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Xbox Wants To Provide A 'Steady Flow Of Great Games' Moving Forward

Ozriel

M$FT
Here's the thing tool wise Most of the first half of last gen was Sony getting their developers off Power-PC architecture and on to x86. SO there was going to be a long lull of studios moving over their tools to x86, which is why there was such a long wait from end of PS3 era to PS4 in terms of releases.

Now that they have their engines built, tools built and better workflows because of the low level API being ready out the gate on PS5 toolsets which are basically super enhanced PS4 toolsets, games are coming out at a consistent clip. Insomniac has by far the most efficient work flow. They literally have 2 studios and worked on Spiderman remastered, Miles morales, and Ratchet & clank:RA. And already are on track to release Spiderman 2 next year, and possibly Wolverine in 2024, on top of making what I've heard as a X-men game with co-op/Mulitplayer.

Guerilla has multiple teams, is working on multiple projects and just released one of the largest most dense games on PS5 last month. ANd it would have been able to release last year if not for covid. So 4 years since Zero dawn.

Sony has their studios setup to release games every 3-4 years instead of 5-6 like it was for some. ANd with studios now being 2 team based, and some of them 3. It's hard to knock how many games they have pumped out in the past 2 years.


The bulk of the games you’ve quoted are sequels, which are often easier and faster to make.

I don’t think there’s any thematic difference. Every one of the big three has studios with lightning Fast turnaround times…and those that take time to release stuff.


Another major issue for XBOX Studios is the perception of quality. Ninty and PS generally push out polished products, which even at their lowest ebb will still net a 75 MC, most will be mid-80s to mid-90s. Projects like Crackdown 3, Sea of Thieves, MCC and Bleeding Edge being barebones, buggy or simply unfinished have gone some way to damaging the brand, I think. They might only wind up as GP fodder, but building a quantity over quality reputation for the service probably isn't in their best interest. Hype is good - look at Elden Ring - but it'll be harder to manufacture that if they keep pushing to stuff that comes with the kind of caveats that deflate the hype.


Xbox just had a stellar year with respect to game critical reception, winning publisher of the year awards and amassing over 100 GOTY awards combined.
And you’re scraping the barrel to bring out reviews from 2017, MCC debacle from 2014 and Crackdown 3 just to paint the picture of ‘damage’ to the brand.

This isn’t a good faith argument. At all
 
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BbMajor7th

Member
Hilarious when they just won publisher of the year with the highest Metacritic ever🤣
Not really: what you're talking about is a measure of critical reception for publishing over one year, what I'm talking about it a more general perception among audiences measured over a longer time. Like it or not, XGS has supported a lot of middling titles over the last few years and between The Gunk which came out in December and Crossfire X which came out in February, there's little sign this is set to change. It doesn't mean that they don't put out great games, it just that there's no guarantee that something published by them will be good - there's no 'seal of quality' reputation you get with other publishers.

Xbox just had a stellar year with respect to game critical reception, winning publisher of the year awards and amassing over 100 GOTY awards combined.
And you’re scraping the barrel to bring out reviews from 2017, MCC debacle from 2014 and Crackdown 3 just to paint the picture of ‘damage’ to the brand.

This isn’t a good faith argument. At all

In the last three months they published two games that received a 67 and 40 on Metacritic respectively, there's nothing bad faith about it.

Highest rated publisher of 2021, that one? The one that set a record on metacritic?

I think they'll be fine.


Y'all clinging to that one award pretty hard, but one swallow does not a summer make.
 
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Riky

$MSFT
Not really: what you're talking about is a measure of critical reception for publishing over one year, what I'm talking about it a more general perception among audiences measured over a longer time. Like it or not, XGS has supported a lot of middling titles over the last few years and between The Gunk which came out in December and Crossfire X which came out in February, there's little sign this is set to change. It doesn't mean that they don't put out great games, it just that there's no guarantee that something published by them will be good - there's no 'seal of quality' reputation you get with other publishers.



In the last three months they published two games that received a 67 and 40 on Metacritic respectively, there's nothing bad faith about it.

They didn't publish those games, as explained earlier in the thread.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
They didn't publish those games, as explained earlier in the thread.
They're listed as the publisher on plenty of sites - maybe there's a nuance to it I'm missing, but given my comments are about perception, it doesn't really impact what I'm saying.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
So what your saying is buying a publisher like Activision absolves them from having to actually manage studios internally well to produce games? Because outside of already established studios within Bethesda/Zenimax, studios like Ninja Theory, Double fine who manage themselves for the most part Microsoft seems to have an issue with the very studios they themselves cultivated.

Zero issues with Playground. Zero issues with Mojang. Zero issues with Turn 10. Zero issues with the Coalition. All studios cultivated by MS

What are you on about?

343i’s had delays getting content for Halo Infinite off the ground, but the true test for long term support will come later in the year when they’ve been able to set up a steady cadence of releases.

We are not worried about Todd Howards teams, or Hellbalde team, or Tim Shaefer's team at Double fine. We are not worried about Infinity ward, Toys4Bob, Vicarious Visions. We are worried about RARE, Inititiave, Undeadlabs, 343i, coalition And those to me are your pillar studios. The only one thats actually delivered games without much issue is Coalition, Playground games.

This reads like manufactured concern.
There’s zero indication that Undead Labs has any problems. In fact, every single piece of news we get from that studio indicates they’re staffing up significantly, and the scope, budget and production quality of SOD3 is set to be much bigger and better than anything they’ve ever done before. In the meantime, they’ve been providing added content to SOD2

There’s also zero indication that the Initiative aren’t on track with their project. Contracting Crystal Dynamics for the main production of Perfect Dark was always on the cards.

Rare? Sea of Thieves has been a massive success for them, and they’ve done an excellent job of adding post launch content. Any issues with Everwild isn’t entirely unheard of in the industry…getting new IP off the ground can take quite a while. Ghost of Tsushima had six years of work put into it!

But with Coalition kind of making gears meh in terms of direction of where to take it, I kind of dont care about gears? I would care about a new IP which I hear they are making if smaller scale project.

No idea what your personal taste has to do with this conversation.

I think the aggravation from people like myself towards Microsoft is they literally are trying to buy their way to success.

Every one of the three console makers tries to invest their way to success.
Ghostwire Tokyo comes out next week. Paid exclusive deal by Sony. Ditto for Forspoken and FF7 Remake.

What a weird thing to say.

And currently its not really working. Or the results are not great.

Source?
Because we had an E3 last year where a very promising roadmap of titles were shared. And Gamepass subscriptions are rising…


I don't hear or see any of the studios MS has bought that are taking on other roles within the company. Coalition and Playground are the only ones I've heard who have helped out on other projects within other studios for Xbox like 343.

If you’ve got inside information that xbox studios have huge walls preventing collaboration, you should PM the mods or drop it here.
Making a claim that xbox studios don’t collaborate internally is just weird. Why would you think that?
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Should we talk about Godfall, Babylon's fall or destruction all stars? Do not talk like if everything other companies publish are amazing
Where did I say that? You can talk about those games if you like but we are talking about MS here. What happened?
 
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Riky

$MSFT
They're listed as the publisher on plenty of sites - maybe there's a nuance to it I'm missing, but given my comments are about perception, it doesn't really impact what I'm saying.

Just simply go to the games page on the Xbox store, it gives the publisher.
Perception has to be that winning an award with a record score is pretty good going.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Somebody else developed and published a game that didn't score as well? I don't see the issue, happens on every format as mentioned above.
Cool. Nice deflection. The op mentions nothing of the publisher. So when a Sony console exclusive comes out that wasn't published by sony it doesn't count. Good to know the rules. Thanks.
 

Riky

$MSFT
Cool. Nice deflection. The op mentions nothing of the publisher. So when a Sony console exclusive comes out that wasn't published by sony it doesn't count. Good to know the rules. Thanks.
There are no rules, a stream of content will include third party games and non exclusive games, it's that simple.
 

Calverz

Member
This is after they just got publisher of the year with the highest average ever.
The meltdowns will be immense starting later this year as the avalanche starts to hit home.
I know I can’t wait to see it. Bans left right and centre. Ignored threads.
Drama Popcorn GIF
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Just simply go to the games page on the Xbox store, it gives the publisher.
Perception has to be that winning an award with a record score is pretty good going.
Tends not be how it works sadly. Just look at Halo: Infinite: people we're half-expecting to be a disaster after early reveals and it still launched without some features. It's not the kind of expectation you get around first party games from other big publishers - again because of perception. No one's wondering if Nintendo will nail it with Breath of the Wild 2, no one's wondering if they are really listening to the community this time and if they're gonna return to the Zelda form of yesteryear. There's a still a sense that MS have to convince their fans - like their fans don't quite trust them.
 
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Page 7 because Phil said he wants to try and get a steady flow of games, but they're not fully there yet. The most utterly uncontroversial, obvious claim ever.

With the amount of effort some of you guys put into downplaying Xbox, you could mow a few yards and get a Series S. Then you'd never have to worry about this kind of thing.
 

Sega Orphan

Banned
So what your saying is buying a publisher like Activision absolves them from having to actually manage studios internally well to produce games? Because outside of already established studios within Bethesda/Zenimax, studios like Ninja Theory, Double fine who manage themselves for the most part Microsoft seems to have an issue with the very studios they themselves cultivated.

We are not worried about Todd Howards teams, or Hellbalde team, or Tim Shaefer's team at Double fine. We are not worried about Infinity ward, Toys4Bob, Vicarious Visions. We are worried about RARE, Inititiave, Undeadlabs, 343i, coalition And those to me are your pillar studios. The only one thats actually delivered games without much issue is Coalition, Playground games.

But with Coalition kind of making gears meh in terms of direction of where to take it, I kind of dont care about gears? I would care about a new IP which I hear they are making if smaller scale project.

I think the aggravation from people like myself towards Microsoft is they literally are trying to buy their way to success. And currently its not really working. Or the results are not great. Buying already established developers/publisher takes no fucking effort. Sony is no different in buying Bungie, difference is Sony wants to use them for their own internal games to help with tools for multiplayer.

I don't hear or see any of the studios MS has bought that are taking on other roles within the company. Coalition and Playground are the only ones I've heard who have helped out on other projects within other studios for Xbox like 343.

Netflix has a similar issue.
Your view just doesn't mix with reality.
343i just released Halo Infinate which got excellent reviews and totally brought it back to the series it was. It has a meta of 87, which beat GOT and is one point less than HFW and Ratchet And Clank. It was an excellent game.
Turn 10 was a MS start up studio and has rivalled the best PD has put out.
Rare's last release is a stunning success. No if no buts, Sea of Thieves was a massive game for Rare.
The Coalition haven't released a dud game yet. If you don't like Gears that's not a reflection of the Coalition at all. There are plenty who do like it. I don't like JRPGs. I couldn't give one shit about playing Elden Ring. I couldn't think of anything more boring. But that's not on From at all. Same goes for your opinion of Gears.
Undead Labs were a small indie company who MS liked alot. Since the buy up they have grown in size, have plenty of money on hand and by all accounts SOD3 will be on a different level. So putting shit on them is silly.
And to top it off, Microsoft just came off a year where Xbox Game Studios got the award for highest rated Publisher for last year on Metacritic.
Just let it go dude. The meme is dead. Yes, you can say that it's Microsoft's money that got them out of the hole they dug with the Xbox One, that's true, but they did.
Money talks and bullshit walks.
Everyone was saying that if Microsoft opens the cheque book shit will get real, but the plebs liked to say that no, that's Windows money, and MS won't spend the profits from other divisions on their Xbox division. It will have to sink or swim on their own profits.
Well, some people learnt some lessons about how corporations invest their money.
I don't have any sympathy for Sony in regards to MS using their bigger bank that Sony can't match, because as a Sega fan I remember Sony doing the exact same to Sega when Sega didn't have the finances to fight back against them.
 
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Avalanche of what? Starfield? What else is coming out this year? I legitimately don't pay close attention to release dates but what else does MS have this year?
It looks like a slow year for Xbox, so I don't see an avalanche yet for 2022. But I'm sure people are hoping E3 has a lot, so who knows.

I'm looking forward to:
  • Starfield
  • Trek to Yomi
  • Midnight Fight Club
  • Tunic
  • Forza DLC expansions
  • Replaced (supposedly this year)
  • Scorn
  • Atomic Heart
  • Shredders
  • Somerville
  • That weird narrative game from ex-Quantic Dream people, forgot the name
Not looking forward to, but I'll try it:
  • Redfall
What I think a lot of Xbox fans stumble with is that they don't just openly admit that a ton of the great Gamepass stuff isn't AAA. I was hyped when I saw all the awesome AA games, and indie games. The first party output is still in its infancy. It's fine to criticize that, but it's clear that it will be a substantial output of games once all those studios get going ... one of these days. You can call them slow, but it's foolish to pretend the games are not coming. And that will be on top of the indie and AA stuff, and the occasional big third party game like Avengers, Guardians, Back 4 Blood, Yakuza, etc. And this is a slower year than last year, but there's still some stuff I'm looking forward to.
 
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Arcadialane

Member
It's already been said but yes, we've heard this for like a decade now. They tried to compensate for it with the whole backwards compatibility push, and now with the deep pockets big spending look how many 1st parties we have.
Yet here we are still with the

''Wait till next E3©™®''.
''Keep exceptions low™©®''.
''Soon™'©®'.



They are doing great with the gamepass though so props for that.
 
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kingfey

Banned
They're listed as the publisher on plenty of sites - maybe there's a nuance to it I'm missing, but given my comments are about perception, it doesn't really impact what I'm saying.
Publisher means, you have some control of the game. MS had 0 input on those games, aside of marketing. Just like how SIE has no input with Babylon fall, and ff7R. Or else, SIE would have won the publisher of the year with deathloop, kena added to their list.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Your view just doesn't mix with reality.
343i just released Halo Infinate which got excellent reviews and totally brought it back to the series it was. It has a meta of 87, which beat GOT and is one point less than HFW and Ratchet And Clank. It was an excellent game.
Turn 10 was a MS start up studio and has rivalled the best PD has put out.
Rare's last release is a stunning success. No if no buts, Sea of Thieves was a massive game for Rare.
The Coalition haven't released a dud game yet. If you don't like Gears that's not a reflection of the Coalition at all. There are plenty who do like it. I don't like JRPGs. I couldn't give one shit about playing Elden Ring. I couldn't think of anything more boring. But that's not on From at all. Same goes for your opinion of Gears.
Undead Labs were a small indie company who MS liked alot. Since the buy up they have grown in size, have plenty of money on hand and by all accounts SOD3 will be on a different level. So putting shit on them is silly.
And to top it off, Microsoft just came off a year where Xbox Game Studios got the award for highest rated Publisher for last year on Metacritic.
Just let it go dude. The meme is dead. Yes, you can say that it's Microsoft's money that got them out of the hole they dug with the Xbox One, that's true, but they did.
Money talks and bullshit walks.
Everyone was saying that if Microsoft opens the cheque book shit will get real, but the plebs liked to say that no, that's Windows money, and MS won't spend the profits from other divisions on their Xbox division. It will have to sink or swim on their own profits.
Well, some people learnt some lessons about how corporations invest their money.
I don't have any sympathy for Sony in regards to MS using their bigger bank that Sony can't match, because as a Sega fan I remember Sony doing the exact same to Sega when Sega didn't have the finances to fight back against them.

Did you actually take time to read what you wrote?

Go look at the state Halo launched in, go look at where the game is player wise currently? Look at where the whole community is kind of leaving the game because there is no news or roadmap set in place with dates for cotnent.
Go look at Gears 4 and 5 and look at Gears 1-3 and see difference in reviews for those games and see where they are player base wise compared to previous entries. Way less, and Rod Fergeson who was the gears daddy left a long time ago.

Looking at how far and fast people dropped gears it shows they dont know what to do with that IP.
If you believe Microsoft's IP's now are stronger than they were during 360 era it is you who needs a tall glass of reality. If you think 343i has not had multiple issues within curating halo titles then you live in a bubble. If you think Microsoft managed Lionhead well then you need your head examined.

If you think they managed RARE correctly who have put out one game in the past 5 years, and before SOT it was kinect titles then you need to re-examine the play of events. Look at where Everwild is? it restarted twice as a project the lead that had been with the studio for a long time left. And that isn't even a game yet from what the developers themselves even say.


I don't disagree with your sentiments when it comes to the past with Sega. But also the fault of sega was their own with how they made Hardware in Japan and never said anything to their American/Euro branches and developers. WHich is why when they finally did talk to everyone in the company to be on board when it was the dreamcast it was too little too late. Sega killed itself without Sony's help.

Saturn was complicated, and not fully polygon 3D.

If you don't think Microsoft has an issue with managing studios, you my friend need the reality check.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Page 7 because Phil said he wants to try and get a steady flow of games, but they're not fully there yet. The most utterly uncontroversial, obvious claim ever.

With the amount of effort some of you guys put into downplaying Xbox, you could mow a few yards and get a Series S. Then you'd never have to worry about this kind of thing.

How can you explain the amount of people defending xbox output, if Phil's statement is so uncontroversial?

Is this one of those "It's ok when my dad calls me a loser" things?
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
What part is controversial?
  • We want a steady stream of games.
  • We're not completely there yet.

The "great" part, not that it's controversial Phil said it, but apparently it's controversial that people agree that Xbox isn't there yet, at least when people not named Phil say it. Which at this point is unsurprising coming from that community.
 
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The "great" part, not that it's controversial Phil said it, but apparently it's controversial that people agree that Xbox isn't there yet, at least when people not named Phil say it.
I think that everyone agrees that the vast majority of the Xbox studios haven't put out their Series S/X games yet. The Activision purchase isn't done yet. Everyone knows their release schedule is going to increase.

Where the disagreement seems to be is that some people 1) are already satisfied with Xbox right now, and know it will improve - and 2) other people want to paint a picture of MS in total shambles and act like they're horrible now, and will never be better. I think it's clear which one of those is a huge exaggeration, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
Was this gem included?
NyY7ysS.png
Did you play it? It's good.

Should I post this so I can also display to everyone that I'm incapable of figuring out who the publisher is?

 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Where the disagreement seems to be is that some people 1) are already satisfied with Xbox right now, and know it will improve - and 2) other people want to paint a picture of MS in total shambles and act like they're horrible now, and will never be better. I think it's clear which one of those is a huge exaggeration, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Is it clear? Because most of the people happy with Xbox now were happy with Xbox for the entirety of last gen.
 

kingfey

Banned
Go look at the state Halo launched in, go look at where the game is player wise currently?
Weird how you guys still hell bent on this notion.
The game has SP mode. People played it. The one that is active now, is the MP. A tiny fraction of infinite SP.
 

Three

Gold Member
The bulk of the games you’ve quoted are sequels, which are often easier and faster to make. I don’t think there’s any thematic difference.

I think MS output has been kind of poor in terms of releases even with sequels.
It doesn't need to be a new IP. Insomniac has been the most productive of the lot with new IPs/games. Looking at sequels, if Santa Monica release God Of War Ragnarok this year as planned then it's exactly 4 years between releases. God of War was 2018. GG Horizon Forbidden West again was 5 years, HZD was 2017. That's not couting VR titles like Rigs inbetween. Naughty Dog released Uncharted 4 in 2016 and TLOU2 in 2020, again 4 years not counting Lost Legacy inbetween. 6yrs isn't the norm.

Compare that to the output of 343i's sequel. What was it? 7yrs for Halo and it still felt unfinished. Rare released SoT in 2018 and floundered with Everwild which seems stuck in dev. The output has just generally been slow but hopefully it will eventually pay off. They don't need timely releases though because they get a revenue stream from gamepass subs, and mtx of previous games. As much as some hate to admit it it's the different business models in play.
 

Three

Gold Member
Quite a difference between a big release every quarter and one every month. Not interchangeable at all, IMO.

GP isn't just the first-party output though, so it all depends on what third-parties are bringing as well. If major releases are too sparse you risk losing subs for periods of time in-between releases, which is not ideal.

I don't know maybe you missed the whole wishful thinking last year where a big release every month was being talked about or my comment in this thread that the 1 AAA a month has now turned to 1 AAA per quarter yet that is still not happening even now and I doubt will ever happen seeing as people are not unsubscribing without it.

Heres part of last years discussion I was referring to with 1 big AAA per month and low and behold it's from your boy Bernd Lauert and you were in that thread too.

MS's goal should be 36 studios. Some with multiple teams.
Each AAA game with a 3 year time line = 1 AAA game a month plus all the AA and smaller stuff as a cherry on top.

1 AAA game a month would need around 50ish AAA studios. That's 20k people or so. If we apply the 10k dollars per employee rule, that's 200 million dollars a month of upkeep cost. With the way things are going, that might actually be easy to pay for MS. Netflix spends way more on their content, the last figure I heard was 1.4 billion (yes billion) per month.

Just a fun math example, I'm not actually saying it's gonna happen. Just that it's not as unrealistic as people might think.

Men in boxes has it right though this won't happen and there will actually be a market contraction.
Prediction: The market won't be able to support 1 AAA per month.



GAAS is going to cause a contraction as more and more gamers ignore new releases due to finding "their game"
That's why MS is buying "their game" and less concerned about ramping up output to 1AAA game per month/quarter.
 
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You are guys are pretty much IDIOTS at this point.
MS didn't publish this game. How dense can you guys be?
In my defense, I didn't know Metacritc can't be trusted to list the correct publishers. They were the ones listing Xbox Game Studios on The Gunk and Space Jam. I still stand by Flight Sim should only count for 2020 though. Since when do we consider a GOTY edition/console port/ added dlc as a separate new game? That's just ridiculous imo.
 

kingfey

Banned
In my defense, I didn't know Metacritc can't be trusted to list the correct publishers. They were the ones listing Xbox Game Studios on The Gunk and Space Jam. I still stand by Flight Sim should only count for 2020 though. Since when do we consider a GOTY edition/console port/ added dlc as a separate new game? That's just ridiculous imo.
Publishing means, total control of the game, through funding or assisting in development.
Sony and Xbox published alot of 3rd party games, but they aren't published by them. Just marketing or exclusive deals.

Kena, Deathloop, the gunk and the ascent. But those aren't published by MS and Sony, as they had nothing to do with game development.

Its very confusing 😕.

Psychonauts 2 and returnal are example of games being published by them.
 
I don't know maybe you missed the whole wishful thinking last year where a big release every month was being talked about or my comment in this thread that the 1 AAA a month has now turned to 1 AAA per quarter yet that is still not happening even now and I doubt will ever happen seeing as people are not unsubscribing without it.

Heres part of last years discussion I was referring to with 1 big AAA per month and low and behold it's from your boy Bernd Lauert and you were in that thread too.





Men in boxes has it right though this won't happen and there will actually be a market contraction.

That's why MS is buying "their game" and less concerned about ramping up output to 1AAA game per month/quarter.
Funny you quote me when I literally said "I'm not actually saying it's gonna happen".
 

kingfey

Banned
I think MS output has been kind of poor in terms of releases even with sequels.
It doesn't need to be a new IP. Insomniac has been the most productive of the lot with new IPs/games. Looking at sequels, if Santa Monica release God Of War Ragnarok this year as planned then it's exactly 4 years between releases. God of War was 2018. GG Horizon Forbidden West again was 5 years, HZD was 2017. That's not couting VR titles like Rigs inbetween. Naughty Dog released Uncharted 4 in 2016 and TLOU2 in 2020, again 4 years not counting Lost Legacy inbetween. 6yrs isn't the norm.

Compare that to the output of 343i's sequel. What was it? 7yrs for Halo and it still felt unfinished. Rare released SoT in 2018 and floundered with Everwild which seems stuck in dev. The output has just generally been slow but hopefully it will eventually pay off. They don't need timely releases though because they get a revenue stream from gamepass subs, and mtx of previous games. As much as some hate to admit it it's the different business models in play.
MS track of record is all due to studio funding.
During OG xbox and x360, they didn't invest in their studio's, which is why their output during xbox one is abysmal.

Game development takes alot of time. 5-7 studios can't sustain you for 8 years. Especially when 2 of your studios focuses on racing, while the other 2 focuses on shooting games.

This gen should be different, with all the studios they have.
People will be sick of their outputs.
 
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