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DF: Returnal: Housemarque Pushes PlayStation 5 HARD - With Spectacular Results

Can you please explain in fine detail, where did Bill Gates, Steve Jobs,(what is a computer?), Or Gabe Newell touch you? You seem to roam around the forms with a constant anti PC attitude, and I'm really worried if it's PTSD. I just pray they didn't touch you with a SSD from over 10 years ago, and you just never recovered/seeked counseling.



This is exactly whats wrong with guys like you. Ur always itching somethings always itching with u. U just have to keep scratching urself. If you got a problem of me explaining stuff go and protest outside ur mind is full of fanatic console warring. I couldnt care less if you play on pc or console or mobile. My explanations are purely technical if u want to discuss something ive wrote then lets discuss but im not into the console warring pc master race idiocracy. I simply tell it how it is.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
You don't need a crystal ball to know that a 500 dollars machine with barely 10 tf can't sustain 4k60 for 6-8 years when a faaaar more powerfull 5000 pc can't run cyberpunk at 4k60, an "old gen" game...and if you don't like cyberpunk example, you have several older games that can't do that.

No amount of ssd secret sauce or good intentions is gonna change that, 4k60 is heavy AF.
And it is the same with Sex, this is not some console war bullshit, just the reality of facts.
The goal of the system wasn't to build a 4K/60 box because that won't push the graphical paradigm forward, even in the PC arena. They know in current year, that is just too much of a resource hog.

The goal of the box was to do what the UE5 demo shown. And it had everyone fooled that it wasn't native, not to mention Epic said they did more optimizing and got that demo to 60fps now. I will take that fidelity all day everyday at 60, over a native 4K checkbox resource hound with 1/2 to 1/4 the graphical fidelity.

A lot of pretenders in this thread.
 
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My bad. I thought you were taking a swipe at DF for simply pointing out resolution of the game, which is their job.
Np maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original comment. But, not at all. They do a good a really good job. You can't hate on someone for doing their job and pointing out stuff like that.
 

ethomaz

Banned
This tittle makes no sense.
It's low resolution reconstructed and barely uses any RT.
Oh, the particles? Not really impressive when we know that this same studio was able to show almost as many particles in the PS4.
There's nothing here really "pushing" the PS5.
The actual title is.

“Returnal: how a tech powerhouse puts PS5 through its paces”

It is more fitting because it is indeed a marvelous achievement in the gaming industry.
 
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GymWolf

Member
The goal of the system wasn't to build a 4K/60 box because that won't push the graphical paradigm forward, even in the PC arena. They know in current year, that is just too much of a resource hog.

The goal of the box was to do what the UE5 demo shown. And it had everyone fooled that it wasn't native, not to mention Epic said they did more optimizing and got that demo to 60fps now. I will take that fidelity all day everyday at 60, over a native 4K checkbox resource hound with 1/2 to 1/4 the graphical fidelity.

A lot of pretenders in this thread.
Why are you telling me this? I already know all of that.

I was just talking to people that think it is impossible to know the future.

Spoiler alert, it is not with fixed hardware.
 
They locked it at 30 fps but the average resolution was <1440p, so that means it wasn't stable 1440p 30fps. The reason I mentioned CU is because it scales better with resolution than sheer frequency and in order to properly utilise them without a lot of work that's what you do first. So XSX will have a resolution advantage, but that doesn't mean PS5 will be worse off, it will simply target something other than pixel count in order to max the hw. Again, this isn't an XSX > PS5 discussion. The differences are too small.


Right, which goes even further to prove my point. Tech demos show best case scenarios, they're a showcase. When you add production to the calculus it becomes even harder to hit higher than 1080p 60fps while still delivering on those 'next-gen bullet points'. That's why I say it's only games which can limit the workspace (linear/semi-linear) and have lots of engineers (AAAA) that will really push past 1080p 60 fps.

Next-gen open world games will simply not go past 1080p without major sacrifices to either the graphics, world, or framerate. Just look at how hard it is for even the AI-limited Cyberpunk to really do 1080p 60 fps + RT. Once devs start working on the worlds themselves, adding AI routines, making the worlds alive, etc. that will not be any easier of a task.




Tbh I don't understand why people are upset with 1080p, it's a perfectly fine resolution especially for console gaming which is further from the TV anyway.

No, you didn't understand, you're comparing tomatos with oranges. Again, tech-demo is not a game.


They goal was to show Lumen and Nanite.


This goal means 33 milion triangles on each statue. Does a real game uses this colossal polycount?


This goal means cares about put effort in lots of micro-polygon objects, not with optimize the tech-demo to every single SKU.


If EPIC engineers had few months to do this tech-demo, the followed schedule is to reach the goal, not to make resolution fanboys happy.
 
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This is exactly whats wrong with guys like you. Ur always itching somethings always itching with u. U just have to keep scratching urself. If you got a problem of me explaining stuff go and protest outside ur mind is full of fanatic console warring. I couldnt care less if you play on pc or console or mobile. My explanations are purely technical if u want to discuss something ive wrote then lets discuss but im not into the console warring pc master race idiocracy. I simply tell it how it is.
Ok so let's get technical than. You keep on posting anti pc stuff, when it wasn't called for. You're literally doing exactly what you are speaking out against. Did you accidentally put on Jensen Huang's leather jacket? Did Lisa Su chuck a 5900x at the back of your head? You can't try and play the defense card after you keep on shitting on PC gamers, in a thread that isn't even about PC to begin with? (Unless the game releases on PC as well)
 
Ok so let's get technical than. You keep on posting anti pc stuff, when it wasn't called for. You're literally doing exactly what you are speaking out against. Did you accidentally put on Jensen Huang's leather jacket? Did Lisa Su chuck a 5900x at the back of your head? You can't try and play the defense card after you keep on shitting on PC gamers, in a thread that isn't even about PC to begin with? (Unless the game releases on PC as well)
You keep on talking rubbish can you please explain what anti pc stuff have i posted or just stop wasting my time. I aint got all day to chat kiddish stuff.
 

Markio128

Member
Wow, I think I may have actually lost brain cells whilst reading some of these comments. It’s especially confusing considering most of the blithering idiots trying to undermine how amazing this game looks live in the biggest glass houses haha. Ah well, back to the game….
 

Fredrik

Member
Game looks great but a bit surprised the internal resolution is 1080p. I suppose that's the price for Ray-Tracing and 60fps.
My eyes are crap so framerate is king for me. I’m just surprised at the 4K/120fps/RT rumour a few days ago, what was that about?
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
I think it looks ace.

I own a Series S though so what do I know? :messenger_tears_of_joy: I’m perfectly happy with 1080p upscaled, native 1440p etc.

I actually think targeting 4k is a huge waste of resources and will result in barely any technical advancement this gen.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Why is it that certain fans are more concerned with numbers (teraflops, pixels, whatever bean you want to count) than the actual final results?

anyone know why? Because regardless of the methods employed, Returnal looks sharp and has tremendous fluidity
You know why. They will rock them flippy floppies in the other direction, however.
Andy Samberg Flip Flops GIF
 
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very average work, laughable frame resolution and framerate, ugly gfx/art, ps2 gameplay .. meh .. where is your tech pride Housemarque.
I wouldn't say all that. The game looks great, love the particle effects, etc. As matter a fact I have nothing negative to say about the game. I'd love to play the game actually, but there's no way for me to at the moment.

You keep on talking rubbish can you please explain what anti pc stuff have i posted or just stop wasting my time. I aint got all day to chat kiddish stuff.
Look at the first post I quoted from you. Or just look through your post history. Isn't being a console warrior considered childish? Whatever man, just enjoy the games and don't let people preferring PC platform, affect your joy in games. You clearly aren't happy that PC platform exists.
 
I wouldn't say all that. The game looks great, love the particle effects, etc. As matter a fact I have nothing negative to say about the game. I'd love to play the game actually, but there's no way for me to at the moment.


Look at the first post I quoted from you. Or just look through your post history. Isn't being a console warrior considered childish? Whatever man, just enjoy the games and don't let people preferring PC platform, affect your joy in games. You clearly aren't happy that PC platform exists.
Again chatting rubbish. Go find a post where im trashing pc gamers or pcs if you cant find it the swallow your salt. And take a hike.
 

muteZX

Banned
expected 1080p120 mode, rasterization, its an action game you low 50s fps idiots .. 80 bucks for this .. effin never.
 

Kuranghi

Member
I can appreciate the difference between reconstructed 4K and native 4K because I have a world class 65" 4K TV in my face. Most people don't have displays this big, they aren't this close to them and/or they don't provide the quality of image I get from my TV (Because they cost 1/10 the price! But what you get is far from 1/10 the quality so its a great tradeoff).

Even if I had you round to my house and showed you the differences most would still prefer a higher temporal resolution than the difference it makes, thats called personal preference and thats great.

I would LOVE to see this game or Ratchet running at native 4K, but in reality you couldn't have all those lovely graphics effects or high framerate if you did that even on a 4 grand gaming PC so I'm not going to worry about it.
 

RobRSG

Member
Yes, and Xbox Series X is a 756p 30fps machine?

Do you realize how is so unfair judge a hardware by one specific game?

Returnal was made on "generic" UE4. Destruction Allstars, Sackboy, Gears 5, all these games are made in this engine, and doesn't hit perfect native 4k resolution.

IWOS0P8.jpg
you
That’s what you get when a game is developed with pocket change. I gave up playing this thing on a PC with a 3080 in favor of Xbox because the performance is shit and I couldn’t figure out a way to run it acceptably.
 
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Neo_game

Member
It has nothing to do with the size of their studio. Any other studio, to achieve this, would need to likely make the exact same decisions. They now know even more about the system and can find areas of opportunity to exploit to do even better next time. Small Studio, but the entire particle system used for the game isn't Unreal Engine based. They literally made that impressive shit themselves, so they are QUITE capable. There are some big studios that wouldn't have been able to make that particle system that they implemented in this game. They are officially right up there with the best studios due to this game in my view. In fact, they were already there, they just had smaller ambitions in terms of scale and scope. They've now risen those ambitions.

I am not shitting on them and it is true some smaller teams can do impressive gfx like Ninja Theory. Even teams like Remedy, Crytek who are top tier in gfx but are not the best when it comes to optimization IMO.
 
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Stuart360

Member
They concentrated on framerate over resolution, and thats fine as those particle effects dont come cheap.
I play at 1080p on PC as 60fps is more importnat to me. 1080p maybe bad for a next gen system, but i'd say that only counts if the game was 30fps, and not 60fps.
 
I'll never play this because it's absolutely not my thing, but surprised it's 1080p after reading how 'next gen' it was for the last couple of weeks. Watching the videos I was wondering what I was missing as it looked distinctly average, turns out... nothing. People really do go overboard in desperation to praise any Sony exclusive.

Ratchet though, that looks the business. :messenger_fire:
 

SLB1904

Banned
Because you're in the hurry to create a thread, say you are at work right now, but you forget that you can write a summary anytime you like, even steal from others sites.
Tbf i only post the thread because it was one hour since they uploaded and no one bother to do it
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Not really. Just copy the YouTube title and posted here.
Is not my fault people are just so annoying with concern trolling
The new thread title is the YouTube video title though. :pie_thinking:

Agreed with the second sentence. That's inevitable with these threads.
 
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Denton

Member
Is knowing the resolution whats irritating you or actually visibly seeing it as 4k cause i dont get the point here.? Does the final result matter or the way you get there. Of the image quality is 4k i couldnt give a monkeys ass if it was revonstructed from 100p or 0.1p to 4k. Resolutions dont matter anymore reconstruction is king on whatever platform.
I don't disagree actually. I do not consider native all that important. I am just surprised that one of the first exclusives, heavily marketed as 4K 60fps (which I found impressive) is actually upscaling from 1080p.
Of course the end result is still mostly good, so in practice it is not a huge issue. But I do not find this game to look particularly great - Infamous SS from 2014 doesn't really look that much worse to me, if at all.
 
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hroerekr

Member
1080p is a bit disappointing for an exclusive without any hardware variability to balance.

But truth is, this generation is not ready for Resolution + Performance + RT yet. Devs will always have to pick 2.
I'm glad they chose 60fps+RT.
 

kyliethicc

Member
My guess? Sony TV's don't support VRR yet (up until the 2021 models), likely Sony does not want to push a feature that means you have to go buy a competitors TV.

I'd bet once the 2021 TVs are out everywhere and the 2020 TVs have the VRR update applied, you will then see the PS5 update for VRR.
They have said they're waiting for the HDMI Forum to finalize their standard for VRR to add it to their TVs and PS5.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
I think that stuff like the ray tracing is a great bullet point but appreciate the developers transparency and expressing what modern techniques are being used to accelerate games. In some kind of way you have to appreciate the time we are living in as I personally believe we are in one of the biggest paradigm shifts as far as game design, graphical advancements, and overall technical back-end changes and advancements since the beginning of the 3D era.

To the younger people that are in here that have the Fortune of having this hardware and seeing these advancements take place, you have to realize that a lot of us have been around since the 80s playing games have a sense of appreciation for all the techniques and hardware advancements as well as programming and software optimizations which we did not have even 10 years ago.

I guess it helps that I have regular conversation with a small amount of developers who echo a lot of the positive rumors when it comes to the way the consoles have changed or maybe specifically with the PlayStation 5. And I think Microsoft is doing their thing just fine as well but I tend to not read too much into the negative hyperbole when it comes to any of the companies because I know they are all really advancing things a lot on the back end.

I apologize for any typos as I'm driving and using the voice recognition as any responsible person would do 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
 
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Stuart360

Member
1080p is a bit disappointing for an exclusive without any hardware variability to balance.

But truth is, this generation is not ready for Resolution + Performance + RT yet. Devs will always have to pick 2.
I'm glad they chose 60fps+RT.
It will get better as the gen goes along, this is there first game on PS5.
I'd bet if they do a sequel, it will probably be better looking, and probably something like 1440p internal rez.

Having said that, all the shit Sony fanboys give Series S over its 1080p targets, well this does produce a problem for that going forward.
 

ethomaz

Banned
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The key for this console generation would be developing better and better upscaling and reconstruction technologies that scale up from a base 1080p-1440p range.

Well, not just this console generation either, even if the next generation have GPUs that are 5x faster in normal rasterisation (likely way more in RT) and have bandwidth in excess of 1TB/s, reconstruction and upscaling would still be of immense value.

DLSS and other resolution techniques FTW. Anyway



To be fair if this was an XSX title running at those specs certain people would be jumping all over it on this forum...

Yeah, because XSX is on par with Nvidia 3080 RTX. :/ People told me that

Seems like xbox fanboys got their 5 minutes for a resolution revenge on quantum break

You mean KZ Shadowfall multyplayer

Resolution doesn't matter
Nobody can tell the difference
Good upscale better than native


I am doing it right folks?

Upscaled and reconstructed are very often used interchangeably like in this case. It uses a taa upscale just like dlss is a taa upscale.

1080p upscaled, no image visible raytracing, and it drops framerate, all the while developed for single SKU..

This is surprising. Considering how pedestrian the game looks I genuinely thought it would be running in native 4K.

Can't watch at work. Is there noticeable artifacts with the combined use of Temporal Upscaling and Checkerboard Rendering?

There is no upscaling in this game. Upscaling and reconstruction are totally different things. No need to spin it

I wouldn't believe what he said honestly. Xbox content creators or youtube pages have been praising the shit out of returnal. And where are you getting this idea from Xbox gamers have nothing to look forward to or play? Hyperbole my friend! Xbox is stacked for the next few months and coming years. It doesn't matter if some big releases are further out. We have many big releases that are coming this year and Game Pass keeps dropping more and more amazing stuff for us to play.

Oh, PS5 is stacked in the same way as Xbox. Even more, with exclusive, you know, which on Xbox are still far away

Anyway.
 
1080p is a bit disappointing for an exclusive without any hardware variability to balance.

But truth is, this generation is not ready for Resolution + Performance + RT yet. Devs will always have to pick 2.
I'm glad they chose 60fps+RT.

You know that IQ is better than native 1080p. Why whining?
 
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