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[TheMay30thMan]

Don’t care about the ethnicity. It doesn’t even need to be excused, really. The part I hate is her placement in the trailer. Right at the end, with only one line. It felt like the trailer was screaming. “DON’T WORRY! WE HAVE BLACK PEOPLE TOO!” The character doesn’t feel forced, but the announcement sure did.

 

[elliot5]

Im sure everyone wanted to cancel Thor for having a black guy in Norse mythology too, right?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Let's see, if it was really about racist people not wanting black people in videogames, well, we would have this thread for every videogame where there is a black guy. Do we have it? No. Ok, so probably not that.

What is it then?

Well maybe it's that people cares about the lore in their games. If you are setting a game in Norse mythology, by default you'll expect the pantheon to look white. Now of course, this is fantasy, the game creators can do whatever with their game, yes we all know and acknowledge that, yes Kratos is a fictional character they inserted in Greek mythology and now into Norse mythology, yes. But, there's an explanation for that in the previous games, and we buy it. So, instead of tweetting bs and calling people racist, I think it would be better if you go ahead and tell your audience that cares about your game, your lore and your franchise, why is this, how this character ended up here, maybe comes from another mythology just like Kratos, maybe whatever, you are the writer, if your story is decent maybe people will buy it (or at least say there will be one). Otherwise, people sees this and rolls their eyes because it just looks like an empty attempt to pander to the American public with your American view of what diversity is. People are not saying what the hell is this because the character is black, but because a priori it just doesn't fit the setting, in the same way as if I play a game with a 14th century Inca setting and their god looks Russian, even if I'm an Inca boy riding a flying unicorn llama in a fantasy world, the Russian looking god will look kinda out of place in the narrative and the writers better explain why is this.

So the devs need to spoil the story to appease the racist outrage?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think this has less to do with racism, but with Americans imposing yet again their societal problems onto foreign cultural heritages. Why should the Norse pantheon be any more diverse than let's say Wakanda or African mythology?

These tales came from a time before globalism and multiculturalism and are an intrinsic part of the common ancestry and traditions of different ethnic groups. As such, they are somewhat sacrosanct and should certainly not be abused for mere tokenism, virtue signaling and political messaging. Folklore transcends politics as it lets people identify with each other across partisan lines and should never be politicized like that. I am fine that these stories are updated to fit modern standards, but one should always be aware that doing so is a delicate task.

Changing the mere skin color of a mythological character for diversity's sake would imply that said mythology is deeply flawed and not diverse enough, when Norse mythology is brimming with so many different personalities and worldviews. What value does adding a skin color to these stories create? Does it enrich that particular mythology in any way? Not really, all it does is poison these timeless tales with trendy societal issues from the USA because that country is absolutely obsessed with race. Non-Americans are frikkin' tired of all this race bullcrap that amounts to absolutely f*ck all, except more division, unnecessary labels and stereotyped thinking.

It is such an americocentric perspective that many people from outside can only shake their heads at it in disbelief, but then to be also labeled a "racist" for simply refusing to let such narrow-minded hot button issues subvert one's cultural heritage that has nothing to do with America's current issues is simply beyond stupid. What's racist is thinking that the whole world is the same as America and that everybody else should view the world as Americans do and also share in their flimsy soup-du-jour moral principles that get dictated by their entertainment industry and social media.

Everybody in this thread, no matter which side they stand on concerning this controversy, have played many many games with protagonists from different ethical groups and cultural backgrounds. I'm sure all of us have played and enjoyed games with black/white/whatever protagonists and nobody had even the slightest issue with it. Simply dehumanizing the "other side" by lazily labeling them with all sorts of horrible things because you refuse to engage with them in an honest manner is exactly what racists would do.

You got to remember that liberals and shaming are in force in the US, and the country has a history of slavery and segregation even as recent as I think the 50-60s (Rosa Parks bus incident).

You'd think the right thing to do celebrate multiculturalism would be to do some grassroots stories from cultural myths and legends. So a Norse story is about Scandinavians, a Samurai game is about Japan, and something more wide open like Genghis Khan running rampant can butt heads with any culture across Asia and Mid East (how ever far he got).

I didnt play Ghost of Tsushima. Was it all Asians or Japanese chraacters? Were there Whites, Latinos or Black people in it? I highly doubt that ancient Japan was 100% Japanese people. There's got to be some non-Japanese people on that island.

But the fastest way of being guilty, getting brownie points for PR, as well as still being self serving for sales is just inject minorities into whatever story even if its one based on Nords.

But they dont make games based on African culture (which long time ago were actually doing pretty well until wars and overfarming killed their growth) because they fear being nailed with racist comments, laziness, and it probably wont sell as much as your typical game where the hero is a white guy with dark brown hair (the most mainstream dude with money that can be made).

Where is that image someone made 5 or 10 years ago? It was a montage of like 30 of the biggest hits games and almost all of them had a cover shot of a white dude with dark brown hair.

But if you inject some token minorities here and there, you kind of balance out sales, not needing to do too much effort into researching Africa, and you got the modern day brownie point for having a kickass or respected minority role among the cast of characters to give a good image.

 

[Business]

So the devs need to spoil the story to appease the racist outrage?

Racist outrage?

 

[TheMay30thMan]

I won't sugarcoat. If you haven't noticed, there is a trend going around the world at the moment of erasing white people's culture. This specific instance of pandering is only tangentially related (and unimportant on its own), but conforms to the ideological views being taught and pushed in every nook and cranny in our society (white guilt, etc.).

When you see people upset about similar issues, IMO it all stems from this push to erase/replace white people in practically everything. Why is it okay to replace all white people with POC? Why is it not okay to do the opposite? Agendas, agendas. Many are tired/annoyed/upset about it.

That's why whenever you see a new release and they make a point to show their "diversity" people roll their eyes. Companies don't care about diversity, they care about sales. It's just more virtue signaling.

I won’t sugarcoat. God of War is a fictional series where Kratos, a completely made-up person, kills off the entire Greek pantheon, then jumps to the Norse pantheon and starts killing them off too. A black woman in Norse mythology makes more sense than that.

Your argument would only hold value if the series was true to its source from the beginning, but it wasn’t.

 

[bender]

God of War has a story?

 

[Business]

God of War has a story?

It even used to have tits.

 

[VanEs]

I must admit I am not aware of The Expanse, and it's good to know that such a show exists.

It's a good show, doubly so if you like sci-fi.

There just needs to be more genuine diversity obviously.
Then we can do away with this "Tokenism and "Pandering" rhetoric

This whole thing seems like it's a problem that never had to be a problem in the first place as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Danjin44]

God of War has a story?

??? It always had a story, I would say pretty damn good one too. Kratos was absolutely fascinating character even before GOW (2018). In fact Kratos in (2018) wouldn't be as interesting if it wasn't for pervious games.

 

[bender]

Kratos was absolutely fascinating character even before GOW (2018).

 

[ethomaz]

That is interesting, but I'm just really wondering where Fenris, Midgardsormr and Hel are in all of this. I mean, wasn't the wyrm in the first game? Angrboda gave birth to that thing, and it looks like it's been growing for years (it's quite large, even with it's fast growth), while she looks like she's a teenager.

How old was she when she was with Loki? Or is the some everyoung kinda thing?

Probably not the same time line.

In GoW 2018 Fenrir, Jörmungandr and Hel are ported as adults... while Fenrir and Hel are only talked and not showed... Jörmungandr is not just showed as he choose to help Loki without any explainable reason.
More at the end of GoW 2018 it is showed paints of Angrboda taking care of a child Jörmungandr.

The time line of GoW 2018 events are really after Loki and Angrboda relationship that give birth to 3 monsters.
So how Loki can be the father of the monsters that born way before the events of GoW 2018?

I can think in two situations:
1) Loki is very old and just shapeshifted in a kid and the Angrboda showed in GoW: Ragnarok are just his flashbacks... but that doesn't explain how Fárbauti (Kratos) is his father in the actual time line (unless Kratos only adopted him but that goes against the Mythology).
2) Loki time traveled to the past where he meet Angrboda and lived in the past enough to have enough age to give birth to the 3 monsters.

I'm thinking there is really a time paradox in GoW: Ragnarok.

BTW Odin still have to adopt Loki before the events of the Ragnarok really happens.

 

[Danjin44]

For me he was, people always seeing him as some angry dude but in the first game he wasn't even looking for revenge. He was doing Athena's task because she promised him to get rid of his nightmare and his final task was to kill Areas because he was going out of control and destroying Athena's city.

 

[bender]

For me he was, people always seeing him as some angry dude but in the first game he wasn't even looking for revenge. He was doing Athena's task because she promised him to get rid of his nightmare and his final task was to kill Areas because he was going out of control and destroying Athena's city.

I'll still never forgive davidjaffe for this:

 

[Kimahri]

Probably not the same time line.

In GoW 2018 Fenrir, Jörmungandr and Hel are ported as adults... while Fenrir and Hel are only talked and not showed... Jörmungandr is not just showed as he choose to help Loki without any explainable reason.
More at the end of GoW 2018 it is showed paints of Angrboda taking care of a child Jörmungandr.

The time line of GoW 2018 events are really after Loki and Angrboda relationship that give birth to 3 monsters.
So how Loki can be the father of the monsters that born way before the events of GoW 2018?

I can think in two situations:
1) Loki is very old and just shapeshifted in a kid and the Angrboda showed in GoW: Ragnarok are just his flashbacks... but that doesn't explain how Fárbauti (Kratos) is his father in the actual time line (unless Kratos only adopted him but that goes against the Mythology).
2) Loki time traveled to the past where he meet Angrboda and lived in the past enough to have enough age to give birth to the 3 monsters.

I'm thinking there is really a time paradox in GoW: Ragnarok.

BTW Odin still have to adopt Loki before the events of the Ragnarok really happens.

But isn't it just one continuous shot? If they can add time paradoxes into all of this while doing that I'll be impressed. But yeah, I agree,it would make sense.

Technically, all the gods are old. They're gods. Could be any amount of years, but you'd kinda expect a mother of three to at least look like she's lived a little, heh. I don't remember too many details from the first, so I might be forgetting things.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I didnt play Ghost of Tsushima. Was it all Asians or Japanese chraacters? Were there Whites, Latinos or Black people in it? I highly doubt that ancient Japan was 100% Japanese people.

Just Japanese and Mongols.

 

[imissweed]

In the next Black Panther, they should replace a major black female character with a white male ginger one, it will never happen, because it's only OK if it goes one way...but I'd love to see it for all of the hypocrites to out themselves!

Indeed this is a one way street of hypocrisy!!

 

[Black_Stride]

Probably not the same time line.

In GoW 2018 Fenrir, Jörmungandr and Hel are ported as adults... while Fenrir and Hel are only talked and not showed... Jörmungandr is not just showed as he choose to help Loki without any explainable reason.
More at the end of GoW 2018 it is showed paints of Angrboda taking care of a child Jörmungandr.

The time line of GoW 2018 events are really after Loki and Angrboda relationship that give birth to 3 monsters.
So how Loki can be the father of the monsters that born way before the events of GoW 2018?

I can think in two situations:
1) Loki is very old and just shapeshifted in a kid and the Angrboda showed in GoW: Ragnarok are just his flashbacks... but that doesn't explain how Fárbauti (Kratos) is his father in the actual time line (unless Kratos only adopted him but that goes against the Mythology).
2) Loki time traveled to the past where he meet Angrboda and lived in the past enough to have enough age to give birth to the 3 monsters.

I'm thinking there is really a time paradox in GoW: Ragnarok.

BTW Odin still have to adopt Loki before the events of the Ragnarok really happens.

Probably a good thing youre not a writer.
This is 50 shades of twilight levels of fan fiction.

How do you single shot a flashback/flashforward?
While also telling us the story in the current timeline?

 

[Danjin44]

I'll still never forgive davidjaffe for this:

 

[Slicker than your average]

Im sure everyone wanted to cancel Thor for having a black guy in Norse mythology too, right?

Maybe your memory is fuzzy but the same types posts here crying about the girl in this game, are similar to Idris's casting.

 

[Barakov]

Now that I think about it what if Sony's Santa Monica's "very own spin on Norse Mythology" is a Jotun? Would make a lot of sense actually. Also makes a lot of the "if you don't this character because they shoehorned her in there" rhetoric look incredibly fucking stupid. Devs did it because it made some amount of narrative sense and it was an easy way to earn brownie points with a certain crowd on twitter.

 

[YCoCg]

This is a character who can transform into animals and monsters, the character who fucks Loki to get pregnant, etc. Sorry for the spoilers.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

I'll still never forgive davidjaffe for this:

Got the trophy for this on my first try. "Git gud"

 

[Umbasaborne]

You guys don’t do a great job of hiding your thinly veiled racism. Why does it matter that this character is black? Jesus christ this reminds me of those snow flakes who cried about women being featured in battlefield v.

 

[bender]

Got the trophy for this on my first try. "Git gud"

PS2 games didn't have trophies. Now go pull on your mom's apron and ask her for some candy.

 

[LaughingStock]

Maybe your memory is fuzzy but the same types posts here crying about the girl in this game, are similar to Idris's casting.

Don't forget about Tessa Thompson's valkyrie.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

PS2 games didn't have trophies. Now go pull on your mom's apron and ask her for some candy.

Remaster. I should of said, my petulant friend ;-)

 

[Killer8]

Normally I would care about this sort of shit, but i've realised my annoyance is mainly directed at developers who try to justify creative decisions like this as realistic in some way. You know, the kind of creator who comes out and says: "well acksualllly, racists, she could have been x, y, z!" and then goes on to present it as a serious viewpoint. Like that EA executive who thought that cricket bat wielding one-legged women really could have fought on the front lines of WW2, and that you're just a bigot if you don't also agree.

Who really knows how exactly the writer of the Edda pictured the character. I'd bet that there is a near 100% chance they'd be white, given the racial background in Scandinavia at the time. But, at least this time, the developers are being honest by saying that the game is not intended to be a completely accurate representation of the mythology. Maybe I am just weary of all this shit, but it's nice to get no spin for a change, just "we did it because we wanted to", like the casting of Idris Elba as Heimdall in the Thor films.

 

[Danjin44]

Got the trophy for this on my first try. "Git gud"

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Lol, it was so long ago. Pretty sure I did though. Through sheer luck of course. The blades are a bit random

 

[SF Kosmo]

The tunnel vision of American developers is remarkable, it's like the whole world is America and that basically means adding black people wherever you can. It's funny because if it were some Senegalese, Cambodian or Inuit setting they would feel it's diverse enough (even if actually homogeneous) with an all cast of Senegalese, Cambodian or Inuit people, but alas, not here. Then if you point out this is some immersion breaking nonsense they feel the need to break the news to you that it's just fantasy, that dragons and giant snakes are not real and that the Eddas don't explicitly mention the characters to be white, and of course you must be racist too because you don't like black people. Yes as a creative you can do whatever, but people can laugh at you too.

Jotun in this series have been portrayed as anywhere between 5 and 400 feet tall and one of them is a giant snake, but the idea that they have different skin colors is where you have an "accuracy" issue?

You all realize this game is supposed to be set BEFORE the age of Norsemen, and concerns fictional races of gods and monaters, right? Literally not one human being appears in GoW 2018.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You all realize this game is supposed to be set BEFORE the age of Norsemen, and concerns fictional races of gods and monaters, right? Literally not one human being appears in GoW 2018.

Not true. You kill some at the beginning

 

[Danjin44]

Lol, it was so long ago. Pretty sure I did though. Through sheer luck of course. The blades are a bit random

For sake of my mental health.....

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Projecting pot calling kettle...

From the dude who had a 5 hour livestream calling himself a racist as he self flagellated to the internet cult of personality.

I was wondering if the hasbeen potato would show up in this thread. Funny how he talks about racists, etc....when he apologized for being white

 

[Dr. Suchong]

For sake of my mental health.....

If it makes you feel any better, for some reason I can never max out all of the weapons and abilities by the end of the game. No idea why. I think it's because I don't use the QTE sequences to kill enemies, and doesn't that usually yield more red orbs? I can't remember now. Age is a fickle bitch

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

<snip> Non-Americans are frikkin' tired of all this race bullcrap that amounts to absolutely f*ck all, except more division, unnecessary labels and stereotyped thinking. </ snip>

Many Americans are tired of it, too, trust me.

 

[NEbeast]

Who tf cares if there is a black person in the game, shouldn't you care if the games good?

 

[A.Romero]

I didn't even notice. I guess that's what means to be colorblind. I mean, Jesus is depicted as being white most of the time... Who cares?

 

[ethomaz]

Probably a good thing youre not a writer.
This is 50 shades of twilight levels of fan fiction.

How do you single shot a flashback/flashforward?
While also telling us the story in the current timeline?

Current timeline is the game timeline.

GoW 2018 timeline is the current.
But that current timeline is way post Loki and Angrboda give birth to Fenrir, Jörmungandr and Hel.
But GoW 2018 shows Loki as child with his father Fárbauti (Kratos).

These are facts.

So or the trailer Angrboda are from Loki flashbacks or there is some time travel in GoW: Ragnarok.
Well there is another option... Fárbauti and Loki showed in GoW 2018 are reincanations lol

 

[SF Kosmo]

Not true. You kill some at the beginning

In the PS4 game? I know you do in the PS2 games...

 

[BadBurger]

I don't care, it's all fantasy. For all we know this girl giant (?) could have come from Africa in their story.

I love these games so much I wouldn't give a shit if Delsin Rowe showed up, modern Seattle grunge attire and everything, just chillin' and adventuring with Kratos and Loki.

 

[Raonak]

Good on them. Who gives a fuck about dumb people getting outraged.

 

[carlosrox]

It’s literally “I don’t like black people in this game

Sounds like an Era post.

 

[Rest]

Why not make next GOW game set in Africa with Kratos fighting "spirits" or some shit or just Egypt where it would still make sense for Egyptian gods to be black. It's just plain stupid in Norse mythology.

Why? Gods are made up. They're entirely fictional, what does it matter what they look like?
And let's say they were real. Why would a pantheon look like the people who worshipped them? If gods look like humans, why would there be a restriction on which humans they look like? Do we assume they have DNA and reproduce genetically like we do, passing on genes to their children? If they have DNA, why are they gods and not humans? Gods could look like anyone, assuming they're restricted to even looking like people.

 

[Rest]

It’s literally “I don’t like black people in this game I don’t know the story of yet” and it’s fucking pathetic.

Yeah, I've noticed that GAF lately allows people to say

"I hate minorities in video games"

as if that's somehow okay. I get that the userbase here has changed, but allowing people to spout off about how bad it is that black and brown people are in videogames, movies or TV shows really isn't a good thing for the forum.

 

[bender]

Remaster. I should of said, my petulant friend ;-)

Once was enough. Petulant?

Respect your elders. Now go finish your homework.

 

[HotPocket69]

In the PS4 game? I know you do in the PS2 games...

Yes, you come across “cannibals” pretty early on, one of them ends up as Atreus’s first kill and it’s a scene.

 

[White-fire]

Everything is their own spin on Norse mythology. They can do whatever they want, and they certainly haven’t done any harm to the culture they are taking it from. People need to stop getting so up in arms about this stuff.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Yes, you come across “cannibals” pretty early on, one of them ends up as Atreus’s first kill and it’s a scene.

Oh that's right, I remember now. Although what I said about it being before the age of Norsemen is still true.