• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

XSX/PS5 Pro?

FMX

Member
https://www.truetrophies.com/n19956/ps5-pro-moores-law-is-dead-interview

"My understanding is that Sony rules with an iron fist with their partners and they can be — this will surprise nobody — arrogant sometimes," Tom says. Throughout our interview, it is clear that secrecy is the crux of Sony's PlayStation operations. "Sony values secrecy more than Microsoft, or — at the very least — they act like they care more." That can make it very hard to get exact details out of the factories and offices where the products are made and designed, but it does give us plenty more to discuss. Please, bear in mind that Tom stresses that much of these details are applicable to the "Xbox Series X 2023 Edition. This isn't me hyping up PlayStation — Xbox is [also] working on a refresh."

Man they have got to be joking. Most of the folks who want these systems today can't get one. So if these rumors are true we are looking at 2023 when we are not really going to get fully realized next gen games until 2022. What do you guys think ---could they be referring to redesigns of the current systems to make them smaller/cheaper or full on upgrades?
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Its no joke the more powerful refreshes are coming

shut up and take my money GIF by Product Hunt
 
Last edited:
They'll both probably do it and there's a much greater need to do so from Sony to keep PlayStation faithful in their ecosystem.

What I find interesting about a potential mid cycle upgrade is the possibility that the performance jump could be huge. 3-D stacking and multi-chip modules could allow for big time gains mid cycle. Not to mention DLSS like dedicated hardware.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
An upgrade would be much needed, if we want to play something like Starfield at 60fps / 4K .
If you believe some of the rumors its one thing Todd wanted for Starfield a more powerful Xbox to launch when the game does

Since their games are so greatly optimized and all its going to need all the power that can be thrown its way

And I dont expect either the game nor the refreshes until 2023 btw
 
Last edited:

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I was kinda hoping there would be no PRO consoles this time... Feels pointless and against the console lifestyle of "buy and forget".
And these consoles are really powerful and "hot"
 
Last edited:

Rykan

Member
I don't think there is going to be a mid gen refresh this generation. I know that a lot of people assume there will be because there was one previous gen, but that was still the exception rather than the rule for home consoles.
Here is why I don't think there will be one:

- There's no marketing hook. Both the PS4 Pro and XoneX were sold with the promise that they would deliver 4k gaming. Now whether they actually achieved this is up for debate, but the PS5 and XSX already claim to support 4k gaming. So what's the marketing hook going to be? There's no resolution bump, games already run at a solid framerate.

- PS4 Pro and X one X continued to be outsold by the standard models after they came out. Most consumers still went for the cheaper options

- You make you the people who won't upgrade feel like 2nd rate customers because they're getting a lesser experience. One of the benefits of buying a game on a console is knowing that you're, more or less, playing the best version of the game outside of playing it on a higher end gaming PC.

I don't think we'll see another upgrade. We will probably see a redesign of both consoles, especially of the PS5.
 

elliot5

Member
if the PS5 Pro comes with a redesign thats smaller than the stock PS5 that would be even more gravy. I'd buy that day 1
 

Fbh

Member
Wouldn't be too surprising.
A lot of cross gen games are already dropping to 1440 with some other visual compromises to keep up the 60fps. As the gen moves on and we get more ambitious next gen only games I think we're going to need more powerful console to not go back to 1080p in order to keep the 60fps modes
 

Azurro

Banned
It depends on the fabrication nodes and economics. If Sony wants to bring down the price of the PS5 but still wants a machine to hit the $500 price point, it might happen. Or it could also happen with bigger SSDs, let's see what happens.

Something that I do see a change in, is that companies realized that their hardcore userbase are more than willing to pay for a Pro model and that if they don't introducing one, those customers could get lured to buying a PC, since generations are quite long now.
 

Fredrik

Member
I like it, it’s great that they’re aggressive, without Pro models these consoles will feel ancient at the end of the generation.
 
Dunno how to feel about this. I think a 2023 date is way too soon, since 3P devs won't even start leaving 8th-gen behind en-masse until later 2022, so you think they'll be happy to have to start spec'ing for even more powerful Pro editions of the consoles half a year later (if they want to start getting ready for a late 2023 launch for at least one of them)? You'll end up with Pro models basically acting as resolution boxes like the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were, and wasn't it agreed that both systems weren't really leveraged to their fullest because of the need to support their base platforms anyway?

Also what's the motivating factor for mid-gen refreshes, particularly on Sony's side? I can see a factor for Microsoft but that really involves Azure and game streaming that they could just conveniently spin out to a consumer product. I suppose that could be a factor for Sony as well but only if they're planning to seriously ramp up their server networks within the next year or two, although some corporate comments seem to suggest they're going to be more gradual/less aggressive on that front. Would 8K televisions really be enough of a factor at the mass-market level?

Otherwise, I can agree with his point that if the main motivating factor for the customer would be performance, you might as well push hard and double performance and price it at $600/$700. That could be a really good box for PSVR2 in Sony's case, even if the base PS5 has features (like Alt Mode support through USB) for VR built-in that won't require a breakout box. RAM prices aren't necessarily dropping and what power consumption savings they'd get on 5nm (for an RDNA 3 design, which is likely what a PS5 Pro would be if it's launching in 2023, maybe with a few things from RDNA 4 pulled forward) are negated by going with a bigger GPU (whether monolithic or chiplet), and I think they'd want to stay in a certain TDP and package size so all that combined I can't see them doubling RAM bandwidth, but like MLID says they could have some Infinity Cache onboard to offset that, and probably 3D V-Cache for the CPU (16 MB - 32 MB).

I still think it'd be a tough sell tho for $600 (let alone $700) in late 2023, especially if regular PS5s don't seem like they'll be in regular supply until sometime mid-2022 or maybe a little earlier, could alienate some of the customer base. As for Microsoft I still think they will scale down for a Series S refresh (streaming stick or box) and scale up for a Series X refresh (driven mainly by Azure to possibly support 4x Series S instances on one SoC, so at least 16 TF performance, and I suppose Sony would want to aim for that as well but both could easily try going for around 20 TF compute performance), and possibly phase out the Series S in due time or repurpose it for Surface laptop devices in that space.

What I'm more interested in tho is what 10th-gen systems will try going for, because I don't think "more power" is going to cut it anymore, or faster storage, either. We're getting to a point where the hardware is NOT the limiting factor, but rather development cycle times, production costs/budgets and manpower. I hope Microsoft and Sony are looking into developments (such as developments in user-directed AI programming data models for bulk low-level asset creation, innovative software funding models, etc.) to push those forward and look towards standardizing VR (and potentially maybe even AR) support/integration for 10th-gen systems because that's what I think is going to justify the existence of consoles for another generation.

Without that, I think the prospect of another major console generation could genuinely be in doubt.
 

Azurro

Banned
- There's no marketing hook. Both the PS4 Pro and XoneX were sold with the promise that they would deliver 4k gaming. Now whether they actually achieved this is up for debate, but the PS5 and XSX already claim to support 4k gaming. So what's the marketing hook going to be? There's no resolution bump, games already run at a solid framerate.

- PS4 Pro and X one X continued to be outsold by the standard models after they came out. Most consumers still went for the cheaper options

- You make you the people who won't upgrade feel like 2nd rate customers because they're getting a lesser experience. One of the benefits of buying a game on a console is knowing that you're, more or less, playing the best version of the game outside of playing it on a higher end gaming PC.

I don't think we'll see another upgrade. We will probably see a redesign of both consoles, especially of the PS5.

- Marketing hook: PS5 Pro, raytracing edition, that's easy. Anyway, power itself is enough of a hook for the type of audience that would want one.

- PS4 PRO being outsold by PS4. It's not about outselling the original PS5, but about reaching different price points. This way Sony coukd cover the market with a digital PS5 at 299 and a Pro at 599. It would make sense if it keeps the traditional console gamer that also wants power upgrades from migrating to PC.

- 2nd rate customers: irrelevant, people are used to the idea of products having a "standard" version and a "Pro" version.
 
Last edited:
If you believe some of the rumors its one thing Todd wanted for Starfield a more powerful Xbox to launch when the game does

Since their games are so greatly optimized and all its going to need all the power that can be thrown its way

And I dont expect either the game nor the refreshes until 2023 btw

But they've already confirmed Starfield's date for November 2022. Quite blatantly, at that.

There's always the off-chance it could be delayed but I don't see any signs of that happening and also hope that doesn't happen.
 

saintjules

Member
I don't think we are getting Pro consoles this generation no matter how many people are acting like it's inevitable.

Yeah I'm inclined to say the same. Shouldn't these Consoles that are out now be capable of doing a lot? I mean we've still yet to see the true power from these machines especially from a graphical standpoint. No real rush for 'Pro' versions when games aren't reaching that level of high fidelity anyway. I could be wrong though, who knows.
 
Last edited:
It's only a matter of time, especially if we take into consideration that Sony has been flirting with TSMC 6NM for added capacity, I'd imagine that would relieve the strain somewhat on the current model of PS5, maybe then we'd see the PS5-PRO model fabbed on 5NM along with a slim offering. Probably 23' or 24'.
 

yurinka

Member
Bullshit article. They forgot to include Switch Pro there.

P.S.: There's no point on thinking about PS5 Pro or Series X Pro. They can't even find components to build all the ones they would want of the current ones. And the consoles are too expensive to release an even more expensive SKU. On top of that, due the AAA development length and most players still being in previous gen, we'll be getting crossgen games until 2023 or probably 2024.
 
Last edited:

elliot5

Member
Bullshit article.

P.S.: There's no point on thinking about PS5 Pro or Series X Pro. They can't even find components to build all the ones they would want of the current ones. And the consoles are too expensive to release an even more expensive SKU.
lol but these would be coming out years from now when things are likely better production wise..

and as if releasing a more expensive, more powerful model ever hurt any company. NVidia? Apple? AMD? They all price creep and have higher tier models and people gladly pay them.
 

yurinka

Member
and as if releasing a more expensive, more powerful model ever hurt any company. NVidia? Apple? AMD? They all price creep and have higher tier models and people gladly pay them.
Consoles work differently, they try to balance power with price because they target the huge mainstream market unlike the brand new high end PC components, who target a tiny market. And well, consoles is a way smaller market than mobile.
 
Last edited:

junguler

Banned
we more or less knew there were going to be refreshes but it's kind of crazy to start hearing about it now, even if it's just rumors at this point.
i wonder what the name of the new Xboxs is going to be? Xbox Series XL and Xbox Series ES (extra small) is my guess.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Pro versions are a given tbh, although I doubt we'll see anything till 2025 latest, both will want to take advantage of newer faster hardware and get it into the hardcore consumers hands. I'm all for it, 4-5yr shelf life is reasonable for me especially with Sony going all in with PSVR2 a mid gen hardware refresh would definitely benefit VR but MS is the best placed to take advantage of it with their consumer and gamer centric approach to upgrades, Sony will more than likely charge being the tight bastards they are
 

Genx3

Member
Bullshit article. They forgot to include Switch Pro there.

P.S.: There's no point on thinking about PS5 Pro or Series X Pro. They can't even find components to build all the ones they would want of the current ones. And the consoles are too expensive to release an even more expensive SKU. On top of that, due the AAA development length and most players still being in previous gen, we'll be getting crossgen games until 2023 or probably 2024.

That's why the consoles are selling for $800+ by scalpers since the launch of these consoles because a more expensive console sku could not be successful :messenger_smirking:.

I think a lot of people are living in the past.
This is the present and inflation has weakened currency. $500 consoles were too cheap to begin with.
They should've packed as much as they could into a $600 console with the same margins as they are currently making.
The next gen jump would've been more pronounced and every single console would still be out of stock.

As it is now I expect some type of Pro console.
Had they done the $600 box there would've been no need for Pro consoles.
 
Last edited:

skit_data

Member
I stuck with a base PS4 last gen and I will stick with the base PS5.

I don’t even have a 4k TV yet, dammit.

Edit: Btw, some users here claimed the SSD and I/O in the PS5 was ”completely unnecessarily fast and that they should have aimed at a bigger GPU”, well my thoughts was always ”What if they want to make a Pro model? What will they have to ensure really can keep up on the base model compared to a Pro model?”
My guess is that they made sure that the I/O was fast enough that it could scale with a potential Pro model and wouldn’t impact game development for that model and setting a really high ”lowest common denominator” when it comes to the SSD speed.
 
Last edited:

martino

Member
That's why the consoles are selling for $800+ by scalpers since the launch of these consoles because a more expensive console sku could not be successful :messenger_smirking:.

I think a lot of people are living in the past.
This is the present and inflation has weakened currency. $500 consoles were too cheap to begin with.
They should've packed as much as they could into a $600 console with the same margins as they are currently making.
The next gen jump would've been more pronounced and every single console would still be out of stock.

As it is now I expect some type of Pro console.
Had they done the $600 box there would've been no need for Pro consoles.
this launch is clearly teaching us this lesson
i agree too that early buyer are ready for console costing price of a high end phones
 
Last edited:

yurinka

Member
That's why the consoles are selling for $800+ by scalpers since the launch of these consoles because a more expensive console sku could not be successful :messenger_smirking:.
A few hundred scalpers are nothing compared to dozens or hundreds of millions of consoles sold. And them offering that price doesn't mean people buys them at this price.
 
Last edited:

Genx3

Member
I stuck with a base PS4 last gen and I will stick with the base PS5.

I don’t even have a 4k TV yet, dammit.

A quality 4K TV with HDR will bring better image quality than you are currently getting.
Get with the times, if you have PS5 and a 1080P TV without HDR you are doing it wrong.

Do yourself a favor and buy a better TV.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
2023 does seem a bit early and unnecessary for a Pro refresh. I guess that technically makes sense as the middle of a 6 year cycle, but with demand still far outstripping supply, most people who want one still not having one, and the generation barely making a tepid start with true next gen titles, they could give the base consoles another year at least to stretch and deliver more differentiated Pros later.
 
Top Bottom