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[Hari Seldon]

To save my brain sanity i still think that diverse hiring instead of talent hiring is still a rare thing and majority of companies actually want to make money with the best team possible.

This is how it goes at tech companies based on pure observation and anecdotal evidence. By tech companies I mean FANG not startups. The actual engineers (CS, EE, MEs) are 80% dudes, 50% of these dudes are Asian (by Asian I mean mostly Indian). (Aside: Your average Indian engineer who busted their ass getting here from India is right wing as fuck but highly skilled at keeping it on the DL lmao). Of the 20% of chick engineers, 90% of the chicks are Asian chicks. It does depend on what type of engineer. EE's are basically no chicks at all, CS maybe a little, ME is slightly higher for some reason. Again this is purely anecdotal observation as they don't give actual stat breakdowns for obvious reasons.

Now these stats are horrible to women, but the big FANG companies are all super liberal so they then pad the fuck out of the stats. 90% of legal and HR are white chicks or American Asian chicks with the last 10% being pronoun people. IT is also filled with pronoun people and chicks. TPMs are like 50/50, dudes to female, mostly competent experienced people but this is generally where they hide the Moms as TPMs are never in the critical path for anything.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

This is how it goes at tech companies based on pure observation and anecdotal evidence. By tech companies I mean FANG not startups. The actual engineers (CS, EE, MEs) are 80% dudes, 50% of these dudes are Asian (by Asian I mean mostly Indian). (Aside: Your average Indian engineer who busted their ass getting here from India is right wing as fuck but highly skilled at keeping it on the DL lmao). Of the 20% of chick engineers, 90% of the chicks are Asian chicks. It does depend on what type of engineer. EE's are basically no chicks at all, CS maybe a little, ME is slightly higher for some reason. Again this is purely anecdotal observation as they don't give actual stat breakdowns for obvious reasons.

Now these stats are horrible to women, but the big FANG companies are all super liberal so they then pad the fuck out of the stats. 90% of legal and HR are white chicks or American Asian chicks with the last 10% being pronoun people. IT is also filled with pronoun people and chicks. TPMs are like 50/50, dudes to female, mostly competent experienced people but this is generally where they hide the Mom's as TPMs are never in the critical path for anything.

Yep, it's actually pretty discriminatory in the other direction. On the engineering side they can't hire people that don't exist, so they 'compensate' by running up the numbers in areas where they can.

It's been a minute since I went to college, but my comp sci program had 2 women. One Chinese, one Indian. And those foreign students were very insular groups. Literally every (American) dude in that program was unhappy that there were no women to interact with in the majority of our classes. It wasn't a discriminatory boys club that ran every girl out of the program in the first semester.

And if you have such a low percentage of women learning what really is the foundational knowledge of the video game industry you really can't fix it by just 'equity' in hiring. Sausage in, sausage out.

If you want to change it, gotta start a lot fucking earlier than that.

For all this YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE ENOUGH WOMYN bullshit on Twitter you know what I never see tweeted?

 

[MrFunSocks]

You can achieve diversity of background with same skin colored individuals.

Thinking otherwise is more racist than people having only white dudes in their studios.

You don't need to be black or yellow to suffer poverty, fighting struggles in life or just having different taste\ideas.

The narrative that a black guy must have a different background then a white guy just because he is black, is moronic to even say at loud.

At my work, in my team of devs and QAs over the years, we have had people from:

Australia
Canada
America
England
Ireland
South Africa
New Zealand
Poland
Russia

Pretty diverse, right? All of them were white. Does that mean that there in fact wasn't any diversity? We might have had a gay or bi person in there, who knows, because we don't care about that.

 

[Hunnybun]

How does he know they're not gay? or that there is no trans guy in there? Should they be forced out of the closet so that Jason is more happy? Or should they be forced to dress/pose in a "gayer" way to make it obvious? (assuming there are).

JASON: I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FLAAAAAMING!!

 

[Hari Seldon]

Yep, it's actually pretty discriminatory in the other direction. On the engineering side they can't hire people that don't exist, so they 'compensate' by running up the numbers in areas where they can.

The other thing that these "industry people" like Schrieier do not take into account is that a video game startup studio is not going to attract female engineering talent. Not for any "sexist" reason, but because a video game startup is not going to be able to match salary, benefits, flexibility, etc. of a FANG company. So you have to *really* want to work at a video game company to give up salary and work more hours for an uncertain outcome.

 

[CGiRanger]

He doesnt give up

This thread with Mitch Dyer is another utterly infuriating example of the childish unprofessionalism of the "game press" on social media. And another reflection of their utterly shite ideals and woke bullshit laid bare without shame. No answer he could give would satisfy this yellow journalist, and he'd twist it no mater what to reflect negatively on the studio. These people are purveyors of so much bile in the industry that it's incredible how few people seem to notice when it's again just right out there in the open for all to see.

Again, this is a fucking startup, with limited resources and money. They had to pull together from friends and colleagues they knew and probably were working with reduced salaries to get things done. They didn't have the ability to do a mass "diversity hire" spiel like the mega publishers can claim to do (usually by padding their numbers with DEI people, not any actual "developers"). These "journalists" should be asking the women in their replies if they'd accept lower salary and benefits to work on a small passion project and let's see what the answers are...

 

[ANDS]

I'd raise an eyebrow is that studio was a jury of my peers, but we're talking vidya games here. And there's no reason to drag the man on his looks or go after his wife when his initial argument is so bad: he admits that he hired someone because they were good at their job first and foremost.

 

[supernova8]

Pretty diverse, right? All of them were white. Does that mean that there in fact wasn't any diversity? We might have had a gay or bi person in there, who knows, because we don't care about that.

Exactly! That's how it should fucking be.

 

[supernova8]

This thread with Mitch Dyer is another utterly infuriating example of the childish unprofessionalism of the "game press" on social media. And another reflection of their utterly shite ideals and woke bullshit laid bare without shame. No answer he could give would satisfy this yellow journalist, and he'd twist it no mater what to reflect negatively on the studio. These people are purveyors of so much bile in the industry that it's incredible how few people seem to notice when it's again just right out there in the open for all to see.

Again, this is a fucking startup, with limited resources and money. They had to pull together from friends and colleagues they knew and probably were working with reduced salaries to get things done. They didn't have the ability to do a mass "diversity hire" spiel like the mega publishers can claim to do (usually by padding their numbers with DEI people, not any actual "developers"). These "journalists" should be asking the women in their replies if they'd accept lower salary and benefits to work on a small passion project and let's see what the answers are...

Alex: "Yeah actually our producer is female"
Mitch: "SILENCE, FOOL!"
Alex: "I don't get it."
Mitch: "WHERE ARE ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE IN YOUR COMPANY?!"
Alex: "Actually yeah we had a two applications, one from a black guy, one from a black girl, but it just so happened they were both low level candidates, we couldn't take them further but we'd be delighted to talk to them again when they have more experience and skills."
Mitch: "AHA! I KNEW IT! FUCKING RACIST SCUMBAG!"
Alex: "Oh sorry I forgot. One our animators, Derek, he's African American."
Mitch: "JUST ONE?! HOW FUCKING FUCKETY FUCK FUCK FUCKING DARE YOU! WHAT ARE DEREK'S PRONOUNS!"
Alex: "Never asked him but I guess... he/him...?"
Mitch: "OH YES LOOK AT THAT. BUNCH OF CISGENDER BIGOT FFFFFFFFFFFFUCKS!"

Ok fine only the first two lines actually (paraphrased) happened, but this is how it will go. This is how it always goes.

 

[Fake]

Twitter was a giant fucking mistake.

I guess social media in general.

 

[OrtizTwelve]

Gotta love how he also pats himself on the back for "adding a woman" back in his podcast days. Narcissistic to the core. I love how he'll of course ignore pointing out that "how can a game be good with no diversity!?". When of course games of the past (and current) that come from Japan are all made by 99% Japanese devs.

EDIT: Adding in more information on the game devs themselves "Raccoon Logic" (former Typhoon Studio devs from Google/Stadia) with this article here: https://gamasutra.com/view/news/386...d_secure_Savage_Planet_rights_from_Google.php


You'd think a journo like Schrier would be more interested in a team starting out with the intent of avoiding the dreaded crunch times or mandated work. But nope.

Only abnormal or mentally sick people look at a photo like that and come to absurd conclusions and ridiculous analysis. Of course in 2021 where idiots on Twitter like to parade their virtue in public, it is expected.

Nobody normal views that photo and goes off on a rant about intellectual nonsense.

I saw the photo, don’t really care or paid much attention to it. Who cares?

What if it was a picture of all Asians? Or blacks? Or Indians? Would it still be “atrocious” for the lack of “diversity” ?

The whole woke movement is so absurd that it’s laughable to sane people.

 

[GymWolf]

Can someone with a Twitter account ask Schreier who gave him the permission for cyberbullying and inciting others to do so? Because that's what his effectively doing. I would love to see his response on the subject, seeing how "concerned" he is how people in the industry are being treated in his articles, while being an oppressor himself. Seems like a hypocrite to me.

Lol do you think he would respond to such a good question?!

He is a spineless cunt who only want digital pats on his back.

 

[MrFunSocks]

I thought this was quite ironic:



Dude needs to look in a mirror to find the problem.

Wait am I allowed to say "dude" anymore or is that considered a "gendered insult" or some other woke term?

 

[22•22]

They should sue him.

 

[DispatchNinja]

99% of the time I see someone complaining about white people on Twitter, it’s coming from a white person.

 

[NickFire]

He gives me the impression of someone who would throw lit matches at people and complain to the manufacturer that one of them burned him.

 

[MiguelItUp]

This kind of shameless pandering should be embarrassing

No shit, I'm tired of this talentless schmuck.

What happened to the whole, "if you want more ______ there, then there needs to be more ______ interested, experienced, and available in the industry."

You can't just conjure experienced women to join the team, they have to exist, be what they're looking for, and be available. Lmao.

99% of the time I see someone complaining about white people on Twitter, it’s coming from a white person.

Yuuuuuup. Interesting how that always works.

 

[GymWolf]

I thought this was quite ironic:



Dude needs to look in a mirror to find the problem.

Wait am I allowed to say "dude" anymore or is that considered a "gendered insult" or some other woke term?

It absolutely is, i saw a dude on reeee going crazy because another guy called him dude during a friendly debate...

 

[Pejo]

Just thinking about this again makes me mad. These dudes go through all of the trials and tribulations of starting a new business, new gaming studio (which is far from guaranteed success), and before they even have any info on their first game they have to defend themselves from being racists because some fucking asswipe on Twitter sicced his goons on them. I wouldn't wish that kind of shit on anybody, and can only hope that karma is real for Schreier. He better live squeaky clean for the rest of his damn life.

 

[nerdface]

I love how 'freedom' is always juxtaposed against morality. It's a fallacy that you can have one without the other, but you try. I think cause it's easier to shit out your mouth, than put in the effort.


ya'll don't want to be assholes, you just want the freedom to be one if you 'choose'


...rofl, right? look how many of you are butthurt over the idea of hiring brown people... just admit it

 

[Pejo]

I love how 'freedom' is always juxtaposed against morality. It's a fallacy that you can have one without the other, but you try. I think cause it's easier to shit out your mouth, than put in the effort.


ya'll don't want to be assholes, you just want the freedom to be one if you 'choose'


...rofl, right? look how many of you are butthurt over the idea of hiring brown people... just admit it

This is an awful take and you should feel bad for posting it.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

I love how 'freedom' is always juxtaposed against morality. It's a fallacy that you can have one without the other, but you try. I think cause it's easier to shit out your mouth, than put in the effort.


ya'll don't want to be assholes, you just want the freedom to be one if you 'choose'


...rofl, right? look how many of you are butthurt over the idea of hiring brown people... just admit it

You're a cunt

 

[nerdface]

This is an awful take and you should feel bad for posting it.

classic ad hominem...am I wrong? use your words...



DONT WORRY FELLAS, he's only talking about diversity... it's not like it's actually happening

You're a cunt

rofl, jesus christ on a cracker... put a little love in your heart, brother


we're all humans!

 

[Papacheeks]

classic ad hominem...am I wrong? use your words...



DONT WORRY FELLAS, he's only talking about diversity... it's not like it's actually happening




rofl, jesus christ on a cracker... put a little love in your heart, brother


we're all humans!

You should watch Jaff'e take on this. You hire people based on their skill, and resume if they can do the job. Having be pressure to hire people based on a bunch of check boxes that you are forced to meet never works out, nor is it being honest to anyone who can do the job regardless of race, gender or whatever.

Jason took one look at a pic of a studio that was already another studio that had people come over from defunct studio and a lot of people currently not being paid. Also did Jason reach out to the woman that is on that team but is on leave because of covid?
Did Jason ask if they interviewed people since legally they have to post job listings?

Also as a reporter calling people out on twitter is something you should never do if you want to keep integrity. CNN reporters out in Syria or in the middle east are not getting on twitter and calling out Afghanistan military why they dont hire more women, or people of other religious/ethnic backgrounds?
It's not something a reporter is suppose to do. I work at a News Station, none of the reporters do that. Your job is to report the information without any kind of opinion, neutral. You are suppose to report information as it comes, as it is presented for the people to make their own decisions on.

I'm not saying there isn't a discrepancy with diversity in the game industry. But the better way to do this is at panels, interviews for articles where we can get a back and forth. Not blasting someone and their studio and dog piling because its the easier/lazier thing to do.

 

[Halo is Back]

I love how 'freedom' is always juxtaposed against morality. It's a fallacy that you can have one without the other, but you try. I think cause it's easier to shit out your mouth, than put in the effort.


ya'll don't want to be assholes, you just want the freedom to be one if you 'choose'


...rofl, right? look how many of you are butthurt over the idea of hiring brown people... just admit it

You're entirely missing the point here. There is nothing wrong with hiring women or people of color, that is some seriously pathetic strawman argument. The issue here is that this ass hat is trying to shame a newly developed game studio for being all white and male. Actually, their producer is a woman but let's conveniently leave that detail out for the Twitter mob.

They haven't even made a fucking game yet or made a racist tweet. They are being judged and harassed for simply existing as a studio. Who is to say they won't hire women or black people in the future?

 

[nerdface]

You should watch Jaff'e take on this. You hire people based on their skill, and resume if they can do the job. Having be pressure to hire people based on a bunch of check boxes that you are forced to meet never works out, nor is it being honest to anyone who can do the job regardless of race, gender or whatever.

Jason took one look at a pic of a studio that was already another studio that had people come over from defunct studio and a lot of people currently not being paid. Also did Jason reach out to the woman that is on that team but is on leave because of covid?

Did Jason ask if they interviewed people since legally they have to post job listings?

Also as a reporter calling people out on twitter is something you should never do if you want to keep integrity. CNN reporters out in Syria or in the middle east are not getting on twitter and calling out Afghanistan military why they dont hire more women, or people of other religious/ethnic backgrounds?

It's not something a reporter is suppose to do. I work at a News Station, none of the reporters do that. Your job is to report the information without any kind of opinion, neutral. You are suppose to report information as it comes, as it is presented for the people to make their own decisions on.

systemic problems are how people become qualified, because of prior hiring practices, and access to education and training

this is an age old racist argument you're trying to make, but it's ok now because we're talking about computer programmers, and artists instead of firemen.

somehow, I'm sure the 'liberal media' is at fault?... I'm trying to throw you a rope, bro, cause someone fell down a rabbit hole... limbaugh is dead, bro

 

[nerdface]

You're entirely missing the point here. There is nothing wrong with hiring women or people of color, that is some seriously pathetic strawman argument. The issue here is that this ass hat is trying to shame a newly developed game studio for being all white and male. Actually, their producer is a woman but let's conveniently leave that detail out for the Twitter mob.

They haven't even made a fucking game yet or made a racist tweet. They are being judged and harassed for simply existing as a studio. Who is to say they won't hire women or black people in the future?

So it's harrasment when you disagree, not freedom of speech?

huh

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yep, it's actually pretty discriminatory in the other direction. On the engineering side they can't hire people that don't exist, so they 'compensate' by running up the numbers in areas where they can.

It's been a minute since I went to college, but my comp sci program had 2 women. One Chinese, one Indian. And those foreign students were very insular groups. Literally every (American) dude in that program was unhappy that there were no women to interact with in the majority of our classes. It wasn't a discriminatory boys club that ran every girl out of the program in the first semester.

And if you have such a low percentage of women learning what really is the foundational knowledge of the video game industry you really can't fix it by just 'equity' in hiring. Sausage in, sausage out.

If you want to change it, gotta start a lot fucking earlier than that.

For all this YOU DIDN'T INCLUDE ENOUGH WOMYN bullshit on Twitter you know what I never see tweeted?

And school programs like that have always skewed male. Women just hate certain fields. If it's too techie, too dirty or too dangerous, they avoid it. Guys will do anything from hard dirty construction in the summer heat to rappelling off office buildings to wash windows to smelling crud all day being a garbageman. Women trend to safe white collar desk jobs or service jobs like restaurants and working at the mall. Anything that isnt too technical.

Go back farther in time and it's worse.

My dad has an engineering degree from like the 70s. He showed us his yearbook. He showed us some kind of university yearbook. I dont know if it was only engineering or maybe broad science grads in there too, not sure. But he laughed when he showed it to us and I remember skimming along.

1 female in the whole book of grad pictures.

 

[martino]

inspector gaf is that legit ?

 

[Pejo]

classic ad hominem...am I wrong? use your words...



DONT WORRY FELLAS, he's only talking about diversity... it's not like it's actually happening




rofl, jesus christ on a cracker... put a little love in your heart, brother


we're all humans!

I mean, you're literally insinuating that all of GAF is also racist, you and Jason should just be friends or twitter buddies or something.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

All people need to do, is simply not engage and then sue for defamation. Giving any kind of response is all these types desire so it can in turn be used against the target of their lazy smear tactic.
There is literally no upshot to providing any detail or response, and it's trending from harassment to extortion-lite. An artists work will sell or it won't, the market can decide - and a creative type will never flourish if their vision is compromised by talentless internet trolls with a twitter account.

 

[Halo is Back]

So it's harrasment when you disagree, not freedom of speech?

huh

They have to defend themselves from being called a systemically racist and misogynist company for simply existing so yea that sounds dangerously close to harassment to me.

Freedom of speech laws mainly protects you from persecution of the government. Do you really want to go down this raod? Why are you even bringing this up?

 

[nerdface]

I mean, you're literally insinuating that all of GAF is also racist, you and Jason should just be friends or twitter buddies or something.

yeah, I'm still not seeing a counter-argument


sounds like you're the one that doesn't think there's a reasonable pov to defend... better attack then

 

[Papacheeks]

systemic problems are how people become qualified, because of prior hiring practices, and access to education and training

this is an age old racist argument you're trying to make, but it's ok now because we're talking about computer programmers, and artists instead of firemen.

somehow, I'm sure the 'liberal media' is at fault?... I'm trying to throw you a rope, bro, cause someone fell down a rabbit hole... limbaugh is dead, bro

So it's systemic problems that video games were mostly a guy thing in the 70's, 80's, 90's, early 2000's? Wasn't until games expanded in different genre's that interest from other demographics expanded. You have revision history syndrome. Why not ask people that literally worked during those times like cory barlog, jaffe?

If your industry like video games is small in terms of the people who play it and its accessibility back in the early days, do you think the demographic for people interested in working in that field is large?
There are lots of studio with diversity in them now, this is an instance of current small studio that was founded by this group taking a pic, and because they happen to be all white and male not including the woman who is on leave, the internet shits on them.

No one asked if they had taken other applications, no one asked or reached out to the woman on leave who is one of the main producers.
You seriously need to just do some research, and I mean that in talk to people who literally worked in this field through the different ages. Mitch Dyer is weird coming from a white guy who writes for Video game company's, comes off hypocritical.

 

[Guardian's Light]

Gotta love how he also pats himself on the back for "adding a woman" back in his podcast days. Narcissistic to the core. I love how he'll of course ignore pointing out that "how can a game be good with no diversity!?". When of course games of the past (and current) that come from Japan are all made by 99% Japanese devs.

EDIT: Adding in more information on the game devs themselves "Raccoon Logic" (former Typhoon Studio devs from Google/Stadia) with this article here: https://gamasutra.com/view/news/386...d_secure_Savage_Planet_rights_from_Google.php


You'd think a journo like Schrier would be more interested in a team starting out with the intent of avoiding the dreaded crunch times or mandated work. But nope.

Still surprised people give importance to this idiot

Basically a dude who maybe's lucky or right thanks to sources one time out of ten about predictions, and for the other nine just do the vulture about other people's information corpses

 

[Pejo]

yeah, I'm still not seeing a counter-argument


sounds like you're the one that doesn't think there's a reasonable pov to defend... better attack then

I'm not going to stoop down to your obvious baiting, but I will say that I don't believe there is anything racist whatsoever about hiring based on merit and availability. I also don't believe that it's an employers job to force POC/Women to apply for their jobs.

 

[Papacheeks]

I'm not going to stoop down to your obvious baiting, but I will say that I don't believe there is anything racist whatsoever about hiring based on merit and availability. I also don't believe that it's an employers job to force POC/Women to apply for their jobs.

Seriously posting jaffe's take on this:

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Twitter rewards female toxicity.
Jason Shreier is female toxicity personified.




Jason Shreier about to cancel Theodore Roosevelt next...

Additionally...I may be participating in female toxicity with this post.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I thought this was quite ironic:



Dude needs to look in a mirror to find the problem.

Wait am I allowed to say "dude" anymore or is that considered a "gendered insult" or some other woke term?

What's great is that he probably DID get hundreds of PMs about this, but he's cherry picking the ones that inform his narrative. No one on here has even mentioned his religious affiliation, I didn't even know about it, myself, and we all still think a shit take is a shit take. There's your equality, is it everything you ever wanted? Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Jewish, Christian, a shitpiece is a shitpiece and we'll call it out, ya' know, for diversity's sake.

 

[Pallas]

Not sure if already posted(I’m not reading every post) but that studio does have a female employee if you check their website out.

 

[Graciaus]

When you actually care more about having fun in games instead of the politics around them you might understand "all that matters is game quality"

 

[Derktron]

Resetera is probably praising him for doing this.

 

[SlimySnake]

He doesnt give up

MItch, shut the fuck up.

 

[hemo memo]

So he just assumed the gender of all those people? All we know maybe 3 or more women in the picture. Cancel Jason.

 

[JoeBudden]

He's clearly pandering to twitter feminists. Otherwise, why stop at women? Does he think all men are white men? Why not include people from different backgrounds and cultures?

 

[Halo is Back]

Not sure if already posted(I’m not reading every post) but that studio does have a female employee if you check their website out.

If there is any reason to hate on Jason as a "journalist" it's this right here folks. This ass clown was so high and mighty on his own self-righteous image he couldn’t even do the most basic research to see that one of the fucking producers is FEMALE! Instead, he was content to riling up the Twitter mob based on ONE damn picture.

 

[Derktron]

As a Latino, I find his assumptions pathetic because you don't hire someone based on sex or race or just because. Don't you hire someone to do such a thing in an industry like gaming based on skills and experience? Because keep in mind I'm in college trying to get internships at companies like EA and Nintendo and 9/10 they hire people based on skills not based on sex or skin color. You hire people based on the skills they have or might have that might serve the company. This man is pathetic and I'm so glad I'm banned from Twitter.

 

[Papacheeks]

If there is any reason to hate on Jason as a "journalist" it's this right here folks. This ass clown was so high and mighty on his own self-righteous image he couldn’t even do the most basic research to see that one of the fuking CO-FOUNDERS is FEMALE! Instead, he was content to riling up the Twitter mob based on ONE damn picture.

Shes not a co-founder. She's a producer.

 

[Azurro]

we're all humans!

From a brown latino guy...tone it down with the edgy ridiculous takes. Nobody wants to be gifted anything and no one is grateful to you for your woke (aka racist) takes.

 

[Halo is Back]

Shes not a co-founder. She's a producer.

My bad! I just woke up lol. The point still stands though.