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[Rhazer Fusion]

This is why it's a smarter choice to wait for a PS5 Pro model and play true next-gen games there, unless you're afraid of missing out the latest trending games and you're fine buying a first model PS5 for $500 in 2021/22 (good luck with that), and spending another $500 for an inevitable Pro model in 2023 or having the hassle of selling the old console or trading it in. And you can bet there will be a Pro model by the end of 2023, current consoles are barely capable of doing native 4K @60 fps, let alone decent ray-tracing at @60 fps.

I won't play TLOU3 on an old ass PS5 for sure, and I will also play improved versions of older games. Meanwhile, I will clear up the backlog on my PS4 Pro. Which is a pretty silent one, by the way.

To be honest, I don’t think the PS5 shortage will truly end until sometime in late 2022 to early 2023, so I’m not sure Sony working on a more capable PS5 Pro version that soon would be smart considering they are struggling to get the regular PS5’s into gamers hands.

 

[DustQueen]

No... The biggest problem is 3 more years of treads like this

 

[SLB1904]

so ratchet was 1 year dev cycle? lol

Ratchet start development by guessing the ps5 specs. There is an interview where they talk about how many enemies they should put on the screen and they didn't know.

I don't know why this is controversial when literally every single launch game starts that way

 

[Birdo]

Are you serious? What about NPC density? Amount of enemies on screen? Asset fidelity and complexity? AI? Physics?

Dial them down on the last-gen versions. No harm done to the next-gen version.

This isn't something new, it's been common practice for decades. Especially on PC.

 

[Tschumi]

The pandemic and global chip shortage have absolutely nothing to do with why God Of War is on the Ps4. The game would have been in production long before the pandemic or shortage started. It was always meant to be a Playstation 4 game, which is fine - Sony just weren't honest about it. There's the problem.

i mean, you're a poster of standing so i'm not gonna say i call bs on you - but i'm genuinely a bit ignorant of whatever you're talking about so if you could back it up with a link or two, or whatever, i'd appreciate it.

 

[Fredrik]

And in three yrs time there will prob be a ps5 pro out by then

Well I can’t find a PS5 anyway, might just as well start waiting for a PS5 Pro I won’t be able to buy.

This gen so far:

Looking at trailers:

Looking at store supply:

 

[SLB1904]

No... The biggest problem is 3 more years of treads like this

Nah. There will be loads of next gen games before this 3 put a game made from the ground up for ps5.

 

[FunkMiller]

i mean, you're a poster of standing so i'm not gonna say i call bs on you - but i'm genuinely a bit ignorant of whatever you're talking about so if you could back it up with a link or two, or whatever, i'd appreciate it.

Why do I need to link to something? Triple AAA game development takes many, many years. If Sony are targeting a 2022 release for God Of War Ragnarok, then the game would have been in development long before the chip shortages or pandemic. Unless you think they started work on it last January?

 

[FunkMiller]

Dial them down on the last-gen versions. No harm done to the next-gen version.

This isn't something new, it's been common practice for decades. Especially on PC.

Fuck me, chief. Games design isn't just all about a few sliders you can move about, changing superficial stuff like you're talking about.

 

[Tschumi]

Why do I need to link to something? Triple AAA game development takes many, many years. If Sony are targeting a 2022 release for God Of War Ragnarok, then the game would have been in development long before the chip shortages or pandemic. Unless you think they started work on it last January?

i'm sorry i didn't realise i was tripping some kinda trigger, i really don't care much about this and i just put up my idea, fine don't give me links lol

 

[Guilty_AI]

Asset fidelity and complexity?

Sacrifice this one and you can get these ones:

What about NPC density? Amount of enemies on screen?

Also:

AI? Physics?

You wouldn't be getting much of either even with next gen only

 

[SLB1904]

Why do I need to link to something? Triple AAA game development takes many, many years. If Sony are targeting a 2022 release for God Of War Ragnarok, then the game would have been in development long before the chip shortages or pandemic. Unless you think they started work on it last January?

Watching raising kratos and you could see santa Monica working on their next project. Now we know is God of war

 

[FunkMiller]

i'm sorry i didn't realise i was tripping some kinda trigger, i really don't care much about this and i just put up my idea, fine don't give me links lol

Mate... do I really need to link you to some online article about how long games take to develop? Because if I do, are you sure you're on the right forum?

 

[VN1X]

What if and hear me out now... the games, regardless of platform, are actually really good in and of themselves rather than being wholly dependent on the visual fidelity they so happen to boast? What if a game coming out on PS4 can still look great on its own merrits but would look even better when played on PS5? A win for everyone no?

But I guess some of you have brainworms which cause you to think in terms of:
"Imagine caring about the quality of a game in 2021 OMEGALUL giv gud gfx now pls"

 

[skit_data]

Every game that start development before the end of last year started as ps4 game or at least on ps5 paper specs.
It sucks that the next God of war and others are cross gen but it would be literally impossible to not be. Unless they release a new ip before their next big game

Yeah, I have full understanding that it would be completely unecessary to throw it all in the paper bin and I actually prefer this way of doing it vs. waiting half of this gen to get those ”true next gen”-exclusives.

But i also could see Sony have Polyphony Digital target PS4 first, realize their console is gonna sell like hotcakes and say ”guys, target these PS5 specs instead” only to shift their target to both PS4 and PS5 because they want a stronger multiplayer community when they realize they simply can’t produce enough units to meet demand.

This of course, is just pure speculation though but could provide an explanation to the ”PS5 exclusive” tag in the GT7 promo videos. I could see that type of change be done with GT7 because it’s a racing game but I really can’t see that being the case with God of War Ragnarök

 

[Mister Wolf]

Have you seen Ratchet and Demons?

They are not "strong" IPs for Sony

Insomniac Games’ Most Successful Games Broken Down, What Came Out On Top?

While there’s no doubt that its upcoming Spider-Man game for PlayStation 4 will be a best [...]

comicbook.com

 

[SLB1904]

Dial them down on the last-gen versions. No harm done to the next-gen version.

This isn't something new, it's been common practice for decades. Especially on PC.

Lmao. And what game takes full advantage of the high end cards? Star citizen did that in 2013 or crysis by that. But that's about it. So stop comparing PC with consoles

 

[Tschumi]

Mate... do I really need to link you to some online article about how long games take to develop? Because if I do, are you sure you're on the right forum?

there's nothing wrong with a thing i've said lol get fucked

 

[Birdo]

Fuck me, chief. Games design isn't just all about a few sliders you can move about, changing superficial stuff like you're talking about.

Did the Switch version of Doom hold back the PS4 version?

 

[SLB1904]

They are not "strong" IPs for Sony

Insomniac Games’ Most Successful Games Broken Down, What Came Out On Top?

While there’s no doubt that its upcoming Spider-Man game for PlayStation 4 will be a best [...]

comicbook.com

What? Ratchet is literally everywhere. Billboards and all of that. And this has nothing to do with being next gen lol.

 

[Unknown?]

Hell yeah.
Imagine the jaguar cpu and hdd for another 2 years
Imo an average gamer pc already have specs surpassing it.

Something like iphone12 cpu runs ring around jaguar.

pretty evident in HFW, despite the ultra high detailed aloy and vegetation. The game plays right out of ps4.

All PC games play right out of PS4 too!

 

[FunkMiller]

there's nothing wrong with a thing i've said lol get fucked

You're very strange.

 

[SLB1904]

You're very strange.

Indeed lol

 

[FunkMiller]

Did the Switch version of Doom hold back the PS4 version?

That was a downport, not a game designed to run on the lesser hardware from the get go.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

We should get a glimpse of their next gen roadmap for 2022/23 during E3 season

 

[Mister Wolf]

What? Ratchet is literally everywhere. Billboards and all of that. And this has nothing to do with being next gen lol.

Ratchet and Clank doesn't deliver big sales. Never has. Which is why they didn't give a shit about it not being on PS4 like their "strong" franchises such as Gran Turismo, GOW, and Horizon. Should we compare sales between those franchises and R&C?

 

[Birdo]

That was a downport

Bingo. That's how it works.

 

[skit_data]

Did the Switch version of Doom hold back the PS4 version?

The Switch version is a port made by another developer, Panic Button. You can bet it would’ve impacted IDs development of Doom in one way or another if it was included as a day and date release along with the other platforms.

The fact that they had to have another port-specialized developer to do it is pretty much proof IMO

 

[Kumomeme]

atleast there is gonna be third party game that next gen exclusives.

also doubt all Sony game gonna be cross gen. Rachet and Clank is good example.

 

[SLB1904]

Ratchet and Clank doesn't deliver big sales. Never has. Which is why they didn't give a shit about it not being on PS4 like their "strong" franchises such as Gran Turismo, GOW, and Horizon. Should we compare sales between those franchises and R&C?

That still has nothing to do of being next gen

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Ratchet and Clank don't deliver big sales. Never has. Which is why they didn't give a shit about it not being on PS4 like their "strong" franchises such as Gran Turismo, GOW, and Horizon. Should we compare sales between those franchises and R&C?

Ratchet was in the ball park of GoW numbers pre-reboot

You're underestimating how big the first true next gen mainline title in years will be

 

[FunkMiller]

Bingo. That's how it works.

No, dude. It really isn't. God Of War Ragnarok hasn't been designed to take full advantage of the Ps5, and then they've downgraded it to get it to run on Ps4. CD Projekt Red kinda tried that with Cyberpunk and look what happened. Ragnarok will be a Ps4 game (loading corridors and everything), with superficial bells and whistles on the Ps5. I know you're trying to bang the scalability drum as hard as you can, as if every game can just be designed for every level of technology, and all you have to do is move a few sliders about, but there are things the Ps5 and Series X can do that the last gen consoles can not. But I guess you won't believe that until we have direct comparisons to make between games exclusively designed for next gen, and the ones designed to run on last gen too.

 

[Miles708]

All of this will maybe teach people to not constantly run after marketing slogans and actually buy the hardware only after the software they want has been released.

 

[Sygma]

I don't understand the crux of the argument. So what? If cross Gen wasn't a factor, people would be like "wait for a couple of years to see the magic, it's unrealistic to ask for the potential of the hardware to be realised straight away!!"

Gimme a bunch of killer apps made in the 2-3 first years of ps4

Right now it looks like people are pissed because of how meaningful the jump of hardware is and how disappointed they are in regard to expectations vs reality with a whole new narrative to use instead of the usual one

 

[JoeBudden]

This is pure entitlement. Sony, like everyone else, was obviously impacted by the pandemic. That's why they're doing this.

And, acting like it will take +3 years to see an exclusive title that completely leverages the PS5 hardware is just fear mongering.

God of War PS4 with the PS5 patch still looks unbelievably good. I expect Ragnarok to still look amazing despite being a cross-gen title.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Ratchet was in the ball park of GoW numbers pre-reboot

You're underestimating how big the first true next gen mainline title in years will be

Wrong:

God of War series has sold over 21 million copies

The God of War series has sold over 21 million copies, Sony has announced. An update on the Sony Computer Entertainment…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[jroc74]

Why everyone ignores. Ratchet. Demons and returnal

Because reasons. lol

To just outright dismiss Rift Apart is special tho.

Like...Insomniac already did a cross gen game... So, why dismiss Rift Apart.....

I'll say it again, seems some ppl think platform holders cant do multiple things.

Its not pure fantasy that a platform holder can have cross gen and next gen exclusives within the first 2 years.

That said, them having cross gen games in 2022 is head scratching., unless they all were targeting 2021.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Have to agree. Ridiculous that 22’ titles have to be cross gen, when by that point in time PS5 versions will represent over 80% of sell through.

 

[NahaNago]

What if and hear me out now... the games, regardless of platform, are actually really good in and of themselves rather than being wholly dependent on the visual fidelity they so happen to boast? What if a game coming out on PS4 can still look great on its own merrits but would look even better when played on PS5? A win for everyone no?

But I guess some of you have brainworms which cause you to think in terms of:
"Imagine caring about the quality of a game in 2021 OMEGALUL giv gud gfx now pls"

The game was always going to look better on ps5 if it was a port from ps4. Plus the game was always going to be good for the most part if it came from Sony anyways. The issue most folks are having is what could the developers have done differently if they had only developed for the ps5 and what cutbacks did they have to do to the game to make them look and play similarly to both platforms. You can scale all you want but the game still has to work well for both platforms so ps4 will still hold the game back. Granted ghost of tsushima and last of us 2 look amazing so I'm not completely stressed out over last gen games.

This is pure entitlement. Sony, like everyone else, was obviously impacted by the pandemic. That's why they're doing this.

And, acting like it will take +3 years to see an exclusive title that completely leverages the PS5 hardware is just fear mongering.

God of War PS4 with the PS5 patch still looks unbelievably good. I expect Ragnarok to still look amazing despite being a cross-gen title.

They are doing this because they have over a hundred million ps4 owners. The pandemic is just the excuse. Sony has been shady and only releasing info piece by piece so they can change things up whenever they feel like it without committing. Just like how they are going to be releasing more games on to pc. This isn't that shocking when you look at the decisions they have been making lately.

I don't understand the crux of the argument. So what? If cross Gen wasn't a factor, people would be like "wait for a couple of years to see the magic, it's unrealistic to ask for the potential of the hardware to be realised straight away!!"

Gimme a bunch of killer apps made in the 2-3 first years of ps4

Right now it looks like people are pissed because of how meaningful the jump of hardware is and how disappointed they are in regard to expectations vs reality with a whole new narrative to use instead of the usual one

I was wowed by killzone shadwofall even though it was not my kind of game.

 

[hyperbertha]

Dial them down on the last-gen versions. No harm done to the next-gen version.

This isn't something new, it's been common practice for decades. Especially on PC.

the size of levels that can be put in a game designed with 16 gb memory is different from one with an 8 gb memory, to say an easy example. If gow2 is made with 8gb in mind, they cant just change level size for the 16 gb version. Its going to be gimped to the lowest common denominator. Gow1's worlds were pretty damn small. Its going to be probably the same for gow2.

 

[TheGejsza]

Yeah... It's the same crap that happens on pc you know? So many games that can be played on onboard graphic cards and can't reach their full potential.

If only there was a thing called scalability and devs could add settings to turn on and off stuff according to the hardware capabilities... If only...

You don't understand difference between graphic quality and game design. I never said that games will look bad on PS5 because of PS4. My main problem is that game design will be toned done to things possible on PS4. The experience will be hampered down by 10 years old hardware. Now imagine that PC games had to run on 10 years old GPU and CPU. Tell me what current games you can run on 10yo pc right now...

There is some kind of missconception about next Gen - many people only things that the image quality (graphics) is the only thing that next Gen brings to the table. But there is much more too it - with new hardware devs are free of limitation of old gen. You just don't seems to notice anything beside image quality. Things like animation and inverse kinematic, physics, AI etc. it's all part of the experience. Go play FF7R and see how many times you need to squeeze through some kind of spot - you thing devs add those kind of features because they are "fun"? No, it's a band aid to slow loadings.

GoW on ps4 is full of those solutions, elevators, portals, the tree rotating, slow lake swimming etc. Does it make game bad? No, GoW was brilliant. But could it be better? Ofc it could...

You think sliders are the solution to anything but that's not it. You can't slider down ammount of enemies or level size. Or I case of Spider Man - they said you could not swing faster and that they had to slow down Spiderman after free fall because PS4 hdd could not keep up with loading the city. Now go see Miles Morales - does he swinhs faster? No he does not. Why? Because chase sequences were design with PS4 travelsal speed. This is what I mean. Changing core gameplay to keep up with old hardware.

Maybe SantaMonica wanted to allow Kratos to fly with the Mjolnir just like Thor but guess what - this thing is out of the window right at the stage of pre production because devs are aware of Ps4 capabilities.

The whole game design is compromised to the old hardware. Why you never see AC kind of game where you could climb up everywhere on map on PS2? You think it's because noone ever thought about it? No, it's because the hardware was limited at that time...

Why we never had game like uncharted on PS1 but just in lower res and lower effects? Because PS1 could not handle słuch a big zones and complex animations. Your whole point is failing if you think the only thing where games are evolving is in image quality...

 

[Birdo]

the size of levels that can be put in a game designed with 16 gb memory is different from one with an 8 gb memory

You ever played Breath of The Wild?

 

[FunkMiller]

This is pure entitlement. Sony, like everyone else, was obviously impacted by the pandemic. That's why they're doing this.

And, acting like it will take +3 years to see an exclusive title that completely leverages the PS5 hardware is just fear mongering.

God of War PS4 with the PS5 patch still looks unbelievably good. I expect Ragnarok to still look amazing despite being a cross-gen title.

Once again... God Of War Ragnarok being on PS4 has nothing to do with the pandemic. It was in development long before it started.

And most people (Myself included) aren’t so much annoyed at Sony for doing cross gen, but for not being more up front about before the Ps5 launched. Some of us may have made a different purchasing choice has they been more transparent.

 

[hyperbertha]

You ever played Breath of The Wild?

so?

 

[Birdo]

so?

It's world is pretty big....

 

[JoeBudden]

They are doing this because they have over a hundred million ps4 owners. The pandemic is just the excuse. Sony has been shady and only releasing info piece by piece so they can change things up whenever they feel like it without committing. Just like how they are going to be releasing more games on to pc. This isn't that shocking when you look at the decisions they have been making lately.

The pandemic was just an excuse? Do you know what's been going on in the world for the last year?

 

[hyperbertha]

It's world is pretty big....

It is also ps2 levels in terms of visual fidelity. Explain why god of war have small worlds? The size of the world you can give your games depend on many factors. The more complex your game, the harder it gets.

 

[FunkMiller]

You ever played Breath of The Wild?

Why doesn’t Breath Of The Wild’s open world look as high fidelity as Red Dead 2s? Why isnt it as big? Why doesnt it have as many NPCs? Why isn’t it as detailed?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Why doesn’t Breath Of The Wild’s open world look as high fidelity as Red Dead 2s? Why isnt it as big? Why doesnt it have as many NPCs? Why isn’t it as detailed?

Why RDR 2 can have a high fidelity, detailed, huge open world with many NPCs on the ps4 and GOW ragnarok can't?

 

[Birdo]

Why doesn’t Breath Of The Wild’s open world look as high fidelity as Red Dead 2s? Why isnt it as big? Why doesnt it have as many NPCs? Why isn’t it as detailed?

It turns out that you can still have large open-worlds if you dial down other assets to compensate for lower spec hardware.....