gamepass so if you did waste money on a new console you aren't totally screwed.

So, playing backward compatibility games mostly on XSX. Just like on PS5 then. :/ In addition with new exclusive games which XSeries lacks of

 

[Outrunner]

PS5 still has no good games. Why would anyone care about that failure of a console? Xbox doesn't either tbh but at least its got gamepass so if you did waste money on a new console you aren't totally screwed.

you just have shit taste

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Anyone focused too much on "The Narrative" instead of... you know... games, is doing it wrong, imho.

Goons in the media like Justin Schreier and Jeff Grubb have demonstrated a distinct knack for creating whatever fantasy narratives they want out of very little actual evidence.

Why should gaming companies waste their time and energy chasing online fanboy discussion instead of delivering what gamers actually want... you know... games?

 

[Larvana]

Jim doesn't need to respond to anything that idiot Jeff Grubb writes. That guy is a clown. I stopped reading at the indie part in this. PlayStation has been pushing indies very hard. Go look at their two PS5 showcases last year or any State of Play over the past 2 years. Go look at how they're putting brand-new indie games on PS+ Day 1. Go look at how they'll have a whole day of new indie game announcements on the PlayStation Blog that gets pushed to their tens of millions of fans on Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. This clown has no idea what he is talking about. Probably mad that Sony doesn't leak things for him to talk about in his dumbass Summer Games mess thing. It hurts his ego

Jim is a moron, funny thing is Jeff Grubb has been proven right about a lot of stuff.

 

[Dabaus]

Maybe the Jeff grubbs of the world, besides being xbox shills, are upset that sony doesnt leak them anything so they dont have any Scoops for new clicks? Maybe Sony is grinding away on new games instead of on twitter telling you everything you want to hear and that the golden dawn is only a few years out, just subscribe to this rental service in the meantime? I think we'll have a clearer picture post E3 and when these consoles can actually be found on store shelves, because if your selling out Now, why blow your load?

 

[93xfan]

do PS1 and ps2 bc and give us classic Socom mp, Sony, and I will forget all the things you’ve screwed up (such as killing the Socom franchise through mismanagement of it).

 

[namekuseijin]

here's a more entertaining narrative:

 

[Schmick]

here's a more entertaining narrative:

Wow Xbox was a lot closer to Nintendo than I thought it would be. Well done MS. They really managed to turn things around since the 2013 launch debacle.

 

[Zoro7]

here's a more entertaining narrative:

Sony is in serious trouble.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Wow Xbox was a lot closer to Nintendo than I thought it would be. Well done MS. They really managed to turn things around since the 2013 launch debacle.

Ya. Considering Nintendo sells a shit load of first party games at full pop, I thought they'd be much higher. Goes to show how much third party cuts and higher online fees help MS/Sony.

As for Xbox being third, no problem. I play games, not sales.

I have no problem if BMW has less sales than Toyota.

 

[Hezekiah]

Jim doesn't need to respond to anything that idiot Jeff Grubb writes. That guy is a clown. I stopped reading at the indie part in this. PlayStation has been pushing indies very hard. Go look at their two PS5 showcases last year or any State of Play over the past 2 years. Go look at how they're putting brand-new indie games on PS+ Day 1. Go look at how they'll have a whole day of new indie game announcements on the PlayStation Blog that gets pushed to their tens of millions of fans on Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. This clown has no idea what he is talking about. Probably mad that Sony doesn't leak things for him to talk about in his dumbass Summer Games mess thing. It hurts his ego

I can't believe this guy is almost a pensioner and still coming out with crap like this .

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

Nah, I wouldn’t want the first party games to receive budgetary impacts to fit into the service.
If we have to pay more to retain quality experiences then so be it.

It's a good thing that's not going to happen with Game Pass then, right? If you think the next Elder Scrolls/Doom/Fallout/Halo/Gears/Forza, or games like Fable/Perfect Dark/Avowed etc. are going to all of a sudden become much smaller and poorly made games just because they also happen to appear on Game Pass, then I don't know what to tell you, and it's incredibly obvious you have a clear bias either against Xbox or against subscription services (or both).

 

[Neo Blaster]

Wondering how many more 'Sony is doomed' threads will come till the mods make a dedicated one.

 

[reinking]

Here are my legit complaints against Sony right now.

First-party price hike - We all know they are coming but I think Sony could have waited longer to implement the price hike. MS was smart and since they did not have anything significant launching they let Sony bite that bullet first. Sony should have waited until people were more used to it from third-parties.

The current internal storage expansion- Still waiting.

The PS4 vs PS5 version mess- It is overly complicated.

My concern.

The shakeup of Japan studios.

Everything else does not bother me. It is fearmongering, rumor spreading and I believe in some cases malicious marketing regardless of MS directed or not.

I am no insider and I have no crystal ball but I have seen this play out too many times to be worried about the PS brand.

 

[Hezekiah]

you know i thought sony fanboys were going crazy saying this was a coordinated attack but this is straight up getting suspicious now. its all happening at once too, which makes it even more suspicious. its literally like groudhog day right now.you would think sony increased the price of ps5 by $200 with amount of shit they are receiving.

Didn't Microsoft pay for a concerted FUD campaign against IBM back in the day?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Ya. Considering Nintendo sells a shit load of first party games at full pop, I thought they'd be much higher. Goes to show how much third party cuts and higher online fees help MS/Sony.

As for Xbox being third, no problem. I play games, not sales.

I have no problem if BMW has less sales than Toyota.

This. Pus, it's not exactly a hidden secret that MS had no hardware to sell for most of 2020, until the Series launch that is. That has got to hurt their numbers quite a bit, with most of the remnants of the X1 hardware they did sell being already included in previous quarters (channel clearing basically). Nintendo in contrast was selling switch units all year.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Didn't Microsoft pay for a concerted FUD campaign against IBM back in the day?

Who knows.

But check out these beauties from Sony.

It's the 10th Anniversary of 'All I Want for Xmas is A PSP'

The so bad it's good marketing attempt by Sony Europe where they pretended to run a teenage boy's fansite is ten years old. It created this masterpiece of a video They tried to erase it from the internet, but failed miserably. Never forget. The engadget article from 2006 The great ashens parody

www.neogaf.com

David Manning (fictitious writer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[3liteDragon]

Probably should add this to the OP.

 

[Dick Jones]

Probably should add this to the OP.

Hey I got all the clicks I could from my clickbait article... a tiny twist on the EXACT same article should give me more clicks for another few days. journalism

 

[ManaByte]

Hey I got all the clicks I could from my clickbait article... a tiny twist on the EXACT same article should give me more clicks for another few days. journalism

He makes a good point though:

The PlayStation website does list some notable indie games like Oddworld: Soulstorm, Bugsnax, and Maquette. And each of those launched on PS Plus. Sony still sees value in indie games when it comes to boosting the value of its subscription service. But this initiative is more limited than the first year of PS4 when Sony helped launch indie exclusives like Resogun, Guacamelee, Towerfall Ascension, Velocity 2X, Transistor, The Swapper, Sportsfriends, Hohokum and more.

Some of the "biggest" games around the PS4 launch were indies that Sony helped.

 

[Hezekiah]

Who knows.

But check out these beauties from Sony.

It's the 10th Anniversary of 'All I Want for Xmas is A PSP'

The so bad it's good marketing attempt by Sony Europe where they pretended to run a teenage boy's fansite is ten years old. It created this masterpiece of a video They tried to erase it from the internet, but failed miserably. Never forget. The engadget article from 2006 The great ashens parody

www.neogaf.com

David Manning (fictitious writer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lovely deflection there .

 

[Iced Arcade]

here's a more entertaining narrative:

lmfao just look at that guys twitter

 

[Tutomos]

Grubb is on MS's payroll obviously. He thought Sony was still making money selling TVs, but Playstation was a small division lol.