Support NeoGAF

[Punished Miku]

I agree that they clearly aren't marketing and messaging as well, or as clearly as the PS4 launch team was. People can knock messaging, but that is kind of what created the narrative around the launch of both consoles last gen. It does matter at least a little bit. Don Mattrick was bad at it, and Sony was really great at it. Now the roles honestly seem to have flipped again on that front.

Playstation materially isn't making the same level of errors as Xbox was last gen, but they're making some errors. They still have a great system and great first party teams, so they're fine. But they're dropping the ball a bit in terms of pricing ($70 games, overpriced Spider-Man PS5, Destruction All-Stars was initially $70 until backlash, Returnal, $10 GoT upgrade), and they are not communicating to their fans clearly at all about their philosophy and expectations around yearly shows like E3. Then they closed Japan Studio. Now they seem to be investing in a few areas that don't personally appeal to me, like a new ex-Call of Duty studio, and whatever Jade Raymond is doing.

People exaggerate all this. Sony is still going to do extremely well. But people also try and exaggerate how flawless they are as well and pretend that some of their fans aren't slightly concerned. It's all stuff that can be corrected if they would take a little constructive criticism. They have all the major stuff in place, but are blowing it on small details over and over.

 

[nekrik]

Good. Imho, the Playstation is the most serious gaming choice right now. Both in quality, production and exclusivity values! Their Stocks are high and the ps5 demand says it all!

 

[Roman Empire]

I see no point in this thread whatsoever. It smells of console warring bait.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Defensive fan boys will say whatever to make themselves feel better about their favorite brand. But the truth is that from a customer perspective. Their communication and community engagement was much better from 2012-2018 than it is now. They are taking all the wrong lessons from nintendo these days. Overly conservative, and they rarely communicate. I noticed that companies are much more open and willing to let you know whats up when they have something to prove. Thats why microsoft is currently doing better in this department (they better be, they still haven't released a new fucking game for their new consoles) and why sony was doing it so well early in the ps4’s life cycle. Even nintendo communicated more frequently and substantially during the wii u era

 

[MikeM]

MS is winning the PR war from my perspective. But Sony is doing what Sony does- dropping quality games. And that is what gamers care about.

 

[FranXico]

Now we know who got assigned to Voost Kain's position.

 

[ZywyPL]

I like Hulst a lot since the first (real) KZ2 trailer was shown and he started giving a lot of interviews ever since, he's such a nice guy you really cannot dislike him no matter what, but he has Ryan above him so he has to follow whatever strategy his boss decides, that's his job, that's what he's getting paid for.

Now Jim "we believe in generations" Ryan is a totally different story, he's basically Sony's Bobby Kotick/Don Mattrick, it's just better to keep him away from doing any sort of interviews, including their own PS Blogs.

*laughs in Jim Ryan*

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Sorry, I think you are in the wrong thread. This one is about Sony, not Xbox.

Suuuuuuuuure.

GOW 2018 was revealed in 2015, 3 years until release, Ghost of Tsushima was revealed in 2017 and released in 2020 3 years later.

I don't care how many gameplay trailers is released between the reveal and the release period if you announce something and don't release it 6-12 months later you're just as bad.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Suuuuuuuuure.

GOW 2018 was revealed in 2015, 3 years until release, Ghost of Tsushima was revealed in 2017 and released in 2020 3 years later.

I don't care how many gameplay trailers is released between the reveal and the release period if you announce something and don't release it 6-12 months later you're just as bad.

If that was still their strategy they would have announced a lot more games last year

 

[nekrik]

MS is winning the PR war from my perspective. But Sony is doing what Sony does- dropping quality games. And that is what gamers care about.

 

[FunkMiller]

Sony is at the top of the pile right now, which has led to some rather hubristic practises creeping back in, along with arguably some complacency.

This is why it's healthy if Microsoft start making in-roads into their dominance.

None of us benefit from any one company dominating with no decent competition.

 

[Markio128]

The emptiest vessels make the loudest noise. In short, Sony don’t need to shout from the rooftops because they are performing well. Yes, I’d love more info on GT7 and a few other games, but they are not close to releasing, so I can wait.

 

[Punished Miku]

The emptiest vessels make the loudest noise.

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses."
- Abraham Lincoln

 

[JoeBudden]

Who gives a fuck about messaging when you have actual exclusives to play. None of this clearly matters since Sony is dominating both hardware and software sales. Its just chatty patty drama.

Most of this 'messaging' bullshit is just fanboys twisting or extrapolating words from executives who don't even play games to create or exaggerate issues to dunk on Sony. These things turn into narratives that only seem to exist online. This applies to Sony fans doing the same with Phil Spencer too. Most of the outrage and concern is completely disingenuous and phony. Its just console war bullshit. You see it with how people were completely refusing to acknowledge the free PS5 patch for Ghost of Tsushima or free expansion last year just to further their evil greedy arrogant Sony narrative.

All of these guys screaming "...for something the other platform does for free!" were quiet for a whole generation while MS paywalled F2P games. You know, the most popular online games like Fortnite, Apex Legends, and Warzone - all of which you could play on platforms other than Xbox for completely free. This wasn't lifted until just a couple months ago.

All of the people upset at the $10 cost for the PS5 version of Ghost, can be found in Mass Effect Legendary threads having no issue paying $50 for games they purchased over 10 years ago with minimal changes today. But, because Bioware isn't linked to a platform, its not as big of an issue lol. And, the games with free native next gen upgrades? They never mention how these games extract money from consumers in so many different ways. DOOM Eternal has nasty microtransactions and multiple paid expansions, and likewise with Destiny 2. Borderlands 3 has fucking Season Passes.

There's inconsistent outrage. All this shit is just console war bullshit that doesn't matter in real life.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

If that was still their strategy they would have announced a lot more games last year

My original point was to expect a lot of CG trailers because of the pandemic effect on production, and the guy simply replied with the usual console wars BS, let's not forget Horizon Forbidden West was announced with a CG trailer in late 2020 and won't be out until 2022, GOW Ragnarok was a logo reveal and won't be out any time soon either by the looks of it, so drop the fan boy BS and realize this is an industry wide situation not just PlayStation or Xbox.

 

[JORMBO]

Sony is fine. Look at how everything is selling. Your average person just looks at a release list and picks up what they like when it comes out. They aren't concerned about Sony's messaging. Even the more hardcore gamers will still buy all their stuff even if they don't like the messaging. None of this is really an issue.

 

[Whitecrow]

MS is winning the PR war from my perspective. But Sony is doing what Sony does- dropping quality games. And that is what gamers care about.

Sony cant lose the PR war since they are not even playing.

It's just uncle Phil playing tabletop tennis agains himself

 

[NahaNago]

The messaging and marketing has been kinda terrible but they have good to great first party titles being released right now so they are for the most part okay.

 

[Topher]

MS is winning the PR war from my perspective. But Sony is doing what Sony does- dropping quality games. And that is what gamers care about.

If it is a choice between being good at talking and being good at delivering, I'll take delivering. Sony delivers.

But yes, they kind of suck at talking.

 

[RoboFu]

You are asking a forum where over 60% of the users are Playstation fanboys if sony is doing a good job?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

My original point was to expect a lot of CG trailers because of the pandemic effect on production, and the guy simply replied with the usual console wars BS, let's not forget Horizon Forbidden West was announced with a CG trailer in late 2020 and won't be out until 2022, GOW Ragnarok was a logo reveal and won't be out any time soon either by the looks of it, so drop the fan boy BS and realize this is an industry wide situation not just PlayStation or Xbox.

Most of the first party games they announced last year are already out. Forbidden West will be out in the first year of the PS5. All thats left will be GoW and GT7 which will be out next year, so year 2 at the latest.

I think you need to stfu.

 

[JLB]

The state of PlayStation has never been better. Sony are the market leaders, they brought a state of the art console right out of the gate and their first party IPs are bigger, better and sells more than ever before. Simply put, Sony are at the top of their game.

A console with a hard drive expansion port that is disabled to date is now a “state of the art” product. Hilarious lol

 

[Heisenberg007]

• Is the PS5 seeing unprecedented levels of demand? Yes.
• Is the PS5 expected to break the all-time console sales record? Yes.
• Is Sony beating its competitors and still the #1 gaming console company? Yes.
• Are more people flocking to the PlayStation ecosystem? Yes.
• Is the company posting recording profits and revenue? Yes.

There you have it.

The messaging is right, because it's working.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I agree that they clearly aren't marketing and messaging as well, or as clearly as the PS4 launch team was. People can knock messaging, but that is kind of what created the narrative around the launch of both consoles last gen. It does matter at least a little bit. Don Mattrick was bad at it, and Sony was really great at it. Now the roles honestly seem to have flipped again on that front.

Playstation materially isn't making the same level of errors as Xbox was last gen, but they're making some errors. They still have a great system and great first party teams, so they're fine. But they're dropping the ball a bit in terms of pricing ($70 games, overpriced Spider-Man PS5, Destruction All-Stars was initially $70 until backlash, Returnal, $10 GoT upgrade), and they are not communicating to their fans clearly at all about their philosophy and expectations around yearly shows like E3. Then they closed Japan Studio. Now they seem to be investing in a few areas that don't personally appeal to me, like a new ex-Call of Duty studio, and whatever Jade Raymond is doing.

This post highlights just how insane and fleeting online console fans can get with their opinions on what's going on in the industry.

See, not communicating to fans their expectations and philosophy around yearly shows like E3 is... a complete non issue, since every year they deliver a show, announcements, previews etc. Talk about grasping at straws...

Apparently the price is a humongous problem, yet, PS5 is the only next gen system doing big numbers in software sales. Oh geez... what a problem to have.

"Then they closed Japan Studio", a studio that for a decade hasn't released a single hit but became Xbox's fans favourite Playstation studio overnight.... now "replaced" by Team Asobi, a critical darling.

"Areas that don't appeal to me like ex call of duty studio, whatever Jade Raymond is doing" my god, this is the ultimate "bitch eating crackers" right here.

I just wanna say how delicious it is to see fanboys struggling to maintain this whole narrative, even when history is telling them shit ain't happening as they dream it will.

 

[Heisenberg007]

My original point was to expect a lot of CG trailers because of the pandemic effect on production, and the guy simply replied with the usual console wars BS, let's not forget Horizon Forbidden West was announced with a CG trailer in late 2020 and won't be out until 2022, GOW Ragnarok was a logo reveal and won't be out any time soon either by the looks of it, so drop the fan boy BS and realize this is an industry wide situation not just PlayStation or Xbox.

Horizon Forbidden West wasn't announced with a CG trailer. You are literally using incorrect information in your arguments.

 

[arvfab]

My original point was to expect a lot of CG trailers because of the pandemic effect on production, and the guy simply replied with the usual console wars BS, let's not forget Horizon Forbidden West was announced with a CG trailer in late 2020 and won't be out until 2022, GOW Ragnarok was a logo reveal and won't be out any time soon either by the looks of it, so drop the fan boy BS and realize this is an industry wide situation not just PlayStation or Xbox.

As you seem to be one of the few who already got confirmation that Forbidden West is going to be pushed back to 2022, do you maybe have any other insider news? Is Abandoned a Kojima game? Any truth in the MGS remake by Bluepoint? Is BP a Sony studio now/soon?

You also seem to forget that Sony also showed the Demon's Souls remake, Ratchet and Clank, Returnal, Sackboy, Miles Morales and Destruction All-Stars at the same time and guess what, they have all been released....

 

[Captain Toad]

Can people not see the Poll title itself?

It asks "Is PS's Messaging right now good or bad?"

And then you give options yes and no. Brilliant!

 

[Thirty7ven]

Just a last remark on the whole messaging thing...

This E3 was considered by many to have been an incredible E3 for Xbox, just a huge turn of the tide. Yet here we are, with Battlefield, Elden Ring, Breath of the Wild 2 and Forza Horizon 5 being the games that had the most impact... and what changed for Playstation? Absolutely 0, no impact at all. It's the fifth iteration of FH, there's nothing here that will make people change their minds about these consoles. "Oh but GP", yeah well again... what's new? Oh that's right, nothing.

Isn't it incredible that this year Playstation has yet to try its hand at the whole "let's do a hype show", and yet it's still the most in demand, the most hyped, the most talked about, the one that is selling a lot of software already... It's like the standard is "Xbox wins if it tries" and "Playstation loses if it doesn't make Xbox look like its made for idiots, by idiots".

 

[Papacheeks]

Suuuuuuuuure.

GOW 2018 was revealed in 2015, 3 years until release, Ghost of Tsushima was revealed in 2017 and released in 2020 3 years later.

I don't care how many gameplay trailers is released between the reveal and the release period if you announce something and don't release it 6-12 months later you're just as bad.

God of war was shown to the world in E3 2016 not 2015.

 

[Punished Miku]

This post highlights just how insane and fleeting online console fans can get with their opinions on what's going on in the industry.

See, not communicating to fans their expectations and philosophy around yearly shows like E3 is... a complete non issue, since every year they deliver a show, announcements, previews etc. Talk about grasping at straws...

Apparently the price is a humongous problem, yet, PS5 is the only next gen system doing big numbers in software sales. Oh geez... what a problem to have.

"Then they closed Japan Studio", a studio that for a decade hasn't released a single hit but became Xbox's fans favourite Playstation studio overnight.... now "replaced" by Team Asobi, a critical darling.

"Areas that don't appeal to me like ex call of duty studio, whatever Jade Raymond is doing" my god, this is the ultimate "bitch eating crackers" right here.

I just wanna say how delicious it is to see fanboys struggling to maintain this whole narrative, even when history is telling them shit ain't happening as they dream it will.

I'm not struggling, but I am calling things early. I also called the Xbox 360 decline years before that was agreed upon during their peak 360 years. I got a 360 at launch basically and saw a strong lineup of games, and smart decisions. Then towards the end they shifted their E3 presentations away from things I enjoyed, raised the price of Live, and started closing studios.

I got a PS3 after that first horrible Xbox E3 because the price had finally come down, Sony was marketing well and speaking to fans clearly in a way that built trust, and they just started PS+ free games - which felt like a huge bargain and value.

Now after this E3, Sony skipped it entirely. They've made some questionable decisions on pricing. They closed Japan Studio. They're not speaking to fans effectively or in a way that builds trust. It honestly feels like a repeat of what I saw before, but to a lesser extent - since Sony still has a great system and great studios.

As I said in my post, these flaws can be exaggerated. But I'm not going to pretend they don't exist. It's really noticeable that some things have changed after Layden left. If that triggers you, then by all means - get triggered.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Most of the first party games they announced last year are already out. Forbidden West will be out in the first year of the PS5. All thats left will be GoW and GT7 which will be out next year, so year 2 at the latest.

I think you need to stfu.

.02$ was deposited in your account loyal warrior.

Horizon Forbidden West wasn't announced with a CG trailer. You are literally using incorrect information in your arguments.

 

[AJUMP23]

Their messaging is unconvincing to me.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

God of war was shown to the world in E3 2016 not 2015.

My bad 2016 my point still stands CG trailers were an industry standard since the 7th gen and will be more so in 2021-2022 because of the pandemic.

 

[SSfox]

They're fine, but they heavily need 2 or 3 other big Japenese Studios.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Demon's Souls remake, Ratchet and Clank, Returnal, Sackboy, Miles Morales and Destruction All-Stars at the same time and guess what, they have all been released....

All of these were in development BEFORE the pandemic hit, are people seriously missing the fucking point of my original post? Covid-19 will effect any and all games that started development in late 2019/2020 and beyond until a true cure is found.

 

[Heisenberg007]

.02$ was deposited in your account loyal warrior.

lmao, you think that is a CGI trailer?

Surprise. It's not a CGI trailer. That's an in-engine trailer, running on the PS5 and captured directly from it, as explicitly confirmed by Sony as well as analysts like Digital Foundry.

You gotta hand it to Sony that their games are so good you thought it was CGI.

 

[Derktron]

Right now Sony is doing just fine, the same goes for the other companies. Gaming is never been so good. Why are we getting these posts?

Edit but I do think they have some issues though

 

[SlimySnake]

No offense, but the OP's framing is way worse than any of Sony's messaging. I saw absolutely no points or arguments in the OP. You just mentioned that there is a Sony defense force and then asked everyone to watch a 3 hour podcast without any timestamps.

What's worse is that you made zero arguments yourself. Why is Sony's messaging so bad? Cite examples. What would you like them to do differently? Cite more examples.

And what does messaging have to do with the State of Playstation?

I'd suggest you ask the mods to lock this thread and then create a new one with better arguments.

 

[Derktron]

Their business seems fine and healthy
Their state looks fine

But do I think their communications have been nothing short of shit in the last few years? Yes

Their ‘’too cool for the industry’’ approach reminds me old Nintendo from the 90’s, which isn’t great at all (and one of the main reason I went with the competition, along with being more interested in games from the competition)

I have to admit this is true, Sony is acting too cocky for their own good and in the end, it will hurt them even more. Nintendo had this issue for decades.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

lmao, you think that is a CGI trailer?

Surprise. It's not a CGI trailer. That's an in-engine trailer, running on the PS5 and captured directly from it, as explicitly confirmed by Sony as well as analysts like Digital Foundry.

Ah yes the "in engine" trailer BS again, a CG trailer is a trailer that doesn't show any actual gameplay, a cutscene in other words, a montage of the protagonist talking over unrelated scenes that won't show in the actual game.

The gameplay trailer that showed actual in game shit was released a couple of months ago, if they showed that in 2020 you'd have a point.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

The state of Playstation is great. Despite not having enough PS5 consoles easily available right now, they are all selling out, and the demand for the console is huge with no real signs of slowing down anytime soon.

Not being at E3 sucked, and their recent State of Play wasn't that great at all, so i'm sure that means they have plenty of big titles in the cooker that they aren't ready to show, or will show soon in another State of Play soon (the rumored August one).

 

[hemo memo]

My original point was to expect a lot of CG trailers because of the pandemic effect on production, and the guy simply replied with the usual console wars BS, let's not forget Horizon Forbidden West was announced with a CG trailer in late 2020 and won't be out until 2022, GOW Ragnarok was a logo reveal and won't be out any time soon either by the looks of it, so drop the fan boy BS and realize this is an industry wide situation not just PlayStation or Xbox.

Playstation mismanagement and fuck ups started before Covid. Covid was a fantastic excuse for Playstation to cry “covid covid” while making records profits. At least Microsoft didn’t increase the price of games or lied about how they believe in generations or putting transferring fucking console save files behind a paid service or sell game upgrades.. should I go on? It a long list of stupid decisions.

 

[KiNeMz]

Will see in a couple of months eh

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Playstation mismanagement and fuck ups started before Covid. Covid was a fantastic excuse for Playstation to cry “covid covid” while making records profits. At least Microsoft didn’t increase the price of games or lied about how they believe in generations or putting transferring fucking console save files behind a paid service or sell game upgrades.. should I go on? It a long list of stupid decisions.

I wouldn't call cross gen games a mismanagement it's simply is a byproduct of the pandemic and the scarcity of the PS5 (again due to the pandemic), case in point the sudden surge of sales of Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart and Miles Morales in the UK by more than 100% is due to new PS5 consoles released in the country.

These games cost over 100M to make and market you'd be stupid and a shit CEO if you know the attachment rate of these games on the popular PS4 was under 25%,so in theory there's 10m PS5 owners and if only 25% (2.5M) of them bought HFW that's a loss, while having it also on PS4 you could sell 8M+, it's simply business.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Ah yes the "in engine" trailer BS again, a CG trailer is a trailer that doesn't show any actual gameplay, a cutscene in other words, a montage of the protagonist talking over unrelated scenes that won't show in the actual game.

The gameplay trailer that showed actual in game shit was released a couple of months ago, if they showed that in 2020 you'd have a point.

1. That's your arbitrary definition. An in-engine trailer running directly on a console is literally not a CGI trailer, e.g., Redfall's was a CGI trailer that wasn't running on a console at all, because it had nothing to do with the game.

2. That trailer showed multiple moments of gameplay. For example:

It is now confirmed that at least these three frames were gameplay. Interestingly, it also says that "Captured on PS5" directly on it.

 

[HTK]

Is this thread good or bad?

A) Good
B) Bad

 

[TGO]

You have to be one lonely muthafucker to watch that video all the way through.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

1. That's your arbitrary definition. An in-engine trailer running directly on a console is literally not a CGI trailer, e.g., Redfall's was a CGI trailer that wasn't running on a console at all, because it had nothing to do with the game.

2. That trailer showed multiple moments of gameplay. For example:

It is now confirmed that at least these three frames were gameplay. Interestingly, it also says that "Captured on PS5" directly on it.

Ok you do you buddy.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

.02$ was deposited in your account loyal warrior.

Denying reality is just what i'd expect from you disgusting weebs

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Denying reality is just what i'd expect from you disgusting weebs